Can someone help me with my Western Civilization homework

[GingerSnaps]

I am going crazy trying to answer 4 questions out of 25 and I desperately need some help.

1.What is the relationship of geography to settlement? Give examples: Think Egypt, Tigris-Euphrates.

2. What role did the church play in the world after the fall of the Western Roman Empire? Be specific.

3. Why was the religion of Islam so successful?

4. Who was the most important person in the Roman Empire and what contributions did he make? Give examples?


I would greatly appreciate any help that anyone can give.

[Syrinx]

1. I think your textbook might be biased

ha ha

[GingerSnaps]

2. I'm f*cked

The whole time that my Professor was talking about the Roman Empire I kept think about Bush and the Rethugs.

God I need some help on this shit real bad.

[wickerwoman]

3. I'll rephrase some questions if you like:

(Although I don't know the prof or what he's looking for so take these with a grain of salt.)

1.) What are the Tigris and Euphrates? Where are most of the people in Egypt settled?

2.) What happened in Western Europe between the fall of the Roman Empire and the Renaissance? What role did the church play in this?

3.) Try comparing Islam with Judaism or Christianity. How do you become a Jew or Christian? How do you become a Muslim?

4.) This one seems to be up to you. Who do you think was the most important person? It doesn't have to be a Caesar (apparently).

[cleofus1]

4. hey there dude

1.What is the relationship of geography to settlement? Give examples: Think Egypt, Tigris-Euphrates.

People settle where there is water and tillable soil...

2. What role did the church play in the world after the fall of the Western Roman Empire? Be specific.

Helped spread western culture to the east.
The decay of Rome has been frequently ascribed to the translation of the seat of empire but this history has already shown that the powers of Government were divided rather than removed. The throne of Constantinople was erected in the East; while the West was still possessed by a series of emperors who held their residence in Italy, and claimed their equal inheritance of the legions and provinces. This dangerous novelty impaired the strength and fomented the vices of a double reign: the instruments of an oppressive and arbitrary system were multiplied; and a vain emulation of luxury, not of merit, was introduced and supported between the degenerate successors of Theodosius. Extreme distress, which unites the virtue of a free people, embitters the factions of a declining monarchy. The hostile favourites of Arcadius and Honorius betrayed the republic to its common enemies; and the Byzantine court beheld with indifference, perhaps with pleasure, the disgrace of Rome, the misfortunes of Italy, and the loss of the West. Under the succeeding reigns the alliance of the two empires was restored; but the aid of the Oriental Romans was tardy, doubtful, and ineffectual; and the national schism of the Greeks and Latins was enlarged by the perpetual difference of language and manners, of interests, and even of religion. Yet the salutary event approved in some measure the judgment of Constantine. During a long period of decay his impregnable city repelled the victorious armies of barbarians, protected the wealth of Asia, and commanded, both in peace and war, the important straits which connect the Euxine and Mediterranean seas. The foundation of Constantinople more essentially contributed to the preservation of the East than to the ruin of the West.



3. Why was the religion of Islam so successful?

The egalitarian nature of the philosophy allows people to assimilate easily. Western academics have credited much of Islam’s historical success to the simplicity of its message. Islam calls upon people to worship one God, directly and without intermediaries, and to follow the rules that Allah has established for them. It is a straightforward and universal message that excludes no one and is comprehensible to all, regardless of cultural background or educational level.

Today, Islam remains the fastest-growing religion in the world. It continues to win new adherents in Africa, Europe and the Americas. While traditional means of instruction and proselytizing remain important, the message of Islam is spread increasingly through modern technologies, such as the Internet.

4. Who was the most important person in the Roman Empire and what contributions did he make? Give examples?



Constantine held the center and kept the empire from disappearing completely...transforming it to the holy roman empire...
In 324 AD, Constantine finally achieved full control over an undivided empire. He re-located the imperial headquarters to Byzantium, and changed the name of the city to Constantinople. He was a skillful politician who is popularly believed to have made Christianity the official religion of the empire because of his personal convictions. In actuality, that act was merely an expedient intended to harness the power of its "God" for the benefit of the state.
Despite his outward enthusiasm for Christianity and its powerful God, he didn't close many pagan temples during his reign. He did, however, strip them of their former wealth and shifted it to various Christian churches. This produced the result that many of the fledgling churches were put on a very firm financial footing and many of their members enjoyed great prosperity. The persecution of Christianity had stopped, perhaps, but its co-opting had just begun.



ps...much of this was culled from internet sources so beware...

