most modern music is crap.........discuss

[mopaul]

i'm old and cranky, but i've always liked music. i'm eclectic in my tastes, i enjoy at least 30 differnet 'forms' of music, while some only enjoy one. but most of what i hear on the radio is total crap.

i look back in time to find good music. when i was a young punk, all i listened to was cream and hendrix, but i learned to appreciate sinatra and tony bennet over time, and i can allow the red hot chili peppers into my world. i like good music and when i hear it, i don't care what the genre is. symphonic, jazz, hip hop, soul, r and b, etc. but there is so much on radio that is just noise.

and people have learned to accept crap as art. madonna is crap, sorry. emenem is crap, sorry. streisand and celine are both crap.
most of the music we now enjoy is total crap.

we need a revolution in music again. somebody, please, bring back good music for christ's sake, and put it on the radio to counteract all the crap.

[KG]

1. modern music isn't crap - 'pop' music is crap.

there is alot of great music being still being made. i hear plenty of great music everyday on my community radio station. but those artist aren't ever heard on mainstream staitons. lucky me.

[randr]

3. Right on!

We have to be a discriminating in our search for music as for news and opinions. Community Radio is the only playa!

[LastKnight]

26. however, most modern music is pop...

therefore... if pop = most modern music...

most modern music = crap

-LK

[Sporadicus]

2. The Last Time I Got Excited About New Music

was in the early-to-mid '90s. Bands like Nirvana, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, and Stone Temple Pilots were innovating a new style of rock that hastened the demise of that corporate pop phenomenon celebrated on MTV's Head Banger's Ball. I had high hopes for what came to be known as 'alternative' rock, but this genre has been largely displaced by mutations of rap.

Several groups have come along in the meantime to whom I give a listen, however: Red Hot Chili Peppers, Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit, and Rage Against the Machine among the most prominent. All these, as noted, employ rap lyrics.

I'll continue to listen to new music, seeking the fresh and inventive as I have for most of my life. I don't spend much time listening to 'classic rock' or any other genre with which I am already familiar. Most recently, I've given attention to The White Stripes and The Strokes, whose arrangements harken back to the best of the alternative era.

[JanMichael]

4. ACK! Don't lump the RHCP's in with Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit!

Oooh, my head, my aching head...

That plus they formed in 1983, before Nirvana/1987 (Whom I still love) and a year prior to Sound Garden/1984 (Who I still have a CD of).

[Sporadicus]

6. No Lumping Here

The only connection they share has to do with my listening to them. Sorry for the headache! :headbang:

[JanMichael]

8. Oh, Ok. Plus you added RATM so we pretty much listen to the same stuff.

I've got the White Stripes too.

[ariesgem]

46. WORD!

I luv some RHCP.

[NashVegas]

17. Boy, I Hate to Tell You This

But bands like the ones you listed - or more specifically, the commercial exploitation of them - on line 1 did more to sabotage the burgeoning success of people who were making non-genre compliant, wide-open music than anything else nameable.

Alternative music was about expressing so much more than male agression. The success of Nirvana and the rush to exploit it, by signing and promoting other grunge bands at the expense of those who laid the ground for the alternative movement, set the subculture back 10-15 years.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

42. Hear Hear!

[Whitacre D_WI]

5. No worse than the '50s, '60s, '70s, '80s, or '90s.

Since the advent of the 45RPM record, music has been recorded as product. Pure and simple. Sure, occasionally something is both good AND commercially successful. But the record companies don't give a good goddamn about whether something is good or not.

They are interested in profit, not art.

Always have been.

[RandomKoolzip]

28. Right.

It was only an accident of location and time that the great music of the past was also the COMMERCIAL music of the past.


Pop music has always been crap, while rock music has always been the shit. In the late fifties, rock became the dominant marketplace force, subsiding in the early 60's, while reappearing again inn the form of the Beatles. A real rock band had become THEE dominant cultural force, affecting the realm of pop in new, amazing, unpredictable ways....the most important and unfortunate one being that forever, rock and pop would be confused in people's minds.


Just for clarification: ROCK is music played by musicians in the small band format ustilizing bass, drums, and guitars played in pursuit of combustion. There is a concious intent on the part of the musicians involved to make the music (as opposed to the "persona" of the band)as expressive as possible. Examples of Rock bands: Muddy Waters Band, Black Flag, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Wire, Led Zeppelin, Soundgarden, The Kinks, Sleater-Kinney, Allman Brothers, Kleenex.

