Aside from Liberman, who is the most conservative candidate?

[_Jumper_]

And do you consider this person "Republican-lite"?

[Wetzelbill]

1. Definitely Dean, Clark gives him a go though

no, not Republican light though.

[blm]

2. Definitely Dean.

No contest.

[MuseRider]

3. I agree

Dean.

[Darranar]

4. Dean...

followed by Clark.

[_Jumper_]

5. Why Clark?

?

[Darranar]

8. I switched them - edited...

Dean is more conservative then Clark, though not by much.

Well, Clark voted for Reagan, has ties to PNAC, was only recently a Democrat...

[chimpymustgo]

6. Dean. Clark is quite liberal.

nt

[boxster]

Dean, especially on the fiscal issues. Still not Republican-lite.

I'm frankly a little surprised that the fact that he's fiscally conservative doesn't generate more discussion on DU.

[JohnKleeb]

10. As a proud tax n spend liberal I have to agree

I dont fault Dean for it, but I am not just a social liberal but an economic one as well. So I think I may agree with the concenus here and say Dean.

[_Jumper_]

13. John, I didn't mention Dean

Check your inbox.;)

[JohnKleeb]

I know you didnt

I was just saying, I dont fault or hate him for being this but I am not only a social liberal like most dems but also economically liberal.

[boxster]

15. Re: tax and spend....

That's always been my question - where else are we going to get the money to fund social security, Medicare, etc. if not from taxes??

Oh, I guess we could steal oil from another country.

Sell arms for hostages.

Stuff like that.

}(

[JohnKleeb]

17. heh

I jokingly say that, it would be dumb of me to say that if I were a politican but I make no secret, I am a liberal not just socially but economically as well.

[boxster]

23. No kidding.

It's amazing how much political damage three little words have caused us in the past. I'm not sure which is worse: "tax-and-spend" or "liberal"!

;-)

[JohnKleeb]

26. They all go along

That tax n spender Mr. Roosevelt really helped my grandparents and their families join the party.

[K-W]

18. Yep

I challenge anyone who claims to be socially liberal to defend being a fiscal conservative. The two are inherently in conflict.

[JohnKleeb]

21. I dont have a problem with it

But lets say I like being liberal all around.

[GreenArrow]

33. I love hearing someone actually say that!

"Inherently in conflict." Completely true.

[Darranar]

25. Being fiscally conservative...

does not mean that you are an economic conservative, it simply means that you avoid deficits and conserve money.

I'm not saying that Dean is NOT economically conservative, however. I am just saying that one does not necessarily mean the other.

I'm pretty much a fiscal conservative myself (spending needs to be cut in several areas, such as defense, and I think that many government programs could be made less costly without reducing their effectiveness) but I'm also a semi-socialist.

On edit: Additionally, the quote many cite to prove Dean's economic conservatism, where he said that he was more fiscally conservative then Bush, really means little. Bush is about as fiscally conservative as he is pacifistic.

[JohnKleeb]

28. Dar I dont know much

So :shrug:
Thanks though

[Bombtrack]

36. No it doesn't, fiscally RESPONSIBLE is what you described

Dean isn't a fiscal conservative, or a straight-talker, both self-proclamations he's given himself, like "having soul".

Conservatism has come to be accepted in the American diction, as it pertains to the economy(Fiscal: of or relating to taxation, public revenues, or public debt) is what someone of the Milton-Friedman theory and practice of economics, adopted as Reaganomics or supply-side.

Dean, running on a platform of across the board tax increases and hundreds of billions in additional spending, is not even close to that realm, not that it would be a wonderful thing for a DEMOCRAT to adhere to, but he shouldn't mislead people as one of his many "I'm electable because..." cop-outs

[Closer]

7. Clark

Any political pundit will tell you that.


He and Lieberman are the DLC candidates.


Clark's a moderate Republican at best.

[_Jumper_]

9. Why Clark?

On what issues is he conservative?

[K-W]

11. Moderate Republican?

How so? Being a DLC candidate isnt really an issue here. Dean is hated by the DLC atm, but Dean is a very centrist Democrat. Just because the DLC likes a candidate doesnt mean that candidate is neccessarily the most conservative. It means that for thier political ends theyve decided to back that candidate.

Im curious how you classify Clark as a republican.

[boxster]

12. Not if you look at his stances on the issues.

His views are liberal - that's pretty obvious if you look at his views on the issues and his plans for the future.

