Why does Vermont have a Republican governor?

[billbuckhead]

The state that gave us Bernie Sanders, Patrick Leahy, Jim Jeffords and Ben &Jerry's now has a Republican governor. I guess the previous Governor didn't have much leadership ability. That would be my thesis.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

1. Why does NY have a Republican governor?

Things just don't really make too much sense :(

[ulysses]

2. Why does California have a Republican governor?

Why does Georgia?

Methinks that Bill is seeing things where things aren't.

[killbotfactory]

4. Dean sabatoged those states...

He's pure evil I tells ya.

[bitchkitty]

30. Not delusion, desperation. n/t

[Capn Sunshine]

67. Why does the army have a republican General Battle Commander

Guess it's a comment on the leadership of those that went before

[NewYorkerfromMass]

90. Because Cuomo fucked up and let Pataki win

a week before the vote in '94, Cuomo said, in one of the most Custer-like statements of ignorance to a real threat: "we're going to win this in a walk". It wasn't even close.

[LosinIt]

3. yeah, you must be right

he was only the governor for about a scillion years. That must not have been from being RE-ELECTED. They turned to a repug because they found out Dean eats fluffy, little kitties.

[billbuckhead]

9. If this guy is such a progressive political genius?Why no successor?

In a state with Bernie Sanders and Jumpin Jim Jeffords. In a state that was the first to have civil unions. In a state Republicans call "The Peoples Republic of Vermont". What happened? Deaniacs, tell us your version of this story.

[Padraig18]

24. Why should we dignify your no-content flame bait with more replies?

:eyes:

[ozone_man]

45. That's jeezum Jim Jeffords,

but only Vermonters can refer to him that way. In case you didn't know, Senator Jim Jeffords was a Republican until a year ago or so, but a very liberal one at that. He bolted the Republican party when the neocons took over.

Governor Jim Douglas is also a liberal Republican in the Vermont tradition. We tend to vote on individuals, not on a person's party, that's how Rep. Sanders consistently wins 70% of the vote, yet he is an Independent, a socialist of sorts.

Vermont is historically a Republican state, but in the Calvin Coolidge sort of Republican way. That has changed, since the 60's and it has become increasingly liberal, but we still have some Republican roots.

We will be taking back the governorship probably next year with a progressive Democrat.

We love our Senators and sole Congressman Sanders and would not trade them away for anything. They all voted against the IWR and Dean supported us against the war.

Hope this brief history helps you understand Vermont better.

[reknewcomer]

47. Welcome to Vermont

Now leave. :-)

[arcos]

5. why does the US have a Republican president?

I guess the previous President didn't have much leadership ability.

why does Georgia have a Republican Senator?

I guess the previous Senator didn't have much leadership ability.

bah!

Just a flame bait...

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

6. lol

:)

[Scott Lee]

7. Why does Kerry's state have a republican governor?

[Closer]

8. Why does the US have a Republican president?

I guesss the previous president didn't have much leadership ability.

That would be my thesis.

[Green Mountain Dem]

10. because and ONLY because........

VT had a very popular Independent, Cornelius Hogan, running against the Dem candidate, Doug Racine. A straight Dem/Rep race would have produced another Dem Govenor as Racine would have won hands down.

[xray s]

13. Dare I ask...

Was Hogan a Green?

(ducking)

[reknewcomer]

22. Hogan was an Independant

And he took as many votes from R's as D's.

[KaraokeKarlton]

42. Almost, but not quite

He took just as many of the Republican votes Dean had been getting as he did Democrats from Racine. Had those Republicans not voted for Hogan I suspect they would have voted for Douglas over Racine. It still would have been close, though.

[KaraokeKarlton]

40. No, Hogan isn't a Green

He ran the Dept. of Health and Human Services in Dean's Administration. He is quite popular and well known. He's always given me the impression that he is pretty moderate.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

15. Don't confuse him with the facts

It was such a good thesis while it lasted. LOL.

[Zynx]

11. Why did Arkansas get a Republican immediately after Clinton left?

Hmmmmm?

[Bombtrack]

12. it has one of the highest tax burdens in the US

the highest even in New England I believe

[Green Mountain Dem]

16. that's just...

"poop"....prove it with sources !!

[reknewcomer]

26. Ron, may you only rent here but property tax is way too much

In 1989 I paid less than 1500 for a 100+ YO farmhouse.

