I Will *Not* Vote for Holy Joe

[Champion Jack]

Sorry,
If that's what it comes down to for a dem candidate....
Forget it.

I ain't votin' for Holy Joe

No way Jose

[TrueAmerican]

1. Vote for Joe is a vote for Bush

The same corporations have their hooks in both.

[Syrinx]

2. I don't like him either

But I'll damn sure vote for him if he is the Democratic nominee. And you can take that to the bank. ;)

[Raenelle]

3. Me neither, and until that Iraq vote, I was a Yellow Dog Dem

n/t

[Cha]

4. Someone on Mike Malloy just said the same thing after

seeing him on c-span touting the quagmire over in Iraq!

This guy said.."And I'm a voter, too!" "But I will sit home before I vote for holyjoe"

I don't think we need to worry, though. There's too many other good Dem candidates who will get the nomination over lieberman.

:kick:

[Dover]

5. If this is primarily in response to Lieb's statement in support of the war

today, you should know that he is hardly the only Dem who holds that position. In fact it is the primary position of the Dem leadership.
That's why they signed the War Resolution last year. They weren't duped into it. And that's why even Clinton has not spoken out against this war.

So if you have a problem with Joe's statement today, then you have a problem with a foreign policy that has been in place since the ouster of the Shah of Iran and is still endorsed by the main Dem AND Rep establishment. So focus on the foreign policy issue when determing who you'll vote for, if this is your main point of contention.

[Jacobin]

8. You have to admit that containment was the order of the day

until the neo cons and the coup decided to push it.

[unfrigginreal]

11. There is no excuse for his position!

Name one other Democratic candidate that has called this a just war. You say that the candidates weren't duped into the war, so I guess you believe that the country wasn't either, which is bullshit!

Joe absolutely does not belong in our party anymore, and I'm a moderate that would vote for a 3rd party before I voted for that scumbag.

[Dover]

31. READ THIS. Lieberman represents the Dem establishment position.

Lieberman, who strongly supported the war, said, "Some in my party threaten to send a message that they don't know a just war when they see it, and, more broadly, are not prepared to use our military strength to protect our security and the cause of freedom."

Seeking to emerge from the pack of nine Democratic contenders, Lieberman of Connecticut said he felt he represented his party's "mainstream position," saying "being strong on defense is part of what it means to be a Democrat."


http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=3172452

[RapidCreek]

36. He represent YOUR dem establishment...not mine

Have a nice day!

RC

[Dover]

37. I wasn't AGREEING with that statement ......silly.

I was pointing out that Joe's support of this "just war" is what our mainstream Dem leadership supports too.

[Walt Starr]

6. Holier than thou Joe is a puke bucket candidate

I will hold my nose and bring a puke bucket, but will vote for him anyway if he's nominated.

[newsguyatl]

7. just remember this

a vote for LIEberman will do far more harm to the democratic party (and arguably the country) than 4 more years of bush...

why do i say that? bush cabal would self destruct...and while that was happening, at least the dem party could strengthen itself... with joe in office (which by the way could NEVER happen) the democratic party would be setting itself back years... and the repubs would be on the rebound for '08

[jiacinto]

16. I disagree

There are millions of Americans who have a lot to lose with a second Bush adminsitration, specifically the poor and minorities. I don't like Lieberman either, but Bush will continue his assulat on civil rights and programs like Headstart will be eliminated completely.

Another Supreme Court justice will resign. Another vote against the issues we all care about. Four more years of John Ashcroft et al.

Just realize that by re-electing Bush you are going to be hurting significant parts of our base. Parts of our base that stand to lose a lot.

A vote against Lieberman, should he become the nominee, is against them.

And if you do go Green or some other third party, when Bush does crappy things that piss us all off in the next four years, please don't bitch as you will have helped make it possible.

[redeye]

39. A vote for Lieberman...

...is a vote against atheists. I'm sorry, but I vote for my interests.

[Cronus Protagonist]

9. I'm with you. I'll abandon his campaign.

(corrected the subject line to better reflect my intentions)

As a VP, I don't have much of a problem with him, but as POTUS, he'll be a lightening rod for extremist Jew hating muslims the world over. Yes, many people in the US think Bush would be better than Holy Joe, as do many moderates who can see how polarizing his presidency would be on the international stage.

And the Republicans know this, that's why they want Joe to win the candidacy, because he'll lose the election - here's the choice: a Jewish Bush-lite or Protestant Bush the Genuine Article? It's a no brainer.

