Tell Me About Being A Baptist

[AlFrankenFan]

Of all the religions I have been looking over, Baptist is the one that keeps on popping up in my mind. I've been searching for some kind of religious community to be a part of for about a year and a half. I feel I'm not as good a person as I could be, and though I know there are other ways to better yourself besides religion, I've been down that path before. My life is full of stress, because, as a very limited number of anyone knows, we have some bad problems in our family that are lifetime things that won't go away. I need a community of people that I can be with outside my family, to get away from things.

Now, I am a Jew by heritage. My mother, because she was married to my Episcopal father and then my Catholic step-father, never considered raising me through the local temple (which there really wasn't one where we lived in Virginia anyways). I've been to a few services and it's always been pretty obvious I'm the only one besides the little kids (who still have a few words on me) who doesn't know Hebrew. I never had a Bat Mitzvah, either. So, I've always felt like I missed out on a huge part of my life by not having any religion.

Baptist DUers, and any other Protestant DUers, please tell me about your church and it's teachings. DUers opposed to people being religious and such please don't flame because everyone has a right to their opinions and choices.

Peace.

[Melodybe]

1. Former Baptist here...

I grew up Southern Baptist, myself. I didn't care for it and wouldn't recommend it. Nice people, but not the most intelligent religion out there. Maybe the "general" baptists are better, though... *shrug*

If you are going to become religious/Christian, consider the unitarians or congregationalists. Much more freedom of thought and acceptance of differing opinions and interpretation of scripture.


Tamyrlin79 (on my friend's computer)

[AlFrankenFan]

2. Thank you :)

I definitely will, considering I guess I'm kind of a liberal.

[Rabrrrrrr]

3. Remember, there are different types of Baptists

There's the Southern Baptists, who were taken over a few years ago by extremists - these are the guys (the ones who took it over) who hate Disney for giving rights to gays, having gay days, and for putting "SEX" in the clouds in Lion King as well as other subliminal sexual messages in their animated movies. It's the Southern Baptists who have some of the eackiest senators and other government leaders.

(note: not all Southern Baptists are that way, but the denomination leadership is; your average pew sitting Southern Baptist is either duped into believing it, or part of the large cadre of people who think the leadership are mental)

There's Northern Baptists (maybe North American Baptists? It's NAB or NBA or ANB, and damn I can't remember) who tend to be much more socially progressive and liberal, though might still be theologically conservative.

There are also some other splinter baptists, and some independant baptists, most of whom tend toward the rightwing extremist set that believes that American = Christian = Republican.

Then there's the Anabaptists, who ended up being Amish and Mennonite.

So, choose your baptist church carefully. Generally, if you're in the south, you'll find independant or Southern Baptist. Anywhere else, you'll tend to find the other one - the BNA, NBA, etc. one I can't remember the name of.

I'm a member of the UCC, a denomination taht comes out of the Pilgrim and Puritan traditions (Conregationalist) and also the German Evengelical and Reformed traditions, as well as another American church that was simply called "The Christian Church". Those four (though not all Congregational Churches joined) merged in 1957 forming the UCC. The UCC tends to be socially liberal and theologically liberal, oft times diametrically opposed to the Southern Baptists, and opposed also to the teachings of Falwell and Robertson, etc. The UCC was one of the first churches to ordain Africa-Americans (in the 1800s), women (also in the 1800s), and homosexual men and women (starting in the 1970s, I believe, maybe 1960s). The UCC is also very active in social justice causes, and most of its misisonary work is based on helping people to find better ways of living, overcoming their oppressors, and finding economic means to eat. The UCC is also a bottom-up structure - the power is in the congregations, and the national offices are mostly administrative: no one has the power to speak for the UCC except the Synod, which is a representative gathering every two years. The president of the UCC does not speak for the UCC, though certainly he does speak publicly.

The UCC and the NAB, BNA, whatever, have a couple churches which share membership in both denominations. Riverside Church in NYC would be the most famous example.

[AlFrankenFan]

4. Ugh I remember that Lion King thing...

disgusting and an immature joke on the part of Disney but friggin' hilarious.

But I will definitely look into all the Baptist denominations and the UCC. Thank you :)

[Rabrrrrrr]

5. But the thing is, there isn't any "SEX" in the clouds,

nor are any of the moments that these guys claim Disney has put in subliminal sex stuff true or real. It's all crap, bogus claims, made by people who are the ones who ARE truly obsessed with sex, that they see it everywhere.