Unless, of course, you just don't believe him at his word. Not that you'd be the first.

[blm]

14. Pundits lie for Bush.

That's why they all have been selling Dean as a liberal for a year now.

[Wetzelbill]

20. thank you very much for saying that

[corporatewhore]

16. Howard"nra death penalty" Dean or Wesley "dlc" Clark

but they pretty much are all conservatives except for kucinich and shapton who i find are the most sane cannidates

[curse10]

19. Dean

by far.

[GreenArrow]

22. In this climate, a "centrist" is actually a "conservative"

Dean or Edwards, probably, with Clark in the immediate vicinity.

[bobbieinok]

24. Gore

I always found it very bizarre how Gore was supposedly so liberal.

In the 88 dem race he was BY FAR the most conservative candidate.

And his wife was one of the 2 congressional wives who campaigned hard to label records according to acceptability of lyrics.

[K-W]

30. be careful

Labeling content on albums isnt really a good indicator of overall political beliefs. You can be a very very liberal person but just think that obscene lyrics are a problem. Dont point at one issue like that, it cheapens your argument.

[bobbieinok]

39. I realize that

They were loudly attacked by the 'left' for doing this.

The whole thing (from today's knowlege) was probably some sort of political/media try-out of sliming everyone in sight.

[AntiCoup2K4]

27. Kucinich!

Nah... just kidding :evilgrin: (though there is the pro-life voting record)

But someone had to keep it from becoming yet another Deanbashfest.

Actually Gephardt has helped Junior pass much of his agenda through congress. Maybe he should get the Conservative tag?

[maddezmom]

31. LOL

ya had me there for a minute.

[maddezmom]

29. Dean

maybe then Edwards and Clark

on edit: I consider none of them repug-lite

[La Lioness Priyanka]

32. clark

he was a republican until a few months ago ...and i think deans idea of making affirmative action class based and not race based is far more progressive than its current status

[MariaS]

38. Clark on being a liberal

This is a partial post of the transcript from the Sept. 17 episode of Real Time with Bill Maher.

I want to read you a quote, because I’m not saying whether you’re going to get into this or not, but Howard Dean, who is apparently the front runner now for the Democrats, he said last week, he said, “In Vermont, politics is much further to the left.” He said, “A Vermont centrist is an American liberal.”

And then his (Howard Dean's)campaign manager came out and said, “That’s not an admission he’s a liberal.” Which, quite frankly, pissed me off. Because somehow they hijacked that word, “liberal.”

Now, you’re a Democrat. You said that last week.

CLARK: Absolutely.

MAHER: Okay. I’m just – I’m just wondering, of all the people who has the credentials to say, “liberal” is not a bad word, I’m wondering if I could get you to say that.

CLARK: Well, I’ll say it right now.

MAHER: Good for you.

CLARK: We live in a liberal democracy.

MAHER: Right.

CLARK: That’s what we created in this country. That’s our—

MAHER: That’s right. Thank you.

CLARK: That’s in our Constitution. Let me follow on this, okay? I think we should be very clear on this. You know, this country was founded on the principals of the Enlightenment.

MAHER: Right.

CLARK: It was the idea that people could talk, reason, have dialogue, discuss the issues. It wasn’t founded on the idea that someone would get stuck by a divine inspiration and know everything right from wrong. I mean, people who founded this country had religion, they had strong beliefs, but they believed in reason, in dialogue, in civil discourse. We can’t lose that in this country. We’ve got to get it back.

MAHER: Thank you.

[boxster]

34. _Jumper_ - why don't you make this a poll?

I think it's a good question and the results are quite interesting so far. The results would obviously be easier to review at a glance in a poll.

[_Jumper_]

35. I don't have a star yet

I will be donating soon, though.

If you wish you can post a poll about this and I will request that the moderators lock this thread.

[boxster]

40. Will do. Check GD shortly.

Thanks!

[_Jumper_]

41. np

n/t

[West Coast Democrat]

37. I don't know. Gephardt? Dean?

both have their conservative stances on certain things

[Jerseycoa]

42. Clark is left of everybody but Kucinich & Sharpton

Dean is the most conservative after Lieberman. I consider Dean more of a Rockefeller Republican than a liberal.

The disbelievers on his liberalism should read Clark's policies. You may be surprised if you are at all openminded.

[Freddie Stubbs]

43. Edwards had a more conservative voting record that Lieberman last year

And Kerry's was just as liberal.

[boxster]

44. Link to a poll on this issue here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=916742