Clark throws "cold water" on Dean-Clark "dream ticket"

[Field Of Dreams]

From salon.com -- link to the initial part of the story. Need to subscribe or have a "day pass" to read entire article.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/12/15/clark/index_np.html

[w4rma]

1. Clark's and maybe the country's loss. (n/t)

[janx]

16. My thoughts too.

So many people are looking forward to it.

[Jack_Dawson]

112. Clark is Right

Deanies, I know you like your guy. But it's pretty naive to think the repukes won't make national security the central issue in the campaign. Clark has the experience. Dean does not. It's not flamebait - it's just a fact.

[wndycty]

2. Oh Oh here come the flames. . .

. . .but Clark and his supporters can take it!

[clarknyc]

3. Chill...

What's this us and them stuff? We're in this together.

[berner59]

4. Dreamy pic....

of Wes... I actually agree that the Dem candidate this time needs to have some military experience...one - to deal with Iraq, two to mend deep wounds in foreign affairs and three - to beat Bush who's Presidency will sickly be based on foreign policy, albeit failed in most opinions...

[madfloridian]

5. Well, actually the headline is:Howard Dean Can't Win.

Hmm..mmm.

Very nice, Clark.

[ResistTheCoup]

60. That's Salon's headline

Clark just says that a Dean/Clark ticket won't win. The strong foreign policy experience has to be on the top of the ticket.

[maddezmom]

94. that's the author's spin

Clark did not mention Dean by name.

[Myra]

6. Harumpf! It's up to Ted Koppel to decide who is on the Dem ticket!

And don't anyone forget it.

[arewethereyet]

7. I always thought this was far fetched anyway

too much of the wrong ego between them and besides, that stuff got pretty much squashed in Clark's coming out mackinations.

[Nlighten1]

8. Why on Earth would Clark say "ok" to a VP slot...

when he is running for President? Keep your cards close to your vest and keep them guessing. I hope he isn't serious but if he is that is his decision.

[unfrigginreal]

9. Screw Clark

Let's see how far he gets by trashing Dean. Good luck.

[IranianDemocrat]

10. Oh come on now!

What was he supposed to say? "Dean is a better candidate than I am!" LOL

[Sean Reynolds]

13. No, but he doesn't have to say he can't win.

Just more Republican crap to throw at Dean if he wins the nomination.

Even Democrats don't think Dean can win. I can hear Rove saying it now.

[Field Of Dreams]

20. Well that's his opinion...

and Clark will live with the consequences of his statements whether they are good or bad.

He has said any of the candidates would be better as President than George Bush.

[eileen_d]

80. Clark does not say Dean can't win.

Please find the quote (other than the headline, made up by Salon) that proves that he thinks Dean can't win. Clark is saying that he (Clark) is better qualified. He *never* says Dean can't win.

[Barbara917]

105. Clark says,

"I don't think the Democratic Party can win without carrying a heavy experience in national security affairs into the campaign," he told Salon in a phone interview last week. "And that experience can't be in a vice president."

Asked if he was referring specifically to the much-discussed possibility of a Dean-Clark ticket, he said: "It's no substitute. It won't work, and it won't carry the election for this party."

This is from the Salon article referenced in the first post in this thread.

[Scoopie]

106. Well...

Independent's don't think he can win, either, and they're, in greater numbers these days.

[Kahuna]

68. LOL! Deanies are so sensitive.

Gotta love 'em though. :7

[Lefta Dissenter]

30. uhhhh, about your subject line...

can I really? Huh???? Huh??????

OK, I know it was juvenile, but sometimes I just say what's on my mind.

I don't think any of the candidates (except Carol) are willing to discuss being someone's VP, because that implies they aren't planning to win the nomination. And the reason I say except Carol is that at the end of the... when WAS it... at the end of the Planned Parenthood forum, perhaps, on the way out, someone told Carol that she should be Dean's VP, and she said something to the effect of 'well, tell him that."

[ResistTheCoup]

61. Hey! (Get in line!)

:)

[oasis]

90. Dean/Mosely Braun: The "what the hell might as well" ticket.

[Scoopie]

107. Hahahaha

I wonder if Gert knows how many women lust after her husband!
:D

[knight_of_the_star]

118. She probably does

And that probably just reinforces to her what a good pick she made.