[GingerSnaps]

5. Thanks Dude

Shit can I take you out to dinner some time for this help.

[GingerSnaps]

6. I have a few more

What were the major achievements of the Byzantine Empire?

What were the crusades called and how did they go wrong?

What were the major factors that caused the Roman Empire to Decline and End?

[cleofus1]

7. some info

The Byzantine Empire provided an environment where people of all races and cultures could mingle into one. Byzantine was mostly influenced by the Ancient Greeks and Romans, and later on, Asia.

Mosaic
Byzantine achievements in mosaic decoration brought this art to an unprecedented level of monumentality and expressive power. Mosaics were applied to the domes, half-domes, and other available surfaces of Byzantine churches in an established hierarchical order. The center of the dome was reserved for the representation of the Pantocrator, or Jesus as the ruler of the universe, whereas other sacred personages occupied lower spaces in descending order of importance.

The entire church thus served as a tangible evocation of the celestial order; this conception was further enhanced by the stylized poses and gestures of the figures, their hieratic gaze, and the luminous shimmer of the gold backgrounds. Because of the destruction of many major monuments in Constantinople proper, large ensembles of mosaic decoration have survived chiefly outside the capital, in such places as Salonica, Nicaea, and Daphni in Greece and Ravenna in Italy.

Painting
An important aspect of Byzantine artistic activity was the painting of devotional panels, since the cult of icons played a leading part in both religious and secular life. Icon painting usually employed the encaustic technique. Little scope was afforded individuality; the effectiveness of the religious image as a vehicle of divine presence was held to depend on its fidelity to an established prototype. A large group of devotional images has been preserved in the monastery of St. Catherine on Mt. Sinai.

The development of Byzantine painting may also be seen in manuscript illumination. Among notable examples of Byzantine illumination are a lavishly illustrated 9th-century copy of the Homilies of Gregory Nazianzus and two works believed to date from a 10th-century revival of classicism, the Joshua Rotulus (or Roll) and the Paris Psalter.

Other Arts
Enamel, ivory, and metalwork objects of Byzantine workmanship were highly prized throughout the Middle Ages; many such works are found in the treasuries of Western churches. Most of these objects were reliquaries or devotional panels, although an important series of ivory caskets with pagan subjects has also been preserved. Byzantine silks, the manufacture of which was a state monopoly, were also eagerly sought and treasured as goods of utmost luxury.

[artfan]

8. my 2 cents

1) rivers allowed/ encouraged permanent settlements as opposted to nomadic lifestyles. (the soil was rich so agriculture was possible, gauranteed water supply, transportation) in egypt when the nile flooded it was a good thing the flooding covered the nearby area with rich organic soil and it was VERY easy to plant in.

2) many roles but the authority of church was huge kings wanted/needed the support of the church think 'divine right to rule' kings were more divine than regular people they ruled because GOD said so this solidified the power of the Kings because rebelling against the king was like rebelling against GOD

3)direct relationship with god was appealing individuals communicated directly with the divine not through a middleman (priest) keep in mind that the koran laid out the rules no fumbeling around trying to figure out what was right/wrong women had more rights in Islam than in the European Church

4 be careful on this one the question refers to Empire not Republic. look at who was key to establishing the Empire and the laid the foundation for the expansion of the Empire

[GingerSnaps]

16. Thanks for pointing that out

:loveya:

[JSJ]

9. 4/4 not bad...

1- people settle by rivers, on plains, and so forth for reasons specific to their culture
2- church became a force of conquest and 'civilization' thereby supplanting the Romans after their fall
3- no competition
4- marcus aurelius--- statesman, poet, humanitarian

[cleofus1]

10. how about marius?

