So whatchoo think about SUVs?

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

Seriously, let it out. Do you own one? Hate them? Secretly want one? Think they should all be destroyed? Wish all cars were now hybrid or alternative fuel or really don't give a rip one way or another?

If you don't drive an SUV what do you think of them on the road? If you do, why did you buy one?

Just curious.

[Cobalt Violet]

1. I'm so sick of them cutting me off!

[wryter2000]

2. I saw an armored car on the freeway today

And for a minute, I thought it was the new SUV/Hummer monstrosity. Get those damned things out of my face!

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

5. Ah Hummers a whole subclass of SUVs we could talk about

Personally I think in a few years we'll see moms driving actual tanks to take the kids to soccer practice.

And maybe entire buses for one four person family. Luxury buses.

Drive your RV three blocks to the grocery store!!!! Yee-ha!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

3. They are appropriate for some situations.

For instance, let's say you had a vacation home in Idaho that your family uses for ski trips. It certainly would be appropriate to have an SUV there. But for a Washington DC commute, it would be innappropriate.

[4_Legs_Good]

4. I have learned to hate them...

Originally I thought they were cool.

I own two hybrids (Insight and Civic) and an old Toyota pick-up truck.

Stupid SUVs are impossible to see around (especially in the Insight), they take up too much space on the road and in parking spots. Nobody I know who has ever owned one EVER used the "Sport" or "utility" part of the vehicle - at least no more than a station wagon could have done.

And WHY OH WHY does everyone need to tint all their damned windows? It's a road hazard, I tell you.

My wife wants a mini-van. I'm resisting that one.

david

[Catch22Dem]

8. I agree on all points except...

window tinting. My windows are tinted throughout. When the heat index hits 110 like it did today, I'm thankful for my tint.

[4_Legs_Good]

17. Ahhh, well maybe for heat

I live in Sothern California, and it never gets that hot (in my area at least). Everyone here tints their windows to be cool, and you can't see through them. I know privacy is great, but it's also nice to be able to see oncoming traffic when making a right turn at an intersection.

grumble grumble grumble

david

[Catch22Dem]

26. True n/t

[Placebo]

6. We own one.

And hate it. It gets horrible gas mileage and doesn't have a smooth ride. We would get a Prius if the waiting list wasn't like TWO YEARS LONG :wow:

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

Get on the waiting list.

By the time you are ready, you'll have one!

[4_Legs_Good]

10. You can get a hybrid Civic without the wait...

Though it doesn't have as many gadgets, the back seats don't fold down, and it doesn't look cool and futuristic!

Ours gets about 45MPG which is about the same as the Prius.

david

[Placebo]

16. If only it was bigger! :(

would love to get the civic but its a bit too small for us, maybe if there was a hybrid accord :)

[4_Legs_Good]

19. Is the Prius bigger than the Civic?

We had a Camry before we got the Civic and definitely noticed the interior size difference, though we adapted pretty well. But we're only a family of 3 and one's in a car seat.

Everything will be available hybrid in a few years.

david

[Placebo]

53. Prius is bigger...

though its not INSANELY bigger, its closer to a camry inside. :)

The only thing holding us back is my 6'4" father who absolutely can't/won't make something the size of a civic his main auto. lol

[4_Legs_Good]

63. Ahhhhh

I drove in one of the new ones recently. It did feel roomier than the Civic.

Well good luck, and get on that waiting list! They look cool too. If we had it to do over again, we might have gone with a Prius, but I have been very happy with the Civic and supremely happy with the Insight. A shame they're discontinuing the latter.

david

[midnight armadillo]

116. Replace it then

There are plenty of sedans and several wagons that'll get 30+ mpg on the highway. The Prius is nice but it's even more environmentally friendly for you to buy a used car.

[Parche]

7. stupid utility vehicles

I CANT STAND THEM


I dont care if the RAV 4 gets 25 miles to the gallon
I cant stand any of them
they are ugly, most of them waste gas
they hog the road
they are ego driven
and fad driven
only followers have them , not leaders

[vivalarev]

13. then tell me parche...

what do leaders drive? a bus?

[Catch22Dem]

29. Alternative fuel vehicles. n/t

[vivalarev]

9. I still dont understand the hatred...

why do people hate SUV drivers...granted most of them drive like assholes, and sometime i should be included in that group, but i drove a piece of shit car for years and always wanted a nice ride. so i bought one. and, i love it. and you wanna know something else? i get better gas mileage than most other cars on the road. when i didnt have one, i was just jealous of those who did. now i have one, and i say go "cheney" yourself to those that think they are evil...just my opinion, but i love my truck!!!!

[Catch22Dem]

30. They're evil

And I'm "cheneying" myself as we speak. :evilgrin:

Seriously, they suck.

[baldguy]

61. Because they aren't used for their intended purpose.

99% of "Sport Utility Vehicles" are used for neither sport nor utility. They are styled and marketed to appeal to the inadequacies of their owners.

Stepford wives to be able to drive down to the local Walgreen's to get their Xanex & Valium refills without killing themselves by stumbling down the street. And to hell with anybody getting in the way.

