Got slammed on a general discussion post about F 9/11

[newdealer]

I made some remarks to the effect that I wasn't blown over by F 9/11.
It's what I think. Am I allowed to have a dissenting opinion? It was like peasants with pitchforks. I was trying to describe the attitudes of people I know that F 9/11 was going to move this country so much, that everyone will be ready to vote Bush out of office. I know many people who believe it. And I stated that I didn't think the movie lived up to it's hype, and I think what we are facing with this administration, the movie was somehow lacking. Disagree with me if you want, but everyone was so defensive about the film they were ready to brand me a traitor.

[NightTrain]

1. Unfortunately, a depressing number of DU's long-timers suffer from...

...the "pack" mentality.

Now if you REALLY want to start a flame war in GD, say something positive about Ralph Nader! :evilgrin:

[Catch22Dem]

3. HAHAHA

No shit

[sus]

42. or just say something intelligent like

Somebody needs to drink them a tall glass of shut up juice!

[Catch22Dem]

2. Didn't read the thread

But you have every right to your own opinion. I'm sure as hell not going to fault you for it.

[newdealer]

7. How would you like a Left-Wing-Thought Police

If we can't have a tolerance of opinion here, then it's a pretty dismal situation.

[Zomby Woof]

12. buck up

I've got over 20,000 posts of independent, contrarian, non-ideologically orthodox thought in my wake, and not once saw fit to whine about my treatment. Post without fear - no excuses.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftistagitator]

35. Thought Police?

I didn't realize people vigorously disagreeing with you was now considered thought police. Did they raid your home? How long were you in prison for? Why must hyperbole be so common these days? Jesus, you remind me of a guy I saw who compared the store we were in to Auschwitz when security wanted to check his bag. Your opinion is tolerated, obviously, otherwise your posts and account would have been pulled. I wouldn't walk into a church and announce there is no God and be suprised when people get mad, why are you suprised that attacking a liberal icon on a liberal website attracts heated responses?

[newdealer]

39. Right again

I said was "how would you like a Left-Wing Thought Police" See, it's a rhetorical question.

[Gothic Sponge]

4. LET"S LYNCH HIM!!!!!!!

Some people i talk to were not blown away by F9/11 because they knew all the facts before they saw the film. IMO it's still a powerful movie and i will be going again to see it soon.

[POed_Ex_Repub]

5. As long as u vote Kerry on Nov 2nd... ur okay by me no matter what

Well... within reason ;)

[HEyHEY]

6. You're new here....don't sweat it

THere's alotof fucks there who think they are god's gift to political discussion. BUT, they all have the same opinion, offer nothing new and are even more narrowminded than rimjob.

[newdealer]

13. That's why I left!

But I came back to see if things had changed. I guess not. So it's back to street registrations, handing out flyers, organizing meetings

[HEyHEY]

17. Don't do that

Seriously, what GD needs is independatn thinkers, I don't give a fuck what people think. If we allow pack mentality to rule GD, we're no better than Free republic.

[Zomby Woof]

8. gotta have a thick skin to post on DU

Coming in here to whine about the "peasants" in GD will not help your case. :nopity:

[newdealer]

19. Give me a break

The only reason that people have the guts to post juvenile comments, or refuse to engage in a real debate here is because they're anonymously sitting in their homes, miles away from me. What's the point? I welcome a good thoughtful debate, but posting insulting and irrelevant comments and running away doesn't take a thick skin. It takes a childish mentality.

[Maddy McCall]

52. If what you said in your post to which I am responding is really how you..

feel, and if you see no point in debating with "anonymous" people, then why do you feel the need to spread your apathy to the Lounge.

It appears that you find SOME merit in internet-forum debate, or you wouldn't be in the lounge whining about it.

[newdealer]

53. apathy?

It isn't apathy I was talking about. It was the lack of any real debate or even tolerance for slightly dissenting opinions. As far as anonymity goes, it's the same reason why people drive cars to work rather than take mass transit. You can be the biggest obnoxious careless driver, and nobody can confront you. Whereas on mass transit, you have to act civil because you're in the company of fellow commuters, and it's harder to act like a jerk on a bus.

