So, I had to go to strippers tonight - honestly men disgust me

[HEyHEY]

All these fucking losers cheering and hooting as some poor girl takes her clothes off...felt so wrong. I hate those places..... but it was a stag so I had no choice. Shoudl these places be illegal?

Also, Canadians...is it illegal for one stripper to go down on another..cause that's what I saw.

[wyldwolf]

1. women act even more crude at male stripper events but...

..I'm not complaining!

And, no, they should not be illegal.

[HootieMcBoob]

18. I was gonna say the same thing

You ain't seen nothing until you've seen a bunch of women at a male strip show. If you think guys are bad...oy.....you got a lot of catching up to do :)

[0007]

27. I'll second that one!

The women indeed get after it - Worse than any strip joint in the rankest of Tijuana Mexico joints.

[ronnykmarshall]

62. Been there, done that.

I was a male stripper in my early 20's and women are too much!

One the worst times was when I was booked for a party and walked in and almost EVERY girl there I went to High School with!!

I did have fun whoever. Made for quite the talk at our 10 year reunion. (hell, I had a better body at the reunion .... could'a made some $$$)

:evilgrin:

[Rabid]

2. "had no choice"

Yeah, its terrible the way they held a gun to your head. Way to stand up for what you believe in.

Did you watch the "poor girl" take her clothes off? Did you gaze at her breasts? Watch one "poor girl" go down on another?

How long did you bear the pain before running for the door?

Bah.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bowens43]

9. You want to mandate by law that everyone

has the same principles as you?

[HEyHEY]

11. No - get smart man

It's fucking GD. I brought up a question for discussion.

[jukes]

43. HEyHey

i'm appalled @ the reception your post is receiving. apparently you & i have differing views on this subject, but i believe my response to our orig was courteous & respectful.

it's a fine line, someXs, in GD or the lounge when a reply is a tease or disrespectful; some in this thread are downright pissy.


let's clean it up, folks. if you're foolin' about, make a note of it or tack on a smiley. we can't see your facial expression & language is easily misunderstood.

if you don't like the slant of a post, use some logic in refuting it, but don't get childish & smart-ass.

i like & respect HeyHey; someXs we agree, often we don't, but i wdnt piss him off or try to hurt his feelings for any reason.


:grouphug:

[HEyHEY]

61. ...

:-)

[Moderator]

63. I'm locking this thread

Moderators have been instructed to lock down "sex war" threads

[djg21]

34. The strippers took advantage of you.

I'm sure they raked in a sizeable amount from the dopes in the audience. I wouldn't be so sure it was the strippers who were exploited.

If you don't like those places, don't go.

[newyawker99]

35. Hi Rabid!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. If the women involved

were not forced to do this, but were paid and were proud of their bodies and what they could do, it is not exploitation. If you don't approve of their actions, you can always bow out, or turn your back, which is what you did.

[HEyHEY]

6. true and I always do

For me it's not so much THEIR actions..it's the creeps I'm sitting with

[Feanorcurufinwe]

58. " the creeps I'm sitting with "

Whose choice was that?

[RobinA]

42. Proud of Their Bodies?

Oh man, get a clue.

[bowens43]

5. Poor girls?

Do you have any idea how much they make? No one is forcing them to strip.

No those places should not be illegal.

[HEyHEY]

8. hey maybe you're right - maybe it's mee

I just always see these women as victims of circumstance...perhaps I'm wrong

[Misunderestimator]

21. You're not wrong.... many of them are victims of circumstances...

and with the joblessness what it is now, I'm sure even more are resorting to this "profession" to make ends meet. I for one, as a woman, appreciate your concern and respect. :toast:

[Gman]

32. Back in the late '80's, I talked to a dancer in a strip joint...

as she sat on my lap, and she told me she was a laid off geologist from an oil company in Houston. (This was during the oil bust.) Her claim was valid as she knew way too much about the oil industry than the average out-to-get-into-your-wallet dancer. She also told me she was making a lot more money dancing than she did as a geologist. THe girl was gorgeous and wasn't suffering one bit. In fact, she was having fun.

Note that she also did a good job getting into my wallet, but we both had a good time!

OTOH, I know for a fact that there are many young women that are dancing out of desparation and/or low self esteem.

[Misunderestimator]

33. That's one example... I said many of them... not all.

Glad you enjoyed your lap dance from a geologist. Frankly, I have a feeling she would rather have been working as a geologist.

[skooooo]

7. Doesn't this belong more in Lounge????

...you know where it's heading.

