A question for middle-aged single men

[Lydia Leftcoast]

To put it bluntly, where are you guys?

I know you can't all have been killed in Vietnam.

I go to public places and public events and meet lots of women and gay/married men. I volunteer for things and meet lots of women and gay/married men. I go to the gym and meet lots of women and gay/married men. I go to a very liberal church and meet lots of women and gay/married men. I take classes and meet lots of women and gay/married men. I go on hikes and meet lots of women and gay/married men. I participate in community arts groups and meet lots of women and gay/married men.

When I lived in Portland, I belonged to a group that met for weekly movies and discussions. The long-term members were all women and gay men. Straight single men would show up once and never reappear, as if to say, "I can tell right now that the love of my life isn't here. Better move on." Meanwhile, the people who stuck with the group formed some lasting friendships, which isn't the same as a relationship but is pretty damn good in its own right.

So what is it? Are you single baby boomer men hanging out in sleazy bars and complaining that all you meet is manipulative sluts? Do you imagine that the woman of your dreams will magically appear in your living room between you and your TV set? Are you hoping that she will one day walk up to you in the bait and tackle store? Are you flitting from environment to environment, looking for the woman who matches your rigid fantasy vision, without bothering to get to know anyone? Are you terrified of doing something you haven't done before, because you have a pathological fear of not being in total control of a situation?

Do you see a pattern here, guys? I've just given you a list of places that are frequented by terrific single women--bright, funny, well-maintained, some of them (not me) even domestically inclined, not a frigid virgin among them--and you're not there.

So instead of sitting around and complaining about the lack of decent women,
attend public events, volunteer for things, go to the gym, join a religious or philosophical group, take classes, go on hikes, and participate in community arts groups.

I cannot guarantee that everyone you meet will be delightful--many will not--but you do increase your odds by going where the women actually ARE.

So why aren't you there?

[tsakshaug]

1. I was briefly single

after wife 1 kicked me out. Where was I? after getting over the depression and anger a friend of mine started to set me up with her single friends. I soon met my life partner.
I did hang out at the laundrymat every Wednesday evening...where were you?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

4. Uh, did you read my message?

It tells where I was. :-)

[tsakshaug]

7. yes I did

but I was hanging out at the laundry...
we could have had fun sorting colors and the like

[southpaw]

2. Is 38 middle aged?

In any case, I don't consider myself single right now. :)

[Feanorcurufinwe]

3. Perspective is everything

I could have practically written the same thing as you, except substituting 'women' for 'men' and vice-versa.

I do try to get out there, but I often am the only single person (male or female) at many events. Most of the friendships I've developed in the last few years have been with couples. Oh well, la vie continue.

[JVS]

5. Maybe they are combing the highschools

When I was in highschool we had the damnedest time figuring out where similarly aged girls were. It was rare to find any that were not already accompanied by a guy. We gradually came to the realization that they were either with old guys with money, their highschool boyfriends, or locked in their rooms by their loving parents. If my theory is correct then the reason you fail to see these men is that they are targeting younger women.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

6. You may be right, especially in the case of the

fifty-to-sixty-year-olds who suddenly decide that they want to have children after all.

:shrug:

But that's certainly not everyone.

[Speck Tater]

8. Speaking for myself,

After finally escaping from my first wife (aka the dragon lady from hell) I met a wonderful lady, fell in love, got married and settled down to live happily ever after. A year later wife #2 left me for another guy. That just hurt way too much.

I decided that relationships just aren't worth the trouble because either A) there is something fundamentally wrong with women in general, or B) there is something fundamentally wrong with me that brings out the worst in women. Either way, I spend my time at home enjoying my hobbies, and visiting my kids and grandkids. I've never been happier since excluding "love" from my life 11 years ago. Yet, there are times when I get lonely... but that's the way it goes, I guess.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

9. Hmm, I guess that DU is another place

where they don't exist in great numbers. :shrug:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

10. "I can tell right now that the love of my life isn't here.Better move on."

Well, it depends on the activity. If they are actually attending the discussion group in hopes of meeting someone, and there's no one there they are attracted to, it's going to be pretty frustrating to keep going and getting the same result. The activity itself has to be rewarding enough to continue for itself. For instance, one of the common pieces of advice you hear is, 'take a class'. So a few years ago I was looking for places to meet people ( ok, to meet women ) and I started taking French. Well, now I speak French, sort of, but I haven't met any women. And I keep studying French because I like it, not because I think I will meet anyone in the course of my studies. Who knows, maybe that attitude will allow it to happen (if she ever shows up).

[Lydia Leftcoast]

11. Ah, but you see, by staying with the discussion group

I acquired friends with whom I did other things, like go to plays or go to the coast.

Since not everyone attended every week, the men who left after one week may have missed the week that a potential ladyfriend would have showed up.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

21. Ah, but you see, you stayed with the discussion group because

you enjoyed it, right? If you're staying in the discussion group because you hope to meet a guy, your patience may indeed end up unrewarded.