[Jerseycoa]

48. See this is the problem

They are running AGAINST each other for the nomination. It's a primary race. He has said several times that any of the other candidates would be a better president than Bush. For some reason, people have been wanting to see them as running mates, but they are not. They are opponents. It is not trashing to point out Dean's lack of foreign policy experience. Dean gets to defend himself. And he gets to point out that Clark has never held office. Clark gets to defend himself. This is how primaries work.

:dem:

[unfrigginreal]

54. Claiming that Dean cannot win against Bush

is offering ammo to the GOP against Dean. It is not the same as saying that you would be a better choice against Bush. This is totally unacceptable.

[eileen_d]

79. Did you read the article? Clark did not say this.

Reading Is Fundamental.

[in_cog_ni_to]

95. hehe!

good one. :7

[retyred]

63. Saying he thought dean couldn't beat bush is trashing him?

Thank god he didn't state what so many (75%) think as to why? He would've been accused of putting a knife in his back!

Get real, just how would the "You have the power" deanster have answered the same question?

The man and his supporters "Believe" he is the best chance to beat bush, for that it's an attack on dean....ok!?!


george bush…pResident?

retyred in fla
“good night paul, wherever you are”
So I read this book

[unfrigginreal]

67. Dean would have been a class act I'm sure

He would have said what he's said all along, that any of the candidates could beat Bush but that he would be the best choice. But I don't expect that means much to the "I weep everytime he does talks about the flag" Clarkettes. We're not interested in a messiah, we've found a leader.

[Sean Reynolds]

11. Screw Clark.

If he's going to say Dean can't win because he lacks lacks national security credibility, I'm gonna say Clark can't win because he lacks domestic credibility.

You know, I'm sick of other Democrats saying Dean can't win. If Dean wins the nomination, and loses, you can blame ALL the Democrats that said he couldn't win.

[Renew Deal]

18. Domestic credibility

will not matter if Bush is seen strong on national security and the economy is stable. It is going to take a different kind of candidate with different ideas and that can be seen as someone that can make people feel safe. The southern credibility will also be more important.

[Sean Reynolds]

22. Which SHOULD be BS.

Because come 2004; jobs will still be lost, millions of Americans will still be without health care; the elderly will still be forking over $$$ to pay for their drugs; education will be in the tank. But it'll all be worth it because the media reports that the economy is 'rebounding' and we've gotten Saddam!

[Renew Deal]

38. I understand the problems

I am just afraid that this is the world we live in. I asked my not so political little sister what she thought. She is a college age Democrat who will vote the party line for ideology but also will stray when she feels it's right. She said: Bush probably just got reelected. The elderly, education, and the homeless are all important, but nothing will be more important than national security. And unless you can make people feel safe, you don't have a chance.

Lets pretend (and pray, wish, and hope) there aren't any more terrorist attacks in the US. Who is going to be able to make people feel more safe than they already feel? I was starting to like Dean more, but this is still a major deficiency of his. Edwards helps with the south though I still expect him to lose NC against Bush*. Kerry is a faux foreign policy expert. He gets FP credit for going to Vietnam. That's not any real experience for today's world. Also Kerry, Gep, and Lieberman are all congressmen without any executive FP experience. The only one that offers real FP experience and solid liberal values is Clark. I think he is our only hope.

[MontecitoDem]

26. Yeah, because God forbid you blame the people who nominated Dean

knowing he couldn't win the General election!

[Sean Reynolds]

32. Well when you've got ALL 8 other Democrats saying he can't....

Don't you think that'll play into the hands of Bush and Co come 2004? I mean if you can't even have the faith of your party, how the hell are you going to have the faith of the people?

It's UTTER BS and it's a Republican talking point that has been adopted by the Democrats to stop Dean. It's sad and shouldn't have ANY part in this party.

[MontecitoDem]

41. "faith of our party" sounds a bit spiritual for a primary fight.

WHAT? Dean doesn't have "the faith of party" because he hasn't won the nomination yet. Each of the other candidates would also like to be the nominee and are going to (and should) fight to get that spot. That is part of our democratic process, no? We don't appoint our executive branch leaders, we ELECT them. After all the information is out there, after everyone (who can afford to) has had their say.

Why do you think the Republican media folks want Dean to win? They and many of us (life-long dems) see that Dean is missing some critical areas for the state of our country right now. Lots of us don't think he is the best candidate.

If he wins the nomination, that's another story. Then I work my ass off to see him win.