Rise of Marius



OK maybe he was just interesting...
With his new found good fortune, coming in the form of marriage to Julia Caesar, and his apparent reconciliation with the Metelli family, Marius was in a position to make political strides. At this time, the War with Jugurtha had been carrying on for nearly 4 years in Numidia. With no settlement in sight, and charges of corruption and bribery running rampant against the Roman generals in charge of the operation, Quintus Caecilius Metellus was elected Consul in 109 BC. Charged with carrying out the Roman war effort against Jugurtha, Metellus knew Marius was a quality soldier, and appointed him to serve as his chief Legate.

Metellus’ first two years in Africa were much the same result as his predecessors. Aside from some minor victories by Marius, the Romans did little to really alter the situation. Marius, sensing the political and popular frustration in Rome, had the perfect opportunity to run for Consul on the basis of being able to finish the war. His time spent as Metellus’ subordinate was put to good use by ensuring good terms and popularity among the legionaries. He put the word out to those friends he had in Rome that he alone could win the war, and that the people must elect him. Campaigning essentially through others, and in abstentia, Marius went to Metellus to request dismissal from his service so that he could return to Rome for proper campaigning. Marius was abruptly refused and was forced to continue using his client base to run his campaign. Presenting himself as the blunt, honest general with more capability, and without personal motivation, he was presented as the popular alternative to patrician ineptness and corruption. Eventually, with the stalemate in Numidia continuing, the strategy worked, and in 107 BC Gaius Marius was elected Consul for the first time.

Metellus was recalled even though the senate wanted to continue his service in Numidia as Proconsul. Through more political wrangling (some say illegal), Marius managed to be appointed as commander in Africa. Due to a military crisis from Germanic victories in Gaul, Marius was forced to take unprecendented measures and recruit his armies from the Roman landless masses. Even so, within two years, Marius completed what he said he would, conquering Numidia and putting an end to the war. Though, there was military success in the field, it was through the service of a young patrician officer, Lucius Cornelius Sulla that the war finally came to a close. Jugurtha himself was betrayed by his ally Bocchus, the King of Mauretania, into the arms of the Romans. Sulla organized the capture, but Marius, having Imperium as Consul, would receive the credit, while Sulla maintained the war only ended through his achievement. The incident was the beginning of a terrible rivalry between the two men that would have monumental repercussions in later years.

For the time being, however, Marius was at the beginning of his hold on Roman political power. Germanic invasions into northern Italy would propel Marius to new heights and his reform of the armies would have an impact on the Roman social structure, previously unmatched. Even the attempted reforms of the Gracchi brothers would pale in comparison to what Marius did.


also try googling Trajan or any of the 5 good emperors...

[cleofus1]

11. the crusades

The Peoples Crusades

[GingerSnaps]

12. Thanks

I appreciate your help.

[cleofus1]

13. a brief article re the fall

Reasons for the fall of the Roman Empire
All left Rome open to outside invaders
adapted from History Alive material
There were many reasons for the fall of the Roman Empire. Each one intertwined with the next. Many even blame the introduction of Christianity for the decline. Christianity made many Roman citizens into pacifists, making it more difficult to defend against the barbarian attackers. Also money used to build churches could have been used to maintain the empire. Although some argue that Christianity may have provided some morals and values for a declining civilization and therefore may have actually prolonged the imperial era.

Decline in Morals and Values

Those morals and values that kept together the Roman legions and thus the empire could not be maintained towards the end of the empire. Crimes of violence made the streets of the larger cities unsafe. Even during PaxRomana there were 32,000 prostitutes in Rome. Emperors like Nero and Caligula became infamous for wasting money on lavish parties where guests ate and drank until they became ill. The most popular amusement was watching the gladiatorial combats in the Colosseum. These were attended by the poor, the rich, and frequently the emperor himself. As gladiators fought, vicious cries and curses were heard from the audience. One contest after another was staged in the course of a single day. Should the ground become too soaked with blood, it was covered over with a fresh layer of sand and the performance went on.

Public Health

There were many public health and environmental problems. Many of the wealthy had water brought to their homes through lead pipes. Previously the aqueducts had even purified the water but at the end lead pipes were thought to be preferable. The wealthy death rate was very high. The continuous interaction of people at the Colosseum, the blood and death probable spread disease. Those who lived on the streets in continuous contact allowed for an uninterrupted strain of disease much like the homeless in the poorer run shelters of today. Alcohol use increased as well adding to the incompetency of the general public.

