DUers, please answer this one question: Why did the Saudi's do it?

[TruthIsAll]

So, answer this one question: Why did the Saudi's do it? Why would they finance bin_Laden? Why would they do 9/11, not knowing how Bush would react? After all, he could have gone after them immediately, instead of going to war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

What was in it for the Saudi's? Why would they want to make life so difficult for the new pResident?

My tongue is firmly in my cheek.

[LittleApple81]

1. To protect themselves

Saudis support fundamentalist Muslims so that they go to other countries to create havock. That way these fundamentalists don't go after the royal family in Saudi Arabia.

[ianbruce]

37. To protect themselves.

Exactly.

[charlie]

2. Shakedown money

Paying Bin Laden and the hardline clerics keeps the anger focussed outward instead of at the Sauds. Now they're in a real bind. Notice the uptick in terrorist activity within Saudi Arabia since 911.

[lcordero]

3. I really doubt that the Saudis or any Muslim groups are involved

I saw a news report just recently, the coroners found no middleeasterners on any of the flights. Also 5 of the 19 so-called hi-jackers are said to be alive and well. I am highly suspicious of what is going on.

[ShaneGR]

5. The coroners????

Ummmm, what were they going to identify? Ashes??? All of the victims on the WTC planes were completely incinerated. All of the victims on Flight 93 were burned to ash. All of the victims on the Pentagon plane were also burned beyond recognition.

[lcordero]

7. from the bone that was left

I take it back, it seems that 7 of 19 hijackers are alive

[bpilgrim]

10. it would be nice to have some video tape of them in the airport

and what about the ones who are still alive?

peace

[tomp]

38. i never thought of that.

does everyone get videotaped at the airport at some point?

[bpilgrim]

6. i'm with you... wheels within wheels...

i could really only see the saudis do it if they were directed to by us...

bin laden could probably predict an out come like this which has the potential of bringing both his enemies houses down...

but that doesn't really explain our reaction that day... makes it appear that we let it happen, especially when you consider what we now know about how much they knew prior to... but a lot of folks point to how dumb bush is and say he just got caught with his pants down, i still don't by that yet...

to me the simplist explainantion is they knew something was comming down the pike and the bush team said 'BRING IT ON!' we got PNAC ready fer yer a$$.

but like you said something stinks bad.

peace

[The Backlash Cometh]

4. Good question.

Do you have any idea if Saddam was a thorn at the Saudi's side? If the Saudis wanted Iraq taken care of, then perhaps things might begin to make a little sense.

[alfredo]

8. The Saudis and Kuwaitis opened relations with

Iraq before the war. Of course that could have been some gamesmanship to impress the other muslim nations.

[Old and In the Way]

11. That and

I think the Saudi's probably told the US that they had to leave or even greater problems would start occuring in the Kingdom for the princes and their benefactors.

Interesting how we were "evicted" right after the occupation of Iraq was complete....

And who are is Bush and Co. to argue with a country that has $7 trillion dollars invested in our economy? An investment encouraged by these same people running the country now?

I suspect that they were in a bind and this Saudi friendly administration cooked up a plan to start the PNAC ball rolling. What I don't really understand is why they used SA nationals....why not Iraqi's? At least have the "evidence" doctored to justify the "Iraqi's did the 9/11 event" meme that this admionistration as boldly tried to create in spite of the existing evidence.

[Brian Sweat]

33. We did not invade Iraq for the Saudis.

We did it because of them. The time is coming when we will need to wash our hands of the Saudis. Before we can do this, we have to secure other sources of oil. That is why we kicked Saddam out. With Saddam in charge in Iraq, Iraq could not be counted on for a steady supply of oil.

This is also why we are seeing a lot of activity in and around Liberia. There are 60 billion barrels of oil of the shore of Africa in the region around Liberia. Once we have secured this oil, we will be able to cut the Saudis loose.

Osama Bin Forgetten wanted to overthrow the Royal family and take control of Saudi Arabia. That is why he formed Al Qada (the base) back in 1988. When Saddam invaded Kuwait, his plans were ruined because the U.S. established a long term military presence in SA making it impossible for him to overthrow the Royal family. This is why he was pissed at the U.S.

[The Backlash Cometh]

46. Hmm...

Interesting perspective.

[notadmblnd]

47. I don't think the Saudis wanted Iraq taken care of

I think the Saudis were afraid that Iraq could be a threat prior to GW1. But with The US containment of Iraq and bases in SA I think the Saudis felt pretty safe.

The one thing you have to keep asking yourself is, Who benefits? The Saudis don't benefit from the US getting their hands on the Iraqi oil. They stand to lose revenue we won't have to import as much from them.