So if Joe gets the nomination, I'll be looking to boost alternative candidates and/or just give up on the presidency and make sure the Senate and House are stacked against Bush when he wins in 2004, because if Joe is the nominee, he can't and won't win even if he had a religious conversion and became a born-again Jews for Jesus devotee.

Bottom line is if Joe gets the nod, the presidency is already lost. That's why I'm doing everything in my power to ensure that he doesn't get chosen and we have a decent candidate in his place.

Screw this "anyone but Bush" shit, the slogan should be "any Democratic candidate but Holy Joe" - that would be much more practical.


Click Here For Hard Hitting Buttons — Visit The Cronus Connection

[Isere]

12. Cronus, you need to change your logo

You are anything but "United Against the Bush Regime."

Lieberman isn't my first choice, but you can be damn sure I'll work my little arse off for him should he be the nominee.

Drawing a line in the sand isn't helpful. We need to keep our eyes on the prize and the prize is the end of Republican Rule.

[Cronus Protagonist]

14. Logo not changing

Being United against Bush REQUIRES that Lieberman not be the nominee. If Lieberman is the nominee, Bush will win. It's that simple.


Click Here For Hard Hitting Buttons — Visit The Cronus Connection

[jonnyblitz]

10. Damn even I will vote for him if my alternative is Bush.

The other DEM candidates are too right wing for me also so whats the freakin difference. I am not bitchin its just a fact.

[Avalux]

13. Me Neither - NO Way

And - if it came down to deciding between him or chimpy - don't know what I'd do. Think I would have to leave the country.

[poskonig]

15. Lieberman is a new kind of Democrat! You should vote for him!

[jiacinto]

17. That site is so sophomoric

I wonder why I even bother. The facts matter little when it comes to Lieberman.

[chaumont58]

28. Holy Joe can open his campaign speeches with:

I represent the Republican wing of the Democratic party!

[poskonig]

29. hahahaha!

Damn right! :P

[whoYaCallinAlib]

18. Honestly, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

I don't see anyway Joe can take the nomination.

[PaDUer]

20. I concur

eom

[PaDUer]

19. I don't support

him either...as far as I'm concerned, he's two-faced.

[jiacinto]

21. You know what I find annoying

People ignore the facts when it comes to Lieberman. And then when presented those facts they continue to repeat the same lies even if they know they are false.

I am not a Lieberman supporter and don't approve of all of his actions. But to equate him with Bush or any Republican is to be dishonest. It is downright lying.

But unfortunately, when it comes to Lieberman, the facts and the truth matter little. The lies and the same old dishonest rumors are what wins.

[Iverson]

41. right on, baby.

"But to equate him with Bush or any Republican is to be dishonest. It is downright lying."

And if Joseph Lieberman were exponentially further away from Republican positions, say like the Greens, it would be exponentially more dishonest to equate the two.

[Ishoutandscream]

22. Bush against Holy Joe. Yuck!!!

I would be holding my nose at the ballot box, but I would still vote for Lieberman. But man, that would be difficult.

[Champion Jack]

24. It Makes me wonder if the 2000 election would have been so close

(and Yes, I KNOW Gore won)
If Old Al had picked another running mate....

[election_2004]

23. some FACTS about Lieberman

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=94288&mesg_id=94288&page=#96367

[Isere]

25. Who says you have to LIKE him?

You have to vote for him, for God's sake!

Otherwise, you are following the path to perdition that the Naderites followed in 2000.

I don't know if Lieberman will be the nominee....probably not.... and I will not vote for him in the primary. But , folks, let's not act like followers of Saint Ralph and draw a line in the sand.

[election_2004]

38. oh, so i "HAVE TO" vote for him, do i...?

Don't you dare tell me that I "have to" vote for someone...especially if it's a political whore like Willie Tanner.

[redeye]

40. Who cares what Nader thinks?

I acre what I think. And I think that as long as atheists continue to vote for the Democratic party even though when it comes to atheists' rights and separation of church and state there is only one Republicratic party, there will continue to be fundie presidents and myriad elected officials who say that this is a christian nation.

[aquart]

26. It's okay, honey. You don't have to.

That's why all those other guys will be on the ballot.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

27. niether will i!...no phucking way!!!!

[Az]

30. I cannot vote for Joe

If the choice has come to between Joe and Bush then we have lost. The DLC has sucked the life out of the left and the only thing that can possibly wake the left up is the utter destruction that will follow Bush taking another 4 years.