I posted in the DU Lounge because I thought--wrongly-- that the tone would be less shrill and even supportive. I thought that like in the teacher's lounge, you could vent some frustration, and share stories with other DUers who have had similar experiences. Again I was wrong to think that, because apparently expressing frustration from some incident on a message board you start is met with a bunch of "machismo" comments that I was "whining" or not cut out for this level of debate because someone might disagree with my point.

I was hoping to get feedback from others who saw the film and having a discussion about what others thought and why. Hell, I get into heated arguments with people and they are usually extremely productive. That didn't happen because people weren't addressing my original post, or moving the debate in a more challenging direction. That didn't happen. There were some comments that brought up interesting issues. But I guess the fact that in my original post I stated that I wasn't blown away by Michael Moore's movie, and found it kind of lacking certain elements, I was immediately bombarded with defensive comments that said if I thought the film was lacking then it was probably me that was lacking.

Great stuff. Well-thought-out, insightful, tolerant of a difference of opinion-- even though there was no follow ups to further discuss the issue. And to make it a paragon of deep thought: vapid and juvenile interruptions in the thread, such as, "Yawn" and "Thank you. We'll call you when we want to hear from you again"

So maybe I'm just not cut out for the level of intellectually challenging debate on DU. I agree, and it's because I left name-calling, playing cowboy, and small-minded antagonism when I was twelve

[newdealer]

55. some more expliations.

Go down this thread to my post about preparing to enter the General Discussion Board, and I think you may find it interesting.

[Union Thug]

9. Get a rope!!!!

[Mr Bojangles]

10. As far as I'm concerned

The movie was made to force you to think for yourself, question the world around you and come up with your own conclusions. I'm not trying to stir up any shit or be called a traitor myself, but those that follow Mr. Moore as if he's preaching the gospel are just as bad as the freepers on any given day of the week.

Think for yourself, it's better for those around you ;)

[The_Casual_Observer]

11. Would you fart and belch in church?

Would you yell fire in a theatre?
Would you shout obscenities at the thanksgiving dinner table?

Some things just aren't acceptable in the particular setting for many reasons. However, there are appropriate places and a time for all these things.

[Zomby Woof]

14. I fucked in a church once

About the only time I ever enjoyed being in a church too.

[HEyHEY]

25. No, but puked in a church once...

Drinking with the preacher's daughter all night...what an ugly scene

[DS1]

32. It's ridiculous to see your examples lined up against not

thoroughly enjoying F911.

Get real.

[newdealer]

44. I enjoyed the movie

All I said was, considering the need for urgent and effective action
against the unconstitutional and criminal actions of what the Republicans are doing under our noses, what I've heard from people that they believed that this film would solve the problem. And I still think that Moore could have explored the connections that the Bush family to oil, the CiA to training the Taliban, with a less sarcastic tone. Why? Because this is knowledge that most people don't know about, but have to in order to understand the degree of political manipulation going on in this country. And if this movie as all that average folks see on this topic, they still won't know so much important and disturbing acts of our government.

That is why I was somewhat disappointed with the film.

62. Constructive criticism is different than shouting fire in a theater

Constructive criticism of Michael Moore should not be considered analogous to obscenities at the Thankssgiving table. And if it is considered analogous that proves the original poster's point in my opinion.

Hell, Jean-Luc Godard who knows a thing or two about filmmaking criticized Moore and I don't think he's a freeper by any stretch of the imagination.

[lpbk2713]

15. There are some GD inhabitants that are natural-born contraryists.

If you say up they will say down. If you say now they say later. If you say day they say night. You get the picture. Don't worry about it.

[Zomby Woof]

16. that's "contrarian"

And no, I didn't post that to be contrary.

Yes, I did.

[lpbk2713]

38. .

(gotcha)

[skooooo]

40. No there's NOT!

[Bat Boy]

18. Michael Moore is a GOD!

And you have angered him!

