Do you believe in past lives?

[Gothic Sponge]

I don't know what to believe, but sometimes i think i must have been a prick in a past life, and now i'm doing "karma time." Maybe i was Hitler!

:scared:

[Az]

1. Its a math problem

As we look back through history we can see that there has been a steady increase in the population of the planet. So if there were a fixed number of spirits wandering around there would be a math problem.

The likely truth is that the mind is not some detached thing seperate from the body. Rather it is specifically the the body and its brain that give rise to the mind. Think of it this way. Would your identity survive a brain transplant?

[m-jean03]

8. What if when we die, our souls become part of a bank of infinite energy

that is recycled back to Earth in the form of anything and all that lives? :-)

[Az]

16. It's not just energy

Its organisation of energy. Our minds arise from the structure of the brain and the electrical/neural impulses coursing throgh them. Remove the structure and any semblance of a mind is gone. You need brains to record memories. While energy cannot be destroyed it certainly can be discombobulated (always wanted to work that into a discussion). Death is a real drain. All coherance leaves the system. Chaos and entropy take over. Without the stucture and order the mind is gone.

[m-jean03]

20. I don't mean the mind.

The mind only gives us ego and all kinds of problems. It's a lot of fun to use, but it is mortal and best left behind. I don't believe in survival of the individual, the consciousness after death. I'm a Buddhist. I believe we are all possessed by the same cosmic energy and when we die, it goes back to the infinite, which creates life and non-life, infinitely.

So, while I don't believe in transmigration of the soul, I believe that I am part of something infinite that will continue on after I die.

[Az]

22. Yes and no

Yes we are all part of a continuous ongoing process. There is no loss of matter or energy (actually there is but not enough to warrant discussion in this matter). But it is not the presense of matter or energy alone that defines us. I suspect that Taoism is perhaps a better vehicle to explain this than buddhism.

The word Tao means way or path. It implies a continuing process. And that is exactly what life is. A process. It is not just the matter and energy. It is the matter and energy dancing together. When the dance stops so to does the life. Life is the dance.

Now as to the mind it is the utmost expression of this dance. All the matter and energy are still present in life. But in death the individual components and steps are stopped. Other dances go on and may make use of these components but there is nothing left of the previous dance in the new one.

The memories others have of your mind constitute the surviving threads of your life. What you taught them. What they learned through you. These things constitute your mind surviving in some extent. You teach others to dance and through that your dance lives on.

[m-jean03]

32. I agree with you completely.

Thanks, that was well put.

I considered saying Taoism. I should say Taoist/Buddhist. For every birth there is a death. Without death, there could be no birth.

What do you think about this statement on rebirth by causal connection (in Buddhism)? :

<snip>
Philosophically I am certain on Buddhist premises that they are right in saying the rebirth has to be a different person from the one that died. Consider the following: Imagine that I die and am reborn (as I might be) as a cockroach in South America. For our present purposes let us understand by 'person' (as does the Buddhist) any conscious subject of experience. Thus the cockroach is a 'person' in this context. Now, it is clear that the cockroach in South America is not the same person as me, Williams, professor in England. But I can also make absolutely no sense of any claim that the cockroach is also not a different person from Williams. Clearly the cockroach is indeed a different person. What follows from this is that the person Williams is has actually ceased to exist. There is now a cockroach called Pablo. In terms of what it is to be me, the ongoing lived life that it is to be me, it has come to an end. A cockroach is now having an ongoing lived life that is indeed a cockroach life, the life of Pablo the cockroach. It seems to me that it is sheer confusion to think that somehow Williams continues in, or within, or underlying, Pablo. It makes no sense for me to look forward to my life as Pablo. It also makes no sense for me to carry out actions aimed at benefiting my future life as Pablo. If this story is not one of Williams ceasing to exist, I do not know what would be.