[pagerbear]

12. Can you send some of those single, avaiable gay men my way?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

14. Well, I've just told you where to look

:-)

If you're not in either Portland, Oregon or Minneapolis-St. Paul, Minnesota, you'll have to think of what the analogous places are in your own region.

[nini]

13. when you find them... would you let me know too?

I feel your pain. It's very frustrating. :cry:

[BeFree]

15. Here, right here

Since we un-attached men have to do everything for ourselves, we are busy doing just that. Look for us in the places where a wife would be doing it for us, if we had a wife. Grocery stores, shopping centers, restaraunts, etc.

Single men are either single because they want to be or because they are picky. Me? I'm miserably happy sitting here waiting for the next heartbreak to get started. Heartbreaks have been many, but at least the lead up to it was great fun. In fact, after about ten heartbreaks, they get easier and easier, and the lead ups get better and better!.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

29. Hmm, single women go to grocery stores, too

However, I'm not going to try to hit on the guy who has a wedding ring and whose shopping cart is full of Pampers. :-)

[Commendatori]

16. So, let's see...

...you don't want to go to places where we hang out, we don't want to go places where you hang out - but it's OUR fault?

Speaking only for those guys who want sex but don't want a relationship, I recommend sports bars, because women who want to meet guys go to them. I've picked up more women in the ESPN Zone than I ever would in a church or book discussion group, partly because at the sports bar I'm being myself (whereas I'm obviously not if I'm going somewhere that doesn't interest me just to meet people). There are women who adhere to your strategy but apply it on reverse, going where the men are.

I don't mean any offense, don't get me wrong, but I've read plenty of these "we want you to come to what interests us, so do it, it's your fault I'm not meeting guys" posts and have yet to hear of any men who are moved by them. Let me ask you this: do you want guys to feign interest in something you're interested in and show up to try to wrangle a fling, or would you prefer to wait longer and eventually meet someone who is being himself?

Don't take me wrong - I understand your sentiment. What I'm doing here is not an attack on you, I'm providing you a view from "behind enemy lines." I'm 40, I'm still into one-night stands, I'm not alone, and if I ever show up at your book discussion group, I'm there to get laid. So are most of the guys I know.

Using the book discussion group as an example, what are the odds that the sports bar guys you're trying to lure to your places actually read the same things you do?

I'm not complaining about manipulative sluts at all - I thrive on them. I'm not afraid of trying new things, I'm avoiding the stuff that previous girlfriends shoved down my throat. I'm obviously not for you, but then again neither are the OVERWHELMING majority of guys you addressed that post to. If you've ever been in a bad marriage, you should thank those guys from staying the hell away from "your" places and narrowing down the field. True, the field may be too narrow for your taste now, but luring the guys who wouldn't be caught dead on your "turf" isn't going to make things better.

Patience, Grasshopper. The best relationships just happen, even if it's not quickly enough for our tastes.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

17. Hmm, I've never gone to a sports bar, because I'm not into sports

Who would have thought I could go there to meet women who also are not into sports? :crazy:

[Commendatori]

19. You'd be astounded, but that isn't the point

The point is that you don't go to places that don't interest you, and neither do most people who are seeking relationships. The point of my post is that this is a GOOD thing, not a bad one.

As for one-nighters, plenty of women who don't care about sports go to sports bars if they want to pick up guys, just as guys who don't really like dancing go to clubs to pick up women. I'm not Sam Malone, but I do reasonably well and probably have better luck in big expensive sports bars like the ESPN Zone.

Of course, your smaller sports bars are often a dead end.

[TEXASYANKEE]

23. Where is this ESPN Zone?

I'm a 40-something single female who likes sports and men ...

[Commendatori]

33. One in Baltimore, one in D.C.

Baltimore's is in the Inner Harbor, DC's is at Metro Center.

[Kat45]

25. I don't think she's saying that guys should go if they're not interested

in the activities. I think she's saying that there are probably a number of guys who are interested in activities she mentioned, but they just don't go, for whatever reason. To all the things she's talking about, I can say "been there, done that, had same result." Ironically, I've met some great guys with whom I share interests, but they're always married. I wonder why I couldn't have met them before they were married. :-) I also have several middle-aged male friends (who are just friends) who are very good looking, nice guys, good people. They are just the kind of guys I would want to meet, but I know that if I didn't already know them from a long time ago, I wouldn't meet them now because they don't participate in these types of activities either. (They just do the kinds of things they like either contentedly by themselves or with their friends and don't make any effort to meet anyone. Some of them don't care; others just gripe about not having a girlfriend.)

It's even tougher now that I'm in my late forties (although I look late thirties), because the opportunities to meet someone get slimmer every year. I've taken to glancing at the left hands of men I see in my day-to-day 'travels'--on the subway, in the supermarket, the mall, at work, etc. I have found that about 95% are wearing wedding rings, even those in their twenties. The other 5% are split among way too young (twenties), gay, with somebody, and totally unattractive to me.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

27. Comment

Let me ask you this: do you want guys to feign interest in something you're interested in and show up to try to wrangle a fling, or would you prefer to wait longer and eventually meet someone who is being himself?