[Renew Deal]

44. Welcome MontecitoDem

You have pumped out some great posts as a new member. Welcome

:toast: :hi:

[MontecitoDem]

47. Thanks bleachers.

I'm guessing we both like the same guy!

How do you get those cool pictures in your posts? I'm a total newbie.

[Renew Deal]

50. Clark

:) When you open up a a text windo so you can post... There is a link right above the box that says Smilies lookup table. Click on that. A window opens up and shows you the code to get those up. You can test it out and the JTML features in the Meeting Room. Have fun.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=111&topic_id=8690&mesg_id=8690

[Kahuna]

70. Woo Hoo! Another Clarkie?

Welcome to the Wes Wing on DU!
:yourock: and WES WILL WIN!!!

[retyred]

66. WOW....You saw that too?

Nice logic, it's our fault his guy couldn't win!



george bush…pResident?

retyred in fla
“good night paul, wherever you are”
So I read this book

[SahaleArm]

55. Dean's anti-business platform lacks credibility and won't help create jobs

Is that true? How can I trust a governor from a small rural state, with little to no economic diversity, to have any understanding of international economic theory? He's a doctor, and that's great for healthcare, but jobs are currently of higher priority and he doesn't instill me with confidence.

Can this subjective view of Dean be refuted?

[zulchzulu]

73. Is dub dub dub Morons for Dean taken yet?

"If Dean wins the nomination, and loses, you can blame ALL the Democrats that said he couldn't win."

That has to be one of the most juvenile, shallow comments I've seen from a Deaniac yet.

It's like putting in a junior-league pitcher in the last game of the World Series and blaming the people in the stands because he lost the game.

[ResistTheCoup]

76. LOL!

Yes, please stop raining on their 'inevitability' parade and get in line!

:)

[in_cog_ni_to]

97. Delete.......n/t

[Scoopie]

108. But he will lose...

so why take that chance?

[Pastiche423]

12. Is this a firm no, clark will not be Dean's vp?

[Rose Siding]

36. I hope so!

Dean wouldn't need that kind of negativity.

[jsw_81]

14. Clark

He's probably better suited to be Secretary of Defense under President Dean anyway. I'd prefer to see Bob Graham get the vice presidency since he's from Florida (27 electoral votes) and familiar with the Senate.

[Renew Deal]

19. I think the point is

that there will never be a President Dean. That's what this is saying.

[Sean Reynolds]

25. Nor a President Clark.....

Cause Dean will win the nomination.

So Clark can return back to his private life, knowing he had a good run and got a few jabs in at the end that hurt Dean's chances against Bush.

[MontecitoDem]

35. I'm still not understanding this expected kid-glove treatment!

Go back to the previous primaries guys. Democrats go after democrats and republicans go after republicans. It's the way our system works. Should everyone but Dean just drop out now and say, "Hey, sure no one has voted yet, but I'll just drop out of the race even though I think I'm the best candidate so Dean can be our nominee."

This is a campaign not a coronation.

[Renew Deal]

43. You don't get it

if that's what you think I was saying. I was saying that the original poster was missing the point. Not that Dean is a loser.

[Scoopie]

111. hmmmm

Can't wait to see who New Hampshire's independents vote for... I'm betting NOT Dean.

Hee, hee... do you know what Vermont's top export is? NUTS (oh, and bolts and screws). Seriously. That just struck me funny. Of course, I'm from Tennessee, where our "unofficial" top export is marijuana... LOL.

[JI7]

15. i never believed it

i never believed all the talk or rumors of how he was running for vice president. why go through all this for the vp position ? if he just wanted the vp position wouldn't it make more sense to stay out of the campaign and avoid getting into it with the other candidates. this way he can stay on their good side and have a better chance of being chosen for the vp position.

[Spazito]

17. This is Clark's exact quote....

"I don't think the Democratic Party can win without carrying a heavy experience in national security affairs into the campaign," he told Salon in a phone interview last week. "And that experience can't be in a vice president."

Dean's name is NOT in this quote, it is the writer that has put Dean's name in this, not Clark.

[Mattforclark]

31. I hate the media

I hate how it twists people's words. I hate how it misquotes people. I hate how it ignores all context. I hate how it covers 'important' stories like Michael Jackson and the Peterson whateveritis in California I think (I don't pay attention to that crap).