[59millionmorons]

Meanwhile

These women are laughing all the way to the bank. Don't feel sorry for the women feel sorry for the men who waist there money thinking they may have a chance with one of these ladies. Stop with the poor women nonsense, these girls want to be there. This is not Iraq. There are plenty of reports on how these women manipulate these guys for all there money.

[Misunderestimator]

22. Laughing all the way to the bank?

You're kidding right? You think these women are making piles of money? And feel sorry for the MEN who give them money? Yow.

[RoeBear]

10. Should strip clubs be legal?

Sounds like a very Republican question.

They seem to like to decide for us what is moral and what isn't

[HEyHEY]

13. nothing to do with morality - where I'm sitting also

as I said it is just a question...did I say my view?

[Mari333]

12. The women involved work for a living

its how they feed their kids, etc. Male strippers do the same thing. Its a job. They know many of the men in the audience are morons, I have spoken with them about it, they know.
They just get it over with and go home. In this economy, theres not much that pays that much. Such is the world of women when they dont have many opportunities for decent paying jobs.
Many strippers I have spoken with have been abused as children. They deserve a Union with full benefits.
If thats what they have to do to feed their families, thats what they have to do.

[HEyHEY]

14. good post

best so far..thanks for not looking for a fight

[ikojo]

23. There are a fair number of strippers who do that to pay for college

I met a stripper at a Grateful Dead show in the early 90s. She lived in a wealthy area of St Louis and was stripping to afford her apartment and pay for college.

It pays well and as long as it is truly the woman's choice I see nothing wrong with it. I don't think I could do it (not that I'd be asked that's for sure...I'd be asked to do reverse stripping and ADD more clothes).

A lesbian friend of mine frequents strip clubs and has gotten to know some of the strippers. She has found a great many of them are lesbian or bi sexual. Most are purely in it for the money. Where else can a woman with no degree make that kind of money?

Regarding the need for a strippers union, I think one exists in San Francisco. It's the first of its kind. There should be more.

[ClintonTyree]

15. Everyone..............

has a choice. The girls made a choice when they decided to do this for a living. You could have politely declined and waited outside or somewhere else. Apart from that, if you talked to any of these women they'd probably tell you it's just a job for them. They make fantastic money off of men's lust and nobody is holding a gun to their heads to do this. These "poor girls" in all likelihood wouldn't have it any other way. Not everyone shares our interpretaion of morality. There's no other way to make the kind of money they do in Canada or the U.S.
Should it be illegal? This has happened in one form or another since the beginning of time. I'm not saying it's right, but trying to stop it would be akin to stopping drug use by "just saying NO". It ain't gonna happen.

[HEyHEY]

16. good post again

not liek some of the other reactionarys here...I'm drunk so whatever

[sadiesworld]

17. I'm not sure why your thread has attracted all this venom...

Obviously, these women are free to do as they wish, just as the men are free to watch them. However, I doubt that most of these women ENJOY the experience.

I remember when the left embraced feminism. Weren't we supposed to aspire to be more (than playthings for the amusement of men)?

:shrug:

[kayell]

19. Best comment yet

[RedSock]

20. latest New Yorker

The current New Yorker (might go off newsstands tomorrow) has a good story about a stripper-owned club in San Francisco and how they are making it work (or not).

Not online, but worth reading.

[Boomer]

24. Don't shatter the illusion

"However, I doubt that most of these women ENJOY the experience."

That's precisely what draws the venom -- the threat to men's illusion that the women gyrating for their benefit are enjoying themselves, too. That makes the whole experience less sleazy, less exploitative. Like the belief that prostitutes really like their job because they really like sex, and the pay is just an added bonus.

It's why I find the whole idea of strippers and audience -- regardless of gender and sexual orientation -- to be so distasteful. The experience is founded on illusions and self-delusions of sexuality, a carefully constructed theatre in which the audience tries to convince themselves that the play is reality rather than fiction. The strippers know there is no mutual interest, just a business transaction. What excuse does the audience have?

[ClintonTyree]

25. It sounds like you're describing..............

Disney World. Talk about a land of illusion.......... Face it, our entire world is founded on illusion. The illusion that we have a Democracy in our country, the illusion that money has real worth, the illusion that there are equal rights for everyone in our country.......you get the picture.
As for these women enjoying their jobs, I went to work for 29 years at a job that I loathed. There were little things like bills to pay and a daughter to get through college, things like that. We all do what we have to.