Unitarians might also be a good fit for you - they're pretty broad minded, and in a Unitarian service you might get a hindu prayer, a native american hymn, some Jewish readings, etc. "Unitarian Universalist" is their full name, abbreviated UU.Socially very liberal and committed to a lot of social justice ministries, and theologically VERY liberal. So much they can make the UCC look Orthodox sometimes.

[Az]

16. Snopes on Disney

Lion King Sex Conclusion: Undetermined
http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/lionking.htm

Littler Mermaid cover art conclusion: False
http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/mermaid.htm

[tjwash]

28. The Lion King/Little Mermaid fiasco...

...I always likened it to an ink blot test. A good insight to where their heads are is it not?

[pdx_prog]

39. It DID have "SEX" written out in the clouds....

When Simba flopped down on his belly....the leaves shot up into the air and "SEX" was vividely displayed. I bought my daughter the movie the day it came out. It was plain as day....the tape was eaten by my VCR, and I have looked at other tapes recently. It is not there anymore.....there is a resemblance of it, but it has been changed.

[AlFrankenFan]

43. Ya I found a site...

http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/lionking.htm

There are still frames on that page, but it wouldn't let me copy and paste it here.

[izzie]

11. In a bad time I returned to this church, Congregational and it was good

Since I like to think for my self this gave me that room yet it also gave me peace of mind.I grew up in this church and to think for your self was always taught as its main thing.

[tjwash]

27. "note: not all Southern Baptists are that way"

Yes they are. At least the ones in the boonie towns. I grew up a SB in Tennessee, and never saw a bigger bunch of judgmental hypocrites in my life, and I lived in the middle east for two years!

BTW, I am not sure, but instead of "Northern Baptist", you may be thinking "First Baptist?"

I'm a member of a UCC also. :hi:

[Rabrrrrrr]

29. I finally looked it up - it's American Baptist

and :hi: to you, fellow UCCer!

Southern Baptists really are a hardcore, judgmental, hypocritical bunch, totally obsessed with sex, sexuality, and what people are doing in their homes (which is odd, since they're so clearly against sex, that they'd spend so much time thinking and obsessing about it :-)).

I'd like to say that I don't know why people are attracted to such a version of Christianity, but sadly, I do know - fear. Fear of having to come up with one's own ideas and maybe being wrong; fear of other people; fear of other lifestyles; fear of other cultures; fear of other religions. Fear.

[TreasonousBastard]

6. Sounds like you're looking for...

some sort of spiritual fulfillment. Nothing unusual in that-- it comes with the territory of being human.

It also sounds like you're not all that impressed with the dogma or pageantry of Catholics and Episcopalians.

So, that leaves a whole slew of other possibilities. Baptists started out as a nondogmatic sect, but that has obviously changed for many of them. Quakers, Unitarians, and others have pretty much eschewed dogma for a personal relationship with God, or whatever.

Bahai's, Buddhists, Ethical Culturists, and the like are getting a bit further afield, and take a bit of homework before stepping in.

Personally, I became a Quaker (Religious Society of Friends) because of the lack of doctrine and the silent worship service. Raised Lutheran, I always thought the creeds and liturgies got in the way, and that is one of the basic concepts of Quakerism. Simplicity, and get to the point of it all without distraction. As Friends, we are all clergy, and we rarely agree on specific theological points, but we all have our beliefs. Some of those beliefs are extremely strong.

Ultimately, it doesn't really matter much which particular denomination you belong to, it is the individual congregation that
counts. Do the members, and clergy, generally support your personal spritual needs? Does the congregation support your concerns over politics, social justice, and your overall view of both secular and religious life? Are they there for you when you have a problem? Can and will you help them with their problems? Is there work for you to do that makes you more than just an occasional attender?

The congregation is an extended family. Does this family have the values that you admire and can fit in with?

Religion is much more than a set of beliefs. It is a way of life, and can be a very satisfying and productive one.

[pagerbear]

35. Please don't equate Episcopalians with dogma and pageantry

Episcopalians (Episcopal Church USA, the American branch of the Worldwide Anglican Communion) vary widely in worship style and beliefs. It's nearly impossible to pin down what Episcopalians believe as a whole, because every Episcopalian is encouraged to reason things out for him/herself. In fact, reason and tradition are considered equal to scripture as cornerstones of Anglican belief. As far as worship styles go, they vary much more widely within the denomination than outside it, in my experience.