I say all this notwithstanding the fact that the Buddhist position is said to be that the rebirth is not different from the one who died either. By 'not different' here, what is meant is that the rebirth is not different in the sense that it is not a different causal continuum. It is actually causally dependent upon the one that died, and thus both the dead being and the rebirth form one causal continuum. Pablo is the reincarnation of Williams in the sense that there is a particular type of causal connection between Williams and Pablo. But it seems to me that in terms of personal survival being causally dependent upon the one that died is irrelevant. The Buddhist claim of 'not different' rests on an idiosyncratic sense of 'difference', i.e. as 'not causally related'. But for my purposes what counts is whether or not Pablo is a different person from Williams. It seems clear that he is, and various Buddhist philosophers admit this fact.
<snip>
http://www.angelfire.com/realm/bodhisattva/rebirth.html

[Az]

34. Continuity

Life is contiguous. It has flowed from the very first moment it arose and every single occurrence since can be traced to the first. Identity is not life. It arises from instances of life. There is no continuity between instances of identity.

Identity is a special case of life. A subset if you will. It is entirely contained within the set of life. Life is not a subset of identity. Thus where a life ends the continuity of the identity associated with that instance is severed.

[m-jean03]

38. I think that is basically what's being said here

And what I've been saying, too.

As a Buddhist, in life one realizes his or her oneness with all that lives. By silencing the mind daily through meditation we can experience a kind of death-before-death.

It is in this sense of oneness with all creation that one finds compassion for other beings as well as the realization that the eventual death of the self is both inevitable and the ultimate meditation experience :D -- complete annihilation of the self and re-entrance into the eternal circle of life.

[Az]

41. I have a different theory re oneness

First some Buddhist humor. Why do you desire nirvana?


Now to the point. When we are born our minds are still forming. The mind is actually the result of both a brain and its absorbing enough experience to begin to recognise self against the chaos of the world around it. Essentially when we are born we are the universe.

The mind has not learned to differentiate a table from self as yet. Everything just is. And we are everything. Over time we learn to distinguish the difference between tables and arms. But this is all handled by a specific part of the brain.

This part of the brain can be shorted out. This can occurr through a number of ways. Meditation, drugs, physical exertion. Each of these can cause a dissassociative state to overtake the brain. Thoughts and ideas continue to flow from the brain but it can no longer discern the origin of these thoughts as coming from self.

Since we spend most of our lives with a singular view of the world the exposure to an illusory external view can be quite exhilirating. Like being handed a new tool entirely new ways of looking at problems appear before you'r mind. When the only tool you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail. Hand the mind a new way of looking at things and it quickly begins exploring how to use it.

Thus Buddhist's have tapped into this anomaly of the brain. Whether their description of it is factualy true or not is irrelevant to whether it offers any value. It has merrit to those that tap into it. This is all it needs to warrant their advocacy of it.

[m-jean03]

49. That's a funny joke, Az! Thanks,

I'll share that.

OK, my feeling. The mind is noisy as all crap. If you can learn to silence all the pointless, egotistical thoughts that ultimately lead nowhere, confuse you and make you anxious and unhappy, then that is when you REALLY have control. That's not an illusory state, that's just happiness as the result of discipline.

We can still distinguish tables from arms. But we start to realize, in this state of (relatively) selfless happiness, that essentially all life is made of the same stuff, that those thoughts and beliefs and whatever else kept us from opening ourselves to other people are actually empty and inessential. This isn't to say ALL work of the mind is this way -- just the useless thoughts. Through meditation we can develop the gift of clear thinking to determine what is true and pure, and what isn't.

Having rid ourselves of the inessential, we find ourselves "at the root of practical necessity." What we realize viscerally in this state of mental simplicity and emotional fullness is that all people around the world are branches of the same tree, and we have no logical reason to feel separate from them. It is through this kind of personal understanding that we develop the gift of empathy, and start to feel intensely the suffering of people the world over.

Of course, many people already have empathy to a certain degree (though many also do not). But the point of Buddhism is to MAGNIFY the gift of compassion by developing this sense of oneness -- to put it in the forefront of one's vision, in order to advance peace and end suffering in the world.

[gpandas]

44. guess i'm a buddhist...

your last sentence is true to the point of being unassailable.

[truthspeaker]

59. But energy is a physical concept, not a philosophical one

[m-jean03]

61. Yes, and your point is...?

Plenty of philosophies are based on physical phenomena. Like food for example. I have some strong philosophies about food and nutrition, and the energetic natures of foods.