Good ol'boys who need something bigger, badder & louder than anything else in the neighborhood. But heaven forbid that he'd actually take it off road - oh, no - GET DIRT ON IT!

Being an asshole is a requirement to own one of these obscene behemoths if you don't have a NEED for one.

[Wcross]

68. Don't hold back baldguy, tell us how you really feel.

I look at them as glorified minivans. I think alot of SUV owners don't want to drive a minivan because it lowers their status. I agree that 99% never leave the pavement.

[northofdenali]

120. Baldguy, that's one of my main arguments against them.

One of the things I like about our Jeep is that it's an off-road vehicle built to be street-legal.

The rest are pretty much street vehicles "built" to go off-road.

Here, however, after a number of years consideration, I've decided the good outweighs the bad, particularly given terrain/climate arguments and an 84-year-old father-in-law who may need fast transport where an ambulance can't get through.

[Parche]

139. we dont hate

The drivers, just the fad of the SUV, its like these reality
shows on TV nowadays, they are coming out by the dozens, and they
are all ridiculous.
Everytime I see an SUV I want to chop it up into little pieces.
There is no need for them

Have you seen the Pontiac Azteca, that is the ugliest thing on the road
Of course Pontiac, Buick and Oldsmobile make the ugliest cars and trucks anyway, just like the old AMC

[mindfulNJ]

11. I have a Mazda Tribute

We got it to haul a trailer to take kids back and forth to college. We killed our transmission in our old sedan doing that. Incidently, it gets about the same gas mileage as our old sedan (approx.21 hwy),but we will trade it in for a hybrid when my two kids graduate.

[jtb33]

12. We have an SUV...

It's a Chevy Tahoe. We bought for a number of reasons:

- we have horses, and need something that can pull a trailer without struggling up hills.
- we have kids, and are planning on having two more. Combined with hauling ability, it was nice to have an "all-in-one" car.
- yes, it does look cool
- our other car is a Honda Accord (my daily driver)

[Hoping4Change]

14. I despise the things so much so if I ever met someone who owned

one I would terminate the relationship. Anyone who owns one is totally criminally negiligent of destroying the environment. I don't have kids and never will but I look at people who have kids and drive these smog machines baffled by their lack of concern for their progeny. A plus side I suppose is that if any of their kids have an asthma attack they 'll have lots room to lay them in the back as they rush to emergency.

The other thing is that their size seems to be ever increasing along with the expanded egos of those who have to have every status symbol available.


The troubling thing is that pollution is so totally disregarded. Poeple should wake up because with e burgeoning economies in China and India car use is increasing exponentially as is air conditioning and given the pathetic role model North Americans provide which citizen of these countries are going to be at all concerned about the environment.

The other thing that is never mentionned is the damaging effects of huge monster homes that are so sought after. Needlessly huge homes demanding huge amounts of energy resulting in increasing pollution.

Those who drive these beasts please let me know what it will take to get people to wake up to the degedation of planet earth.:mad:

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

15. There are twenty houses on my street

on that street there are eight houses with two SUVs each (16), seven houses with at least one SUV (7), and the other five houses have cars, pick ups, or minivans. That means on one street of twenty houses, there are **23** SUVs. And I don't mean the SMALLER ones either.

I mean Suburbans, Navigators, one Hummer, Expeditions, etc.

The biggest family on the block has three kids. Seriously.

We live in a suburban area of north Texas (the Dallas area) where there are no bad roads or need for off-roading, no snow on the roads in the winter (extremely rare and sanded down immediately if it happens).

[4_Legs_Good]

23. That is the craziest thing I ever heard.

Those damned things are expensive too! Geesh, how do people afford it???

And they whine about an extra $5K for hybrid technology.

david

[Catch22Dem]

35. Would that suburban area be Plano?

Some RICH mofos there. Might explain the hundreds of thousands of dollars in TRUCKS on your street. ;)

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

43. No

but it could be almost ANY street in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area.

Seriously. SUVs are so common here it is really weird when I see a car or two.

[Catch22Dem]

90. That's how it is here too

Sometimes my car is the only "car" I see in the parking lot at work. (Oklahoma)

[mopinko]

18. there is no s in my uv

i have an 93 suburban that that has 260,000 miles on her. i didn't put too many of them on there. she was a fleet vehicle. no carpet, no air, plenty of cup holders, tho. i also have an old benz. hubby takes the commuter train to work, and i mostly work from home. between the 2, we only drive about 12,000 miles a year.
i bought her because i have 5 kids, and we like to camp. i could have gotten a minivan that we could sit in, that could pull the trailer but we could have only taken 2 bags of groceries.
i guess it would have been more energy efficient to skip the kids, but :shrug:
when they get a really good, non-teeny-weenie hybrid out there, i will probably buy it.

[vivalarev]

24. you know what....

this is a sad and tired argument that i guess i will never understand, especially since i own one. i love this site, and most of the arguments on here, but this one is ridiculous. why don't one of you SUV haters try to explain to me why my truck is worse for the environment than any other non-hybrid car out there. my SUV is a Sports edition and I do use it often for off-roading, especially when im at the beach, so tell this LIBERAL, what the fuck is the problem?

