Is the military really a respectable profession?

[LostInAnomie]

I was thinking about this today and I know I will get some flack for it.

Why do we respect the military as an honorable profession? In spite of their grandiose claims of defending our freedom, and fighting for the American way they are still agreeing to kill. Not only are they agreeing to kill when they enlist, but they are agreeing to kill no matter what cause they are sent for. How is this respectable?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. I think it is, except when misused

I thought it was very respectable to prevent the Bosnians and Somalians from genocide. It's not the soldier that picks the battle, unfortunately, and I think you hit on that part, but it is a very important job to our country, and if we didn't promote it as such, who in their right mind would join?

[underpants]

2. Yes, any public service is honorable and respectable

oops did I put them in there with "bureaucrats"?

It really is a respectable profession and they are professionals at what they do....some of them.

[LostInAnomie]

4. I'll agree that they provide a useful function...

... but utility does not mean respectable.

They are still agreeing to kill for little reason beyond being told that they are to do so.

[Parrcrow]

3. It is often the top brass in the military who understand most clearly...

what a horrible mess war is. Its the chicken-hawks who think its a Schwarzenegger movie. The average soldier in the military right now went in for employment and hopefully civilian applicable training or college tuition help. This is not to undermine their desire to serve their country.

The real problem is the safe distance chicken-hawks.

[TX-RAT]

5. Looks like somebody's fishing.

Are you trying to insult the vets here.

[TrogL]

6. Which country?

[UrbScotty]

7. Of course. Many in my extended family served.

My dad was a Reservist, both of my grandpas served in World War II, as did many of my great-uncles.

One of my great-uncles died in Korea.

[nedlogg]

8. I was in the Navy

The "job" part of it was great. In fact, pay notwithstanding, it was proboably the best "job" I've ever had.

However, the military part of it sucked. In my young mind at the time, it was not a whole lot better than being in prison. But then again, I'm not one who does well with authority and not being able to tell someone to go fuck themselves if the need arises.

[qazplm]

9. yes

what does agreeing to kill have to do with it?

Police agree to kill when they sign up as it may be something they are called upon to do in defense of others.

Or are you now saying that being a police officer is not a respectable profession?

What is so "grandiose" about the claim of defending our freedom?
Our freedom was certainly defended in 1812, and 1941...the freedom of others was defended in 1861, 1917, and 1950s with Korea, and 1991 in the Gulf.

The problem is not the profession of soldiers, but the profession of civilian leaders OVER those soldiers.

[beanball]

16. The Gulf War #1

whose freedom did we defend?

[Deja Q]

10. Blindly respect... I will fully consciously respect it when

* it is ran by ethical and moral people
* it is used judiciously and not for wanton acts of conquest by deranged leaders
* it does not create logos that use a bird's talons clenching the Earth with a sword-like figure rammed through the middle of the Earth (Mix the "KAOS" logo and the star trek mirror universe logos and presto, you've basically got our Marine logo!)
* Those in the military don't do dishonorable things - or those who do be punished and shown to the world as examples, given the weight of the US military is around the world (anyone making comments about Abu Gharib being a prank, et al, is incredibly myopic, to say the VERY least. (worst of all, * praises Rumsfeld as being a good leader when all is said and done too. x( )

Right now, I do respect the military to an extent. Not all in it are bad people or people who made a bad decision. But the acts of a few tarnish the whole. Giving the impression that we don't punish our wrongdoers is only going to anger a lot of people and I'm amazed * and Rummy haven't caused the whole world to revolt against us. Yet.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

18. Hypno... ever consider the time factor on those symbols?

The Marine Corps logo goes back a Long, long time... long before KAOS and StarTrek...

methinks it is possible those people commandeered the USMC logo for their fiction.

capiche?

[arbusto_baboso]

11. Let's NOT go too deep into this one, buddy!

I served (and would again, if we didn't have a psycho in the Oval Office), and always thought the profession was honorable and respectable.

Why, you may ask? Well, for me - and many others with whom I served - I knew damn well I could be asked to kill. But I consciously made the decision that I would be willing to sacrifice my soul in order to preserve the lives and freedoms of my fellow citizens. (It's not the fault of the soldier, sailor, airman or marine if his committment is badly used.)

If you don't find that motivation respectable, then you can eat my shorts.

[atreides1]

12. Well

First off I was in the US Army for 13 years, and in the oath I took there was nothing about "agreeing to kill" when I enlisted. The closest that even comes to that thought is when we swear to defend the US Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Defending does not mean that killing is a necessity, it means that it could happen.

Military personnel can question an order that they think is illegal, but today it's not something that the troops are taught. They are told that they must follow every order that they receive without question, and as can be seen from Abu Ghraib they do.

Is it an honorable profession, maybe, maybe not. Honor means that you do not abuse, torture, or mistreat prisoners. Honor means that you do not take women and children as hostages to force an enemy general to surrender. Honor means you do not participate in the cover-up of possible war crimes.

But you must not paint a small portion of the military with a broad brush, for you see not all take part in torture, not all have taken hostages to force a surrender, and not all have participated in covering up war crimes. Those that are guilty are not honorable, they are an evil taint on the reputation of the military, but they are looked upon as "good soldiers". While those that refuse to be inhumane
are considered weak.