Having said that, I must also state that individual members, congregations, and clergy members also vary widely in their beliefs. Some congregations can be quite fundy in their beliefs and their styles of worship. Witness the brouhaha over an openly gay bishop last year--some national churches outside the US and splinter groups within the US are talking about creating a separate equivalent to the Worldwide Anglican Communion or the Episcopal Church USA, but I don't see that happening. Interestingly, it is often the "high church" congregations--those with smells and bells--that are socially progressive in outreach and viewpoint. But not always.

I'm not telling you to try the Episcopal Church. That's up to you. Just wanted to clarify this point.

[Betty The Younger]

7. Its pretty simple.

First listen to see if Jesus is preached. If Jesus is preached then look at the preachers kids. If they're well behaved go to that church. If the preachers kids are not well behaved, even if he preaches Jesus don't go there. That method has never failed those truely looking to find the truth.

[tavalon]

8. Hi, I was raised Southern Baptist

but I got over it. Actually, though, the community was awesome if one could just not look at the hypocrisy. The reason I needed to leave is that I had questions and no one wanted to even take a stab at answering them. I can't count the number of times I got, "you just need to take it on faith" and many variations on the "because I said so" theme.

My experience with Judaism is that they encourage questions. Southern Baptists emphatically do not. Now this next part is pure opinion - I suspect the reason they discourage questions is because an awful lot of their dogma doesn't hold up to questioning.

[tavalon]

9. Have you considered UU?

They are progressive and liberal and really, given my own radical brand of living life, they are the only ones who could let me in their doors without having to burn me.

[Az]

15. UU Shout out!

Yay!

[LynneSin]

10. Big difference between Baptists and Southern Baptists

Southern Baptists tend to be fundie

Baptists are pretty normal. I volunteer from time to time at my local Planned Parenthood and one of their employees is a Baptist Minister. I was volunteering for the day, helping her out (she was also a woman) and I was shocked when she said she was a Baptist minister because I ultimately thought of the fundies. She was the one that told me that Baptists are very different from their Southern Cousins.

BTW, if you are looking for a progressive religious community I would recommend either the Quakers or if you need something a little more structured, the Universal Unitarians

[YellowRubberDuckie]

19. Lynn, pardon my skepticism, but...

QUAKERS? Progressive? That is shocking to me. And I love hearing that there is a woman as a Baptist Minister! I grew up Southern Baptist, so I'm like WOW! And she's a volunteer for Planned Parenthood! WOW! A baptist who has logic and knows that Planned Parenthood isn't just for people who want abortions. I've tried telling that to the people in the congregation where I grew up, but they won't listen. PP is EVIL EVIL and BAD! I'm shocked, and pleasantly surprised. Thanks for the info, Lynn. WOW!
Duckie

[Az]

20. Ever hung out with Quakers?

Their services are way to stoic for my taste. But their members tend to be very progressive thinking individuals. Their religion contends that each persons relationship with god is their own personal thing. Thus they are very much about independence and freedom.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

22. That is awesome!

It's just when you think Quakers, you don't think that. But that's awesome.
Duckie

[T_i_B]

31. When I think of Quakers

I cannot help but think of left wing politics. Quakers are well known for their pacifism for instance and Quakers are often associated with left wing politics.

I go to a Methodist church, and despite George Bush we are still seen as a progressive minded church. Certainly in my experience it is more slanted to the left rather than the right, although I tend towards the viewpoint that politics does not mix with religion, and vice versa.

As to the Baptist church, it seems pretty cool, but I do have a Strict Baptist church in my town and I'm not to sure what the difference is between that and regular Baptist churches other than a fondness for the King James version of the Bible.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

40. There are two kinds of Quakers

East Coast and Midwestern Quakers tend to be more liberal than those on the West Coast.

Some (not all) West Coast Quakers are dour, humorless types who could easily hang around with the Southern Baptists if only they weren't pacifists. One of their colleges, George Fox College in Newberg, Oregon, is rigid enough to be listed in directories of "Christian" colleges for young fundamentalists.

[Az]

42. That may be more a reflection of their service format

All Quaker services are very very dry events. As they expect each person the nuture their own relationship with god it consists mostly of hours of sitting in silence. I am Quaker friendly but I am an extroverted ADHD person and .... well bonkers is a word that comes to mind when sitting still for that long.