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

28. If you ACTUALLY offroad with it

then I'm not talking about you.

I'm talking about people who own gi-normous SUVs that never see anything more strenuous than the drive-thru lane at McDonalds. Who have one or two kids and can fit an entire Mexican village in their SUV. Who buy them because they are cool then bitch about having to take out a small loan every time they gas up.

[4_Legs_Good]

37. Agreed, for the 0.01%

of SUVs out there that are actually used for more than transport around town, go for it.

I have a pick-up truck because I often pick sh*t up that I can't pick up in either of they hybrids. It's got a big dent in it and people drive by all the time asking if they can fix it for some $. I say, no, I don't care what it looks like. They immediately then ask to buy it (almost invariably). I have to explain, "no, I use it when I need it for hauling, I just don't care what it looks like."

Bottom line - we're trying to be environmentally concious. Driving a 8-12 MPG Hummer/Suburban around town, isn't environmentally concious.

If you're not concerned about the environment, don't worry about it - though I think you should pay higher taxes for the wear on the roads.

david

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

44. My husband

owns a Ford F-150 pickup because he does a LOT of hauling around stuff (deliveries for work) in it. It has a standard sized bed, not one of those short beds. It is a very simple truck, got it used for $11 K three years ago. If he didn't haul hundreds of pounds of shit around five days a week, he'd own a car.

[4_Legs_Good]

59. Exactly!

If you need these cars/trucks/suvs then I think it's fine. Buuuuut, I think most people are buying them because they're told they need them.

All that said, nothing beats having different cars for different occassions.

We have the perfect mix:

1 Honda Insight - commuting, solo/duo trips to the store - 60 MPG
2 Honda Civic Hybrid - Family trips (local and long distance) - 45 MPG
3 1992 Toyota Pick up - Hauling stuff around, buying big items, helping people move - 25 MPG

Mostly the truck just sits there.

I'd love to add an electric only car to the mix for in-town stuff, but nobody makes them anymore, and their environmental benefits are only so-so unless you charge them yourself with solar or wind power.

Plus I don't have room!

david

[Catch22Dem]

91. Hey David

You say "helping people move" as if that were a BENEFIT to owning a truck. HAHAHAHAHA. Before I sold my pick-up, I SWORE I was gonna get one of those bumper stickers that says "Yes this is my truck, and no I won't help you move."

:evilgrin:

[4_Legs_Good]

128. LMAO

Good point, good point!

:)

david

[taxidriver]

135. having lived in idaho and northern virginia, i agree...

there's a difference. too many jerkoffs in NOVA just like their big shiny luxurious hummers and escalades.

in the north and west- shoot, anywhere rural, most people actually work with the damn things. i had an f250 that i never considered sporty, but it sure could haul stuff. and it got about 13 miles a gallon, highway.

[Hoping4Change]

96. The More You Guzzle, The More You Pollute from Sierra Club

website

Represented below is the total tonnage of CO2 produced by SUVs and other vehicles over a 124,000-mile lifetime.

Ford Excursion 13 mpg - 134 tons of CO2
JeepGrand
Cherokee 18 mpg - 96 tons of CO2

Ford Taurus 23 mpg - 74 tons of CO2


HondaCivicHX 36 mpg - 48 tons of CO2


Honda Insight 65 mpg - 20 tons of CO2


http://www.sierraclub.org/globalwarming/suvreport/pollution.asp

[Worst Username Ever]

20. SUVs are for offroading and

pickup trucks are for hauling. Otherwise what is the point.

My own hypocrisy: I would choose an SUV over a minivan if I had kids.

[achtung_circus]

21. I think they are lame.

They are today's version of the station wagon for some. They do have more room than a sedan for transporting stuff. However, I believe most people buy them because they symbolize "freedom". Most people don't need a 4x4 and if they do an SUV is a poor choice.

Anyone serious about moving through difficult terrain and weather knows that SUVs are too high, too narrow and too short. People who require a 4x4 for work, that's for a serious purpose, no cell phone and AMA card, almost without exception will pick a pickup truck with 4x4 option. Nothing sporty, you understand, this isn't supposed to be about testosterone.

My favourite story is one that happened to me about 5 years ago. There was 8" of new snow, no plough had been through, it was 6:00a.m. and I was travelling at about 60 klicks (40mph). Some fool in his SUV came blowing by, 4x4 and bulletproof, right?. He blew by, and I thought, some day sunshine, that's going to catch up with you. He got about 200metres ahead of me and started doing doughnuts across the highway. He sailed off the road, through the road allowance and ended up parked against a fence.

I stopped, made sure he was OK and then buggered off. I wasn't going to interfere with his karma.

[ohiosmith]

22. I love mine.

[Catch22Dem]

25. Hate them with every fiber of my being.

I'm dead serious. I think the're the single worst thing ever invented for non-military use. (Military use items can get much worse...think mustard gas.)

They're absolutely positively worthless. Give me one reason to own an SUV (other than "because I want to") and I'll give you an alternative that blows SUVs away. Seriously. I like to do it. If I'm proven wrong, I'll buy you a Coke (Pepsi sux ;) )

ON EDIT: jbt33 has a good reason for owning one.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

32. Oooo can I play?

I'm not an SUV kinda person, but I'll give you reasons I've heard my SUV-owning friends give! Does that work?