There will be no end to your torment. Enormous boils will cover your most private places. Sacrifice as many goats as you like, but Our Lord Moore is an angry and vengeful god, and now he wants you to have a rotten life. We should stone you to death, but that would only end the suffering that you have brought upon yourself.

Do they still sell hair shirts? 'Cause you need to get one, and pronto.

You should have kept your mouth shut. You are so fucked...

Can you OD on sarcasm? I think I just did. Feel kinda queasy...

[newdealer]

20. Funny if it weren't true

That was close to many of the postings. When you say "stone me to death" will that involve inhaling a certain substance?

[Bat Boy]

22. There will be no stoning of any kind.

Particlarly if there's a chance you might enjoy it.

Infidel.

[Blue-Jay]

30. Hahaha!

Weirdo.

:D

[OneBlueSky]

21. don't know if it how long I've been on DU . . .

or how long I've been on the planet . . . whichever, I seem to have reached some kind of plateau where I no longer have much interest in heated arguments about opposing viewpoints . . . particularly when the subject is strictly an oppinion as opposed to hard facts . . .

kudos for standing up in the face of what often indeed is a pack mentality . . . if you thought the movie was lacking, so be it . . . that opinion is just as valid as any that says it's great . . .

(personally, I haven't seen it yet so my own opinion will have to wait) . . .

[newdealer]

26. Thanks

and hope to see some of you in NYC in a month. No computers, just banners, tear gas, and police clubs. Just like 4 years ago.

Bye

[neverborn]

24. I said Michael Moore is often misleading. Man were people mad. :p

[Kickin_Donkey]

27. On the other thread you were just being a nitpicking ...

twit. Another example of a navel-gazer who has to find something wrong with something instead of just appreciating F911 for what it is and what it's done. Grow up.

[HEyHEY]

29. Come straight

Don't call him a knit-picker man, the guy raised questions the right would ask, we need to address them.

[newdealer]

31. The stupid and useless energy

Spent trying to attack my criticisms are very similar to the ones addressed in "Beyond Fahrenheit 9/11" Is Marcus Reichert a "nitpicking twit" because he raised the issue that more urgent action needs to be taken by those of us who understand the level of tyranny that this government has approached. And all I was saying was that so many people had huge expectations for what this film would do, in terms of political fallout, that as we gaze at our navels on our computers, the Republicans in the Senate and the House are taking drastic measures to silence political dissent IN THE GOVERNMENT!. Get it! Fine, go watch the film. I wasn't impressed with it as others were, but turn on C-Span and watch the house Republicans hold a vote open on repealing parts of the Patriot Act until the get enough Republican votes to block it.

Did you see Jay Rockefeller seething because the Republicans want to delay the more damaging section of the Intelligence Report until after election.

Are you aware, or gazing at your navel of the insipid tyranny that is slowly taking over the government to a degree that has no equivalent to anything in the history of the country. Sorry for nit-picking your hero's film, but as a student of U.S. History, this country is as fragile as it was in 1860.

so no, I haven't been gazing at my navel, I've been doing research under the direction of Morris Vogel -- probably one of the foremost observers of U.S. History, and if you don't know it yet, pretty soon you're going to find out that we're sitting on a powder keg ready to explode and dismantle the system of government that we know today.

[WilliamPitt]

28. I've seen the film four times now

Took my mother, her two friends, and three other people over the course of the last two weeks. It gave me a chance to really analyze it, instead of simply experience it.

Of course it could have been better. Perhaps the Florida stuff at the beginning is an automatic turnoff for fence-sitting conservative types. Perhaps the humor is heavy-handed and unnecessary on occasion.

But the reason people belted you is because they saw all they believe and know to be true validated on a very large screen. Say what you want about his style, but Moore got nothing wrong on the facts.

For myself, seeing everything I have been working on every day for the last three years put forth in a continuum complete with original b-roll was an exceptional experience. It was thus for many others. Understand that, and you'll understand the less-than-cuddly reaction you got.