The United States having control of the oil in Iraq and where it goes is who benefits. Find out where the pipeline ends and you'll know who perpetrated 911.

[nostamj]

9. it was BUSINESS

it's always been BUSINESS.

(who made the money on the put options?)

BushCo in power is good business for Saudis/Bushies.
War is good business for Saudis/Bushies.

Clinton in power was bad business for Saudis/Bushies.
Peace is bad business for Saudis/Bushies.

it's all BUSINESS.

[Octafish]

54. Bono.

Bizness.

[SayitAintSo]

12. Anyone consider Mossad complicity ?

At the risk of starting a flamer ....

[Old and In the Way]

14. No flame here.

Israel certainly benefited from the "event" and the PNAC view of a new world order.

There will be some who will not accept any mention of Israel involement in 9/11, but who knows the real details of how this whole operation was pulled off? I do know that an Israeli company was in charge of airport security at the 3 airports involved and someone in an Israeli paging company was setting off warnings prior to the 1st crash into the WTC.

Israel intel knew it was going down, whether they were active participants or frustrated bystanders, I'm not sure.

[Droopy]

16. I know the Israel angle

They wouldn't do it. They are the recipient of the largest amount of financial aid from the US. Not to mention they use that aid to buy all kinds of military equipment from us. They'd have to much too lose.

[knight_of_the_star]

31. I doubt it

You have your tinfoil hat on too tight. They warned us of it in advance, I bet that was one of the things mentioned at the August '01 meeting the pResident had at his little ranch in Texas. That and 911 didn't really help Israel that much, it didn't make their invasion of the West Bank less noticed.

[tomp]

40. israeli govt is totally behind the invasion of iraq...

...which may have been the ultimate goal of 9/11. and isn't it so very convenient that they warned us in advance? what if they knew bush would do nothing with the info? pretty good cover, eh?

[SayitAintSo]

48. It did make us more sympathetic to their position ...

It also brought a strong US presence to the region which will benefit Israel in the long run, with Bush's questionable linkage of 911 to Iraq - which would not have been that hard to predict knowing Bush and the neocons position. Personally, there is not much I would put past certain factions of the Israeli government. Call me a tinfoiler if you want ....

[Droopy]

13. Let me dust off my tin foil hat

If I recall correctly, bin Laden was in exile and was disowned by his family. But I'll put my conspiracy hat on and give it a whorl.

Assuming bin Laden was acting as an agent of the Saudi government when he organized 9/11. The Saudis have been pissed about US troops being stationed in their country for a long time. They were allowed into the country on the premise that Hussein was about to invade them right before Gulf War I. That turned out to be false and we never left. That's reason #1. Next we have the world oil market. OPEC was about to switch it's trading currency to the Euro before the war. Reasons are simple economics. The Euro is stronger than the dollar right now. 9/11 was the Saudi's big farewell and 'fuck you' to America. They hate everything about America, but especially our military and our economy which they see as being oppressive to them. So we have the symbolic strikes on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

Ok, that's enough for me. That tin foil hat was giving me a headache.

[tomp]

41. if the tin foil hat doesn't fit right...

...next time try your thinking cap.

first, prove your assumption that osama was behind it.

then, your "big farewell and fuck you to america" sounds like bush-spin: they hate us and everything we stand for because our attempts economic and military domination seems like...well, economic and military domination. the simple switching of currencies would be a sufficient "fuck you" and retaliation in kind.

[leftofthedial]

15. It was not Saudi Arabia, the state

It was Saudis, some of whom are closely tied to the state.

They are fundamentalist Muslims and hate us.

[ewagner]

34. Second that

it is my understanding that Saudi Gov't Officials in their PRIVATE capacity bankrolled the hijackers. Not the government itself.

[never cry wolf]

17. here's a theory...

...that seems to follow everything else postulated about the bfee/saudi marriage. the saudis and big US oil companies partnered in oil deals in the former soviet states, right?? iraq has the second largest known oil reserves in the world and it is the wide assumption that their as yet undiscovered reserves will total them to have more than saudi arabia itself. could this not be a simple business transaction?? you arrange 9/11, we'll have the populace roiled up enough to invade iraq and between our respective oil companies and defence industries we'll split the profits with a slice going to BP!!!

keep in mind, when we talk saudis here, it's not really the country, it's the family that owns the country AND the oil AND the oil companies that are all in bed with each other worldwide.

[never cry wolf]

18. as an addendum

also keep in mind that the saudis basically are fundamentalist, orthodox muslims with no love lost for the baath, secular sadaam. in fact, he represented a threat to them and other fundamentalist states in the region. to them, separation of religion and state is a bad thing (sound familiar??)

