What are all these anti Dean threads about? Especially from the greens.

[Robin Hood]

When Dean arrived on the scene it was the greens here who propped him up to where he is now. Since his Gore endorsement and appearance of having a lock on the nomination, it seems like there is a large number of threads started by greens denouncing Dean. What is going on here?

I was very unsure about Dean until recently but have come to accept him as the lead contender to carry the fight to the White House. Would i have wanted a different candidate? Yes, Me, i would be a great president. Is there a candidate out there that has inspired people like Dean has? No.

That's why as this race tightens we need to get behind our guy/gal and support him/her with all that we've got. That's what the repubs are doing and they own every aspect of Government. Perhaps ripping off a play from their game book might not be a bad idea.

I'm not asking you to shut up about Dean or anyone else. But I also don't think that all this infighting helps further our goals. And we all know what the goal is, don't we?

Edited for bad language. I'm a baaaaad boy.

[ErasureAcer]

1. I think the only greens supporting Dean are the ones who have...

given up their beliefs to get rid of Bush.

If they believed in the Greens 10 key points they would be supporting Kucinich for his 10 points are more or less the same.

[Robin Hood]

4. I love Kucinich, except for his Department of peace thingy.

It's not that there is anything wrong with the concept of peace. it's just that a whole other bureaucratic department to promote peace is lame. The government should inherently promote peace without having to designate a bureaucratic title to it.

But other than that Dennis would be a fine visionary president, if he had a chance in hell of winning. America is hung up on looks and Kucinich next to good ol boy Bush just won't get America excited. in fact Dean's looks scare me as well, as far as he not being able to beat Bush based on looks alone. I'm sorry to say that, but a large percentage of Americans vote on looks, look at the Gropenator.

[eileen_d]

2. Unfortunately, the short-term goal is to get the nomination

And DUers have different short-term goals for that horse race. I think most DUers are all aware, as you are, that we all share the same long-term goal -- ousting Bush in 2004.

When we remember that we all want to beat Bush, we look and act good. But when we equate ousting Bush with supporting a single candidate to the exclusion of all others, we look and act bad.

Edit: I should mention that ousting Bush is not the only thing that DUers want -- we want a better government, a better world, and lord knows there's plenty of different visions of that out there.
I'm not saying this from some pedestal of moral high ground - I am a smart ass and have looked and acted bad on this forum occasionally. Guess I'm just having a philosophical moment. Good night.

[Robin Hood]

8. A better world and a better government begins with the ousting of Bush.

i just hope that the next dem prez doesn't spend his whle time trying to appease the Republicans like Clinton did. For me Clintons legacy isn't the blow job and a good economy. But rather a missed opportunity towards progress and progressive politics in this country.

he blew it in more ways then one. The next Dem prez can not, and we should not let him/her get away with it.

[fabius]

3. Weird. I agree.

I don't really like to see ANY Democratic candidate bashed. Ok we all have our favorites, but we are not the party of personality cult. The parties of personality cult are:

Republican
Ba'athist
Communist

OK?

[Robin Hood]

23. What's so weird?

That you agree with me?

[mikehiggins]

5. Well, that's the problem, Lib

We know what the goal is but we really don't think Dr. Dean is the guy to get us to the finish line.

Gore is a good example. The guy managed to toss away an election in which he was the former Vice President facing a chimp. And the chimp beat him. Gore even lost his home state.

Okay, so Bush didn't "beat" him but Gore still managed to let the campaign get so far out of whack that the Supreme Court was actually able to decide who was going to be President. I'm sure Washington and Jefferson were both spinning in their graves that morning.

So now we have another politician, somewhat to the right of Gore and many of his supporters, who is being served up as the guy who can go up against an incumbent president in what is being sold as a time of war. Many of us, for many reasons, just don't buy it, and we're taking the chance to say that while we still can.

I don't know who those "greens" are that you are talking about but I do know that they are not the only ones who are afraid that it takes a lot more to beat an incumbent president than large numbers of people. If that was true, Nixon would have lost. Instead he trampled his opponent.

So, for what its worth, I really like Howard Dean but I can't support him for the nomination. If he wins it I'll continue to work against George Bush as hard as I can, but it'll be like being one of Custer's troopers. You fight to the end because you have no choice, but you know what the end will be as soon as you see all those Indians.

[Robin Hood]

9. I feel exactly as you do.

For me the only choices are for those that opposed this war, and out of those, it's only Dean that stands out. Is there anyone else willing to enter the fray, or is it to late already.

(Sigh).

BTW, well written post.

[nofurylike]

20. i can't even begin about your broader message, mikehiggins.

was here just to read.

but then, that custer thing. twisted.

real bad taste.

that's all.