[Cats Against Frist]

37. I agree

and the real damage comes not from what's done to the women -- because I do believe it is largely THEIR choice -- but what's projected onto normal women, because these oblivious sides of beef decide to make money by sticking their bush in some guys face that is either a. also oblivious to women's feelings, b. has a wife somewhere, at home, with kids, who has to compete with this or c. someone seriously too desperate to get near non-paid flesh.

They have the right to do it, and I have the right to hammer them, and their clientele, with psychologically cruel insults.

No, it should not be made illegal. It should be trashed for what it is, however.

***edited for spelling

[Misunderestimator]

38. Good post.

:thumbsup:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

50. Not anymore

[mongo]

53. So is it feminist

To not support a woman's choice to work as a stripper?

Stripping is not for everyone. Lots of girls try it and last a day, a week, or a month.

But girls who have been stripping for a while do it because it is the best job they can get. And there are plenty of girls who enjoy it.

It is really empowering for them. They have total control over the situation.

[sendero]

26. I used to think like this..

... conditioned by all the propaganda about women, but I started watching and understanding reality rather than buying the utopian wankfest of certain authors.

My take is simple. *Most* of these women choose this line of work because it is easy money compared to anything else they can do.

They milk the men who come in for every dollar they can. If anyone is being exploited, it is the dumbass guys who think this is anything other than a business. But really, I think it is about as close to a free market (i.e. each side gets what they want in a fair trade) as any business.

There are probably some abusive situations, just like there are in every aspect of life. What can be done?

It's been a while since I've visited such a place, but I can tell you it has been very rare than I saw a woman who seemed uncomfortable with doing what she was doing. To the contrary, most of them seem to relish the power they have over men. I say, more power to them :)

[mongo]

52. Well put

I have known a lot of strippers in my time and now I deal with them on a day to day basis at the store. (I special order CFM shoes for them for cheap).

Some of the girls are spoiled brats who think that men should worship them and provide all their desires. Most of them are just normal young women.

Now I get to see them in blue jeans with an infant or toddler in tow. Most of these girls come from a lower to lower-middle class background, and are stripping because they can make more money than other jobs. They can set their own schedule. IT IS TAX FREE MONEY! I know strippers here that are living in public housing.

These girls are so less exploited in their work than if they worked at the local Wal-mart.

And yeah, some of them have drug problems, but it is more related to their social caste than the fact they strip.

[drdigi420]

28. Poor Girl?

Geez, I bet she makes more $ than me.

Wish I could get paid for stripping.

I may get a few offers of cash to put my clothes back on.

[ronabop]

29. Men digust you...

Because women are doing something of their own free will?

-Bop

[against all enemies]

30. Were you abducted?

[NMDemDist2]

31. as an ex stripper (when I was young and fit) I can tell you one thing

the money is great and if anything, it is demeaning to men. I can't describe the feeling of complete control I had

we ladies would just laugh and laugh at the men in the audience and make "they are so lame" jokes all the time. If there was ever a creep we didn't like, who was rude or condescending, we'd have him bounced pronto

that being said, there is a wide range of "clubs" some are excellent working environments, some are just awful. The management makes a huge difference in the atmosphere. But the best clubs treat the dancers with great respect and support

The downside was there was a lot of drug abuse in those places and it's true a large minority of the women were gay or bi. But most of the girls were putting themselves through college or had children to support and were fairly healthy overall

not sure why you were so uncomfortable in the surroundings, different strokes for different folks IMO and the women had complete control of the situation.

[Tom_Foolery]

39. I agree completely....

I've been an overnight jock for most of my radio career; and I always received phone calls from strippers as they drove home after getting off work. I've had long conversations with them, so I can confirm what you say.

I've found that most of these women are thoughtful, intelligent people. Of course, they have their problems like all of us do. Also, I think that they enjoy the power that they have while stripping that they might not have in private life.

[TreasonousBastard]

44. I'm glad you said that...

since there seems to be some misunderstanding of the situation by many who insist on talking about it.

I haven't spent a lot of time in those clubs, but I always felt kind of stupid on the rare occasion I agreed to be dragged along with a few guys. So, just what is it I'm getting out of looking at yet another almost naked woman and stuffing my hard-earned dollar bills in her g-string? While buying some seriously overpriced and watered booze?

You're right about the extreme variation in the clubs. I remember one that was really a brothel, with the girls making the serious money upstairs. Another club had a curious "policy" about turning tricks on the side. And there is some real exploitation with immigrants and white slavery victims. It's not so much the sex angle, but yet another example of the ongoing hammering of labor and the powerless.