Political Corruption

One of the most difficult problems was choosing a new emperor. Unlike Greece where transition may not have been smooth but was at least consistent, the Romans never created an effective system to determine how new emperors would be selected. The choice was always open to debate between the old emperor, the Senate, the Praetorian Guard (the emperor's's private army), and the army. Gradually, the Praetorian Guard gained complete authority to choose the new emperor, who rewarded the guard who then became more influential, perpetuating the cycle. Then in 186 A. D. the army strangled the new emperor, the practice began of selling the throne to the highest bidder. During the next 100 years, Rome had 37 different emperors - 25 of whom were removed from office by assassination. This contributed to the overall weaknesses of the empire.

Unemployment

During the latter years of the empire farming was done on large estates called latifundia that were owned by wealthy men who used slave labor. A farmer who had to pay workmen could not produce goods as cheaply. Many farmers could not compete with these low prices and lost or sold their farms. This not only undermined the citizen farmer who passed his values to his family, but also filled the cities with unemployed people. At one time, the emperor was importing grain to feed more than 100,000 people in Rome alone. These people were not only a burden but also had little to do but cause trouble and contribute to an ever increasing crime rate.

Inflation

The roman economy suffered from inflation (an increase in prices) beginning after the reign of Marcus Aurelius. Once the Romans stopped conquering new lands, the flow of gold into the Roman economy decreased. Yet much gold was being spent by the romans to pay for luxury items. This meant that there was less gold to use in coins. As the amount of gold used in coins decreased, the coins became less valuable. To make up for this loss in value, merchants raised the prices on the goods they sold. Many people stopped using coins and began to barter to get what they needed. Eventually, salaries had to be paid in food and clothing, and taxes were collected in fruits and vegetables.

Urban decay

Wealthy Romans lived in a domus, or house, with marble walls, floors with intricate colored tiles, and windows made of small panes of glass. Most Romans, however, were not rich, They lived in small smelly rooms in apartment houses with six or more stories called islands. Each island covered an entire block. At one time there were 44,000 apartment houses within the city walls of Rome. First-floor apartments were not occupied by the poor since these living quarters rented for about $00 a year. The more shaky wooden stairs a family had to climb, the cheaper the rent became. The upper apartments that the poor rented for $40 a year were hot, dirty, crowed, and dangerous. Anyone who could not pay the rent was forced to move out and live on the crime-infested streets. Because of this cities began to decay.

Inferior Technology

During the last 400 years of the empire, the scientific achievements of the Romans were limited almost entirely to engineering and the organization of public services. They built marvelous roads, bridges, and aqueducts. They established the first system of medicine for the benefit of the poor. But since the Romans relied so much on human and animal labor, they failed to invent many new machines or find new technology to produce goods more efficiently. They could not provide enough goods for their growing population. They were no longer conquering other civilizations and adapting their technology, they were actually losing territory they could not longer maintain with their legions.

Military Spending

Maintaining an army to defend the border of the Empire from barbarian attacks was a constant drain on the government. Military spending left few resources for other vital activities, such as providing public housing and maintaining quality roads and aqueducts. Frustrated Romans lost their desire to defend the Empire. The empire had to begin hiring soldiers recruited from the unemployed city mobs or worse from foreign counties. Such an army was not only unreliable, but very expensive. The emperors were forced to raise taxes frequently which in turn led again to increased inflation.


THE FINAL BLOWS
For years, the well-disciplined Roman army held the barbarians of Germany back. Then in the third century A. D. the Roman soldiers were pulled back from the Rhine-Danube frontier to fight civil war in Italy. This left the Roman border open to attack. Gradually Germanic hunters and herders from the north began to overtake Roman lands in Greece and Gaul (later France). Then in 476 A. D. the Germanic general Odacer or Odovacar overthrew the last of the Roman Emperors, Augustulus Romulus. From then on the western part of the Empire was ruled by Germanic chieftain. Roads and bridges were left in disrepair and fields left untilled. Pirates and bandits made travel unsafe. Cities could not be maintained without goods from the farms, trade and business began to disappear. And Rome was no more in the West.