Ok here goes:

You need an SUV because everyone else is driving big vehicles so you need it to feel safer!

You need an SUV because if you are in an accident, you are more likely to squish the other person than to BE squished! (Ok that's VERY similar to the first reason!)

You need an SUV to haul around all your shit!

You need an SUV because you might decide to take up camping someday!

You need an SUV because you want your kids to be able to be VERY far from you when you are in the vehicle together and in a big SUV, they could be 50 feet away!

Answer THOSE! LOL!

[Catch22Dem]

50. Otay

You need an SUV because everyone else is driving big vehicles so you need it to feel safer!
Kinda lame, but if it makes you "feel" a certain way, there's not much anyone can say. However, and I know I'm gonna be asked to cite these stats, but stats show SUVs aren't all that safe.

You need an SUV because if you are in an accident, you are more likely to squish the other person than to BE squished! (Ok that's VERY similar to the first reason!)
See above ;)

You need an SUV to haul around all your shit!
Van, Pick-up, Panel Truck, Flatbed, etc...

You need an SUV because you might decide to take up camping someday!
Ok, that's funny. You can most likely get a van that would be much nicer. Especially something like a conversion van. However, save your money and get a pick-up and a 5th Wheel.

You need an SUV because you want your kids to be able to be VERY far from you when you are in the vehicle together and in a big SUV, they could be 50 feet away!
Hmmm, damn good one. Might owe you a Coke, but those 15 passenger vans are LOOOOONG. Get one of those and put 'em in the back.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

57. Hee hee

the last one made me giggle. Good one. No, no Coke owed here. Good job.

[Catch22Dem]

69. I was laughing while I was typing n/t

[vivalarev]

34. Alright catch 22...

I have an english bulldog that i take everywhere with me...the problem is that he's still young and needs to be caged on long rides, which we do often. I also live in a very hilly section of philadelphia, and believe me, the 4x4 is very nice when it snows. I also hike and travel to the beaches and mountains on the east coast and go 4 running because i enjoy it. I also get 21 mpg. So please, oh please, blow me away with your alternatives, and if you cant, ill be looking forward to my coke.

[Catch22Dem]

54. Snow?

SUVs suck ass in the snow. Try to sell an SUV to my old Air Force buddies in Alaska. They'd laugh. Those guys all drive the 4WD Subaru wagons. We have a few DUers who live in extremely cold areas who have also said the same thing.

No Coke for you (in my best Soup Nazi voice)

[vivalarev]

67. I believe I am owed a coke...

if your snow argument is the only thing you got, then I personally invite you to ome for a ride with me this winter in manayunk. this last winter, i was stuck in some dangerous situations in the snow on steep hills. popping my truck into 4x4 got me out of it every time, so im sorry that i cant agree with you. if you dont like them, fine, but just dont assume that everyone who has one just buys it to be cool or b/c all their friends have one.

ps-you can bring your old air force buddies too if you wish

[Catch22Dem]

70. Have you driven the 4WD Subarus?

If not, then how do you know? How can you make a legitimate comparison?

[vivalarev]

79. I didnt make a comparison

all i said was mine worked for me in those conditions, and i was glad i had it. if suburus work well too, then good for suburu and good for those who own them, but ill take my 4 runner anyday

[Catch22Dem]

84. Then you misunderstood my original post

I said if your only reason was "because I want one" then don't bother. You attempted to make a justification for owning one, but we see it boils down to just one legitimate factor...you want one.

[midnight armadillo]

117. Our subaru rocks in winter

Ok, the tires on it are no good so packed snow was a little tricky - but that'll be solved this year. In all other conditions, ice, slush, etc. etc. it was like a mountain goat. We have a Legacy L wagon, no outback needed.

Subarus are popular in Alaska, from what I understand, due to the low center of gravity which makes them significantly safer and more surefooted in bad conditions compared with a tippy SUV.

Actually, our next car for my wife will be an AWD Toyota Sienna for kid hauling duty. We plan on owning it for a long time and will have 3-4 kids in it (have one now). I'd like to see Toyota do a hybrid Sienna which there are rumors of.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

60. You can't fit a dog cage in anything other than an SUV?

You need to tell that to my friends who own cars who schlep around large dogs in crates in the back seat.

[vivalarev]

65. if youd stick your dog in a tiny little crate

for an 8 hour trip, then you are abusing your dog. and i would love to see how your friends would fit a a steel cage in their hybrids.

[mopinko]

39. i can fit

a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood, or whatever, including my artwork. i can pull my popup trailer, and carry enough groceries for a camping trip. i can take my family of 7, plus a couple of pals and dogs.
it's my second car, it drives about 8,000 miles a year. it is 11 years old. driving a civic to work every day, buying a new one every 3 years, and flying on vacations would add up to a lot more pollution.

[Catch22Dem]

58. Ok

You're with jtb33. Damnit, gonna have to buy you two a Coke. See, this is what happens when people listen to me. They discover I'm full of shit. ;)

Why on Earth would you need to carry all of that at one time though?

