Poll: Evolution or Virgin Birth?

[BurtWorm]

What do you believe in?

[tarkus]

1. This is all going to end badly, I can feel it. N/T

[Az]

2. Evolution does not prepose to answer what the origin of life was

That is the study of abiogenesis. Different field entirely.

[BurtWorm]

4. This is in reference to Nicholas Kristoff's column today

in which he notes that more than 80% of Americans believe in the virgin birth, and between 20 and 25% believe in evolution.

[Az]

6. Your trying to break my heart

aren't you?

[BurtWorm]

7. I thought I would spread a little broken heartedness around

I've been wondering if there's anyway to reverse that trend.

[Az]

9. I have to say

I am hyper skeptical of that number. That would mean all the atheists, Jews, Muslems, Buddhists, Taoists, and assorted other nonchristian belief systems decided they believe in the immaculate conception.

[BurtWorm]

11. Kristoff says an astounding 40+% of *non*-Christian Americans

believe in the Virgin birth of Jesus!

[Az]

13. Sounds like standard crud

It is a standard practice for many religions not to remove names from their rosters in order to inflate their numbers. Da Bunny (fiancee) is a life long atheist yet the church her mother tried to get her to attend still counts her as a member.

There was some guy recently that was sueing the Catholic church (not sex related) because they would not take his name off their roster. He even tried to get excommunicated by walking into a service and cursing the name of god.

I don't think it is possible to get an honest statistic of religion in America. Too many fingers trying to spin the numbers.

[BurtWorm]

15. Yet the same questions get very different responses in Europe

and other industrialized nations, and their responses are more like each others. According to Kristoff. It does seem incredibly high. You also have to wonder if people really understand what they're being asked. Do they think the question is, "Are you a Christian?" or "Do you believe God shtupped Mary?"

[KCDem]

3. whereas I don't believe in virgin birth,

I also don't think that one can't believe in both virgin birth and evolution. Evolution happens, God knocks up some chick, etc. Happens all the time.

[BurtWorm]

5. Which is why the both and neither options are there.

[TiredTexan]

8. Did you know that a virgin birth is not only possible,

but occurs every so often naturally in nature? I'm not kidding. Two eggs can combine under certain circumstances and fertilize each other. It always results in a female child with identical DNA as the mother. A twin, so to speak. It occurs naturally once in several million births.

I read this in Scientific American several years ago. Really.


No virgin births for males, though.

[BurtWorm]

10. I don't believe it.

;)

[TiredTexan]

16. The process is called parthenogenesis, but I could not find

the specific Scientific American article I was looking for. In these articles, they speak to a single egg dividing, not an egg fertilizing another. The article I read some time ago talked about how they could get one egg to fertilize another in certain lab conditions.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1676240.stm

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/05/05/tech/main552408.shtml

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1676234.stm

[KCDem]

12. do you have any links?

I've never heard of this, but it wouldn't come as a complete surprise.

I remember being a small kid... 7 years old, I guess. I saw a tv show on how reproduction would be possible without "the nasty" happening. What a relief to a young girl who can't understand that sex might NOT suck.

[TiredTexan]

17. see my links above .....

I answered the wrong reply to my reply.

Just more proof that truth is stranger than fiction.

[pfitz59]

14. Liquid highway.....and genital contact.

Virgin impregnation can occur if ejaculate reaches the magic juice emanating from an aroused vagina. Fooling around at the "gates of pleasure" has led to virgin pregnancies. Has to be mighty strong sperm, but can happen! Of course the story of Mary is mind-control BS!

[CarlBallard]

18. I put "Both" but

I'm a little distressed by the word believe. I would say I took a leap of faith to acept the virgin birth, but I believe in evolution having seen the evidence. I'm trying to say that as a Catholic I realize that some of my faith is a bit wierd and that I couldn't prove it.

[BurtWorm]

20. I don't envy you

I would guess, correct me if I'm wrong, that you live in (at least) two worlds: one in which God has a son by a virgin and one in which that is not physically possible. One world is mental or spiritual and the other is material.

As an atheist, I live in a single, material world where many, many people call themselves Christians either because they believe in the reality of the miraculous life of Jesus Christ--that it all really happened on this same world we're all born into--or because they believe in an "alternative reality" where God, through Jesus, intervenes in human affairs.

[CarlBallard]

21. Well yes and no

Certinaly there are things that my faith tells me happened, but that when you think about them seem impossible. I don't necessaraly see the disconnect that you see. That's where faith comes in as opposed to simply beliving something because you have evidence.

I'd like to point you to this article about the late Stephen Jay Gould:

Gould himself steps outside of his domain, and at time sounds more like a theologian than a scientist. Upon assuring Jesuit scientists that scientific creationism posed no threat to evolution, he proceeded to assure them that evolution is "entirely consistent with religious belief". He goes on to say that, "Creationism does not pit science against religion ... for no such conflict exists." Is he saying that fundamentalist religions are not really religions?

Finally you said "I would guess, correct me if I'm wrong, that you live in (at least) two worlds: one in which God has a son by a virgin and one in which that is not physically possible." I would turn that around slightly. I live in a world where a virgin birth shouldn't be possible, and yet I have faith that it did.

I hope that helped you. Personally I find my faith structure bit wierd. I was talking to someone who said they knew a Muslim phrase but I don't know if it's authentic or not. Anyway it's "Pray to Allah, but tie your camel."

[BurtWorm]

22. "Pray to Allah, but tie your camel."

I like it. Reminds me of a Spanish proverb: "Take what you want," God said. "But pay for it."

Thanks for the link.

[sujan]

19. I reject the notion of Creationism, Intelligent Design and Divine

Intervention.

Evolution all the way.