[cleofus1]

14. the first emperor

augustus




Whether you date the reign of Augustus to Actium (31 B.C.) or the first constitutional settlement and the adoption of the name Augustus, Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus (aka Augustus) ruled Rome until his death in 14 A.D.

Augustus or Octavius (as he was called until the adoption by Caesar) was born 23 September, 63 BC. In 48 B.C. he was elected to the pontifical college. In 45 he followed Caesar to Spain. In 43 or 42 Caesar named Octavius Master of Horse. In March 44 B.C. when his great-uncle Caesar died, Octavius discovered he had been adopted.

Octavian styled himself Caesar and gathered troops (from Brundisium and along the road) as he went to Rome to have his adoption made official. There Antony prevented him from standing for office and blocked his adoption.

Through the oratory of Cicero, not only was Octavian's close to illegal command of troops legitimized, but also Antony was declared a public enemy. Octavian then marched on Rome with eight legions and was made consul in 43.

The second triumvirate soon formed (legally). Octavian gained control of Sardinia, Sicily, and Africa; Antony (no longer a public enemy), Cisalpine and Transalpine Gaul; M. Aemilius Lepidus, Spain and Gallia Narbonensis. They revived proscriptions, an extra-legal means of padding their treasury, and pursued those who had killed Caesar. From then on Octavian acted to secure his troops and to concentrate the power in himself.

Relations deteriorated between Octavian and Antony in 32 B.C. when Antony renounced his wife Octavia in favor of Cleopatra. Augustus took Roman troops to fight the Roman traitor and defeated him decisively in a sea battle in the Ambracian gulf, near the promontory of Actium.

Over the next few decades the new powers of Augustus, the one leader of Rome had to be ironed out through two constitutional settlements and then the added title of Pater Patriae father of the country that was given him in 2 B.C.

Despite serious illnesses, Augustus managed to outlive various men he had been grooming as successor. Augustus died in 14 A.D. and was succeeded by his son-in-law Tiberius

[GingerSnaps]

22. I owe you big time

I might get one or two hours of sleep before my classes.

Thanks :loveya:

[ronabop]

15. Re Geography and settlement:

Shipping and Defensability haven't been mentioned. Shipping builds economy, defense means that the settlement isn't easily replaced or diplaced.

Something to note: Even in an age of airplanes and large land transport, we still call transport of goods "shipping".

-Bop

[Spider Jerusalem]

17. Shipping and defence not mentioned...

because they aren't essential to primary settlement. Arable land, water, forestation (timber for building and fuel) and grasslands for grazing livestock tended to be the main factors that influenced settlement of the early nomadic wanderers who established the first civilisations. Trade and military considerations were secondary, at least at first, and in that region of the world much of the land at the time consisted of fairly flat, open plain, easily traversed (shipping per se not being much done as yet; only small boats on rivers and in the Mediterranean and Arabian Seas). And as to defence, towns were built with walls, usually of stone or mud brick, and one or two entrance gates. The natural geography of the Nile Valley and Tigris-Euphrates plain meant that lookouts atop the walls or in towers had a fairly good view for several miles around the settlement (which, given the speed of travel and state of weaponry, meant plenty of time to determine if a threat existed and formulate a response).

[cleofus1]

20. navigable waters

the ganges...the yellow river...the amazon...the Tigris euphrates...the misissippi...the colorodo...the danube...the nile...were all navigable waters...so ports o call and shipping eventually took hold and were part of the success of these early city states.

[left is right]

18. #4

I seem to remember reading a long long time ago that the most important person was actually a group--the slaves, it was the slaves that performed all of the public work projects, taught the chidren, they were the fodder for the entertainment industry--think gladiators.

[LARED]

19. Do your own homework, but here's some tips

1.What is the relationship of geography to settlement? Give examples: Think Egypt, Tigris-Euphrates.

Think about the relationship between the supply of resources (water, waterways, fuel, suitable land, etc) and the demand for resources.