[TruthIsAll]

19. So, let's connect the dots..

They had bin Laden do 9/11 because they needed an event to justify getting Saddam, for religous AND economic AND political reasons.

I smell a confluence here: Motive? Means? Opportunity?

[never cry wolf]

20. as well as...

...being step one of the PNAC foreign policy. the US already had saudi oil assurances, the EU, russia and china were looking for alternative resources. the bfee HAD to get their hands on the nozzle first to stifle any uprisings against future hegemony. control the oil and you pretty much can shut down any industrialized nations you want.

another dot-----power!!

so the motive on the bfee/pnac side is economic and power, as well as their ill founded belief that all would go well and it would not only be the soldiers who had flowers about their feet but their leaders at home as well. connecting the dots (and assuming complete greed and ruthlessness on all sides) if all went as planned and nobody blew the whistle it would be a BIG win-win for both parties involved.

lotta ifs and assumptions in there i am afraid, do i have my head out over my skis here??

[tomp]

44. what's to prevent the u.s. from rolling over sa

as soon as they get a proper foothold in iraq (if they ever do)?

[never cry wolf]

24. had a thought overnight

there are 28 pages missing from the 9/11 report. cheney is still stonewalling on releasing info from his energy policy board meetings but it has come out that the info included maps of iraqi oil fields. has there ever been a list of people who were his "advisors?" could, perchance, besides just oil execs attending there may have been execs from oil companies owned or partially owned or partnered with saudi oil companies?? could there have been any saudis helping write american energy policy?? things that make you go hmmmmmmmm....

:kick:

[Solomon]

21. I Don't Think Bin Laden Had Anything to do with

9-11. My recollection is that he said he didn't. He had no reason to lie about it. The only "evidence" presented thus far that Bin Laden was involved was a fake videotape.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/articlesosama.html


Why would our "government" do that? Just wondering. Like why nobody followed Standard Operating Procedures on 9-11? It seems like such a simple question, but no one wants to ask it. Who made the killing on the stock market? Such an easy thing to find out. Why isn't anyone with clout asking this question? I could go on all night, but I'll stop here.

[nolabels]

29. Many things to investigate

Anybody see this one?
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/AAsaudi.html
Bin_Laden_family,_Saudi_Arabia_corruption
and_support_of_terrorists,_connections_to_Bush

by Paul Thompson.
See forums to discuss 9/11 and this timeline

(snip)
December 26, 1979: Soviet forces invade Afghanistan. They will withdraw in 1989 after a brutal 10-year war. In a 1998 interview, Zbigniew Brzezinski, President Carter's National Security Adviser, reveals that the CIA began destabilizing the pro-Soviet Afghan government six months earlier, in a deliberate attempt to get the Soviets to invade and have their own Vietnam-type costly war: "What was more important in the world view of history? The Taliban or the fall of the Soviet Empire? A few stirred-up Muslims or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the Cold War?" The US and Saudi Arabia give a huge amount of money (estimates range up to $40 billion total for the war) to support the mujaheddin guerrilla fighters opposing the Russians. Most of the money is managed by the ISI, Pakistan's intelligence agency.
(snip)

[tomp]

45. st. jimmy carter's doing, no?

yes, soooo many questions. it is insane to pretend to have any justification to go ahead this way without investigation of all these issues. outright insanity, no question about it.

[pfitz59]

22. House of Saud is Anglo-US creation.

It's a house of cards waiting to topple. King of Jordan is rightful hereditary ruler of Hijaz (Mecca)! Saudia Arabia has been in existence less than 100 years. There are literally thousands of tribal chiefs and religious sects who would welcome release from Saudi domination. And its not just Saudi nationals supporting bin Laden. Last time I was in UAE (2000) nearly every teenager I met was growing a beard and wanted to join bin Laden in Afghanistan! We are talking icebergs here! (Icebergs in the desert? What does he mean?)

[Lostnote03]

23. Shakedown!!!

.....I'd like to see the airport security tapes......how many times have we seen police surveilance footage broadcast for home entertainment purposes however now the Bush family motto "National Security" prevents any broadcasting of visual proof???.....Face it folks it has been a very real experience beginning with the 2000 SC decision.....All policy making positions were filled with the appropriate "experienced" handlers of chaos as well as the filtering agents (OSP) to legitimize the rational of excuses......It took me many years to actually believe within my heart that JFK was an inside job by our own countrymen....I refuse to have my sense of patriotism be equated to that of a "focus group".....911 required much more than a series of lucky coincidences and I will take that belief to my grave with me.......Timothy McVeys remark when asked about the innocent children in the first floor nursery, "collateral damage" is a stark reminder of the mindset of those that are more than willing to murder in the name of a patriotic cause....Of course McVey was not motivated by the hundreds of billions of dollars at stake as well as world dominion.....Sorry for the rant however whenever Arabs are mentioned as the "lone" culprits of 911 I visualize a passport floating from the heavens onto the streets of NYC....