The upshot is that like any community there are going to be varities in expression in different locals. East or West coast Quakers are still going to be very independent. They will not suffer anyone else telling them what to think. And they will be staunchly pacifist.

[TreasonousBastard]

48. Not all.

About half of Quaker meetings worldwide are programmed, and many even have pastors. Some of them you wouldn't know were Quakers if you didn't see the sign on the door. Even sermons and hymn singing.

The midwest is full of programmed meetings, and the coasts are spotted with them.

Silent meetings used to be for hours, but now they last just about an hour, and you can speak if you have something to say. After the meeting, we always have a coffee hour and you can't shut us up. Potlucks and picnics are at least monthly affairs, and you still can't shut us up at those.

There may be some dour Quakers still around, but now we're pretty much like anyone else.

[TreasonousBastard]

46. Actually, there are three...

major Quaker groups, and even more divisions within those groups.

FGC, FUM, and the Evangelicals. Hicksite, Gurneyite, Liberal, Orthodox, Conservative.... Programmed, unprogrammed, mixed...

And at least one group that refuses to meet with any of the others, or even itself, and exists only in the aether.

For such a small group, it gets confusing. Even to us. And for such a peace-loving group, we do tend to often to battle to the death internally. But, once you find a meeting to your liking, it's a great place to be.

The Midwest seems to be the seat of the programmed Evangelicals, although I know of a few around here. The Richmond Declaration, signed in Richmond Indiana by a group of Orthodox Quakers in 1887, even contains doctrine <gasp!> although they don't see it quite that way.

The Midwest also seems to have the most politically conservative Quakers, and a number of us on the East and West coasts have been quite aghast at their apparent support of Just War. It's more a Midwest thing than a Quaker thing, though.

I know a number of Left Coast Quakers, and we get along just fine. Their meetings are a little different, but that's nothing unusual at all with Quakers.

[Loonman]

12. Not all Baptists are the stereotypical types you hear about

Like the Holy Joe TV preachers.

One of my best skateboarding buddies in HS was a devout Baptist, and he was hardly like the TV preacher types people constantly lambaste.

[Lars39]

13. Spirituality is not a high priority with SB's; conformity is tops.

The peer pressure and pressure from the pulpit to conform to the SB Convention is intense.

Women are to be submissive to men. They now believe that the bible is inerrant, ie without errors; it is all literally true.

Also if the doors are open, you are expected to be there. And if you miss a Sunday, or an event, chances are high that someone will ask you why you weren't at church.
Hardcore Southern Baptists are fundamentalists who I consider to be cultists at this point.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

21. I remember...

At one point, the pastor from my childhood was PRESIDENT of the SB Convention. God, I wanted to crawl in a hole. And like a month later he treated my mom like shit when my dad died. Then he did a sermon about how Gays deserve God's love, but how we should still hate them and chastise and try to turn them straight. I went up to him after the service and told him that I thought he was smarmy and I didn't think Jesus appreciated the hateful message and that I wouldn't be returning to church services. I said he was a hypocrite and no where in the bible did it say to chastise people and treat them like crap. Neither did it say to try to turn them straight. It said to show them God's love. Treat EVERYONE the same. He said I'm sorry you feel that way, but I stand by what I said. Apparently all his years of being brain washed by the SB Convention had worked, and they were probably so proud of him. God, I was so glad when he quit. Of course this was after I was already in College, and no longer into organized religion.
Duckie

[Lars39]

24. Good for you for telling him off!

These cultists are treated like gods themselves when they reach that level of power. They rarely, if ever hear anyone disagree with them.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

30. One of my former Sunday School teachers didn't speak to me for awhile.

But it was ok. I'm like if you are going to accept blindly what someone tells you without looking for yourself, you deserve the hell you will eventually burn in.
Duckie

[ProdigalJunkMail]

38. i don't suppose you lived in GA at the time?

sounds familiar...

theProdigal

[Az]

14. Perhaps you should tailor your church to what you believe

Try this survey. http://www.belief.net/story/76/story_7665_1.html It may give you some insite into which sect you are most likely to feel comfortable.

[Shopaholic]

17. I'm SB

and my church is very socially liberal. Unfortunately, it's also very conservative Republican politically. It just depends upon the Church. In my experience, most SB churches tend to be pretty independent of the national organization although you hear all this crap about the SB convention passing this thing or another-it just never seems to filter it's way down to the local churches-at least not the ones I've attended--could be that I seek out the liberal churches though.