[mopinko]

85. didn't say at one time

but when the blue bus is full, it is full. i mostly don't drive it except to haul stuff. it is a pain to drive.

[Catch22Dem]

89. Roger Doger.

No worries.

[Red State Rebel]

108. Make mine diet and caffeine free....

I am the director of a non profit youth performance organization. There are 18 members who rehearse 2 or 3 times a week and go to competitions both locally and states away.

My Suburban currently has in it: 1 gym floor cover (50X70 ft.)folded up - weighs 350 lbs.; 1 shelf stereo system stacked and duct taped to a luggage cart; 18 6 ft. flag poles, 7 stainless steel performance sabres, 10 wooden performance rifles, 1 large gear bag. On rehearal and performance days I usually have 4 or 5 students with me. Because we use rehearsal space at a local school, we have to take our floor with us - can't leave it in their gym.

As I drive down the road, the tinted windows might make people think I'm alone driving an empty SUV but they don't have a clue.... you should see the looks I get when I have to pick someone up at the airport and they ask to search it.

[Catch22Dem]

126. No sweat

Sounds like a legitimate reason. However, you'll be getting plain ol' fashioned AMERICAN Coca-Cola. None of that namby-pamby diet caffine free shit. (of course I jest ;) )

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

27. Hate Hummers..other than that..I only don't like them because I can't see

around them on the road

[Langis]

31. I don't like them at all

But I am thinking about getting an Element :shrug:

[fishnfla]

33. We own 3 of them

they are put to good use. one is used to carry elderly and disabled people to surgery.They also used for a household of 6 and hauling the boats.

i never understood the animosity towards SUV owners on DU.To me its just petty way to label and hate fellow americans whom you never met, same as limbaugh does.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

36. Let me just say this again

I think if a person has good reasons for owning one, then have at it!

But MOST SUV owners don't actually NEED them for practical purposes. Thus, they are buying these mammoth, expensive, gas-guzzling things just.....because???

Seriously, they are a total status symbol for most people who own them. And while I am not really into status symbols, I don't mind them as long as they don't harm others or our environment. I'm afraid SUVs fail on those counts. So I have to wonder where the appeal is for those who don't NEED them for practical purposes.

Could a van haul around people and pull boats?

[vivalarev]

41. what makes a van better than an SUV?

[fishnfla]

66. vans wont do the job

we are talking elderly people who just had surgery. they need easy access in and out, they need room for their wheelchairs. they need comfort, stabilty and safety (its I-4, after all).

the big boat trailer is tandem axel, you need traction, power for slippery ramps. The new SUV's come with killer tow packages, cant be beat. Most boat owners will tell you, towing is the most hazardous part of it.

the little boat goes in unimproved(dirt,mud) ramps, same thing.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

75. I don't get it

I would find it MUCH easier to get in and out of a minivan, with its height lower than an SUV and the sliding door being handy, than an SUV.

I can see with the boat and all, but minivans are very comfy and mucho easier to get into than an SUV. I feel like I have to use a stepladder to get into my friend's Suburban and I'm 5'7", 33 years old, and didn't just have surgery!

[fishnfla]

82. Well our patients rave over this service

and I'll take their feelings and comfort into consideration first, if you dont mind. Our driver is experienced at getting them in and out, there and back, safely, as he has been doing it for 8 years now, 3-5 patients at a time 2 days a week. He loves the Suburban, makes his job better.(he used to do it with a van,before that, a limo) I'll trust his judgement first too, much thanks.

Again, a minivan, on I-4? have you any idea how hard it rains just about every afternoon here now?

[Catch22Dem]

97. Oh come on!

They used to get a limo and now they rave about a Suburban? ;) I'm just messin' with ya.

[fishnfla]

105. ach! the limo was a nightmare!

due to the nature of their surgery, they cannot bend over. the limo was a hand-me-down from the clinic owner who died and a bad idea

[Catch22Dem]

125. Bummer

But based on some of your posts, you REALLY have me wondering what type of surgery we're talking about.

[LanternWaste]

94. Odd

Odd. When I drove transport for a Cancer Treatment Center and picked up patients from local hospitals and homes, the Ford F150 Van we used was roomier and mch more accesible for the patients (regardless of whether they were in wheelchairs, stretchers or simply ambulatory) than an SUV could ever be.

[Catch22Dem]

98. And you can install a chair-lift...

On those vans. Wouldn't that be better?

[LanternWaste]

101. As a matter of fact...

As a matter of fact, it did have a chair lift built into it, plus two stretcher lock mechanisms and a *very* comfortable bench seat for the ambulatories.

Even subtracting the stretcher factor out of the equation, I simply cannot imagine how an SUV would be as effective or efficient.

Now, I never picked up patients in an SUV, so maybe I'm missing something...

Edited for typos

[fishnfla]

107. Its 97 degrees here today

Ford AC sucks rocks. the suburban is much more comfortable and climate controlled. Our patients are all ambulatory and must be seated upright due to the nature of their operation

[LanternWaste]

110. Not trying to be agumentative...

Not trying to be agumentative, but the AC in the Ford F150 was fantastic. Bear in mind, this was in Fort Worth (north central Texas) and even during the high summer days, we never had a problem or an issue with it or the patients getting cooked from the outside heat.