[Cybergata]

36. That is why there are so many new souls today..

As a Buddhist, I am a true believer in past lives. All my experience in life and in a brush with death 30 years ago have lead to me to this belief. Have you never met a very young person who had the serenity of living many lives and having an old soul? Have you never met a person who instinctively you felt you know, yet you just met?


The answer to you population statement is there are so many people on this earth with new souls, young souls with a long journey ahead.


Of course, there can be other explanations. Maybe the souls for the growing population have come from other worlds where the population has be devastated by conflict or natural causes.


:hippie:

[SarahB]

37. I like what you had to say.

Good stuff. :thumbsup:
Welcome to DU! :D

[m-jean03]

40. I am relatively new to Buddhism

But the Buddhists I know, myself included, do not believe in the transmigration of the soul, nor the survival of the consciousness after death.

For example, this page gives a good explanation of my beliefs:

<snip>
What Reincarnation is Not

Reincarnation is not a simple physical birth of a person; for instance, John being reborn as a cat in the next life. In this case John possesses an immortal soul which transforms to the form of a cat after his death. This cycle is repeated over and over again. Or if he is lucky, he will be reborn as a human being. This notion of the transmigration of the soul definitely does not exist in Buddhism.
<snip>
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/reincarnation.htm

Are there different schools of Buddhism, one of which you belong to?

[Cybergata]

54. Free Form Buddhist ;-)

...and all this time, I've been following the 8 Fold Path hoping I would be reborn as a beloved house cat!. <hee hee> Honestly, I have a cat with a very old soul. I can't imagine that any life form is an inferior life form.


This is new to me. I rarely discuss my spiritual beliefs, except with my husband & my middle school students who ask. I only recently used the word Buddhist to define my beliefs, but Buddhism has always come closest to my beliefs...also shaped my beliefs since I first read about Buddhism when I was 15 (1968).


In my younger years, I read much about the many different religious in the world. I believe there are universal truths that are within all religions. I also believe that all religions have the same ideal, spiritual enlightenment. Yet these differing religions have been corrupted by human desire and greed. The philosophy of Buddhism has always seemed, to me, the most logical of the religions. Yet the bottom line of my belief is that all religions are all the same, just differing paths.


From my understanding there are two main schools, Mahayana Buddhism and Theravada Buddhism. I'm more inclined toward the Mahayan, Tibetian and Zen Schools of Buddhism. Although people have put labels on different forms of Buddhism, they really are the same at the core. Different schools and sects of Buddhism have formed to different cultures.


What is great about Buddhism is there is no place for arguments, disagreement, or war between different sects. Buddhism is a religion of tolerance. Tolerance of other Buddhists, and other religions.


I firmly believe that in the concept of Bodhisattvahood, which falls in the Mahayan school of Buddhism. I am a teacher, and I have met teachers who I believe are true Bodhisattvas. Heck, I have met 12 year old Bodhisattvas.


Although I know that humans are on a wheel of life, death & rebirth, I don't consider it the most important aspect of Buddhism. Zen appeals to me because zen is more iabout living in the here and now according to the principles of Buddhism, plus the belief of meditating to find enlargement in the here and now. I also believe, as does Zen, that I should look inward for for spiritual enlightenment rather than outside to a supreme being.


I know this doesn't answer your question, but I believe in the Noble 8 Fold Path and Four Noble Truths, which I think is at the core of all schools of Buddhism. If I were forced to put a label on it, I guess the American School of Zen. But I really don't feel comfortable with that label. Maybe I should go back to saying I'm a student of Buddhism in all its shapes and forms.


:hippie:

[m-jean03]

60. Welcome to DU, Cybergata!

Glad to have you here. :toast:

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I'll look forward to seeing you around. :)

[hyphenate]

2. Been there, done that

The Ouija board said I was Hitler in my past life. By regressions, I was a wide variety of people, from a slave in a Roman household, to a French mountain climber.