I want a real media, at least as good as the British media (which still isn't perfect).

[Jerseycoa]

37. Okay, it's out in the open

>Asked if he was referring specifically to the much-discussed possibility of a Dean-Clark ticket, he said: "It's no substitute. It won't work, and it won't carry the election for this party."

And I am glad, because I never thought it could work, anyway. If Dean is the nominee, he needs a Congress-savvy VP. If Clark is the nominee, he needs a Congress-savvy VP.

Dean and his supporters think he would make the better president for their reasons. Clark and his supporters think Clark would make the better president for our reasons. I think it's just hard sense and plain speaking, and not insulting. He's gone along with this a while now, and maybe he just had to straighten it out.


:dem:

[TrueAmerican]

21. Wow! A refreshing honest politician

He lays it all on the line. He speaks the truth. Go Clark!

[Woodstock]

23. Too bad

One thing I've really admired about Clark until now was that he was the only one (even Dean is guilty of that) who stayed above the fray of inter-party bashing.

If Clark gets the nom, I'll back him strenuously. But it's too bad he won't consider VP if he doesn't. I'd hope Dean would also consider VP if he doesn't. The important thing for the country, more important than anyone's ego, is beating Bush.

[wndycty]

27. But its ok when Dean attacks Clark?

:kick:

[Sean Reynolds]

34. When did he attack Clark?

OH you mean when he said that he supported the war. If I recall, that has been the only time he's attacked Clark. Never has Dean said that Clark couldn't win, nor has he said that about any candidate.

Yet Clark has no problem saying Dean will lose in 2004 if he wins the nomination. REAL solid.

[wndycty]

39. Hmmmm

Called him a Republican "up until 25 days ago" LIE!!!

Said he supported the war. LIE!!!

Don't forget this was after he publicly courted Clark for VP.

[Field Of Dreams]

42. Said he supported IWR during his speech at the...

Florida Democratic Convention. Dean used Clark's name in his speech in referring to this.

So much for being a unifying force.

[wndycty]

46. But its only disrespectful when someone other than Dean. . .

. . .says it.

[Bread and Circus]

113. Only Dean can criticize other dems and get away with it...

He is the messiah and the quicker we learn about it the better.

--- :shrug: ---

I say good for Clark. It isn't bashing when he says our nominee
has to have FP XP, it's the goddammed truth.

We need more people telling it like it is around here.

[ResistTheCoup]

64. Read what he said

What bashing? He said a Dean/Clark ticket could not win.

Why would someone running for President be telling everyone he's considering a VP slot? Has Dean announced his willingness to be anyone's VP? Of course not. They don't expect him to say he's willing to serve as VP now because he's running for President. If the time comes he may very well consider it but I certainly wouldn't expect him to announce it before even one vote is cast.

This Dean/Clark thing is like a sop the Dean supporters throw out. Clark can't win but he'd be a great VP. Yeah...that's the ticket - a Dean/Clark ticket! The dream team!

Clark's telling people they're going to have to choose between him on the head of the ticket or choose someone else. He's not campaigning as VP for Dean or anyone else. What's so hard to understand about that and how is that offensive to Dean supporters? It's primary politics.

[Woodstock]

72. No, he implied Dean could not win

"I don't think the Democratic Party can win without carrying a heavy experience in national security affairs into the campaign," he told Salon in a phone interview last week. "And that experience can't be in a vice president."


This clearly sounds to me like he's saying:

1) Dean cannot win
2) even with Clark as VP

Lest you accuse me of being a Deanie who just doesn't get it, the author of the article also interpreted this statement the same way. Hence the title: "Clark: Howard Dean Can't Win."


To me, publicly implying a Democrat can't win is a no-no. I'm not aware Dean has said another candidate can't win. Also, I'm not aware that Dean has ever definitively ruled out being someone's VP. They all, of course, skirt around it, because, as you say, they want to be president and don't want to entertain the VP question at this point.

This isn't me saying "Dean is perfect" either - he's said some really stupid things about the other candidates I wish he hadn't said, too. I'd like them all to really THINK before they say stuff like this. And I'd like NONE of them to EVER say one of them can't win.

[SahaleArm]

81. Better - It precludes every candidate except maybe Kerry

That's called distinguishing yourself, like Dean calling everyone Bushlite or Cockroaches...

[ResistTheCoup]

88. Or accusing someone of being a Republican until

25 days ago.