[Q]

26. I can't see how the Saudi terrorists have made Bush's* life...

...more difficult. The media has labeled him as the 'most popular president' in 'wartime history'. They call him a 'hero' and 'top gun'. They made him look larger than life after 9-11. Before 9-11...Bush's* ratings were tanking and stories about STOLEN ELECTIONS and illegitimacy were dogging him from all sides. But then he became 'untouchable' literally overnight.

- Poppy Bush and representatives of the Bush Clan have visited Saudi regularly for years. Who knows what kind of 'event' they cooked up to make little george into a boy king?

[never cry wolf]

27. and i hear

that when poppy is over there he stays at the bin laden family place.

[TruthIsAll]

35. I agree, the Saudis gave Bush the boost he needed,

that's why I had my tongue firmly in my cheek.......

[HFishbine]

25. Plausible

Okay, no hard evidence; not an arguement I'd try to debate, but considering just how many tinfoil hat theories have thus far proven to be true when it comes to this administration, how about this one:

The Saudis were just a conduit. The real driving force was the PNAC/BFEE cabal. If they could create the havoc that 9.11 wrought, they could:

- begin to implement their plan for U.S. military dominance through pre-emptive war
- discredit the U.N.
- Control the oil
- Funell seemingly endless funds to corporations with Administration ties to pay for war support and re-building.
- Foster a climate of fear that would advance an extremsit domestic agenda (Patriot Act, defict spending to put progressive domestic programs at risk)

Bottom line: who had the most to gain? I cannot yet see how the Saudis would gain from causing chaos in the country of their largest customer.

It would be (eventually wil be) very interesting to see what the Saudis reveal when the heat is turned up on them. Is the BFEE protecting the Saudis because they are just misunderstood, or are they afraid that the Saudis may reveal a connection to 9/11 that indicts the BFEE?

[tjdee]

28. Why did you put an apostrophe in Saudis?

You don't need an apostrophe for plurals.

Saudi's is as if you are saying "Jack Saudi's pants".

Saudis is the plural of Saudi.

I'm sorry for being so anal retentive, but I've been advised to stop having caffeine and that's making me grumpy. I'll keep my mouth shut now.

;-)

[HFishbine]

30. Hey

Thats okay. Its hard to keep track of those apostrohy's. Thanks for reminding us of it's proper use.

[The White Rose]

32. Because Poppy Bush asked them nicely.

eom

[MIMStigator]

36. To get an Iraq war? n/t

n/t

[tomp]

42. i question that rationale.

it seems to me that saudia arabia is much more vulnerable to the u.s. now (assuming "victory" in iraq, which is still uncertain) than they were before. if the u.s could stabilize iraq it coud use it as a lauching off point for many wars in the area.

[joshcryer]

52. The US is well known to not attack those who don't nationalize...

...so it would be irrational for the US to attack a so called “friendly dictator.”

[nannygoat]

39. Good article about the subject...

Saddam Hussein Public Enemy Number One?
http://www.workinsaudi.com/saddam.htm

[LiberalLibra]

43. Bin Laden is a member of the Saudi rulling family. DUH!! They supposedly

....disowned Bin Laden back in the early to mid 90's. Does anyone else see that as a possible set up??? What started the whole thing?? The Russian invasion of Afghanistan. Remember, the US was financing the Afghan resistence until the Russians finally pulled out. Then the US, after all those years of we are your friends bull shit, decided to pull out as well and leave Afghanistan with a destroyed country. Now, had we decided to stay and feed, clothe, and educate them people we might have some allies today.

[jody]

49. Because they could get away with it! eom

[joshcryer]

51. Whoa, scary, I didn't see your post until I made mine!

But it's true. :)

[joshcryer]

50. Because they knew they could get away with it.

Pretty much that simple.

[Octafish]

53. BFEE ordered it.

Reichstag fire. WTC-Pentagon-Pennsylvania.

Enabling Act legitimized unelected fraud. USA PATRIOT Act legitimized unelected fraud's badministration.

Invades Poland. Invades Iraq.

Starts WW2. Tries to start WW3.

Lucky us.

[Catherine Vincent]

55. BFEE

What is that?

[Insider]

56. F.O.G.

Friends of George