[Gothic Sponge]

3. You can't be Hitler! I was Hitler!

I must have been Hitler, because i never found Hogan's Heroes funny! ;)

[hyphenate]

17. I would imagine

that Hitler's reincarnation would be everything he was not: a woman, possibly a Jew (though not necessary, since he was a bastard son of a Jew himself), an intellectual, and someone with Nordic looks. How many blonde intellectual women are around, born after 1945? :)

[SarahB]

28. OK, I'm scared now.

:scared:

[AlienGirl]

58. Regressions are more accurate than Ouija boards

[stellanoir]

4. yes

I seriously doubt you were Hitler. However if you feel like you get clobbered often by tough environmental, financial, or emotional circumstances that have nothing to do with your volition or actions, then you probably are doing "karma time" but don't necessarily believe that it will not be alleviated over time.

It's not necessarily a terminal condition.

I do feel that in a general sense, people are either creating karma with no regard or awareness of the repercussions of their actions, or they are rectifying their karma and mindful of the laws of cause and effect over several lifetimes. When these two different orientations become entangled, things can get pretty ugly.

[southpaw]

5. I don't believe in Karmic Debt...

I feel that the growth and experience a soul acquires during a physical incarnation (life) are an end in themselves. You may have been 'bad' in a previous incarnation, but your soul experienced what it needed to experience at that phase of its growth.

I do believe that Karma works within the same incarnation, but I don't feel that it carries over from one incarnation to the next.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

[stellanoir]

6. I feel both "instant karma" and karmic debt are possible,

We all know of people without consciences who plow through life, wreaking havoc, and leaving all sorts of carnage in their wakes, who seem to suffer no accountability. I think guilt is the hook. if a person feels guilt they are more likely to experience and often compound the repercussions. If a person feels no remorse for their behavior whatsoever, the repercussions are perhaps delayed for a lifetime or several. It's just a theory.

Imagine what kind of karma * can look forward to? He clearly feels no guilt for anything.

As for the math problem, it's an awfully big universe and I don't feel that this is the only plane of existance where "life" is possible.

[gpandas]

7. what is "karma"? n/t

[Cybergata]

42. Karma....

Karma is something we make. In fact, the word Karma means "to create." It can be a cause and effect type of Karma, or it can be Karma we take with us a we are reborn into a new existence. Karma is the law of moral causation. There is no supreme being that causes our trials or paths in life. All of this is created by ourselves. That is Karma.


:hippie:

[gpandas]

43. as if we owed a universal...

debt for our existence?

[Cybergata]

55. Karmatic Debt

Our debt for not living right....for bad choices....

:hippie:

[Speck Tater]

9. Here's how it really works...

You can reincarnate forward, backward or sideways in time. Your next life might be in the 12th century and you previous life might have been in the 23rd century. Three lives from now you might be born in 1995, so you're alive in two places right now.

In fact, there is only one of us, because there is only one soul. There is perfect justice because not only did we all get to be Hitler, we all got to be each and every one of Hitler's victims as well.

So when you punch someone in the nose, just remember that when your tunr comes to be that person it will be YOU that gets punched in the nose.

Since there is only one soul, that soul is God, and we/I/you incarnate in this time-independant manner so we/I/you will have someone to play with, and someone to keep us company in an otherwise empty universe.

(ed sp)

[pagerbear]

12. I like this theory!

[TXlib]

62. Step AWAY from the bong!

:evilgrin:

[POed_Ex_Repub]

10. Heck, I'm not even sure I believe in THIS one. n/t

[johnnie]

11. Yeah, I believe it

Everyone is doing "Karmic time" in some way. It would take me forever to write my beliefs in this whole thing, but yeah I believe in it.
As for the post with the math problem, there might be other planes and places we could be. This is a very huge place.

[mrboba1]

13. yes.

I believe that people lived before I did.
:silly:

[gpandas]

39. lol n/t

[bikebloke]

14. Not in this life

In past lives, sure. I decided to give a rest. Come the next life, I'll be a believer again.

[pagerbear]

15. I have an acquaintance who is an "aura healer"

I had a reading with him, and he told me about my aura and some of my past lives. It seems my aura is just soaked with Christianity.

In one of my past lives, I was a physically handicapped child who was abandoned and raised by monks in a monastery, eventually becoming a monk. When I died, I was really pissed off that what happened didn't match the mythology of an afterlife I'd been taught.