Maybe the Ford you're referring to was a lemon...?

[fishnfla]

114. Different strokes for different folks

We're happy with the Suburban. It works best for our situation. I'm sorry if we use an SUV to care for our patients, and that offends everyone.

[LanternWaste]

115. Absolutely right...

I'm not offended at all by your companies choice. It simply seems to me to be the second best choice. ;)

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

130. Hey Lantern

off topic, but I'm in a burb of Dallas between Dallas and Ft. Worth. I love Ft. Worth.

Ok, just wanted to share. You still in Ft. Worth? We're having a DFW area DU get together soon in Arlington, feel like coming? It's gonna be at a restaurant.

[LanternWaste]

137. Thanks for inviting me!

You missed me by three months. I moved to Cancun three months ago due to the Texas job market.

Wow! Thanks for inviting me, though! Makes me feel... special :)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

38. If it's any consolation, I have nothing against vehicles operated

by people who know how to handle them...here in Cali though, everyone has one and the only thing worse than a bad driver is a bad driver in a vehicle that does not SEE the other cars on the road and does not use their mirrors...

So again...my only thing is that I can't see around them...and all bad drivers scare me but when they are in a vehicle that large...it's a bit worse.

[vivalarev]

78. MInivans?

if you guys are gonna start with thatminivan vs SUV shit than IM out....there is nothing worse on the road than minivans...fucking soccer moms speeding thru the burbs like mario andretti cause their late for their manicure.

if your gonna bash people for driving SUVs, you should include minivans in you rants as well

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

81. Way to generalize

you will notice I have never said a single thing about SUV DRIVERS on this thread, only SUVs themselves and the reasons people have for driving them.

Nice stereotypes you got there.

[vivalarev]

86. its not a stereotype

try riding around jersey and philly in the afternoon, thats all you'll see. way more minivans than SUVs. i admit, hummers and some of the other monstrous SUVs are unnecessary, but the fact is, a lot of people actually use their SUV for legitimate reasons. i go 4 running as much as i can, but not as much as i go to the grocery store, but thats what i got, and i will never regret it. if you hate them, then thats fine....i did too before i got mine, but now im a proud owner of toyota 4 runner and ill never go back to car. i would however consider a hybrid if they made the 4 runner into one.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

87. A FOUR RUNNER?

THAT'S what you are talking about?

Oh Geez.

I am talking about BIG SUVs, not a 4-Runner. A 4-Runner doesn't even qualify around these parts, LOL!

A 4-Runner!

[vivalarev]

100. good...

then i guess im in the clear with you guys if you dont consider a 4 runner an suv. i guess im done here then...thanks.

[Catch22Dem]

103. You're leaving?

Don't do that. If there's one thing we disagree on, then there's surely 100 things in which we are in agreement. Otherwise we wouldn't all be here.

Hope you stick around.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

92. Start a minivan thread...you're awfully hostile about this subject

and I made no reference to gender in my post....there are bad drivers in both genders

[Catch22Dem]

99. Because soccer moms

In H2s makes more sense? How about a soccer mom, alone in an H2, talking on a cell phone. Since we're going for the gusto and all.

[Hoping4Change]

123. Why the animosity you ask?

Represented below is the total tonnage of CO2 produced by SUVs and other vehicles over a 124,000-mile lifetime.

Ford Excursion 13 mpg - 134 tons of CO2
JeepGrand
Cherokee 18 mpg - 96 tons of CO2

Ford Taurus 23 mpg - 74 tons of CO2


HondaCivicHX 36 mpg - 48 tons of CO2


Honda Insight 65 mpg - 20 tons of CO2


http://www.sierraclub.org/globalwarming/suvreport/pollu...


SUV owners are destroying the earth's atmosphere and have no sense of stewardship about the environment. What do SUV owners need as a wake call? What do they need to know about the deteriorating environment to assume some sense of responsibility?

[northofdenali]

40. I'm going to take the chance and reply before reading

any other posts.

From 1998 until this year, we drove a 97 Saturn station wagon, and I loved it. It pretty much got us where we needed to go, at a very economical price, and when there were road conditions that had to be overcome we borrowed my father-in-law's Jeep Liberty.

When the Saturn finally started dying a slow death, it was killing us in the pocketbook. So we started looking. And we wound up with a 2004 Jeep Liberty, Renegade package. It gets good mileage, not great, but we drive very sensibly. We watch out for small cars and (especially) motorcycles, because we've been there, done that.

An SUV makes sense here for a number of reasons, and most DU'ers can certainly understand the weather/terrain/snow/ice problems those of us who live in the Far North experience.

That said, anyone who drives an SUV "to protect the children", to "haul the equipment around" or for other nonsensical reasons is suffering from nothing but ego and penis-envy. There is no logical reason for Hummers that I can fathom. We use our little Jeep as it was intended, and it never has that "off the showroom floor" shine any more! I have no argument with anyone who owns an SUV for reasons of need - just those who own them for reasons of greed.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

49. I don't even consider your Jeep Liberty to be an SUV

sorry, but I don't. It's a Jeep. It's not really overly large.