We have two choices. Fight to take this country back to the left. Or allow the right to display just how horrid they truly are. Joe is just a further slide to the right. Slower than George and therefor more dangerous. When you drop a frog in boiling water it leaps back out. When you put the frog in and then bring it to a boil it never realises it and dies. Joe is the slow boil, George is a sudden wakeup call.

[Dover]

32. Please read this.......

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=3172452

Focusing your disapproval on Lieberman rather than the foreign policy that he and many other Dems support is misspent and misdirected energy.

He Said:

Lieberman, who strongly supported the war, said, "Some in my party threaten to send a message that they don't know a just war when they see it, and, more broadly, are not prepared to use our military strength to protect our security and the cause of freedom."

Seeking to emerge from the pack of nine Democratic contenders, Lieberman of Connecticut said he felt he represented his party's "mainstream position," saying "being strong on defense is part of what it means to be a Democrat."

[ReadTomPaine]

33. The Problem with Joe Lieberman..

Is not just that he cannot win under the current circumstances, but what would happen after the election should he manage to pull off a victory against all odds. He only seems to come to life and display heartfelt enthusiasm when he discusses censoring ‘inappropriate’ music or most recently when attacking fellow democrats. Have any of you heard him criticize the administration in the same terms he does his fellow party members? His most recent contribution to our country has been the Department of Homeland Security, the creation of which he sponsored before the current administration ran with the idea. It amazes me that while he considers himself a representative of the Democratic Party, he seems to hold so few of its historic values.

Perhaps the strategy is to adopt a “Neodemocrat” platform in the same fashion as his closest ideological allies. In many ways, he resembles GWB in his inarticulate manner of speech (his dull edge whine-toned voice is virtually impossible to listen to for more than 10 minutes without setting one’s hair on end) and in the way he represents an insular candidate pushed onto the electorate from the upper echelon party establishment.

Lieberman doesn’t have a distinguished military career like Kerry or Clark, he doesn’t have the ability to inspire voters like Dean or Kucinich, he hasn’t shown any particular gift for debate like longshot Sharpton (who amazingly holds his own in such hostile territory as CNN’s Crossfire, where Lieberman has refused to appear) and he has no history of business or financial achievement. At best, he represents about 10-20% from the middle to middle right of the Democratic Party. He in fact doesn’t seem to have any real skills at all, other than having a good set of well placed friends and excellent timing regarding when to plant a knife. Again, this all smacks of GWB, opening the very real possibility that he will be precisely as disastrous for the left as GWB is turning out to be for the right. Perhaps even worse as he doesn’t have the brain trust of a Karl Rove or the party faithful lined up behind him to support his stance no matter what does or says. The DLC is well advised to drop their leading support for him over candidates like Kerry, the most viable DLC-flavored Democrat or perhaps Dean, the strongest outside candidate currently.

If Lieberman got the nomination and lost, it would be disastrous, but if he wins the presidency it might very well be worse for the Democratic Party in the long run. Without a strong constituency to support him or the skill to stand on his own, Republicans would sense his weakness and the attacks from the right would be merciless and unending. Without Bill Clinton’s extraordinary intelligence and savvy, these would savage a Lieberman White House and obscure the failures of the Bush administration, attaching the current economic woes to the Democrats, turning them into a permanent minority. Keep in mind in this political environment that a strong candidacy needs a good candidate *and* the support of the party faithful not just to win, but to *keep* the presidency.

[FubarFly]

34. Lieberman has no shot of winning and he knows it.

The DLC is using Lieberman to take the wind out of Howard Dean's sails.
They are afraid to let the party be defined as anti-war. They see the massive surge of enraged grassroot support that Dean enjoys as a very threat to their existence. Well too bad.

If they continue their campaign to destroy Dean, they will mortally divide the Democratic Party and destroy themselves in the process. What the DLC needs to realize is that their best chance for survival is to run the primaries by relentlessly, positively focusing on the issues. Here is what bush* has done, and here is how we will do it better. Insteading of rehashing lame defenses for the obviously erroneous war vote, give us hope for future diplomacy, give us a carefully reasoned exit strategy, tell us how they are going to get our troops home. That way no matter which of the candidates gets the nod, a united Democratic Party will stand behind them.

I was leaning towards Howard Dean before, but this recent rash of irrational anti-Dean hysteria cinches it for me. I am willing to work with the DLC, but they have to compromise for me- I won't let it be the other way around. The support and passion that Dr. Dean has earned is real. Ignore the voice of real Americans at your own peril.

[LeftCoast]

35. ABB