Now I pay 4000+ after Dean and act 60. That is not right.

We are way overtaxed.

[Green Mountain Dem]

33. nope not a renter....

and pay my FAIR share of taxes here in Underhill (2 school taxes), almost 4K total last year, but we choose to live here and appreciate the quality of life regardless. We no longer have any children in the school system..do we pay too much in taxes...probably thanks to Act60, but again we chose this Town and this lifestyle, and this choice did not come without the inherent costs.

[reknewcomer]

38. I hear you

It is a nice life here and I guess that's why we stay.

As I said...I just hope those that really need the money are getting it and I'll feel better about handing it over.

[KaraokeKarlton]

46. You're a Vermonter alright! lol

Vermonters don't mind paying taxes but we expect them to be used properly and wisely.

[reknewcomer]

50. You knowr it

:-)

[KaraokeKarlton]

66. I'm glad there are other Vermonters here

I keep trying to tell people that it's impossible to keep any political secrets in Vermont and that if a politician is a lying pile of cow poop we give them the boot. It hasn't sunk in yet, though. :D

[KaraokeKarlton]

44. Was a new school built in your area under your school budget?

That's caused some problems for some towns. Act 60 is admittedly probably the most unpopular thing Dean did. But frankly, he had to do something. Even he said that it would take a while to sort Act 60 out and make adjustments to get it working more fairly.

They don't have it any better in NH, you know. My sister lives there and their property taxes went up more than you pay here. So you could have it worse. She's also the tax assessor in her town, and she told me it's really bad there and people are hopping mad.

[reknewcomer]

53. I should fess up

Our town just did a re-appraisal and after a few sessions with the appraisers I convinced them my roof was leaking, the cellar needed the stone replaced, the attic was not seven feet tall and other delights.

When I walked out of the town office I was back to the original tax rate. The sad fact is those that recently built were stuck with the higher rate. I'm getting too old to keep up with the flatlanders I guess.

[Green Mountain Dem]

57. That does it.....

I'm tellin........LOL Seriously I am happy for you and it sounds to me like you were justified in requesting an adjustment. I just hope that these inflated property values don't come back and bite us somewhere down the road.

[KaraokeKarlton]

68. Oh, now that's naughty! lol

n/t

[ozone_man]

56. Sounds like you might live in a gold town,

or near one. I have to agree with act 60. The ski towns like Stowe would not even exist, if land from the Green Mountains wasn't carved up into ski slopes by TPTB back in the early 60's. They've got to pay their fair share for stealing that land from the state IMO.

It was a judicial decision that all Vermonters deserved an equal education regardless of the town they lived in, and I agree. How the distribution is made is another issue, but I still tend to agree with Act 60. Maybe I'm a socialist, but those yuppie Stowe complainers really get to me.

[reknewcomer]

58. Here's the problem

Many Vermonters in Stowe live in the sticks and have all their their life so far. They do not benefit from any of the "Gold town" status and just run their farm or sugarbush as they always have.

The whole tax and school funding issue should have been based on income and not what property your family owned and now you own. The property tax has caused more Vermonters to sell family property to survive than they should have needed.

Tax on income - not family heritage.

[KaraokeKarlton]

69. That's definitely been the downside of it

The concept of fair education is right on. It's the division that needs to be sorted out. That's going to be trial and error and take some working. We'll get there, though. And you're right that individuals like you who have resorts come in and change your area isn't something you should end up being penalized for. Have you and your neighbors gone to Montpelier to talk about this at all, or at least been in touch with your Reps?

[reknewcomer]

72. Yes, I have been very vocal

If you ever listen to VPR at 7 PM you'll often hear me bending Bob Kinsel's ear. Bernie knows me by name and we had a nice chat at the last Dylan concert at the Essex Fairgrounds. I'm sure we'll meet soon enough now that I have more free time.

[KaraokeKarlton]

75. I listen to VPR sometimes when I'm driving

But not enough to recognize Kinsel's name. I'll have to try to tune in sometime. I'm sure I'd be able to pick you out if I heard you. Are you working for any of the campaigns? I'm down in the WRJct area.

[zeemike]

14. Why is the military full of right-wingers?

Wasn’t the leadership example of General Clark effective?

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[reknewcomer]

20. Du is not a "chat room"

An honest liberal will try to pull those outside of center back to the middle in hopes of a civil union of ideas and not use all caps to do it.