[northofdenali]

56. You're right, Moonbeam - we checked very carefully

on gas mileage, emissions standards, environmental impact and the like. The Liberty had a good overall rating, and is almost ideal for our climate and terrain challenges here. It's no longer than our Saturn wagon was, but is naturally taller and has a wider stance.

It's the best-selling SUV in the Fairbanks market, which says something in a military-affiliated town where it seems like all "bigger is better" matters.

[OnionPatch]

42. We have one!

Because we also need to pull a horse trailer. Plus, we bought it when we lived in the mountains where you have to have a 4x4 because of the snow. We try to drive it less and our smaller car more. Even though we own one, I have much distain for those who have them and don't need them.
The thing is that there are plenty of situations where people actually need an SUV. I firmly believe that the industry could supply us with vehicles to meet our needs that are NOT gas guzzlers. They simply won't because they don't have to. I blame the government and industry for failing to address the problem.
I would not be so quick to judge people on the vehicle they drive, though. We are about the most liberal and politically active people I know but if you saw us driving our SUV you probably wouldn't guess. That is until you see the anti-Bush stickers.
As soon as they come up with an affordable, low-gas-mileage vehicle that can pull a horse trailer, we'll be first in line.

[TEXASYANKEE]

45. I like mine.

I bought an SUV 3 years ago for purely hedonistic personal reasons. My first 3 cars were environmentally friendly and my next car will be, but for now I'm driving this particular vehicle. If people want to hate me for that, then so be it.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

51. Thank the Lord

at least you are honest about it.

The people I know who own SUVs always sputter around trying to find a good practical reason to own that Escalade or Navigator or Suburban but they never come up with anything more than extreme defensiveness.

I know a woman in her 60s who owns a Lincoln Navigator who admits she bought it because she wanted to drive something REALLY big because she is really small and it makes her feel powerful. She has no kids at home, her grandkids live far away, and that thing NEVER goes off-road. It is luxury all the way. But at least she's honest about why she owns it and doesn't try to make up all kinds of bullshit about how much room she needs for her groceries or something.

[TEXASYANKEE]

64. That's me ... Ms. Honesty

That's why I'm a Democrat! :-)

[olddem43]

46. Is the often used term - "Gas Sucking SUV" redundant?

[Catch22Dem]

95. HAHAHAHAHA

Nice. :evilgrin:

[HawkerHurricane]

47. Vehicles are built with a purpose.

If you don't use them for that purpose, why do you own it?

SUV's are designed to take a medium sized group of people (or gear) into 4 wheel drive conditions. If you don't need 4 wheel drive, get a van. If you don't need to carry a group, get a Jeep.

I own a minivan. But then, I've got myself, my wife, 3 kids, one foster kid, and occassionally others... It's great for the whole family. I hate to have to commute in it, though, it's too much for one person.

[F.Gordon]

48. Most UNSAFE vehicle on the road

I understand the need for SUV's in rural areas, or mountain areas. But in the city? No fucking way.

Last year I T-Boned a lady in her SUV when she ran a stop sign. Our car was totalled and there was hardly a scratch on the SUV. Pretty good for her, right? NO.

We were fine because the car did what it was supposed to do....absorb the impact. An SUV can't. She went to the hospital. When the "energy" of a crash has no where to go....it releases into the body of the driver and/or passengers.

Not to mention, they will flip over at almost any speed.

[vivalarev]

52. First of all...

they will only flip over if you drive like an asshole. and would you please, master of physics explain to me how the energy from an accident in an SUV transfers to the body of the driver? thats the most asinine thing i ever heard.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

55. Living here in Dallas

I've seen more than my share of cars creamed by SUVs and the SUV driver, surprisingly, hurt almost as much as the driver of the creamed car!

That really surprised me the first time I saw it and saw the lady driving the SUV taken away in an ambulance. Her SUV seemed to be fine!!!

[vivalarev]

62. I need more than just heresay....

if the energy from an SUV crash transfers directly to the body of the driver, I would like to see scientific proof of this, not just heresay that the old lady was carried away after the accident. We here at DU like to pride ourselves on truth and facts, and Im afraid that I am going to need some if Im expected to believe this transfer of energy hypothesis

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

71. Hey I posted mine the same time you posted yours

and I was just responding to his post.

I'm sure you can find plenty of information on the internet:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/ptech/02/26/hearing.suv.reut/

http://www.productliabilitylawyer.com/SUVrollover.cfm

http://www.suv.org/newsarticle.html

http://www.suv.org/economic.html

http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosconsumer/0404/07/f03-114964.htm

http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=114&did=769

http://www.babyzone.com/features/content/display.asp?TopicID=18&ContentID=1383

http://www.suvrollovernews.com/

http://www.vehicle-injuries.com/

SUV Rollover Accidents: Fatalities Continue to Increase
Almost 40% of all registered vehicles in the U.S. are light trucks and SUVs. The popularity of sport utility vehicles in particular poses new challenges to both other drivers on the road and the drivers and occupants of SUVs.
From years of television and magazine advertising showing SUVs crossing rugged backgrounds, many consumers believe that SUVs are more durable and safer than cars. SUVs and pickups, however, on average provide less protection for their drivers than most large or even mid-sized cars.
Unlike cars, which tend to slide sideways when they go out of control, SUVs and pickups are more likely to flip over. This is significant because while rollover accidents occur less frequently than other types of crashes, when rollovers do occur they often result in fatalities or serious injuries. In 2003, 4,451 fatalities of the 43,220 people that died in the U.S. in traffic accidents were drivers or passengers of SUVs.