But, most of the time, it seems like it's just another job. You gotta make the rent somehow, and how many of us are stuck in a job we're not thrilled with dealing with schmucks just to pay the bills? In the better clubs, probably most of them, the girls are pampered and protected, and it is the customers who are being "exploited."

[TreasonousBastard]

45. I'm glad you said that...

since there seems to be some misunderstanding of the situation by many who insist on talking about it.

I haven't spent a lot of time in those clubs, but I always felt kind of stupid on the rare occasion I agreed to be dragged along with a few guys. So, just what is it I'm getting out of looking at yet another almost naked woman and stuffing my hard-earned dollar bills in her g-string? While buying some seriously overpriced and watered booze?

You're right about the extreme variation in the clubs. I remember one that was really a brothel, with the girls making the serious money upstairs. Another club had a curious "policy" about turning tricks on the side. And there is some real exploitation with immigrants and white slavery victims. It's not so much the sex angle, but yet another example of the ongoing hammering of labor and the powerless.

But, most of the time, it seems like it's just another job. You gotta make the rent somehow, and how many of us are stuck in a job we're not thrilled with dealing with schmucks just to pay the bills? In the better clubs, probably most of them, the girls are pampered and protected, and it is the customers who are being "exploited."

[jukes]

36. HEyHEY

i don't feel that government has any business legislating morality. mores change over time, by societal evolution.

we have way too many people in prison now for a "moral" crime; they smoke they're intoxicants instead of drinking them.

no-one is forced to enter those places, & they clearly advertise what they're about. if the women or men that perform in those establishments are "exploited", it's frequently true that they are exploiting their own physical attractiveness for profit also; free enterprize, and someX the only way they can make a decent living.

i SERIOUSLY detest "white slavery" (kryst, what an ugly, sexist & racist phrase) child-exploitation, or coersive exploitation of any type, but feel that adults choosing to expose themselves for profit is merely a commercial Xaction, & no-one's biz but the performers/patrons.

i recommend thornton/arquette's film "Badge" for an underground take on this subject.

[Nikia]

40. Many clubs approach prostitution

Before I went to a strip club, I honestly thought that it was just women dancing, taking off their clothes, and dancing naked for a while. I didn't think that this would be degrading for those women who were comfortable with their bodies.
Then I visited a few strip clubs, my sister stripped for a couple weeks, and listened to a male friend tell me about his strip club phase when he was a heavy drinker. What is degrading is not dancing naked. It is degrading to have to approach and do pseudo sex acts for any paying customer. I was shocked as strippers rubbed their breasts in the faces of customers paying them $1. I was shocked to see full contact, on the part of the naked stripper, lap dances. I was shocked as to how close that these dancers put their vaginas to customers faces. My sister said that is why she didn't want to be a stripper after seeing how it was. My friend and sister agreed that most of the women doing it for a long time, more than a year or so, were really messed up.
I suppose that going to a strip club isn't as bad as visiting a prostitute. This sort of entertainment will probably be around in some form. There are worse alternatives. I am not sure if it should be regulated more. I think that regualtions are a state matter in the U.S. I don't know about Canada.

[Maestro]

49. I had a buddy who was a DJ at joint like this

and he said the same thing. Many girls go right into prostitution. Very sad indeed. Also meany develop raging drug problems, at least the ones from the place where he DJ'd.

[camero]

41. Did you throw them a toonie?

They have to make a living too.

[jdonaldball]

46. I respect strippers more than I respect most CEOs

Strippers have limits (well, many of them) and some code of honor.
Most strippers obey the law. Many CEOs and their Congressional whores don't.
Strippers give you something for your money. Ken Lay never gave anything of value for any of his income.
Giving a dollar to a stripper helps a working girl and maybe her family. Giving a dollar to General Electric, funds wars.
I've seldom been to strip clubs, but whenever I've been, I just hand a dollar to the lady's hand, in her hand. Not her chest, but her hand. This is the one custom I think we should change - yes, keep strip clubs open and legal - but change the custom. No need to stuff a dollar in a good dancer's breasts. Just HAND the dollar to her, like,
"Hey, thanks for dancing! You're beautiful! Dance more please!"
(And I wonder about any man who needs to pay a dollar to touch a woman's breasts. But paying a dollar, hand to hand, for a good erotic dance? YES! But then, just HAND it to her!)
Just HAND the dollar to a good dancer, and then let the dancing go on and on.... :-) Kind of like the belly dancers of the Middle East -wouldn't it be SO COOL if Americans could learn this kind of custom?
Honoring women, with dignity, for their erotic beauty? I think erotic beauty should not be covered up (as the Repukes want) but ALSO, beyond that, it should be honored and respected! :-)
But anyway, I'd rather give a dollar to a good dancer than to PepsiCo or Disney.
One more note on that: The Irish explorer, Sir Richard Burton, came home from Egypt once (around 1860) and some stuffy Brits asked him why he didn't go to an important meeting with important officials in London and all that. And he told them:
"I'd rather be in Egypt, with the whores, than be with you!"
:-)
It's your choice, whether or not to visit a strip joint. But those ladies have a hundred times more dignity than the real whores in our country.
A salute here to all erotic beauties (men and women) of all ages.
On that note, there is a line in one of Walt Whitman's poems, about Old Women - he said something like, "the young girls are beautiful, but the old are more beautiful than the young..."
:-)....
.........Love of Beauty is the first principle of Truth, and then we can argue about how to love with dignity and honor.......but Beauty comes first, always......IMHO......