[jumptheshadow]

98. Clark's being a pragmatist

He's stating his viewpoint *before* the primaries are run.

He happens to be correct. Bush will run on national security issues, the media will glom on to it, and the shallow public will fall for it.

Be forewarned. We're going to have a hard time fighting fire with a candidate covered in turpentine.

It's up to all reasonable Democrats now to carefully consider their choices for the nomination. While doing that they may express concerns or ask questions. It's part of the Democratic process. To think otherwise is to be naive or fascistic.

[in_cog_ni_to]

99. delete........................n/t

[Rose Siding]

24. Interesting- same mssg as the attack ad

In debates, Dean says something like "any one of us up here would be a better president than George Bush"

It's magnanamous, costs nothing and puts us in a position of strength.

[Woodstock]

28. I would hope they'd all say this

Anything less is shooting ourselves in the foot. These guys just keep letting me down with this inter-party bashing crap. Discuss issue differences, but enough with the Rove fodder.

[MontecitoDem]

29. They've all said that!

Sometimes I think Dean supporters tune out everything but their own candidate.

[ResistTheCoup]

86. You got that right

Everything is about Dean. If Clark emphatically states that he's running for President and not VP - he's out to sabotage Dean.

Why isn't Dean so magnanimous as to announce he'd be willing to run as Clark's VP? Well, of course, everyone knows he's running for President!

[Jerseycoa]

51. You're confusing me

What do you mean by this?

>same mssg as the attack ad


:dem:

[Clark Can WIN]

33. What did they expect him to say?

Have any of the candidates running said "yes I think I'd make a great Vice President"

??????????

:eyes:

[Adjoran]

40. Dean-Clark "dream ticket" was always a pipe dream

Same thing for Clark-Dean. Neither man brings the other what he really needs from his VP candidate: a key state.

The nominee will have to hold all our 2000 states, and try to peel off a close state or two that we lost. The VP choice will reflect that. It could be Gephardt for Missouri, Bayh for Indiana, Graham for Florida, or maybe Bill Richardson, who would nail down New Mexico and help in Colorado, Arizona, Nevada, and Florida.

Neither Dean nor Clark will be the Vice Presidential nominee, no matter who wins the top slot.

[DFLforever]

45. To be honest

I have heard people who know both men say that they couldn't conceive of Dean and Clark on the same ticket...they both have such formidable egos. Of course, anything is possible in politics.

[HoosierClarkie]

49. He always said he was running for President! n/t

[Kanola]

52. Well, Clark just blew it for me

He promised not to put down other candidates. Saying that Dean cannot win is the biggest bash of all.

[wndycty]

53. Will you vote for him if it is Clark v. Bush. . .

. . .that is all I want and need to know.

[KittyWampus]

56. Where Did Clark Say Specifically "Dean Can't Win"

Oh, That's right... HE DIDN'T.

And this supersensitive CRAP from Dean supporters is ridiculous.

If you call this an "attack" then you are outrageously thin skinned.

[ResistTheCoup]

69. So what? You don't want him on your VP list?

You're won't vote for him if he gets the nomination?

Clark has every right to say that a Dean/Clark ticket won't win if he has no intention of running as VP right now.

Has Dean volunteered to serve as Clark's VP? No? Why does he hate America?

:eyes:

[eileen_d]

83. Lucky for you, Clark never said Dean can't win.

Salon implies that Clark said this, but it's not what Clark said. Reading the article makes this clear.

[in_cog_ni_to]

101. delete..........n/t

[milkyway]

57. Bob Graham will be Dean's V.P. He's a better choice for Dean...

than Wes Clark is. Dean needs someone with inside-the-Beltway experience. In a post-9/11 America, the outsider Dean will have a tougher time winning if he's paired up with another outsider. As a former chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Graham has a deep understanding of the real dangers we face (not the imaginary ones like Saddam). He can also go a long way in delivering Florida. His maturity, experience, and serious manner can do for Dean what Cheney did for Bush in 2000. Some voters in 2000 were uncomfortable with Bush's inexperience and youth, but figured he had Cheney to rely on if he needed to do so.