[Cooley Hurd]

49. Welcome to DU, patricia!

Thing are a bit nutty around here now, but come post-convention I have no doubt that DU will be back to its old fuzzy-duckling self. :hi:

[zeemike]

51. Welcome Patricia

But he is right this is not a chat room and all caps is the same (virtually) as shouting.
But you will learn as we all have had to.

[carpetbagger]

18. New England is historically republican.

There's always a base of "grew up republican" people who create a critical mass to pull the candidates to the center, much like democrats in the south. Because of this, and because of the near-total lack of fundamentalist, conservative Christians, at least as an political force, the republicans nominate folks who are eminently acceptable to the mainstream.

[reknewcomer]

19. Mostly because of Dean

You would have to live here for the last thirty years to understand and
grow up with native Vermonters. Most far left voters are flatlanders that moved here in the late 70's and early 80's.

Dean lucked into the statehouse when Snelling died. Dean was elected as Lt Gove because most native Vermonters liked to keep a balance between Democrats and Republicans. There are no rabid Republicans here and most native voters resent blanket labels when it comes to party voting.

The senitiment that infects DU against anyone but far left candidates would never go over well here in Vermont. I've seen 45 years+ of politics here and I can assure you anything is possible. Mostly we like to trust our elected and don't really care what party they hail to.

The more than doubling of local, state and usage taxes here in the last 12 years is coming home to roost. It's a fragile balance but we believe in honesty above politics...

[Green Mountain Dem]

23. I don't disagree with your...

assessment regarding Dean's initial luck..but that said...how do you explain his continued re-elections???

[Zynx]

25. Re-elections all by over 10% margins.

Even in 2000, he beat Dwyer under hard circumstances by 12%.

[reknewcomer]

27. Apathy

And lack of a valid candidate against him. He also was very middle road and sneaked in most of the tax increases.

[Green Mountain Dem]

43. Apathy......Apathy ???

did you not see all the "Take Back Vermont" signs on lawns throughout the state?? I don't think that was apathy...it was mean spirited and downright dirty ...and it FAILED!

[reknewcomer]

61. I saw them (and still do)

In fact, everytime I see the latest "Take back America" by some current candidates I become ill all over again.

[KaraokeKarlton]

70. lol...I think Dean coined that on purpose

Just to tick off the Take Back Vermonters. :) If you read the text of his announcement speech in Burlington and pay close attention you'll see where he does the same thing to PNAC. It's clever as hell!

Other Vermonters here remember how awful that Take Back Vermont campaign was. I got to the point that I wouldn't even turn on the TV or pick up a paper. The only "entertaining" part of the whole ordeal was those stupid sign wars. That got pretty creative, I have to admit.

So, do any of my fellow Vermonters think Bush can run a dirtier more hate fueled campaign against Dean than we all saw in 2000? I sure don't.

[Padraig18]

21. Why do NY, OH, FL, et al have republican governors.

Is it the Democrats' fault? Lame attempt, bill... :eyes:

[arewethereyet]

28. Dean is centrist

the public leans a little left then a little right. Not unlike Virginia where I live.

[billbuckhead]

32. So centrist is Vermont that it has the only "socialist" congressman

Check out the maple leaf on the official state website. Vermont's like a Canadian colony or something. Karl Rove is going to have field day putting Vermont on trial. Maybe he'll even come out the closet in celebration.

<http://www.vermont.gov/governor/>

[arewethereyet]

39. is NYC representative of the entire state ?

I'm talking statewide which a governor is.

[KaraokeKarlton]

48. You probably haven't even been here

and you're totally wrong about the people here. We don't really have all that many ultra liberals. It's just that the ones we have are VERY loud.

[HuckleB]

65. You've never been there, have you.

It's filled with some serious conservatives. It's a very divided state. But that doesn't serve your purpose to bash Dean, does it?

By the way, your old "conservative" buddies are hanging out at landv.net ---

[bitchkitty]

29. No, actually - here's what happened:

After Dean left the Governor's mansion, they found the remains of Clark/Kerry supporters in the basement. Dean is a cannibal. He's actually related to Jeffrey Dahlmer. Oh, and he's a rapist too. And a Satanist. Plus he makes my dog crap on the floor all the time.

[Padraig18]

31. Don't forget the kittens!

He eats kittens, you know? :P

[bitchkitty]

35. yes, but only for an appetizer,

never the main course. Kittens cannot satisfy his fiendish cravings.