[Nikia]

47. I don't see anything wrong with erotic dance

I don't think that is degrading to dancers who are comfortable with their bodies. I do think that nakedness is beautiful and it is amzing how most of those dancers can move.
Many strip clubs are degrading though because they do approach prostitution in the ways I stated in my post above. As my sister said, if it had just been dancing, she wouldn't have had a problem with doing that. I think that laws vary by state and maybe even locality on what strippers can do, but it also seems to vary by club. If strippers rub their breasts in customers faces, then all the strippers at the club do.

[Maestro]

48. I think those idiot men are fools

or is what I said repetitive? Anywho, I don't get into porn or strip joints because first of all it does nothing for me and second, as some have stated I don't want to be played for a fool. I mean think about it, if you are so starved for sexual attention that you have to download porn or watch some woman strip, have you really released any sexual tension accept for what you had can do for you? I personally love the relationship I have with my wife for all that sort of stuff and while she no longer has the body she once had, neither do I but we still have fun when we can get the kids put to sleep early.

A buddy of mine used to DJ at a local strip joint in Dallas. He said those women hated the men that came in the place and many of the women had many problems to boot and few had their lives lead them to better places. What really gets my goat is now on certain radion stations in the Dallas area, some of these clubs are advertising for women to come strip for them for "good money." Well it is their choice and I am not taking it away from them but I would like this industry more regulated and located in certain areas of a large city much like a Red Light district. Dallas has several areas like this and when these places move in, the area dies, completely. For those Dallasites who are here just look at certain areas of Northwest Highway or the former "Restaurant Row."

[lazarus]

51. going to a strip club is like

going to a strip club is like going to a restaurant where they let you smell the food, then take it away.

Waste of time. But it's great money for the women. Virtually every stripper I've known had a blast taking advantage of these dumb men and their hormones. It's a game, seeing how much money they can get from the idiots without giving anything in return.

[Angelus]

54. I love strip bars.

Lots of hot chicks

[KFC]

55. I think stripping should be manditory

We need a stripping draft. Every man and woman of the age 20 should be forced to strip for two years. No exceptions.

[DS1]

56. I find strip clubs darkly amusing. On the extremely rare occasion

I find myself lurking in the shadows watching losers piss their money away.

[NightTrain]

57. Out of curiosity, I went to one of those place once. And never again!

I left the place feeling as if I needed a shower. The bar itself was seedy as hell, the music was annoying as all get out, and the "girls" were, to put it as gently as I can, somewhat past their prime.

The low point of my night came when one of the "dancers" grabbed my hand and rubbed it against her partially exposed nether region. Her pubic hair felt like it came from a goddamned wire brush! When she moved on to the next fellow, I made a beeline for the men's room and washed my hands. Then I got the hell out of that sleaze palace and vowed NEVER to return to one of those places!

That was 13 years ago. I've yet to see another stripper in action.

[unfrigginreal]

59. Eeeewwww!

Funny story though. Reminds me of the time I was taken to a joint as part of a "business" dinner. Since I was a bachelor(and not out at the time) the group thought it would be funny as hell to get one of the "girls" to give me a lap dance. Well, I'll tell you one thing, if it was truly possible to "turn gay" that experience would have done it for me. I swear to Christ that the "girl" couldn't have been more skanky if she had just been through the million man gang-bang. No shit, she even had a tattoo of an Eagle carrying a dead pig. Scared the bejeesus out of me and one of the most traumatic experiences I've ever had, but I guess it would have been a real turn-on had I been "normal." :)

[HEyHEY]

60. That's what I mean when I say "Men disgust me"

All these fucking slobs cheering and hollering waving money saying "Show me your titties!" IN some dark scungy shithole...