I'm not saying they were right, or that you 'got what you deserved.' I'm just hippin' you to the jive, as it were. :)

[newdealer]

33. Thanks

I just posted a response to an insulting remark. If you read it, you'll see that I too have been immersed in what is happening, and has happened over the last three years. The research that Dr. Vogel and I have obtained, some through leaks, discreetly transfered State Dept analysis, and tracing these people "connecting the dots" we really are afraid of a breakdown of our Constitutional Government. We're not crackpots or alarmists, in fact we hope things can be stopped, but the amount of domestic covert and legislative activity by the Bush Administration if we don't really inform the people, or at least motivate the opposition, this country is headed for a very dark period.

[Bridget Burke]

36. You have a story of your own to tell--so tell it.

Moore is telling his story in his way. He's been making films instead of working on his Ph.D., so he's learned how to communicate with a wide range of people.

Why don't you make a piece of art about all this important information you've uncovered? Share it. Or are you saving it all for your dissertation?

Your anger with Moore seems to indicate frustration with your own current situation. Don't worry. Eventually, you'll have tenure & Michael Moore will still be making movies.

[newdealer]

60. my story

I'm not ANGRY at Michael Moore. I was talking about his movie. It's not anger that I was expressing, it was simply an opinion and an observation about the film. The frustration that I have expressed has to do with the reaction I received by posting a comment that was critical of the film. And I got the anger from the people who posted. It was as if I killed the golden calf.

As for my own situation, I'm not trying for tenure. I don't want to be stuck in the hell of academia. I'm a free-lance writer and an adjunct instructor. The work that Dr. Vogel and I are doing is to try and gather as much information and analysis we can. But the book that will ultimately will come from this work will be a historical and academic work that exposes the many abuses of this administration and the covert infiltration of US dissenting groups I'm helping him write it so I am privy to information that would make your hair stand on end. It's not going to be a quickly assembled book to get Bush out of office. It will be more of a historical account and political analysis of the events leading to 9/11, the aftermath. It is a work of an historian who wants to record the appalling use of tyranny and documenting the complete disregard for the constitutional process.

One fascinating project is tracing the roots of Islamic terrorism back to the early Eighties and the Reagan Administration, who funded and trained the Taliban with CIA operatives. In fact, there doesn’t seem to be any armed radical Islamic fundamentalist until the CIA begins training them, and the Reagan White House supplied the funds and arms to the Mujahadine, and the Taliban. In short, we created these radical Islamic terror organizations, and then turned a blind eye to what they were doing after the Soviet Union left Afghanistan. The pattern goes on and on. George W. Bush calls them “Evil Doers” but a decade before, his daddy had no problem supplying them with money and weapons. Nice?

[LibertyorDeath]

34. Okay list 3 Good things about F 9/11

or No Soup For You!!

What you watin for.

Let me plug in my Freep Detector First.

Give me a sec it takes time to warm up....

[newdealer]

56. 3 good things

Well, I thought there were many more than three. But if you only want three, then here goes:

1. the opening
2. showing what "Injured" really looks like.
3. The Marines recruting inner city kids.

I don't know which is more depressing: The Freep Detector joke. Or the idea that you even think I have a right-wing leaning because I was critical of Michael Moore's film

[leftyandproud]

37. no dissent!

now be quiet

[afraid_of_the_dark]

41. If you can't disagree, what's the point of debate?

Besides, I agree with you. *putting on her flame retardant suit* I thought the movie was way too kind. There were a LOT of things that Moore left out... but I guess he thought no one would want to watch a 20 hour movie. :evilgrin:

[skypilot]

43. I liked the movie but...

...wasn't blown away by it. A couple days before I saw it I was angered by a reviewer who described the movie as being, among other things, "curiously half-assed". After seeing the film and thinking about it for awhile I realized that I kind of agreed with this reviewer who had initially pissed me off. I know some of you will want an example of what I found "curiously half-assed" about it, so here's one scene that comes to mind:

The BBC footage of Bush right before he announced that we were going to war, when he didn't know that the camera was still rolling. Lots of people have complained about things that Moore left out of the movie but here was footage that he actually included but then he cut it short so that we didn't even see the worst of it. The original footage is probably less than a minute long and shows Bush acting goofy and smirking and making faces and then practicing looking serious before addressing the country. I'm sure lots of you have seen it. Moore only shows the portion where Bush is getting his hair fixed and is giving someone offscreen a goofy sideways look. I was perplexed as to why Moore didn't play the ENTIRE footage, like I said it wasn't that long and I think it would have shown a lot of people just what an ass this man was making of himself right before sending our troops into this mess.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

45. Why do you care what other people said about your post?

Just make your points and move on. You've got a right to state your view, they've got a right to state theirs. I wouldn't waste time worrying or wondering about what others 'really' mean.

[newdealer]

47. others' comments

I started the thread to hear other's differing opinons. I wanted to know what other people were thinking. It was my intention ( which seems impossible on this site) to start a productive dialogue. What I mostly got instead were increadably defensive statements about Michael Moore, personal attacks, comments that were little more than "na na nanana" and the impression that if I didn't like the movie, then it was I who was flawed, and should never have raised the issue.

And what's the use of a dicussion board if we're not trying to "figure out what other people 'really' mean?' We shouldn't have to figure it out, we should be having constructive dialogues.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

58. Seems to me you heard the others comments and didn't like them.

Maybe you're reading things into their comments that might not actually be there. It sounds to me like you may be a little touchy. Its a message board, its not real actual meaningful debate.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

46. Don't leave over that!

While the movie included stories that most Americans had not seen, I wasn't terribly impressed with it...I chalked it up to the fact that I knew most of the info in it.

In terms of the message Moore sent..it was decent but it could have been more powerful...there were indeed gems in it.

Mostly what excited me about the movie were all the people hearing and seeing some of the items in it for the first time.

[3rdCoast Productions]

48. General Discussion sounds fierece!

Haven't been there yet, I just found out about the site from a friend. I'm liking it so far, but perhaps I should stay clear of the General Discussion.

[Droopy]

49. Welcome to DU, 3rdCoast

Don't worry, the water's warm. Hop right on in!

GD ain't so bad, just be prepared to be disagreed with if you post anything other than, "Bush sucks!"

[newdealer]

51. Preparing to post on GD

If your message is minutely out of step with the views of the majority of the members here, be prepared for:

1. Expect overly defensive, knee-jerk reactions.

2. You will have to explain the ideas expressed in your post
repeatedly.

3. There will be random, useless and juvenile remarks that have
nothing to do with the discussion.

4. Don't expect to have a reasoned, thoughtful, debate.

5. Go in prepared for an atmosphere of frustrated antagonism, and that
no matter how hard you try to engage them in a thoughtful debate,
most of the people just want to post their own opinions and leave.

6. If you go to the DU Lounge to discuss the idiotic messages threads
that resulted from your original post, you'll get a bunch of
ridiculously macho comments telling you that you're a "whiner' or
"crybaby" and that you got to learn to tough it out.

7. Then you'll have to figure out what you said that sounded at all
like crying or whining, unless it's your comment about the
depressing idiocy of what happened in the message thread of your
original post.

8. This is probably the toughest part of the preparation for entering
the General Discussion Forum. I just want to take a minute to
explain my background before proceeding with "8". I am currently
employed as an adjunct faculty member at Temple University. I have,
for the past four years, taught a required course that exposes the
students to the major works of Western Civilization. I teach the
first section of the course's two semesters. We start with
discussing Classical Greek works, like The Republic, Oedipus, and
Pericles Funeral Oration. Then we move on to the religious texts:
The Old Testament, The New Testament, The Koran, and the Hindu's
Bhagavad Gita. We end the semester with an introduction to the the
Renaissance-- I use Othello, The opinions and writings of Galileo,
and finally Machiavelli;s The Prince.