In another life I was a big, bearish castrato in Rome--a highly paid singer in the church. He said I got a lot of fun out of the contrast between burly body and very high voice. I was a jolly fellow, it would seem.

I don't know if any of this is true. I think what matters is what I do with this life.

(pensive moment)

Dang.

[proud patriot]

18. Yes .

:hi:

[Endangered Specie]

19. So you get to sing..

Heil myself!
Heil to meeee...!

[yellowcanine]

21. Yes! I was Winston Churchill. And I can tell you that George W. Bush is

no me!

[BigMcLargehuge]

23. no

but I wish I did sometimes.

[everythingsxen]

24. Yes I believe in past lives

No I don't believe in karma though. At least not when it comes to reincarnation. If karma were in effect I would be in really bad shape this life.

I wasn't Hitler.

[AlienGirl]

57. Well, you did end up in Florida!

Seriously, though...

I believe in reincarnation, but as far as I can see karma does NOT work like a ledger system, with all your debts on one side and what's due to you on the other. The evidence just doesn't support it.

What I think does happen is that strong emotions between people can create a bond that causes them to re-encounter each other. It doesn't matter if the emotion was positive or negative, either. In another hundred years Bush and Rove will probably be roommates with the reincarnation of some Iraqi kid who was scared shitless of them.

Tucker

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

25. Read this book

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?isbn=0345409469

[Az]

26. If it were possible to compel people to read one book

That would be it for me. Thank you Professor Sagan.

[Xithras]

35. I didn't care for it

While I agreed with Sagan's basic premise, I found the book to be disorganized, poorly planned, and repetitive. His tone struck me with a preachy "do as I say because I'm smarter than you" attitude that I simply didn't care for, and his suggestions that scientists (and I am one) venture into the political arena because "we" are smarter than "you" was practically technocratic advocacy. What's worse, Sagan himself never acknowledges in the book that the scientific method and logic by themselves aren't any kind of panacea for the worlds ills, and that they can be twisted to suit the needs of the powerful just as mysticism and religion are today. The scientifically uneducated reader could easily finish this book with the impression that the world would be a much better place if we'd just abandon our religions and apply logic and scientific rigor to all of our decisions, a belief which completely ignores the compulsions and human desires responsible for corrupting religion and mysticism in the first place.

I respect Sagan immensely, but I've never understood the fawning worship this book has received over the years.

[Speck Tater]

56. Saga considered Dr. Ian Stevenson's work with

3000+ case of children who claimed to recall past lives and gave verifiable facts about those lives, to be suggestive enough to warrant serious consideration. (In "Dragons of Eden)

So before you drag Sagan out as proof of the non-existence of reincarnation, be aware that he admitted that the evidence collected by Dr. Stevenson at the Univ. of Virginia warranted further study.

If you want to read one book on the subject read "Old Souls" by Tom Shroder. After debunking several past-life regressionists, this author pointed his skeptical guns in the direction of Dr. Stevenson, and after looking over Stevenson's shoulder for a couple of years came away convinced that there was something too it.

The people who disbelieve in reincarnation all have one thing in common: They have never taken the time to examine the serious evidence carefully, but have relied on hearsay and pre-deigested verdicts from certain very vocal, but sadly misguided "skeptics".

[SarahB]

27. I don't know.

I'm not sure about the karma aspect. In some ways, I've been immensely blessed and yet have had to deal with some pretty painful, yucky stuff as well. It's the condition of being human I guess. I "try" to focus on the positive and do the best I can with whatever cards are dealt.

Then there's this other aspect of wondering if there were people I knew in a past life. On rare occasions in my life, I have been unexplainably drawn to people- like I already know them, when I don't really know them or it doesn't alwyas make sense logically. Hard to explain, especially when I tend to have a hard time letting myself get close to most people, but I often wonder if there's something more cosmic to it all. :shrug:

[Taverner]

29. I don't - as was mentioned earlier

It's a numbers thing. Now I'm not sure your consciousness dies, per se when you die.

When your body dies, your brains stays alive for quite a while before you go out. Many feel you go through a state of consciousness much like dreaming when you are asleep. That time can seem like years, decades, etc... Personally I think that is the "afterlife" - that time gets cycled into a state of infinity (or rather it seems like an infinite time.)