[Old and In the Way]

6. You really think all the 'Greens' posting here are on the level?

I don't.

Luckily, their schtick will only work through the primary season. After that, we can come together to focus on the only real issue that matters...kicking the neo-criminals out of office.

[Cooley Hurd]

7. Most of the anti-Dean Greens I've seen tonight...

...have been disrupting more than contributing. I think I broke my alert button.

[ErasureAcer]

10. they're helping by making their case for a moderate like Dean...

not to be president.

Which IMO is a good thing. If you disagree speak your word but don't say they're not helping...they(like me) want the best Democratic Candidate to be the nominee...and that is Dennis Kucinich.

[Robin Hood]

12. Saying stuff like, if Dean gets the nominee, I'm voting for Nader.

Does not help the progressive cause in any way.

[ErasureAcer]

14. yes it does...

Dean isn't a progressive...simple as that. He may have what...1 or 2 progressive issues...and one of those is dead in the water as he said gay rights are a state issue.

I'll be voting for the Green Party, Natural Law or Socialist candidate shall Dean get the nomination.

I vote my conscience and what is right for the world...not out of fear.

Fear Ends. Hope Begins. www.kucinich.us

[Robin Hood]

15. Oh man..

This is the same rhetoric that was echoed during 2000 and look at where all those morality votes got us. Gore would have been the most progressive President in this nations history but the greens said that there was no difference between the parties.

And here we are. i can't wait for four more years of Bush, followed by eight more years of Jeb Bush. Yipppee-Kayayy.

Some people are just gluttons for punishment.

[ErasureAcer]

19. Gore lost the election himself

You point the finger at Nader but he is not to blame. These people voting for Nader(like me) don't consider Gore's platform(or Dean's for that matter) progressive and never would vote for these people.

If Nader wasn't running...I would have voted for someone else. I don't vote for people with crappy platforms as do people who are turned off by the Democrats/Republicans.

You can keep blaming Nader for Gore's loss but you'll never get these people to vote for your candidate as long as your candidate is a moderate clown.

Keep living in denial...for Nader didn't lose the election, GORE DID.

You honestly can't expect people to use their vote to vote for someone they don't like.

If you do, you're kidding yourself.

[Robin Hood]

21. There is no difference between the candidates!!

Do you remember Ralphie boy uttering those words? That lie is what took votes away from Gore and made it possible to give Bush the appearance of winning all the way to the Supreme court. I'm so tired of the lack of responsibility that the greens have thrown around since then. It's really transparent and weak.

I have even heard Saint Ralph say that Gore couldn't win his own state. He said this without mentioning the fact that the South could not vote for a ticket with a jewish man on the ticket. Perhaps his choice of VP was poor. But to say that Gore lost because he couldn't get the racist vote is really unbeckoming of Ralph and perhaps shows his true colors.

[ErasureAcer]

22. Obviously he thinks there is a difference between Kucinich...

and the other Dems.

He has asked his supporters to support Kucinich during the Democratic Primaries/Caucuses...so obviously he believes there is a difference between the democratic candidates...and some he even supports!

If we would nominate Kucinich...we could win the white house...if we don't I can't honestly see some of the front leaders moderate, non-progressive, platforms bringing out the vote.

Kucinich will turn out the vote...the others won't...simple as that.

[Robin Hood]

16. True, but it's not just tonight.

it's been ever since Gore gave the endorsement.

[Moderator]

11. Please remove "WTF" from both Subject and Message.

[Robin Hood]

13. Got it..

Thnx. I didn't know that What the fudge was an innapropriate use of language.

:evilgrin:

[Moderator]

17. Thanks!

Yeah ... well, I just moderate. :D Some folks are allergic to fudge.

[Robin Hood]

18. Heheheh.

:toast:

[Iverson]

24. Wish I knew what you were talking about.

I have not seen any Greens reserve a special animus for Dean. Care to PM me with a name or two?

[Polemonium]

25. Haven't seen it, I think your making things up

show me.

[JNelson6563]

26. I don't know that it's primarily Greens

Regardless of the label they choose. Think on it a second. Within the last couple months or so we have had a massive infiltration of posters who have racked up very large post counts rapidly. They all claim to support someone or other in this race (a majority claiming a certain candidate but I have my doubts) and all have the one purpose of bashing Dean.

Frankly I don't believe many of them are Democrats at all. Massive infiltration is a tactic of the reich-wing. They know the importance of appearing the majority. I have seen otherwise seemingly intelligent posters fall for this inflitration, thus demonstrating the effectiveness of this method.

Julie

[KG]

27. innuendo and aspersions

how cute!