[Padraig18]

37. This is true.

On holidays, he also roasts orphans.

[reknewcomer]

34. Dean is not a bad person

Sure he raised taxes on us middle class but we were able to deal with it. I would prefer to have the extra 2-4k a year for spending or saving but most of us were able to deal with it and only hope those that really needed it got it. No hard feelings.

[KaraokeKarlton]

52. You're forgetting about the role of the state legislature aren't you?

n/t

[reknewcomer]

63. Well...

The legislature is in mostly Republican hands and the Senate is Dem and that or reverse is just how most of us like it. It helps keep the free flow of cash from our pockets to others in check. Let's keep it that way...

[KaraokeKarlton]

71. hahaha, I don't know of many folks here who don't "mix it up"

when casting their votes to prevent one party from having too much power. :D

[KaraokeKarlton]

36. I am quite certain I've addressed this very same issue with you before

Here we go again. Jim Douglas is a moderate Republican and essentially the same as Jim Jeffords. He was the Treasurer prior to being elected. Doug Racine was Dean's Lt. Governor and he asked Dean not to campaign for him because he didn't want anyone to be able to accuse him of riding on Dean's coattails and not being his own man. Two different Independents also ran and took votes that normally would have gone to Racine. The Vermont Progressive Party has been trying (with some success) to hurt the Democratic Party in Vermont. Ironically, most of the attacks about Dean coming from Vermont is coming from the very party that has been hurting Vermont Democrats for a number of years now. Racine also didn't have the same broad appeal that Dean has. Dean routinely took at least 20% of the Republican votes away from the Republican candidate. The governor before Dean was also a Republican. In fact, prior to Dean, Republicans had a significant stronghold on Vermont state politics. If you spend a little bit of time researching Vermont politics over the last 100 or so years you will find that what I say is true.

Racine lost because he wasn't Howard Dean and didn't have a wide enough appeal to lure in the moderate Republicans and moderate swing voters.

I find it disturbing that your post implies that it is in some way Dean's fault that Racine lost. I really wish DU members would not post things that seemingly intentionally mislead other DUers. It's just not right. :shrug:

[Padraig18]

41. Threads like this one never let the facts...

... get in the way of a good piece of content-free flame bait.

[billbuckhead]

55. Does Dean take responsibility for anything? Why was there a powerful 3rd..

party? Dean had no responsibilty for the party getting beat from the left. Isn't that what many people suggest in the endless Green vs Mainstream Dem arguments. Sounds like blaming Nadir. Bottomline is that the Democratic party in Vermont was beaten.

[Green Mountain Dem]

59. And your point is ??

ya see...we here in Vermont are pretty tolerant folk, and accept all points of view...you wanna run for office and are not part of the mainstream....NO PROB..sell yourself and you just might get elected.
Remember, Bless his heart...Fred Tuttle?? So Greens, Reds, Oranges, Purples, Blacks, Blues, Dems, Repubs, Independents...COME ON DOWN !!

[KaraokeKarlton]

73. Here's a newsflsah for you buckhead

There isn't a whole heck of a lot of difference between Vermont's Democrats and Republicans, at least not enough to pitch a fit over. And Vermonters are too independent to listen to anyone else's advise about who we're going to vote for. Dean could have screamed from the rooftops to vote for Racine and the results would have been the same. That doesn't mean Vermonters don't like and respect Dean, because we do. We just like to vote how we choose to.

[ozone_man]

60. Yes, Racine was not strong enough.

I wouldn't quite group Douglas in with Jeffords, but I'm OK with him. He's pretty moderate like you say.

Well, of course there was the Kunin era and Hoff, but we do have Republican roots that sprout up every so often.

[KaraokeKarlton]

74. I like Douglas so far

That might be because he's playing it really safe and pretty much running things like Dean did with the exception of some minor things.

[Ksec]

54. because we let the extremists hijack our party and become our spokespeople

[mandyky]

62. Dean took over for a GOP governor

In Vermont, Govs. and Lt. Govs. get elected separately, and Dean resigned to run for President I thhink is what happened.

[HuckleB]

64. Yeah, sure, you betcha.

Not much of a thesis, and nothing to back it up. Vermont is a very divided state politically, much as the U.S. is, yet Dean was able to get re-elected repeatedly. That shows serious leadership, my friend. If you got legitimate criticisms of Dean, bring them on, but this is just bizarroland stuff that you're presenting now.