I mention this because I have spent the last 4 years facing
roomfuls of students who have no or little interest in most of
these works and my job is to get them to relate to the texts, so
they can critically analyze the fundamental assumptions and
building blocks of Western Civilization. It is, at times, extremely
frustrating,and disheartening to see the youth of this country go
through life without ever critically examining it. Such as, what
role in our society are we constantly reinforced to be? Consumers?
Citizens with civic responsibilities? All the texts have the
enormous potential to address issues that face us today.

So I have spent a great deal of time, making comments, engaging
kids that don't want to be engaged in a discussion that makes them
uncomfortable because it forces them to think critically about our
society, what we value, what they value, even question why do they
have to go to college so they'll be employable when they graduate.

So the bluster of many people on this board is annoying, but I
know, first hand, how to get people to think.

What perhaps is the most difficult stage in preparation to go into
the General Discussion forum is this. When you join a group like
the Democratic Underground, you want to feel like you are not the
only one with certain political opinions. You want to feel
connected to others who think along the same lines as you. You want
to counter a feeling of alienation. As Liberals, we are not
reactionary fear-mongers. We like to deliberate-- in fact, the term
"Liberal" in the political sense, is to have an attitude of
tolerance, respect for differences of thought. In short, try and
accommodate many views, rather than enforcing one

So the final stage for entering the General Discussion Board, is to
prepare yourself of finding little practice of all of those
qualities of what our party stands for among the members here. You
might find it different, but I feel more useful changing the
attitudes of a classroom of cynical kids.

Good luck

[Bamboose]

50. I can match it . . .

I haven't seen it yet - have had to work unexpected overtime LOTS the past few weeks - and to hear my friends, you'd think I'd missed the moon landing or something. I mean, they're THIS close to calling me names and dragging me forcibly.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

54. GET OUT OF HERE YOU GOD DAMNED FREEPER!!!!!

just kidding


Of course you can have an opinion contary to the norm (ever see my Catholic threads :eyes: ?)

I think that, with all the crap that gets us frothed up and pissed off daily when we get something important to rally behind emotions run high.

[newdealer]

57. one of the problems

One of the major problems that faces the Democrats, and hasn't gone away, is that because the party embraces so many different views and different interests, it is hard to attack with a single-minded focus. The Republicans can, and have done this. They rally the religious left to vote on cultural issues, and they have it sewn up. We Democrats have failed to do that since we lost the white southern voters. The problem is who or what can we do to organize our party with the same effectiveness as the Republicans have.

I have part of an answer, a risky one. Look at the reaction Howard Dean created with his campaign. This is what I was trying to do with my post about F 9/11. We can't be a party whose only focus is get rid of Bush.

We have to define what this party stands for. My post essentially said that there are many people who were convinced that the film would motivate the populace to rise up and kick Bush out. My concern was what Democrat has a focused vision for the country. And meanwhile, the republicans are manipulating the legislative prosaic. I lived through the Reagan years, and I can't imagine the damage to our country that Bush will do if we Democrats have no way of countering him. So my statement was that in order to win this election really depends on mobilizing people by a focused vision for America.

i guess i felt that all the hype and focus on F 9/11 was diverting attention to more despicable actions that the Republicans are pulling right under our noses. So we have to be diligent in watching what they are trying to pass or block in the Congress, and provide the American people with a clear and better alternative to Bush. So I was trying to bring this issue up, and in a way try to formulate what that vision would be. But everybody just focused on my comments I made about the film, which just angered most people and it never progressed any further.

[Bridget Burke]

59. Start a thread to tell us YOUR story!

You & the famous Dr. Vogel obviously have much important information. Why don't you share it with us?

Michael Moore's film is not for advanced students. It's aimed at beginners. Take this opportunity to explain the more advanced topics to those who are ready for them.

You're frustrated because you're living on a pittance & teaching bored undergraduates while Moore is making good money. He decided to learn the craft of filmmaking rather than going for a Ph.D., but surely your life will eventually improve.