2. What role did the church play in the world after the fall of the Western Roman Empire? Be specific.

There is something like 500,000 books written about this. Basically the Church took control of society rather than the largely secular government of Rome.

3. Why was the religion of Islam so successful?

Got me.

4. Who was the most important person in the Roman Empire and what contributions did he make? Give examples?

Constantine is often cited.

[GingerSnaps]

21. Thanks guys

Don't ever take 5 courses and once and try to work at the same time.

Overload and I hate history.

Thanks

[Bridget Burke]

28. Don't "hate" history.

This isn't just a bunch of BS made up to supply employment for teachers. Religion & resources are still pretty hot topics.

I seriously recommend that you try to learn a few things while you've got the chance. And don't stop learning when your formal education is done.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

23. Some answers

1. Geography is vital to settlement. Water, be it rivers, lakes, or harborages on the ocean, played a key factor in the development of cities. In Ancient Egypt, the entire culture was built around the Nile, because it was the one waterway in a desert-like setting. And water is vital to growing crops. The Tigris and Euphrates helped give rise to the Babylonian culture; Tyre was an important city because of its seaport. This is seen over and over again throughout history-look at the largest cities today-all are on water, and most are important ports.

2. The Church helped to hold together society after the fall of the Roman Empire. It was through the church that European kings were able to cement their hold on power-they declared themselves 'divinely appointed'.

3. The religion of Islam was successful because of its tolerance (people were not forced to convert-Jews and Christians were allowed to live in peace in Islamic society. Yes, they paid a special tax, but they were not required to be soldiers, either) and the common-sense attitude found in the Qur'an. Divorce was allowed, women given more rights than ever before, all Muslims treated equally in fellowship-a poor person could rise to power in the classical Islamic world.

4. Ceasar Augustus initiated imperial edicts such as an empire wide census and deployment of armies and governors that would be used as a model in later years by other empires.

[GingerSnaps]

24. I have two more that I can't find and I need help on

What were the Crusades called? How did they go wrong?


Make a list of the major achievements of Charlemagne.

[Loonman]

25. Geez

That's easy stuff. You need to do more reading.

[cleofus1]

26. hey fellow historians!

What was the crusades called? I looked into pope Urban's initial speech and could find nothing...zip zero zilch...

the peoples liberation of the holy land...maybe?
or the peoples crusade?

[cleofus1]

27. any other thoughts in this subject?

it is a worthy thread...

[AngryAmish]

29. #3 - Better military

Spread of Islam was mostly done at the point of a sword. The concept of jihad allowed them to put infidels to death once they refused to join Islam.

Islamic/Arab troops had better tactics, as well as better esprit de corps that a common religion allows them. Islam is a very wide open religion. One can join very easily - just call oneself a Muslim and its done.

Classical Islam (pre-Mongol invasion) also offered a unified government and religion that made ruling easy (this is an oversimplification but mostly true.) The Calif could rule mostly in a unified manner. However, there were always Shia who were not part of the Caliphate, but Sunni Islam was remarkably unified.

Then the Mongols came and killed the Calif. Islam was never the same. But Islam also changed the Mongols, so....

[cleofus1]

30. Saladin

the mantle of Islamic leadership fell on a Kurdish officer named Salah ed-Din, or Saladin as he is commonly known in the West. Saladin was arguably the greatest of Muslim generals, and possessed an appealing and admirable character. In 1187 he caught the entire army of the Kingdom of Jerusalem at the mountain known as the Horns of Hattin, near the Sea of Galilee, and annihilated it. Within a few months he held all of the Kingdom except for the seaport of Tyre and a nearby castle.

Tyre held out, however, and the West once again came to the aid of the Crusader states by mounting the Third Crusade. Led by King Richard the Lion-Hearted of England, King Philip II Augustus of France, and Emperor Frederick Barbarossa, it managed to recover much of the lost territory. It passed into European and Muslim folklore as a time of great chivalry, particularly between Saladin and Richard the Lion-Hearted, who became the principle crusade leader. But despite Richard's best efforts, Jerusalem was not recovered. Both Richard and the local barons agreed that unless the powerbase of Egypt was in friendly hands, Jerusalem could not be kept even if it could be captured.