Those that have abided by the Geneva Conventions and the Rules of War, they are honorable, those that haven't do not even know the meaning of the word.

To answer your question, is it an honorable profession? As in any profession it is the actions of those who are part of it that decide whether it is an honorable profession. So you must look at the whole picture not just a the few who are evil, and base your own decision on what you believe is honorable.

[Ottmar]

13. Yes and No...

I think the problem is that those who come (more or less voluntary) to the military are young people with few experience but many and strong ideals. So they are easy to manipulate and to nurture.

I've done my military service in 1995 in the German army. It wasn't bad so I decided to apply for a career as officer. They asked me if I had a problem if I was sent abroad and I said no. Foreboding that I was thinking of peace-keeping missions in former Yugoslawia, they told me that being sent abroad doesn't implicitly mean Europe. I had no association what they could mean -- which conflict outside Europe could it make needful to send German combat troops? The German constitution allows combat missions only in case of defence. And why should I have problems with humanitarian missions anywhere in the world? So I said no again.

Finally I decided not to stay in the army as I wouldn't have had the possibilty to study computer science there -- my graduation diploma wasn't good enough for them and I already had a university place for computer science at a civil university.

I had a bad feeling when the German air force took part in the bombings of Serbia. Why it was legal is a controversial question and partly has to do with obligations to the NATO and a very flexible interpretation of German laws.

I remembered my application when German troops were sent to Afghanistan to "defend Germany at the Hindukush" (Peter Struck, Germany's minister of defence). And I thought: "How could they know seven years ago?" One or two years ago, I discovered an article of Germany's former minister of defence Volker Ruehe from 1990. He was writing about the reorganisation of the German Navy. It was very interesting and again I thought: "How could he know more than ten years ago?"

In september 2003, the news reported that hundreds of tourists escaped a fire in a hotel in Mombasa thanks to German military police that were on patrol there. And I thought: "Very interesting. So there are German troops in Kenya." If there wouldn't have been that fire, I wouldn't have found out that.

In my opinion, the military itself is a respectable profession. But the political leadership isn't always respectable. So I'm glad that the military didn't like my graduation diploma to much. Bush and his accomplices are trying to transform the NATO from a defence alliance to a attacking alliance. So I wouldn't recommend anybody to join the army.

[rasputin1952]

14. Yes...

Especially in this country.

The fact that many have, and do now, accept the responsibility of putting their lives on the line to protect others is noble.

Personal sacrifice is always honorable. These men and women give up some of the best years of their lives, as well as, their time, their energy, often their health limbs, or lives, in service to others.

Some of the problems arise with a few, we used to call it the "5-10% rule". 5-10% of all troops will be exemplary; 5-10% of all troops will be a problem; everyone else is the norm. Unfortunately the bottom 5-10%, if not weeded out, will cause 85% of all problems, and get the most attention.

One of the great problems w/the military, is the lack of good leadership. Many of the senior leaders haven't kept up with trends and new policies. Many have never seen combat. Many have their careers ahead of the troops. Unfortunately, people are sent into bad situations by poor leaders. Of course, this all comes down from the top. If the president sends people into harms way, as he did in Iraq, without the proper equipment or plans; the play-out will be be bad. This is precisely what is happening now. Those that are really involved in the fighting, know this was a mistake. They are not getting the support they deserve from this administration; they are getting wind blown in their faces. The usual war rhetoric, but no substance on the field of battle.

As a vet, I know what these men and women are going through. We here, support them, their government does not. We support them to the point we want them home and safe. We support them to the point where we cringe when we hear of casualties, but the administration is willing to cut VA benefits for those they have sent in harms way. This is truly a sad state of affairs.

Yes, military service is honorable; it is how that military is used by those in charge, that creates the air if dishonor.

[beanball]

15. Military service

Once upon a time in America,there was pride in serving our country.I speak from experience.I served under seven presidents,Truman,Ike,while in the Navy,JFK,Nixon, while in the Air Force,Ford,Carter, while in the Army and Reagan while I was civil service.All seven of the former presidents served in the military at one time,but that crook that stole the oval office is a disgrace and he has made the military his own private war machine,SHAME,SHAME ON YOU SHRUB.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

17. 25 years Active duty here, retired... I spent many hours on watch

thinking about this very thing.

The answer I came up with was, yes.

Unfortunately, there are times when killing must be done. It does not matter who actually does it, our society condons it. Even now with what I consider an illegal war, as long as the power structure is behind it, our society condons it, so we are as guilty as those who pull the trigger; like it or not.

That said, the peacetime military does do a lot of great good in a variety of ways. Don't forget the Coast Guard is military, so is the Public Health Service and the NOAA Officer Corps. The Navy and Marine Corps project power and diplomatic missions all over the world, and perform many, many unpublicised acts of humanitarian assistance. The Army, by maintaining bases and supply centers all around has a ready reserve of people and stuff for any crisis, natural disaster, or epidemic. The Air Force can move these people and things all over the world in a matter of hours now.

Of course there are dark sides to the military. I am the first to admit that, and have seen some of them with my own eyes. But there are dark sides to practically any profession.

The true military professionals are not mindless robots, that is much more fiction than reality. I have, over the years, run into Marine Corps Officers who were practically communists as well as the shit heels who were into it for the wrong reasons.

The military is, like it or not, the most accurate reflection of the society from which it comes.