If I wanted one of the all-American suburban macho guy types who has three topics of conversation (his job, pro sports, and whatever line the network news is spouting that day), yeah, I'd head for the sports bars. (By the way, I believe that this limited-and-proud-of-it macho guy syndrome is not hardwired but is a product of our culture. I get along better with European and East Asian men than with Americans. Now if I can only figure out where they are in Minneapolis...)

However, I can't believe that ONLY gay men are interested in taking classes (I'm not talking about needlepoint here. I've taken computer and business courses as background for my work, for heaven's sake), going to the gym, hiking, or volunteering, or that men suddenly develop these interests after marriage.

Years ago, when I was in my twenties, the women's magazines started saying, "You don't have to have a man to have a life. You can go to concerts or out to dinner alone. You can join organizations alone, etc. etc." I'm not sure that men have gotten this message. When a man confesses to being a classical music listener but doesn't go to concerts if he doesn't have a date, then you kind of have to wonder if he's ever considered the social possibilities of the refreshment bar at intermission. It is my observation that the gay men have done so, and since about 50% of the audience is likely to be female, perhaps the straight men should, too.

[Commendatori]

34. Response

"I'm not sure that men have gotten this message."

Fair enough. I responded the way I did because every guy I know has.

Maybe it's because I've always been a city boy that I couldn't imagine that this is a secret, but now that I think of it, you might well be right. I admit that I took your post as an attempt to unlock some "secret" that I thought the whole world knew, but upon reading your second one and thinking it over, I see your point better.

I still stand by everything I wrote, though :)

[tigereye]

35. if I were single I would go to Friends Meeting

or to some political group. There always seem to be ( and in the past there were) lots of interesting men there. Not all single, but many were.

No offense to Quaker folk, but I have always met really neat people at the meeting house, male and female.

[camero]

18. If you're single a church can be worse than a bar

I've had bad experiences with women from church and don't like drinking the Kool-aid. So I don't.

[AngryAmish]

20. Mostly hanging out in bars

Picking up sleazy, manipulative women.

[TrogL]

22. We're all gay

Get over it.

[yellowcanine]

24. Actually, most are probably hanging out with the manipulative sluts.

I guess that speaks well for you if you don't know where they are.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

28. Judging from the number of guys

who post in the Lounge about how some woman stomped all over their heart, you may be right.

:-)

[Kat45]

26. Lydia, if you find out, please let me know.

I've had the same experiences as you. Even when I've volunteered for (liberal) political campaigns, I met all women and gay men (with the only single men being just out of college, ie way too young).

Edited to add: Even at local DU gatherings, the men were either married, with girlfriend, gay, and/or way too young.

[geniph]

30. They're trying to get into swingers' clubs!

Nearly every swinger club I know of is totally infested with single middle-aged guys looking for females. It's to the point where any kind of event for polyfolk has to make rules about how many single guys can attend, charges them extra, stuff like that. A lot of them are sleazoids who all cluster about the few conventionally "hot" women (completely ignoring the majority of perfectly attractive but more average women), but there's also a hell of a lot of guys who are just lonely. Yeah, they're hanging out at swing clubs to get laid...FIRST.

It's to the point where I almost can't go to poly events because of the lone wolves. They wait until my husband goes to the restroom, then they pounce, en masse. It drives me nuts. Sorry, you have to meet my husband, too! We're a couple, okay? Package deal. The ones who wait until he's gone are automatically disqualified.

What's funny is that there's a lot of straight guys in the choir I sing with, the Seattle Lesbian and Gay Chorus. Don't know if they just prefer hanging out with less-conventional people or if they're actually cruising for chicks, but there's quite a few of them, and they're a bit put off by my being poly! (They all like the idea of ME being bisexual, but it freaks them to find out my husband is, too.) Go figure.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

31. We---ell, a Portland friend of mine did meet one of her

gentleman friends at a k.d. lang concert. :shrug:

[slackmaster]

32. I'm holed up at home with a bum shoulder

Collecting unemployment and using online resources to search for meaningful work.

Are you single baby boomer men hanging out in sleazy bars and complaining that all you meet is manipulative sluts?

A beer would taste good right about now. I assure there are plenty of places other than bars where one can meet manipulative sluts. My last relationship lasted 3 years and suddenly went south when my now ex GF turned out to be a stalker. Mixing self-prescribed antidepressants and not abstaining from alcohol may have contributed to her bizarre and completely unacceptable behavior. (I almost had her thrown in jail after she threatened me.)

My problem is I seem to be attracted to women who are unstable.

I was married for a little over 10 years. During that time desirable women were throwing themselves at me constantly. I was faithful to my wife, resisted all the temptation.

Thanks for the suggestions. When I'm feeling better I might give it a shot again.

[rinsd]

36. "My problem is I seem to be attracted to women who are unstable."

I know how you feel. But hey at least they make for interesting relationships.