POP is the music played by producers, con men, hucksters, and Tin Pan Alley salesmen, showcasing "the star," the product. No actual musicians need to be involved in the process of making the music itself. The music takes a backseat to the presentation of the "persona." Print, television, and interviews usually convey the "image" or point of the star as well as the music. Pop used to be made with the backing of real musicians, paid by the session (also known as "hacks") but pop music is now being made more efficiently than ever due to cheap technology and the advent of ProTools, Nuendo, and other DIY software. Without the excitement of multimedia manipulations and the generating of contrived "controversy," the pop music's makers would probably be in the shoe business. Examples of Pop music: Madonna, Eminem, David Bowie, Soft Cell, Morrissey, Kanye West, Sha Na Na, DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince, Boards of Canada, Jay-Z.

The problem with claiming that "modern music sucks" is that we are disregarding history. Rock and pop are two different things. Sometimes, when a rock band enters the mass conciousness, rock becomes pop. But pop can never be rock.

[Spider Jerusalem]

31. I would have to argue with some of your "pop" classifications.

I don't think you can seriously call Bowie "pop". Sure, some of his work in the eighties went too far in that direction, but most of his career he's done what can only be called rock (albeit concept-heavy art-rock, adopting differing personae for each album and so on).

And Boards of Canada (not to mention most other electronic acts) aren't "pop", either; in fact, in terms of aural, tonal and rhythmic complexity the only thing you can legitimately compare the best of the electronic music artists to would be classical composers. (But an awful lot of it is crap, like every other genre.)

[RandomKoolzip]

35. If an artist does NOT keep a stable band lineup together..

He or she is not a rock musician. Bowie is most concerned with his "persona." Occasionally a rock-like sound might be found on his earlier albums, back when he had a real band (Including the "Spiders from Mars" in the name of the album was a deadgiveaway that Bowie was after the combustion that only real small band interplay could give. The albums utilizing this approach arer also his best, not so coincidentally.) Bowie's concern has been merging performance art and pop music, mainly.


And if a group of musicians are using synths, samplers, and

[Spider Jerusalem]

36. There are an awful lot of people who would dispute your definitions.

Including a very large number of critics and musicologists.

And synths, samplers, drum machines, what have you, are still instruments. Which require what would be thought of as "musical skill" to cause to produce harmonic, melodic, and properly rhythmic sounds, which we call "music".

Your definitions are excessively narrow...not to say rather elitist. Bob Dylan hasn't kept a stable band lineup; is he a "pop" musician?

And the insistence that only a small band (3-5 members, bass, guitar/s, drums, maybe percussion) qualifies as "rock" is also rather silly, in fact as much so as saying "it isn't jazz if it's more than a quintet".

[chenGOD]

45. How are you gonna lump Boards of Canada in there?

If the main effort of "pop" music is the persona of the band, then Boards of Canada are about the furthest thing from pop you can get. They live on a commune, do no publicity for their recordings, very rarely perform live, and don't care about fame.

Sleater-Kinney or Led Zeppelin would both fit your defintion of pop better, as much of the bands' success is based upon their persona (Sleater-Kinney is the shoegazer deal, Led Zeppelin the bad boy rock deal).

Of course, if you don't think that samplers/synths/drum machines can be instruments I guess you shouldn't talk to Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea, Pete Townshend, Pink Floyd, Joe Zawinul etc etc.

[roscoeroscoe]

7. aside from the songs in the south park movie, there's also...

big head todd and the monsters, pat metheny, warren hill, the reinvogorated santana, and may i add, los lonely boys.
and yes, radio is corporate wasteland. sad but inevitable. have a chance to check out serius radio? i rented a car with satallite radio and it was fantastic.
out~

[seventhson]

9. MOS DEF

I met him in NYC last weekend and bought his CD (1999) but I have for years woreked in a community run station and there are toms of great musicians out there)

Mos is into kinda antigangster hiphop with mellow grooves (I caught his music on the Dave Chappelle show in a groovy set and was floored when I saw him at the theater where Tim Robbins "Embedded" was playing)

But when I got the music home it was deep, spiritual, and political. Beautiful.

The music is out there. But you have to look for it.

Pop radio mostly sucks but it is not much worse than my growing up with Tony Orlando and the Osmonds with top hits.


MOS DEF will be in the films "Confederacy of Dumces" and Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy" and he has a new CD coming out in September.

I recommend it. He does Gil Scott Heron stuff too and did at the Blue Note in NYC so if you ae familiar you will get it.

[Jackhammer Jesus]

25. If you're a fan of Mos Def, I'd recommend the "Black Star" CD

It's a collaboration with Mos Def and Talib Kweli.

I think they were on Chappelle's show once, and that might be the performance you saw.

[eaprez]

10. Some people

..thought Hendrix and Cream were crap as well. Some people think God (Eric Clapton) is crap......good music is subjective so something one can't really discuss. Everything I like is PREEMO....what I don't like is CRAP! :) I hated hearing Emenim pouring out of my sons room. "Turn that crap off" I'd say....I listened to one of his CD's...and actually some of Emenim's stuff is VERY clever. I don't understand the reason for the "bad language"...but I don't understand why comedians resort to it either.

[Spider Jerusalem]

23. But Clapton IS crap.

Quitting heroin was the worst bloody career move he ever made...most of what he's recorded since he put down the needle has been shite. The majority of his work since about 1971 has been anti-climax...he'd deserve his reputation if he'd OD'ed back when he was riding George Harrison's wife, but the blaze of that first six or so years of brilliance is a bit dulled by thirty-plus years of lame, uninspired, passionless, timid quasi-pop/adult contemporary/pretentious blues wanking...

[mr blur]

43. You are absolutely correct!

[ACK]

11. Yes of couse with few exceptions all good music stopped in the '60s

I felt this way myself when I was oh I don't know, 16 years old.

Then I actually got out and started listening and looking for good new music.

Its always been tough look at the top 40 charts of both the 60's and the 70's. Oh notice something, with few exceptions most of that stuff is high crap.

In the late 80's I felt the world was all hard rock crap and synth pop fluff and that everything was just shit.

Then I looked at the exceptions and the less well known relatives of those exceptions in the music world.

I listened to U2 and REM and that got me into the Cure, the Smiths, Husker Du, the Replacements, Minutemen and other bands that were not from the classic rock era but were also not crap.

Take a listen to the Red Hot Chilli Peppers and you might find yourself liking the Meat Puppets and Social Distortion but they are also older bands.

Like Rage Against the Machine then you might like NOFX or Bad Religion for example. No, I am not comparing direct styles btw.

From the modern era, I kind of like the White Stripes and the Strokes despite the hype around each band I find White Blood Cells and Is This It? in my CD changer.

I also tried out Muse but was not overly impressed but I hear there is this punk band called Most Precious Blood that is really good.

You have to look because it is never easy finding new good music.

_

[Speck Tater]

12. Most modern music has ALWAYS been crap.

Even in Beethoven's time. We remember Beethoven because his music wasn't crap, but what about the hundreds of other composers of his day that we DON'T remember? They wrote most of the music and they wrote crap.

Most of the rock music in the 60's and 70's was crap, but we don't remember the crap, we only remember the good stuff. Most of the novels ever written were crap, but we remember the classics. The 972 other writers of Shakespeare's day all wrote crap, so we don't remember them.

We think the old stuff was better simply because we don't remember the old stuff that was crap and only remember the old stuff that was good. Twenty years from now we will remember the good music of this decade and will not remember the crap of this decade.

In any art form, most of what is produced is always crap. It's just that after we have filtered out the good stuff and preserved it for posterity, we forget how much crap we had to wade through to find that good stuff.

[Maestro]

13. Hip-hop and pop have destroyed good music

Teeny-bopper superficial than is more show than substance. I can appreciate a good voice which undoubtedly some of these singers have but the music behind the voice is hollow to say the least. I like good, straight-forward rock and roll, metal, if you will. For the thinking metal-head, I am in to progressive rock, such as Dream Theater, Rush, Porcupine Tree and the like. Check it out it is quite good.

www.dreamtheater.net

www.porcupinetree.com

www.rush.com

[eaprez]

16. Like I said...

....this is so subjective. I think 'metal' is crap as well as all forms of CW music.

[DancingBear]

14. Oh, it is

Recycling trends from 20-30 years ago and calling it "new" - ridiculous.

Rap? - please see The Last Poets, Gil-Scott-Heron.

The "style-du-jour" for rock - done years ago.

College "progressive radio" - laughable. We used to call them "garage bands." Now anyone who hasn't been heard of is the next great unwashed talent.

BTW - can anyone actually sing in rock music today, or is the "angry young man" syndrome manifested by croaking in a sandpaper-coated wail. Oh, the angst! the angst!

Hell, this stuff is so copycat that they couldn't even think of an original place to hold a rock festival. They even recycled Woodstock!

Don't even get me started on pop stuff, where of course "emoting" now constitutes great vocalizing.

[HuckleB]

15. "Most" modern music has always been crap when it was "modern."

It is somewhat true that one must now seek out the best of the best in places other than the radio and television. But there is just as much amazing music being made, probably more, when one notes the proliferation of the ease of making cd's. Much great music was never recorded before. Now it is. Go and find it.

[NashVegas]

18. most modern music most people hear is crap

There are some bright spots still out there. You have to go looking for it, is all.

Try Sondre Lerche out. He's a 20 or something year old Norwegian guy with a very cool thing going on.

[gold_bug]

19. most music is crap

there's just more and more of it, so the few good strands get buried. There's genius "pop" today but it's hard to find. I used to think "indie" was the place to start looking but it seems like it's become somewhat corporate-ized now.

[AntiCoup2K4]

20. Every decade has it's good and bad

In the 50's, for every Elvis & Chuck Berry, you had a Fabian or a Pat Boone.

In the 60's, you had the Beatles and the Stones, but you also had Herman's Hermits and a bunch of other weak assed bands trying to cash in.

For every Led Zeppelin, there was a lame ass disco song.

For every Van Halen, there was Poison & Slaughter.

And in the 90's you had Nirvana, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, and Alice In Chains, but then some idiot signed Candlebox and it all went down hill from there.

Historically, music seemed to renew itself at the beginning of every decade, and blow away the bloated crap that the previous decade's music had become. Like the "Seattle" bands forced the "hair metal" shit off the radio, long after any relevant music in that genre had ceased to exist.

This decade worries me because that mini-revolution hasn't happenned and we're almost halfway into this one. 2004 and nothing has stepped up to knock Britney Spears and Eminem off the airwaves. How pathetic is that?

Like most other things wrong with the country, it's all because of Bush and the corporatists controlling everything.

What we need is a comeback of good old honest to God political punk rock. Reagan, in his evil and stupidity, inspired some of the best music of the 80's. Junior, being twice as evil and 4 times as stupid, should be doing even better :evilgrin:

[NashVegas]

22. We Need to Let Go of Our Perception of What Music Should Be

As great as it is/was, rock & pop-rock had a 50 year run.

Popular music is dying because we, the fans and the industry that profits off of it, refuse to let it evolve into a new form.

[RandomKoolzip]

30. Integrating samplers is not "evolving."

The form itself is an organic one. Integrating sytnths and samplers and turntables into an organic, physical form such as rock makes about as much sense as stapling an iPod onto a hydrangea bush. Each time the form gets less physical, as in the itegration first of synths in the earlty 80's, then the phasing out of human percussionists in the 90's, the form has been weakened from outside (pop) influences. Occasionally Rock musicians themselves let the marketplace determine the timbral, superficial aspects of the form, and each time it's been disastrous for the music (disco, synth pop, techno, current DJ culture.) Rock music is not dead, it's just a localized medium now, like it was during the pop dominance of the early 60's and mid-80's.


And I wish you'd stop wishing for it's death. There's never been better music and suggesting that Boards of Canada or whoever could succeed it in terms of importance, impact, and sheer awesomeness is laughable.

See post #28.


Really, when you get down to it, video games have superceded the importance of music itself in young people's lives. Frankly, these could all be good factors; now the real musicians will be free to create real music without the constraints of the marketplace barking down their snorkels.

[NashVegas]

38. Samples, Shmamples

The sole difference between 100% electronically produced music and organic is the vibration, and the lack of contact with a vibrating instrument.

Throughout (western) music history what's brought change is the introduction and popularization of new instruments. So - what popular vibrating instruments have been introduced lately? Now think for a moment about the impact of recorded music, starting with the phonograph - the preservation of a music. Could it be that the instrument which brought the possibility of widescale commercial exploitation of music has helped kill its progress?

Doubtful. Popular music went through at least 4 major revolutions between 1890 and 1955 alone. Next thing you know, the industry latched onto the connection between one large generation and a specific genre and that's all she wrote.

I don't have to wish for rock to die, rock IS dead. The sampling that you decry is simply the demonstration that rock has become nothing more than one big recycling machine.

Mick Jones proved it with "Rush." He could have chosen to use "organic" instruments, and allowed people to think "Rush" was a completely new and original composition. He could have done it like Karl Wallinger and completely, organically lifted passages wholesale, while bitching to anyone who'd listen about the lack of originality in modern music.

Really, when you get down to it, video games have superceded the importance of music itself in young people's lives.

And why shouldn't it have done so, when the boomer generation refuses to let go of its cultural stranglehold, presenting itself as the arbitration Poobahs of what constitutes "good." When you refuse the most creative minds of a generation the ability to imprint a form of pop culture with their own ideas and that of their peers, which is exactly what happened between 1976-1984, of course they will abandon it for territory of their own making (just like many of the more creative young people, then, told their parents and big brothers to take their Rush & Skynyrd & shove it up their asses)!

And that is exactly what's happening in the US entertainment industry. There are some very bright spots, but they will never have the widescale cultural impact of a Led Zeppelin 1 or even Nevermind, because we have divided everything up into genres in order to please and exploit marketing demos.

[BBradley]

21. Eminem isn't crap. <nt>

[Jade Fox]

24. This is my theory...

Most commercial pop music these days is written to be a soundtrack
to the accompanying video, a subtle but pervasive difference from
what happened in the pre-video era. It can't really stand on its own.

Things were different when those producing
music were operating from the mind-set, however unconcious, that
the only impact they would have on the consumer would be
based on what the consumer heard.

Commercial motivation alone does not explain poor music quality. Some of
the best music (and other popular culture) to come out of this country was
created by people whose goals stopped a the desire to make a quick
buck.

[mvd]

27. This is something I'll never agree on

Madonna and Eminem are not crap IMO. Madonna has s very elegant voice and good grooves. Immaculate Collection would have to be a desert island CD. Eminem does have a good flow and some nice rockish backings, despite the lousy lyrics. I see more of a anti-pop bias that some have more than modern music being bad. The Beatles were radio-friendly. Just because something is radio friendly doesn't mean that there isn't craft and intelligence involved. I think stuff like Mars Volta and Bjork is less enjoyable than Britney. I'm not a Britney fan, but indie isn't always better.

What I don't like is the nu-metal, much of the rap, much of the bubblegum pop and adult contemporary (J-Lo, Hilary Duff, Jessica Simpson, B*Witched, 'N Sync, Spice Girls, Michael Bolton, newer Mariah Carey, most American Idol stuff.) I love the pop/rock (The Corrs, Madonna, Avril Lavigne, Michelle Branch, Evan And Jaron, Hanson, former Rembrandts, No Doubt, Sixpence None The Richer, Goo Goo Dolls.) There are some in R&B I like: Usher, Alicia Keys, Beyonce, Jill Scott, the former TLC, the late Aaliyah.

There are some other greats on the charts: Dixie Chicks, Alanis Morissette, Loretta Lynn, and Norah Jones among them.

Then there are a lot of upcoming and lesser known artists that I love (Cindy Alexander, Lindsay Lohan, Gretchen Wilson, Abra Moore, Kay Hanley, The Painkillers, Jo Davidson, Laura Dawn, Ron Sexsmith, Neil Finn, The Jayhawks, Dar Williams, PJ Harvey, Lucy Woodward, Lillix, Nina Gordon, Leona Naess, Miranda Lee Richards, Penelope Houston, Maren Ord, Bree Sharp, Thea Gilmore, Anna Waronker, Mary Lou Lord, The Shins, New Pornographers, Sleater-Kinney, The Donnas, The Wrens, The Postal Service, Lostprophets among them.)

Also, certain music these days is played so much on the radio that it turns people off and makes them want to revolt when the music isn't too bad. I'm usually not affected by radio play, though.

So as always, we're going to have to agree to disagree. Music is so subjective that there's not a clear line between good and bad. One person's turd of a lyric might be another person's gem of a lyric.

Can't stay long, but had to get my 2 cents in. :-)

[BBradley]

32. That's ridiculous

Given the choice between Britney and Bjork, I'd take the gun. (I like the Mars Volta :P )

[mvd]

34. Again, your opinion only

I say the same to music snobs about the music I like. :P

Open-minded music listening is the most rewarding IMO. And I'm proud of my taste.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

29. I sort of lost interest in alternative stuff...doesnt speak to me anymore

I used to like new wave and alternative stuff....but for some reason Ive lost my ear for this music..the new acts and bands just dont grab me too much, not they way they used to.

I used to like the early 90s stuff like Uncle Tupelo and Son Volt, and also Gin Blossoms, Poi Dog Pondering (Frank Orral remains consistently good), Jayhawks, Counting Crows, Indigo Girls, Hothouse Flowers, Midnight Oil, Billy Bragg, and so forth....maybe more the folky/country side of alternative...and also the "northern" bands like the the Smiths, New Order, the Manchester bands like the Charlatans, the Happy Mondays, Kitchens of Distinction, and so forth.

Nowadays I just cant get into the stuff...tried to listen to Coldplay and some of the other acts and am not too impressed.

[mvd]

33. I love Coldplay

They have improved. I thought Parachutes showed promise, but wasn't special. But IMO, A Rush Of Blood To The Head matches albums by great bands like Counting Crows, Indigo Girls, and The Jayhawks. Coldplay has gotten more original like those bands IMO.

I still find lots to buy today, and think the mid-to-late 90s was music's low point.

[retread]

37. I thought so too, but then I bought a Sirius satellite radio!

Initially it was for Air America, but the music programming is incredible!! I'm hooked.

[NashVegas]

40. How Many Sirius Stations

Will play Billie Holiday, Philip Glass, the Beatles, and Radiohead all on the same channel?

It seems like a great thing, but really all its doing is continuing to promote (sub)cultural division.

[retread]

41. Just one.

*

[chaska]

39. 'Twas ever thus. Twere it not?

[mr blur]

44. Can't say "Crap" without saying "Rap"

Whatever happened to musicians?

[neverborn]

47. Agreed.

[ariesgem]

49. I was a teenager in the late 70's

and as an African American, I listened to funk, soul and some rock. I even dabbled with playing the bass by playing in a teenaged all-girl, funk band. Everyone I knew had or wanted to start a garage band and play bass like Bootsy Collins or Larry Graham and play guitar like Ernie Isley or Eddie Hazel. I knew kids that either strived to be OR was that good. If you were a singer, wouldn't even think about getting on stage unless you could BLOW or it's guaranteed that your ass would get booed.

Today, you can't find a black soul or r&b band. The majority of the r & b singers SUCK. It's all about producing a slick video and F*ck the quality of the music. I use to liked hip hop until it turned into this huge money machine for the record companies.

I guess it's too easy to just sample music over a drum machine and call it a song, instead of picking up an instrument. Thanks alot P Diddy

[neverborn]

48. Yuck. No good stuff. Agreed.

[ACK]

50. The music on the radio is always crap -- You sound like my Dad

I guess the real question is:
What do you like mopaul?

Just lately I went on my own exploration for new music that I like. There are two bands that despite the hype I still like for example the garage rock of the White Stripes and the indie-rock styles of the Strokes.

Both of these bands are on the radio.

Radiohead is pretty famous but I have never really gotten into them and I tried Muse but felt it was a bit melodramatic for my taste at least their last album.

However, I like NOFX, Pennywise, and the New Bomb Turks from the Punk Revival though most of the rest of it is flat out crap.

That is the key. 95% of all the music out there is crap and the good stuff barely gets played at all. Its been that way since the eighties. You've heard of U2 and REM right? They were good but they were the two bands out of a hundred good bands that ever got any play at that time. But from the eighties you probably did not hear Husker Du, the Minutemen, Firehose, the Replacements, Dinosaur Jr., the Dead Kennedys, Suicidal Tendencies, Black Flag or a host of bands going beyond the synth pop conventions of eighties rock crap.

_

[GreenPartyVoter]

51. Hey, the post-grunge scene rock isn't crap

I still prefer the classic rock, but Nickelback and linkin park et al are pretty decent stuff.