Also, I think it would be against Clark's nature to be V.P. He wants to lead. He would be much better suited for:
-- Secretary of Defense
-- possibly Secretary of State. He likes being involved in international diplomacy. This would allow Dean to offer Collin Powell the Secretary of Defense position, which would be a very popular idea. Powell couldn't be Sec. of State. He'd have to tell other nations to forget everything he said over the last four years, that he was just lying for Bush.
ÐÐDirector of Homeland Security. I'd feel a lot safer here in NYC if Wes Clark was in charge instead of clueless Tom Ridge.

BTW, I'm a Dean supporter, and would be a Clark supporter if Dean weren't in the race.

[Jerseycoa]

62. You are so right

Bob Graham would make an excellent VP for Dean and much better than Clark for Dean. Clark is a leader and would not make a good VP. He would make a good President, which is why he is my choice.

:dem:

[ResistTheCoup]

74. Yeah, the Clark as Dean's VP sop didn't fly...

let's move on to how he'd be better suited for Secretary of Defense or Secretary of State. Yeah, that's it. Sure, we'll have room for Clark somewhere in a Dean cabinet...

:eyes:

The man is running for President. Not as Dean's VP or as Secretary of State. Jeez people. Let's have a nomination before we decide what color shoes Dean will wear to the inaugural or where will the other peon candidates fit into his cabinet. It's very patronizing.

BTW - thank you (sincerely) for saying you would support Clark if Dean weren't in the race. I would do the same for Dean if Clark weren't in the race as well.

[killbotfactory]

58. That's pretty shitty

For a guy who took the high road so many times...

Oh well, screw him.

[KittyWampus]

59. Yeah, Unlike Dean Who Started Out As A Dirty Dealer

and pretty much kept it up...

[killbotfactory]

71. Dean never called anybody unelectable..

Not even the "bushlites"

[eileen_d]

78. Neither did Clark.

Did you read the whole article? Those words do not come out of his mouth.

[Woodstock]

82. Here is where he said it

"I don't think the Democratic Party can win without carrying a heavy experience in national security affairs into the campaign," he told Salon in a phone interview last week. "And that experience can't be in a vice president."

He's saying a Democratic presidential candidate without "heavy experience in national security affairs" can't win - that rules out several of the candidates.

[eileen_d]

84. Clark is playing up his strengths vis-a-vis the others.

You know, like Dean does when he talks about opposing the Iraq war. It's called "campaigning for president."

Clark never mentions a candidate by name. If he had said "Dean can't win" I would call this a bash. But Clark has more class.

[JI7]

93. true, playing up positives

to differentiate and give reason to vote for them rather than others.

[in_cog_ni_to]

102. delete...............n/t

[jmaier]

65. Do you think we could be bothered

to actually READ the articles that are cited here before making ridiculous FINAL and conclusive decisions about what was allegedly said. IGNORE the headlines posted here and generally regard any summaries as suspect until you check things out for yourself.

Much of the flaming that occurs here is because 1) every is RIDICULOUSLY thin-skinned about their candidate, 2) too damn lazy to check into the details for themselves and/or 3) completely disinterested in the facts and simply ready to bash the opponent in a completely freeperish fashion.

[1songbird]

75. It seems to me after reading the article that the reporter took some

creative license. It appears that Dean's name specifically was superimposed by the reporter.

[ResistTheCoup]

87. Thank you!

Damn good post!

:)

[eileen_d]

77. Clark did not say the words "Howard Dean Can't Win"

Anybody who sees this in b/w terms of "Clark bashing Dean" needs to go back to reading comprehension. I imagine people who have been looking for reasons to reject Clark, or who already have some other axe to grind, did not even bother to read the article and took this as an opportunity to jump on the candidate-bashing bandwagon themselves.

In this article, Clark is making a case for why he is the better candidate for president. This is what people that run for president do -- believe it or not, they're not all in it to cede the ultimate authority to Howard Dean. Clark is in it to win it, and if he didn't point out his unique qualifications for the job, he'd be a fool.

*Nowhere* in this article does Clark specifically rule out a VP slot, but there isn't a single reason why he should start bucking for VP at this point. He is running for president -- and I can't believe I should have to reiterate that, because it's a pretty simple concept.

[unfrigginreal]

85. We've all read it

Clark, who says that he's uniquely qualified to go "toe-to-toe" with President Bush on security issues in 2004, said that whether he's on the ticket or not, the Democrats can't win with Dean as their presidential candidate.

Now, if you are claiming that Salon is libelling Clark, then your issue is with them not us. This article will be read by millions that aren't going to question the veracity of the reporting.