[billbuckhead]

76. Dean seems to have left the Vermont Dems get beat from their left.

Isn't this what many accuse the DLC of?

[HuckleB]

77. Perhaps you can expound upon this theory.

It doesn't make sense from what I know of the state.

[billbuckhead]

78. Check out the Vermont Progressive party's website

If that's not a leftest platform than I'll admit I'm lost.

<http://www.progressiveparty.org/about/>

[HuckleB]

79. A website, what do you know?

Funny thing, I know a lot of progressive Vermonters, and none of 'em have ever mentioned these guys. And we talk Vermont politics a lot.

[KaraokeKarlton]

83. Oh brother, here we go again

First of all, the Vermont Progressive Party is to Vermont elections what Ralph Nader was to the 2000 General Election. Neither have anywhere near enough support to actually win the top race (president and governor) so they stroke their egos by playing the spoiler. In Vermont this isn't a horrible tragedy because our Republicans are very decent for the most part. The same can't be said about the Presidential election because in that case all a spolier does is hand over the control to someone even THEY can't stand. Talk about masochistic!

No Vermont Progressive has ever won the Governorship or even the Lt. Governor's spot. How you can claim a spoiler "beat" the Democrats in Vermont is beyond me unless your goal is to elect Republicans, that is.

:shrug:

[ozone_man]

84. Next year, we might see a progressive run as a Democrat

for governor. Mayor Peter Clavelle. If he runs and wins the nomination, he might be our next governor.

We do have some progressives in the legislature.

[KaraokeKarlton]

87. I get really angry at the Vermont Progressive Party

Vermont politicians (even the Republicans) are all essentially on the same page on the issues that matter the most. There's a really good balance of level-headedness and fairness for the majority in the mentality of our politicians. I think that in Vermont (not all states, but here) a more liberal third party has the potential to have a negative impact on the state Republicans over time. The last thing this state needs is for our moderate Republicans to shift to the right in response to a third party trying to move things further left. We're right where we need to be and a lot more progressive than most other states, already. I'm not that familiar with Clavelle other than he endorsed Dean and isn't one of the more radical Vermont Progressives. If he runs as a Democrat and I like what he has to offer he might get my vote. I like Douglas so far, too. How I vote will depend on what Douglas does from now until then. If he continues to follow in Dean's footsteps I'll likely reward him with my vote, but we'll see how the picture looks at voting time.

[Green Mountain Dem]

89. I heard that Peter would...

be running as a Dem if he decides to jump into the race. I hope he does as I think he would be a good govenor.

[KaraokeKarlton]

91. Even if he does run

I still wouldn't be surprised if the VT Progressive Party still ran someone just to "prove" people will vote for their party's candidate. Of all states, Vermont needs a liberal third party about as much as we need to import maple syrup.

[Green Mountain Dem]

92. I think the Progressives have....

lost some of their luster, especially in their stronghold of Burlington, and in fact Peter Clavelle filed as a Dem and a Progressive in the last mayoral election. What is their impact in the WRJ area and have you seen any change in attitudes there?

[_Jumper_]

80. He was Republican-lite

So they decided to vote for the real thing.;)

[HuckleB]

81. Ah, this from a DLCer.

Berry interesting.

[DACT]

82. Why does any state have a Republican governor?

Fucking conservative fucks.

[AWD]

85. Why was this thread started???

Hmmmm....lemme think. Rhymes with the author's name......hmmmmm, what rhymes with billbuckhead?.......wait, now I know why this thread was started!

[CMT]

86. why does Massachusetts have a Republican governor?

when every congressman is a democrat and most state offices, the legislature, and two high profile Democratic senators including one who is running for president?

[Killarney]

88. I think it was gender politics

Unfortunately, I do think that gender still plays into politics. When Jane Swift took over as governor of Massachusetts, news stories focused on her pregnancy, her babies, her BREASTFEEDING. She was attacked again and again. She did make some dumb moves, too, and most people in the state ended up against her.

Then, the election came and Romney (the Republican who won) ran against a female Democratic candidate. Instead of looking at her as a distinctly different human being, many people compared her to Jane Swift. I truly think that some people voted for Romney basically because they didn't want another woman in office.

It's sad. But I know of at least one person who actually said to my face that he didn't want another woman governor and that's why he voted for Romney.