[Az]

18. As an example my results from the survey

1. Secular Humanism (100%)
2. Unitarian Universalism (99%)
3. Liberal Quakers (87%)
4. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (81%)
5. Nontheist (74%)
6. Theravada Buddhism (74%)
7. Neo-Pagan (65%)
8. Bahá'í Faith (55%)
9. New Age (53%)
10. Taoism (52%)


It catchs my key philosophies pretty accurately.

[jukes]

23. respectfully

butting out! good luck w/your search, AFF, in all seriousness.

:pals:

[AlFrankenFan]

44. Thanks hon

I know it was hard for you to say :hug:

[TrogL]

25. You'd probably be happier in a liturgical branch of Christianity

Eg. Anglican/Episcopalean, Lutheran, Roman Catholic, Presbyterian

[sus]

26. I'd nail upholstery tacks into my eyeballs before I'd become a Baptist.

just my very humble opinion.

[elfwitch]

32. rediscover your Jewish heritage - try Reform Judaism

It would be worth you time, I think.

[supernova]

33. I second that

Not that I'm jewish, I'm Presbyterian. Kilt, anyone?

Revisiting the basics of your heritage and then fashioning it into something you can live with and enjoy can provide certain rewards.

[Az]

34. There is also Humanist Judaism

Not as wide spread as Reform but it maintains the traditions without the dogma.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

36. If you must be a Baptist, then join the American Baptist church

not the Southern Baptist church. The American Baptists are reasonable people, and so many Southern Baptists are not. (Consider that they split off from the American Baptists because they supported slavery.)

Also, any church that claims to be "non-denominational" is actually free-lance fundamentalist. This means that there's no "quality control" at the top if the minister starts to go REALLY crazy.

I'm an Episcopalian who was raised Lutheran. We have lovely services and music, and even though the stereotype is that "Episcopalians would send you to hell for eating your salad with your dinner fork," the denomination is not dominated by snooty rich people. There are Episcopalians of all ethnic groups and social classes, and you are allowed to question and think for yourself--in most parishes, let me add. There are some parishes, particularly those that brag about "the continuing Anglican tradition," that are full of tight-assed prudes.

But you'll find those in any denomination.

On the whole, though, before you settle on any one denomination or church, visit a LOT of different kinds of churches, as well as a lot of different kinds of Jewish organizations. In Portland, there were a couple of Jewish congregations that were specifically for people who had not grown up in or were estranged from the tradition, whether they were converts or Jewish by ancestry.

As you search, one church or temple will eventually just feel like home right away. It's hard to describe, but I always know it when I feel it, wherever I go.

[southpaw]

37. I call myself a Recovering Baptist...

A term I borrowed from Tori Amos (remember the Recovering Christian tour?)

I was, at different times, a Southern Baptist and an Independent Missionary Baptist.

Fear, guilt, bigotry, hellfire and damnation all come to mind when I think of Baptists.

Seek a more open denomination: UU or Quaker sound good... or read "Conversations with God" by Neale Donald Walsh


Q: Why do Baptists frown on having sex while standing up?

A: It could lead to dancing.

[pdx_prog]

41. It all boils down to this...

Jews do not recognize Jesus as the savior....

Mormons do not recognize the bible as the only teachings of God...

Baptists do not recognize each other in the liquor stores on Saturday nights...

[Nikia]

45. Many Protestant denominations vary by church

Even within the same suborganization. I've been to three different United Methodist churches, for example in the same area, which were entirely different in their preaching, music, and general slant. I've also been to different Evangelical Luthern, Presbyterian, UCC, Baptist, and Episcopal churches that varied significantly. Many Protestant churches are liberal leaning and include thinking for oneself in reading scripture and what they mean to onesself. Some focus less on the sins emphasized by the Religious Right and more on service and compassion to others. Since churches do vary though, the best way to choose a church, would be to go to services. Although some might try pester you into coming back, services are free and easy to participate in (be sure to get a program).

[Kipepeo]

47. I was raised Southern Baptist

and it was a horrible experience. It took a long time to get over all the hatred they tried to instill in me against women, gays and lesbians, people of color, people of other faiths, and (gasp) liberals.

I would never recommend it. Maybe plain old Baptists are better but I would guess they are being slowly taken over by conservative right-wingers as well.

Just my opinion as a recovered Southern Baptist.