[eileen_d]

89. I don't think Salon is libeling Clark. But I still think

that Clark is not bashing Dean, as some people who now apparently would like to "screw Clark" are quick to judge. And BTW, I don't believe that everyone on this thread read the entire article.

If you don't like the message that is conveyed in this article, how about telling me what's wrong with it?

[FrenchieCat]

92. Not only that....

but the Clark writers in the Clark campaign are getting letters back from those we wrote to saying that They are voting for Dean because they have been told that Clark will be the VP. So we are copying this article and sending it out back to them.

I believe that the Dean campaign has been spreading that rumor around...and it needs to stop. NOW!

[in_cog_ni_to]

103. It's pathetic

that someone would support a candidate who they think can win only by having Clark on the ticket as VP. If they want Clark so bad, they need to vote for him in the primary. :grr: For the Dean supporters to spread that rumor....to get votes for Dean is sad. It says they need Clark on the ticket to win..and they know it. JMCPO

[sandnsea]

91. Wow, this could be a Dean-Kerry thread!!!

Switch the names, same banter. Why can't people see.

[oasis]

119. The DU echo chamber with the same chorus of "One note Johnny" detractors.

[CWebster]

96. Keep the Democrats divided

and laugh while the royal throne is regilded.

Like taking candy from a baby.

[webkev]

100. Clark will not be VP.. no chance , no way, not happening

so stop saying it..

Dean is the antiwar candidate.. Clark is the candidate who can say the war was fought very badly was totally unjust and unnecessary

I'd go for a Clark/Dean ticket..

but the other way can't happen, will not happen and would have no affect anyway,,

[oasis]

104. kick

[Patriot_Spear]

109. '...Reign in hell rather than serve in heaven', eh?

Sounds like a military primadonna to me.

[ResistTheCoup]

114. Why hasn't Dean announced he's willing to run as Clark's VP?

Sounds like a civilian primadonna.

[Patriot_Spear]

116. LMAO- ask me that when you move out of fourth place...

Sorry, your question is a bit premature, don't you think?

Really, I like Clark- I just prefer Dean.

[ResistTheCoup]

122. Whoops - sorry to step on the 'inevitability' factor

Dean's already been annointed - time for him to start picking out his cabinet. Yeah, you should be LYAO. :eyes:

Fourth place? In what universe?

BTW - I really like Dean, I just prefer Clark.

[robbedvoter]

110. Here's my favorite part:"You cannot lie" Wow! refreshing!

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/12/15/clark/index_np.html
Speaking by cellphone as he drove from the Little Rock airport to his Arkansas home, he criticized Dean for an answer he gave at the Democratic debate in New Hampshire on Dec. 9 to a question about whether it was ever acceptable for a president to lie to the American public. (Dean, who was clearly taken aback by the question, had answered: "I can't think of any circumstances, with the possible exception of some national security matter that would -- if some piece of information were put out that would endanger American lives or some circumstances under which people's lives would be in danger or something of that sort.")

"I don't believe you should lie in foreign affairs," Clark said. "You can't lie as a government. You can refuse to answer a question. You can go to the press privately and say please don't print this for national security reasons. You cannot lie.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

115. He said this a few weeks ago

Right? I believe his exact words were that a VP slot on a ticket with Dean wasn't "in the cards".

[Myra]

117. General Clark shouldn't play second fiddle to anyone.

That would be a real waste.

[alcuno]

121. You're right. Better for him to fade into the land of obscurity as

a businessman or CNN talk show host. I love Clark and believe that he would do what is best for the country; personal gain be damned.

[ResistTheCoup]

123. He is doing what's best for the country. He's running for President.

Has Dean announced his intentions to serve as anyone's VP? Of course not, he's running for President.

All these hurt feelings about Clark not being happy to accept a VP slot are very presumptuous and duplicitous.

[alcuno]

124. I think Dean would do it. The reason Clark responded was

because he was asked. I fully support Clark running for president and have donated to both his campaign and Dean's. I don't know whose feelings are hurt and I don't much care. I want people who are willing to put the country first.

[John_H]

120. Dean cant win no matter who he runs with

n/t

[ecstatic]

125. What the heck? Clark has absolutely NO EXPERIENCE

in holding public office. Who does he think he is, anyway? "If I'm not President then I can't be anything else..." Give me a break! :nopity: