Thought-provoking piece on pit bulls.

[Shakespeare]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/07/06/BAG0C7H3811.DTL

A few snips:

Whenever there is an account of a mauling by a pit bull, there is a howl of protest from those who love the breed. There are no bad dogs, just bad owners, they say. Or they ask how the media reporting the incident knew the dog was a pit bull. Pit bulls, they insist, are no more inherently dangerous than any other breed of dog.

That's not true.

"You can't make a German shepherd stop herding,'' says Merritt Clifton, editor of the Washington-based Animal People magazine. "You can't make a Chihuahua stop barking.''

<snip>

According to a study by the U. S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, covering the years between 1979 and 1994, pit bulls were involved in 57 fatal attacks -- well over twice the number for the next breed on the list, rottweilers, with 19, and more than German shepherds (17), huskies (12) and malamutes (12) combined. A 2000 study by the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association concluded that pit bulls "were involved in 65 fatal attacks between 1979 and 1998 ... twice that of rottweilers and more than three times German shepherds."

more...

[baldguy]

1. All of the pit bulls I've known

Have been gentle, loving, friendly animals. All dogs are ABLE to cause injury, the difference is in the way they are trained.

[Shakespeare]

2. Part of it is in the breeding, too.

I didn't train my border collie to (try to) herd my cats. And the statistics on pit bull attacks v. other breeds are pretty hard to explain away to just "bad owners."

[Djinn]

21. they're easy to explain away to bad owners

and the more knee jerk stories about how "bad" pitties are the moer likely that meat heads will go buy one and not train it properly.

Clearly the physical attributes of a pitt bull mean that IF they attack you're in more danger of serious injury than if a chihuaha mauls you - same is true if you're attacked by a labrador, but the people who buy labs (for example) tend to be families because they're marketed as "family dogs" therefore they rarelt train those labs to bite and attack, unlike the eunuchs who buy pitties as a substitue for a penis.

[molly]

3. AMEN!!! my pitbull is the most gentle loving

and smart dog I have ever owned. She gives the kitties baths and will sit on the lap of any guest coming into this house - except for the ones that have mistreated her.

[UdoKier]

5. Well, there is a huge difference in strength.

I don't think a pitbull is so much more likely to attack - the worst-tempered dog I ever saw was a cocker spaniel, but look at a pitbull's body, it's jaw muscles in comparison to those of a collie, or a retriever, and it's obvious that a pitbull can exert a LOT more force.

I disagree with banning the breed, but one attack and the dog should be taken away.

Some people train these animals to be violent to anyone in their path. Especially people who use them for dogfights.

If another dog at the same house does it, the owner should be brought up on criminal charges (unless the person attacked was a prowler, of course)

[Spinzonner]

12. You may be correct

although your anecdotal experience isnt a firm basis for public policy.

The issue is whether the breed carries a higher inherent risk for attacks and for death or injury from those attacks and whether that is sufficient reason to restrict or prohibit them.

Its like the fact that you can cause harm with all kinds of guns but some guns are moe dangerous than others because of the potential for misuse or the magnitude of the harm from its use.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

4. a lot of people who own pit bulls use them in fights

its why they end up attacking people

[NorthernSpy]

6. another stat I read someplace:

I think I remember reading that pit bulls are about 1% of Canada's dog population, but account for a quarter of all fatal dog attacks on humans.

Oh, never mind. I'm sure we're all enlightened enough to know that all breeds of dogs are equally dangerous, which is why underground beagle fighting rings are such huge problem, and why so many thugs like to terrorize the neighborhood with killer basset hounds.

:eyes:


Mary

[NJGeek]

7. Those statistics still don't logically imply ...

... that the breed is at fault over the owner. Have you been to the inner cities and seen the type of people raising these dogs? Do you know the techniques they use, such as hanging them off of buildings, burning them, and constantly abusing them?

This article starts off with a fallacy, that the "pit bull" that they are talking about even exists. The pedigree breeds that most "city" pit bulls are derived from in one way or another: the Bull Terrier, the American Staffordshire Terrier, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, the English Bulldog, and the Boxer are all peaceful breeds with little or no incidents of attacks in their histories. The so called "pit bull" is mixed across these lines, always for size and speed, and trained in such a way that their loyalty to owner is perversely twisted into an attack instinct on other animals and people.

The number of city-bred pit bulls is not even known, but I am sure it is more than double the number of rottweilers and German shepards, chows, and other "tough" dogs. The problem is that owners of the above mentioned pedigree breeds will suffer when their beloved animals are persecuted wrongly for the actions of inhumane owners.

Only with vigilant law enforcement of dog fighting, breeding, and licensing laws can the brutal cycle of bad owners breeding bad dogs be stopped.


Links of note:

http://www.akc.org/breeds/recbreeds/stbult.cfm">Staffordshire Bull Terrier: "The Staffordshire Bull Terrier has great affection for people.

Staffordshire Bull Terriers are gentle, affectionate, trustworthy, and loyal."

http://www.akc.org/breeds/recbreeds/amstaff.cfm">American Staffy: "
Over the past 50 years, careful breeding has produced today's American Staffordshire Terrier who is affectionate, reliable, and an especially good dog for children.

The American Staffordshire Terrier is a happy, outgoing, stable, and confident dog who makes a wonderful family pet."

http://www.akc.org/breeds/recbreeds/bullter.cfm">Bull Terrier

... more of the same ...

[rwheeler31]

8. This is so sad,

this breed will have to be destroyed, because of their hideous owners. Anyone who allows a child around one of these dogs should be prosecuted for child abuse. It all comes back to greed and violent competition by unethical slobs.

[Trillo]

9. When I read through this I find myself wondering

if the statistics are absolute numbers, or numbers adjusted for percentage of breed population. They appear to be absolute numbers.

As an example, let's hypothetically say there are 100 dogs in the whole world. 90 of them are pit bulls, the other 10 are a mixture of different breeds, with no other single breed accounting for more than 1 dog. Also, let's stipulate that dog violence is not related to breed. It would be expected that 90% of the attacks would be comprised of Pit Bulls, while the other breeds would appear to have lower numbers.

This article doesn't go into any mathematics used to normalize the statistics for breed relative populations. Consequently, I'm skeptical that this is just a FEAR based article designed to psychologically manipulate the subjects of legislation.

[supernova]

10. You'd have to look at the methodology

in the original study by the AVA to acertain where they got the numbers from.

But yeah, anytime these days you hear about a dog attack, it's usually a pit bull. The fact is we have some lousy neighbors in this country. :-(

[Liberal Classic]

13. You are correct, sir

The document from the CDC itself states that these are absolute numbers, and not proportional to the population.

The actual CDC report in PDF format:

ftp://ftp.cdc.gov/pub/Publications/mmwr/wk/mm4621.pdf


The findings in this report are subject to at least two limitations. First, because death-certificate data were not available, the two sources used for case finding in 1995 1996 probably underestimated the number of DBRFs and may represent only 74% of actual cases ( 1,2 ). Second, to definitively determine whether certain breeds are disproportionately represented, breed-specific fatality rates should be calculated. The numerator for such rates requires complete ascertainment of deaths and an accurate determination of the breed involved, and the denominator requires reliable breed-specific population data (i.e., number of deaths involving a given breed divided by number of dogs of that breed). However, such denominator data are not available, and official registration or licensing data cannot be used because owners of certain breeds may be less likely than those owning other breeds to register or license their animals ( 3 ).

[Shakespeare]

17. Do you have numbers on proportional population?

If so, please post. You talk a lot about the honesty of arguments, but until you can show me proportional numbers that contradict the general "flavor" of the statistics, I'm unconvinced.

[Liberal Classic]

27. The CDC can't even show proportional numbers

Because there isn't an accurate census of dogs in the United States. It might be possible to get such numbers through county animal control offices, but the problem is that criminal owners such as drug smugglers and dog fighters don't license their pets.

In my own humble opinion, being convinced that the Pit Bull breed is "bad" based on highly sensationalized news reports strikes me as illogical. What the PDF document from the CDC implies to me is that less than 20 years ago there were very few fatalities to dog bites at all nation wide. Something happened to change this. The breeds listed in the report are all established breeds, recognized by various dog fancier's association for over 100 years. Why in the past 20 years or so have dog bite fatalities been on the increase, particularly from Rottweilers and Pit Bulls? This is why I believe it is a human problem. I believe part of the answer lies with the dog fighers and drug smugglers who neglect and torture their animals to make them mean.

[Liberal Classic]

11. Another emotional, unscientific appeal

Here are a couple of recent DU threads on the general topic:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=1355477&mesg_id=1355477

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x1362289

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=69028&mesg_id=69028

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=1370153&mesg_id=1370153


The actual title of the San Francisco Gate Chronicle is the rather inflammatory: Pit bull apologists, wake up

Not included in the article is the actual data from the CDC. For completeness I am posting a link to it here. Note that it is in PDF format:

ftp://ftp.cdc.gov/pub/Publications/mmwr/wk/mm4621.pdf

I believe the numbers show something different than the SFGate article implies. I believe that the report shows a human problem, one that involves both Rottweilers and Pit Bulls. I'm talking about the neglect and abuse heaped on these dogs by illegal dog fighting, and also the use of these animals among drug smugglers as guard dogs. Note that the two states with the highest number of fatalities are California and Texas, two states that border Mexico and have problems with illegal drug smuggling and dog fighting. Now, I'm not blaming the problem on Mexico, I am blaming the problem on people in the U.S.

Also of import is the Editorial Note from the document which reads:

to definitively determine whether certain breeds disproportionately represented, breed-specific fatality rates should be calculated. The numerator for such rates requires complete ascertainment of deaths and an accurate determination of the breed involved, and the denominator requires reliable breed-specific population data (i.e., number of deaths involving a given breed divided by number of dogs of that breed). However, such denominator data are not available, and official registration or licensing data cannot be used because owners of certain breeds may be less likely than those owning other breeds to register or license their animals.

Therefore this report cannot and does not claim that Pit Bulls (or Rottweilers for that matter) are more dangerous than any other breed. The author of the San Francisco Chronicle article seems to imply that CDC claims that Pit Bulls are more dangerous than other breeds, but since the author does not include the actual study there's no way of knowing that the actual CDC report does not have sufficient data to make this determination.

This strikes me as highly dishonest and lacking in journalistic integrity.

Totally absent in the article is the fact that this breed of dog serves as search and rescue dogs, drug and bomb sniffing dogs, cadaver dogs, and therapy dogs. To suggest that this breed is less stable than other breeds would imply that they are unsuitable for these types of tasks. This couldn't be further from the truth. Pit Bulls serve in all those fields. It's rare for any dog to have a suitable peronality to work with law enforcement or with the handicapped. Most dogs simply don't have the capacity to do it.

The other unanswered question is if Pit Bulls are such viscious monsters, why must they be subjected to the same type of abuse and torture inflicted on other breeds to make a pit fighting dog. If Pit Bulls were so evil, they would not, but alas such is not the case. As with Rottweilers and Mastiffs these dogs must be literally tortured to make them suitable for the fighting pit.

As in the Diane Whipple case in San Francisco, where people came forward after the fatal attack with accounts of having had earlier concerns about the dogs, Wong's neighbors are now reporting having had problems with the dog that attacked her.

In this discussion, it is important to note that Mrs. Diane Whipple was *NOT* killed by Pit Bulls. Again, this would strike me as a lack of journalistic integrity to mention the Diane Whipple case in an article about Pit Bulls without noting that Mrs. Whipple was mauled to death by Presa Canarios, a Mexican breed from the Canary Islands. (Thanks for the correction, Northern Spy)

So, for Mr. C.W. Nevius I draw attention to the immortal words of Mark Twain: "Get your facts straight first, then you can distort them as you please."

[NorthernSpy]

16. presa canarios are from the Canary Islands...

... not Mexico. Until recently, there were so few of them that the guy who bred them back from the verge of extinction (thanks a bundle, man!) had to mix his breeding stock with some other stuff: whether there's any pit in a modern presa canario, I simply don't know. And Hera and Bane (the dogs who killed Whipple) were reportedly complex crosses who ancestry included a whole slew of things added to make the offspring size up -- mastiff, great dane, etc.


Mary

[Liberal Classic]

18. I stand corrected

I think must have read that the Knollers got them in Mexico. I apologize for the mistake.

[Kenneth ken]

14. sorry to dog lovers

but the breed has inherent problems.

In a pit bull, the jaw locks when they grab onto something with their teeth. And they will not let go. Those are breeding problems.

I once saw a pit bull jump up, grab a tree branch and over the course of about two minutes rip the branch from the tree. At the start of this, the dog barely had its back feet touching the ground; nevertheless, it was insistent in pulling, tearing the branch; it simply never relaesd its hold until it could trot away from the tree with the branch as its prize.

That branch could as easily have been a leg or arm; made no difference to the animal.

The dog doesn't differentiate between good and bad; just whether to retrieve its prize or not.

[Liberal Classic]

15. There's nothing different about a Pit Bull's jaw than any other dog

This is an outright myth, than they have lockjaw or superjaws something. The jaw muscles and bone structure of the Pit Bull are no different than in any other dog of similar size and weight.

[Kenneth ken]

I'll delete this one

since it doesn't have a number

[Kenneth ken]

19. and you're searching for links, right?

sorry, I think I'll believe my lying eyes rather than your unsubstantiated claim.

I've never seen any other breed of dog rip a branch off a tree.

It was impressive in a scary sort of way.

[Trillo]

23. When I was a kid, we owned a Wirehaired Terrier

as a inside/outside pet. One day this dog got mad at the chain link fence, and tried to rip it to shreds. Result? Lots of stitches were required on dog's face.

If I remember, it was hard to get the dog separated from the chain link, he didn't want to let go. Blood was all over the place.

[Liberal Classic]

24. You have made an extraordinary claim

I'm not calling you a lair, goodness! I do, however, expect an extraordinary claim to be backed up with extraordinary proof. You have made the claim that Pit Bulls have superjaws, do you have evidence to support your claim? As a personal anecdote, my mom had a Malmute who could do much the same thing. It got so bad that once in a while we'd buy him a sacrificial shrub from the gardening store so he's leave the trees alone.

I maintain that the jaws and muscles of a Pit Bull are no different than any other dog for the same size and weight. And just because I am such a nice person I'll post some evidence, even thought the burder of proof should be on you.

http://www.austinlostpets.com/kidskorner/2October/pitbull.htm

-Is it true that Pit Bulls can lock their jaw?

The infamous locking jaw is a myth. The American Pit Bull Terrier and related breeds are physiologically no different from any other breed of dog. All dogs are from the same species and none have locking jaws. Dr. I Lehr Brisbin of the University of Georgia states, "To the best of our knowledge, there are no published scientific studies that would allow any meaningful comparison to be made of the biting power of various breeds of dogs. There are, moreover, compelling technical reasons why such data describing biting power in terms of 'pounds per square inch' can never be collected in a meaningful way. All figures describing biting power in such terms can be traced to either unfounded rumor or, in some cases, to newspaper articles with no foundation in factual data." Furthermore, Dr. Brisbin states, "The few studies which have been conducted of the structure of the skulls, mandibles and teeth of pit bulls show that, in proportion to their size, their jaw structure and thus its inferred functional morphology, is no different than that of any breed of dog. There is absolutely no evidence for the existence of any kind of 'locking mechanism' unique to the structure of the jaw and/or teeth of the American Pit Bull Terrier."


http://members.aol.com/bstofshw/facts.html

MYTH: American Pit Bull Terriers lock their jaws to the death.

FACT: Again from Dr. Brisbin: "The few studies which have been conducted of the structure of the skulls, mandibles and teeth of pit bulls show that, in proportion to their size, their jaw structure and thus its inferred functional morphology, is no different than that of any breed of dog. There is absolutely no evidence for the existence of any kind of "locking mechanism" unique to the structure of the jaw and/or teeth of the American Pit Bull Terrier."


http://www.dogexpert.com/Popular%20Press/PitBullFiction.html

3. Pit bull's jaw has a double-locking mechanism that's impossible to shake free

No such magic -- the dogs are just determined animals. "They were bred to never give up," Carroll says. "Their focus may be chasing squirrels or fetching rocks or sticks, but whatever they do, it's done with a great deal of enthusiasm. If they happen to grab something they don't want to release, it can be quite difficult to extract it from them." Randall Lockwood, an animal behaviorist at the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) in Gaithersburg, adds that it's easy to train the dogs to bite and hold on: "Some people work on the dogs' jaws by having them hang on to a rubber tire or tree limb."

[Kenneth ken]

28. thanks

heck you don't have to call me a liar. I'm not one of the over-egoized DUers. I will call myself a LIAR.

(oops) I may have hit "post" too soon.

Okay, I was wrong to say the jaws lock. I will however, use the link you provided to point out that the phrase (in link 3) " they were bred to never give up" does in fact underscore my claim that there are inherent breeding problems in pit bulls.

So, I do opt to stand by that part of my comment. The instance I sited is of course anectdotal and pretty much non-substantiatable (if that's a word)

thanks for the links - I'll go read them and see what else I can learn. :hi:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

31. "They were bred never to give up"

is a line used to describe practically every useful breed. That would be the terrier, herding, working, herding, and (theoretically) sporting breeds. It's not considered a breeding problem, it's considered a desirable trait.

[Djinn]

26. my sisters dog

which is part staffordshire terrier (probably - he's a pound mutt) chewed through the bottom 20cm of a brand new corrugated iron fence.

Almost ANY dog can chew through the leg bone of a cow - a branch poses few peoblems

[Unperson 309]

29. Problem's Not In The Jaw, But In The HEART...

Fighting spirit, stubbornness, refusal to give up, it's called "heart" and a pitbull has it in SPADES! That's the trouble!

Say a cocker Spaniel hits you... In self defense, you kick it in the side of the head. Cocker lights out tail between legs. Ki-YI! Hurt almost *any* dog badly enough and the dog will give up.

Not so the Pit bull. Pits (and I have known many!) may not be trained to fight. They may never get INTO a fight... but once they start, it's DAMNED hard to stop them.

A friend of mine who is an officer in a major city police department told me about the dog he had to shoot. The animal came at him during a house search. In self defense, he fired at the dog and hit it in the face. The dog kept coming! He fired again. The dog yelped. And kept coming! His partner had the rifle out of the patrol car. He fired into the dog's mouth... at which the dog halted, half his face gone, turned around to look for my friend... took three steps toward him...and fell over dead. That's heart. And it's fucking DANGEROUS.

But that, you may say, was a drug house dog, trained and brutalized to fight. OK, that's true... but there is another side to Pits that goes unreported... dog aggression.

ANY pit bull, no matter how gently raised, can and is very LIKELY to, get into a fatal dogfight! Fatal for the other dog, that is. Pits are hereditarily conditioned to dislike other dogs. They are bred to fight dogs. The very NAME "pit" "bull" REFERS to fighting in dogpits.

Regardless of their ability to kill humans, their ability and downright WILLINGNESS to kill OTHER DOGS make them dangerous.

A child, walking a Golden Retriever may fall afoul of a Pit out for a walk in the park. I've seen Pits attack other dogs. I've seen the rage redirected at humans who try to intervene. In fact, many of the attacks and maulings have occurred NOT because some
Pitbull "detonated" on some innocent person, but because the dog attacked the dog the human was WITH at the time!

Pits also LOVE to kill cats. My own cat was killed by a Pit and a Shepherd in California. They got between the cat and the trees and slaughtered him. When I complained to the owner, he shrugged and said "Yeah, he loves to kill 'em. He's got six or eight so far."

Lovely.

Sorry, but Pitbulls are a potential four-legged assault weapon on cats, dogs and... people.

309

[NorthernSpy]

22. these dogs are not pets

No more than a Siberian tiger is a pet.

Pits, presas, and the like were working dogs. They had their sphere, and they are dangerous out of it. These animals are not well adapted to the cramped life of an urban family pet. That doesn't make them bad animals in a moral sense (it should go without saying!), but it does make them radically unsuited to the lives that many of their owners expect them to lead.

The dogs suffer -- and cause suffering -- because a small faction of supposedly dog-loving humans refuse to face facts.


Mary

[Djinn]

25. same with my dog

"In a pit bull, the jaw locks when they grab onto something with their teeth. And they will not let go"

It's not just pitties that have this characteristic, most terriers have this and so do plenty of cross breeds like my dingo/heeler cross who's never hurt a fly. When she grabs a hold of something she will also not let it go, thing is she's been well trained and knows NOT to grab a hold of people (unless they're in my house without our permission) and given that's she locked up in our yard or house and walked on a lead her lock jaw isn't a worry to anyone.

As for working dogs not being suitable pets tell that to anyone with a collie, a cattle dog, a retreiver, etc etc

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

30. All dogs can hold on like that if they want to...

see my post involving a vicious Lhasa Apso.

I've held my manager's West Highland Terrier off the ground for about a minute or so, by lifting the toy in the dog's mouth. The dog didn't want to let go.

I've also played with a rottweiler by basically swinging the dog on a tire swing. I push the swing. The dog jumps up and grabs it, holds on....I can then swing the tire with a rottweiler hanging off it.

[LWolf]

20. Yes, and no.

You can't make a herding dog stop herding. But Pit Bulls weren't bred to attack people. They were bred to fight other dogs; and they are, or can be, aggressive with other animals. They aren't naturally aggressive with people.

My only personal experience is with my son's pound puppy; a pitbull/whippet mix. She was as loving, friendly, and non-aggressive with all people and animals as you could wish for her entire life.

Socialization begins with puppyhood; some dogs need more socialization than others. My aussie, for example, is as sweet and loving as anybody could wish. But we had to work at it with lots of exposure to other people, animals, and places, because she is naturally territorial. It wouldn't surprise me if pitbulls were involved in more attacks than some other dogs; their reputation as fighting dogs leads to adoption by people who want fighting dogs, and who encourage aggressive behavior. It's the socialization, or lack of, that makes the difference, imo.

Here's some more on the subject:

http://www.realpitbull.com/myths.html

<snip>

Myths

"Dogs that are aggressive towards other animals are automatically aggressive towards people." Human aggression in dogs is entirely different than aggression directed at other animals. Aggression towards animals is a natural trait of the breed (as it is in many terrier breeds, among others). Historically, humans were always in the pit, handling fighting dogs closely, while the animals were in full fight drive. A dog that was a danger to people and prone to biting was not feasible, and therefore carefully selected against.

"Pit Bulls attack more people than any other breed." (Also, please see Breed ID) Bite statistics actually show otherwise. More popular breeds that are generally considered to be "nice dogs" top the majority of lists. It may seem to the general public who is constantly bombarded with disturbing reports on Pit Bull attacks that this is the only breed that harms humans with any great regularity. However, the fact remains that Pit Bulls are hot news items. Dogs of all breeds and mixes bite and attack people all the time, but it is mainly the Pit Bull bites that get sensationalized. A report about the local Golden Retriever that attacks and maims a child isn't considered newsworthy. No one wants to believe that any dogs--even the fuzzy, cute, popular ones--are capable of biting. It's much easier to blow up and sensationalize a story about a vicious dog when it's a member of a breed who's reputation preceeds it. Pit Bulls are already considered the demons. All the reporters have to do is stand in front of the camera, look horrified, and say, "A Pit Bull did it".

http://www.realpitbull.com/agg.html

<snip>

Aggression

Because the Pit Bull is generally such a people-friendly breed, they often make poor guards of property. Many specimens of the breed will allow strangers to enter the home or yard without a fuss, whether the owner is present or not. As a guardian of his human, however, the Pit Bull is quite willing and able to intercept an attack. The breed is credited with having exceptional judgement and will react only to real threats. Because of the Pit Bull’s generally poor guarding instincts and natural inclination to protect his owner if need be, it is best to stay away from any sort of guard or protection dog training. A good dog can be ruined quite easily, making for a wary, untrusting animal that may become a danger to humans. Do not try to make the Pit Bull into something he is not. If a serious guard or attack dog is what you desire, it is best to look to one of the breeds that have been specifically created for that type of work.

.........................................

It is dangerous to attempt to make a Pit Bull into something he is not. He is not a guard or attack dog. He is not an animal that is gregarious with other animals. These things must be recognized and accepted by a Pit Bull owner. Ignoring these things can cause problems for people and animals alike. Pit Bull owners must accept the breed for what it is, good traits along with the bad. If you are not prepared to accept certain facts about the breed and heed the advice of those who came before you, please look to another breed, one that is perhaps better suited to you.

*Note: There is an alarming trend among breeders to produce large, aggressive Pit Bulls for use in attack and guard work. The animals that these breeders are producing are not typical Pit Bulls. Indeed, many of these dogs may not even be Pit Bulls at all because in an effort to create a larger, more aggressive dog, some breeders have crossed mastiffs and other guarding breeds into their stock. The Pit Bull was never intended to be an attack breed. Pit Bulls that display the suspicious and wary attitude that many guard breeds display are incorrect in temperament. Breeders who are trying to produce guard and attack Pit Bulls are a detriment to the breed and should be avoided at all costs.

[theivoryqueen]

32. sorry to those I noramlly agree with but PB's should be banned

they are a bad breed to have in urban environments and the only folk I know who want them are gangsters or gangsta wanna be's. Maybe it's a texas thing, but everyone I have encountered with a pb is a southern fried convict or future criminal defense attorney client. Mean people want mean dogs and then treat them badly. No surprise. Luckily (first time I agree with them EVER) the insurance industry is amending premises liability coverage to exclude property owners who rent, own or possess these animals.