[DemExpat]

30. Not necessarily "believe", but feel it is a strong possibility.....

and have even had "flashbacks" of possible past lives while in therapy.

DemEx

[Angelus]

31. No. I don't believe in past lives.

I believe that when we die, we either go to Heaven or Hell. We don't reincarnate into other individuals. Each soul is unique.

[mr blur]

33. I used to, until about 300 years or so ago. (n/t)

[manic expression]

45. I always wanted to share this, so, here goes...

I’ll try to respectfully explain my beliefs. I do believe in re-incarnation and karma. The soul and the physical body (and the body’s many layers) are separate. After death, the soul transcends to a state of “afterlife”, depending upon the being’s actions and thoughts during all of its lives. It is then reborn into another being after a certain amount of time depending upon different circumstances. I think that people’s spiritual beings (souls) are pretty much asleep during this life cycle (kali yuga, when human nature is at its worst). Karma is a product of free will, and the decisions and thoughts we make directly effect our karma. A common misconception is that if someone is born poor or misfortunate, then they were evil in a past life. This is a horrible oversimplification. If one is born, say, poor, then it is really unknown to humans what their dharma (duty) is in life. They could be born in that situation because they have the will and the power to help everyone around them. Also, it is important to realize that material wealth has nothing to do with the wealth of their spiritual being (which is considered by far the most important thing in Hinduism). People are right to be suspicious in the saying that reincarnation is impossible, due to the fact that there are a rising number of people around. Think about the trees, animals and plants (even mountains are considered to be living entities with their own soul) which all had the same exact soul that humans posses; there are a lot less of these around now then there were before, so this may help to explain that problem. Also, the amount of time spent in the “afterlife” (or “between-life”) is not fixed. Souls being born into the present may have been in the afterlife for eons, or even from a time when Earth, or this universe, did not exist. There was never a time when anyone did not exist, nor there a time when anyone will not exist.
Thanks for reading all that…I hope it was easy to understand…. All of these are my personal beliefs, I would hate to offend anyone so if I did please tell me.

[DemExpat]

48. Thanks for sharing, and welcome to DU.

In therapy years ago I had "images" with feelings about not wanting to incarnate again - after perhaps several lifetimes of not so pleasant experiences and traumas. I felt that some force actually forced me to incarnate on earth once again....like I came back this time kicking and screaming! :D

But even though in these sessions I felt I was forced back to earth, I still feel that I chose my parents to learn certain lessons that only they could teach.....:shrug:

This life has also been quite a rough ride, and I know I won't reach 'enlightenment' or 'completion' this time around either, so I'll have to resign myself to having to come back again after my coming death. :scared: :-)

Just my personal experiences and possible "beliefs"....

:hi:

DemEx

[manic expression]

50. I know exactly how you feel

Sometimes it feels like life is just unfair and people are never understanding. Also, the thought that reaching "enlightenment" or "completion" (however a person defines this) is unattainable is very deppressing as well. I just try to remember that even if I never reach any of my goals, the joy of life should always be in the journey.

[DemExpat]

53. Oh, yes, even though the ride has been rough,

my life has been filled with moments of exquisite joy, love, and pleasure, and these are what keep me generally optimistic.

:-)

:hi:

DemEx

[Az]

51. No offense taken and welcome

Do not worry about some of our firey rhetoric. This is a big tent. The price of admission does not include giving up you'r beliefs. In fact we are better able to accomodate society the more we understand the beliefs that go into it.

There will be of course those that disagree with you'r beliefs having messages of their own. The key here is that we accept that others have varying beliefs. We do not presume that they should be made to believe the truths we have found. We certainly can discuss them but even that is not required.

So welcome to DU and thanks for sharing. Now lets get rid of Bush* :D

[johnnie]

52. Thank you for sharing

That was very well put. I am terrible at writing these things, much better in person explaining and answering questions. You seemed to sum up a lot of my beliefs quite well.
And welcome to DU.

[GreenPartyVoter]

46. Yes, maybe not everyone does, but I think some folks

choose to spend more than one lifetime in corporeal form.

[WoodrowFan]

47. No (nt)