And since you're angered that people are posting here anonymously, I trust you'll be supplying us with your full name, address & phone number.

If you're so hurt by a bit of controversy, you ought to be glad that your students are so brain-dead. What if they actually asked questions?

[newdealer]

61. my story again

I'm not ANGRY at Michael Moore. I was talking about his movie. It's not anger that I was expressing, it was simply an opinion and an observation about the film. The frustration that I have expressed has to do with the reaction I received by posting a comment that was critical of the film. And I got the anger from the people who posted. It was as if I killed the golden calf.

As for my own situation, I'm not trying for tenure. I don't want to be stuck in the hell of academia. I'm a free-lance writer and an adjunct instructor. The work that Dr. Vogel and I are doing is to try and gather as much information and analysis we can. But the book that will ultimately will come from this work will be a historical and academic work that exposes the many abuses of this administration and the covert infiltration of US dissenting groups I'm helping him write it so I am privy to information that would your hair stand on end. It's not going to be a quickly assembled book to get Bush out of office. It will be more of a historical account and political analysis of the events leading to 9/11, the aftermath. It is a work of an historian who wants to record the appalling use of tyranny and documenting the complete disregard for the constitutional process.

One fascinating project is tracing the roots of Islamic terrorism back to the early Eighties and the Reagan Administration, who funded and trained the Taliban with CIA operatives. In fact, there doesn’t seem to be any armed radical Islamic fundamentalist until the CIA begins training them, and the Reagan White House supplied the funds and arms to the Mujahadine, and the Taliban. In short, we created these radical Islamic terror organizations, and then turned a blind eye to what they were doing after the Soviet Union left Afghanistan. The pattern goes on and on. George W. Bush calls them “Evil Doers” but a decade before, his daddy had no problem supplying them with money and weapons. Nice?

[HuckleB]

63. Alas...

I can't imagine what they wrote to or about you, condering that I once wrote my opinion that the part showing Baghdad before the war was overdone, too sticky sweet, and, thus, lost its power to hold sway with the point Moore was trying to make. It was then intimated that I was possibly a Freeper troll, evil and just plain worthless as a human being.

It's bizarre. All I offered was a critique of effectiveness. Nothing more, and yet...

Have you seen "Control Room" yet? Check it out, if you can.

[newdealer]

64. Alas II

all I said was that I wasn't blown away by the film. i made some critical observations. I also said that it was over-hyped, which probably added to my let down. I stated that people with high expectations that the film would have a watershed impact on the political atmosphere would be disappointed. And what we have to do if we want real change is get focused and active and pound the street, because sitting around waiting for a movie's impact to change things is not that realistic.

Okay, some deep criticism of some people's expectations for the movie. A few criticisms of the film; I thought "Bowling for Columbine" was a stronger film. I also said the all the focus on this film was distracting the public from some of the slimy , undemocratic and maybe even unconstitutional actions perpetrated by the Republicans in the House and Senate. Right before i posted my comments, I was watching C-Span as the senate Intelligence report was released-- but just the first part that was controlled by the Republicans. And one of the Republican Senators said that the second part-- the part written mostly by the Democrats, and less likely to cast a favorable light on the President-- might not be released until after the election.

I thought, this is nothing less than a tyrannical theft of our government, by one party, no Michael Moore film should be overshadowing or taking attention away from the current political events.

Perhaps too deep, too impatient, maybe too confusing for the average DUer. I was trying to provoke a debate, about the fiilm, what people's expectations were and where do we go from here.

Okay, maybe that is a lot to ask people to think about. But what was the most frustrating thing about it, was that they all reacted as If I was some right-wing nut attacking Michael Moore-- and apparently you can't say anything critical about him or his film. There wasn't any discussion on the board. It was mostly a thread of defensive, angry attacks at me, some just downright childish. There were only a few who tried to engage in a debate, but they spent most of their time telling other members that we all have the right to our own opinions.

I'm out of here. You can check the thread. It's been archived Farenheit 9/11
posted by newdealer