[Bridget Burke]

31. Not just military.....

Christians & Jews were generally allowed to keep their faiths. They were not put to death. Considering the divisions in Christianity in those days, the simplicity of Islamic belief was quite attractive & led to conversions. "Pagan" believers fared less well.

After the caliphate, Islam continued to be spread by traders & preachers. And it continues to grow.

[AngryAmish]

32. Lets not fool ourselves

Just like everything in those days, the spread of Islam left behind many, many corpses. It was a military and governmental take-over. Islam was not spread by hippys. It was spread by hard men convinced that their religion was the only way. And they were willing to kill for their belief.

Christians and Jews were sometimes allowed to keep their religion, but they were second-class citizens. I believe the name of their position was dhimmi. They were barred from most high profile professions and had to wear clothing identifying themselves as non-Muslim. There were exceptions where Jews and Christians could rise, but those were exceptions.

[cleofus1]

33. yow...

could you source some of this? I'd like to read up on your perspective...

[cleofus1]

34. here's some more background

To our Western minds, reared on the Hollywood version of so much history, the Crusades mean noble knights rescuing damsels in distress. Oy vey -- is that ever a lie.

Now, it's true that there were knights, and there were kings, and there was a chivalric ideal. And that King Richard the Lionhearted, a Crusade leader, (who was incidentally one of the worst kings England ever had) was definitely a macho warrior. But that's pretty much where it ends.

The Crusades turned into campaigns of slaughter, rape, and pillage, and woe to the poor Jews in the way. Indeed, the Crusades mark the first large-scale mob violence directed against Jews which is going to become, unfortunately, the pattern for the next hundreds of years. The later pogroms are just going to be a repeat of this idea.


The Jews were not the only -- and in fact, not the primary -- victims of the Crusaders. Muslims were.

The Jews were not the only -- and in fact, not the primary -- victims of the Crusaders. Muslims were. If you're a student of Islamic history, you know that a large part of the reason why the Arab world is today the way it is has to do with the Crusades. All the brutality directed toward them devastated the Arab peoples economically, made the Arab world very closed, and contributed to Arab hatred of the West.

(Why do Arabs paint the doors of their houses blue to this day? To ward off the evil eye. Why blue? One explanation is that it was the color of the blue-eyed northern Europeans that came to slay them.)

[AngryAmish]

37. Do you really think

that the folks on this site are warm and fuzzy over the Crusades?

However, I submit that a bigger blow to the Islamic world was the Mongol invasion. Since then, there has been no truly legit Calif and no truly unified political Islam. I have not read it but Bernard Lewis wrote a book called "What Went Wrong" with a similar thesis. And I understand what a hated figure Lewis is, but it makes sense to me.

Wars are about economics and power. Usually religion is used as a figleaf. Just as the Crusades were cruel and rapacious, the spread of Islam was cruel and rapacious.

[cleofus1]

38. i'm not sure what you mean....

these are merely perspectives not a (ahem) crusade on my part...

[AngryAmish]

39. Agreed

Sorry to jump down your throat.

[cleofus1]

40. no problem...

I just love history and the more perspectives the better!

[AngryAmish]

35. Can't cite books right now

However, the Ottoman empire tried to sack Constantinople 3 or more times before it fell. They got to Vienna three times but never got in. Each time it was a military invasion.

Battle of Tours (France). One of the most pivotal battles in world history where French troops held back the Islamists from Spain.

Why is Islam so strong in majority Hindu India? Well, the Shiite Tamerlane (Timur - a Mongol warlord) ran through India, sacking cities and leaving behind pyramids of skulls. It is estimated his sacking of Bombay killed over 70,000 people. Then he left. However, his descendants ruled over much of India for hundreds of years (Timurid dynasty) and left behind much of the grand architecture of India including the Taj Majal. Plus the Raj found many sapoys and puppet rulers among the Muslim population of India. The mutiny got started because of a rumor that the cartridges were encased in pig fat.

[cleofus1]

36. check out this website for the jewish perspective

http://www.aish.com/literacy/jewishhistory/Crash_Course_in_Jewish_History_Part_45_-_The_Crusades.asp