[Catch22Dem]

80. Excellent...thanks for the info. n/t

[Catch22Dem]

73. Awful defensive

Do you own an SUV dealership? :evilgrin:

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

76. This happens anytime the subject comes up, seriously

I got into this debate on another website and WHOOOOO, it was ON like Donkey Kong!!!! The people who owned SUVs got VERY defensive (made this thread look really tame, seriously, it was a pile-up). That's when I found out how defensive they can be about it.

BTW, just for the record, I don't make assumptions about people who own them. I just wonder why when most people who own them have no practical reason for them.

Notice only one person on this entire thread claims to own one just because she wanted one and not for practical purposes. Those who truly do have good solid practical reasons for owning them, I've already said I'm not talking about them, but the defensiveness is pervasive.

Yet another reason for me never to own one......

[Catch22Dem]

88. You're right

There are some people here who obviously have practical reasons for owning one. In their cases, no vehicle makes better sense than an SUV. However, I'd say they make up less than 3% of SUV owners.

Yes, the person who said they owned one because they wanted to, was completely honest.

[midnight armadillo]

119. It's due to the stiff ladder frame

SUVs are built on a stiff ladder-shaped chassis that's ideal for towing and hauling heavy loads - Pickups are built the same way.

The problem is that a stiff structure doesn't absorb energy well, so the frame tends to transmit impacts to the occupants. Cars (and minivans these days) are built in a 'monococque' fashion where the whole body and chassis are a single unit. This can be built stiff for good driving characteristics but still incorporate effective crush zones. It's tough to do that on an SUV...

So, when the lady was hit, she probably suffered internal injuries from the impact that a car would have absorbed safely. Safely for the car, that is.

A crush zone example - a head on between a Volvo (in back) and a Saab (in front). Note the intactness of the Saab's passenger compartment:

The car is f*cked, but no one was hurt in this accident.

[F.Gordon]

124. Did I say "old lady"?

She was about 20 years younger than myself.

Do you want to engage in a little experiment? I'll take my new car (the other one was sorta totalled) and you can take your pick of ANY SUV on the market. We'll both hit a concrete wall at 80 miles an hour....let's see who walks away from it. How bout' it?

Scientific Proof? I'm not a scientist, but I do have a little background in racing. When I knew I couldn't avoid hitting the "old lady" I took my hands off the steering wheel. You can literally break your arms in a crash just by holding the steering wheel because the physical energy of an impact DOES traverse into the body.

I don't have time to google..but look into the reason drunk drivers survive so many crashes and others don't. It's because they are "limp". Most people tense up...extend their legs and arms...and they become part of the vehicle when they do this...absorbing the impact.

The problem with a SUV is that it has no "break-aways". There is nothing to diffuse the energy. They use a one-piece truck chassis that doesn't allow the drive train to break away..helping to absorb the physical energy of the crash.

As for SUV's flipping so easy...I also understand weight transfer...drag....lift...all that bullshit stuff. You see, a SUV sits too fucking high. If you make a hard radical turn with a SUV the physical weight of the vehicle is transferred UP....making it temporarily top heavy....hence the whole flipping over thing.

You don't have to be an asshole to flip a SUV....but it helps...
:evilgrin:

[worksux]

132. Bravo

[Taverner]

72. Theyre dangerous

but as long as everyone's driving them, I'm glad they'll be available in the hybrid flavor...

[sundog]

74. Hate em, hate em, hate em...

that's all...

[delete_bush]

77. I don't care for them but I understand

and accept that for some they are a reasonable choice. And the genie is too far out of the bottle now and as such the SUV is a part of our culture.

What I'm offended by, besides the huge Navigator/Hummer types which are another issue, is that they are classified as trucks to escape the CAFE standards.

At least Kerry is on the right side of this issue, with his proposal along with McCain to increase the standards. The senate, however, revised the bill and we are no better off today than a decade ago.

If as the RW'ers are ever reminding us we are at war, and the last time America was on the right track was circa WWII, then why are We The People not willing to make a small sacrifice (as was done in WWII, including the rationing of gas) and ratchet up the CAFE standards?

Wouldn't this be the patriotic thing to do?

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

83. I totally agree.

[Xithras]

93. Just recently got rid of mine.

I had a Durango, with good reason. I own a vacation home in the Sierra's served by a long communal driveway that only gets cleared by the residents. Quite often the only way I could reach the home in winter was in 4WD.

We solved that last winter when my neighbors and I pitched in to buy an old D4 Caterpillar bulldozer (we no longer have to pay to have the road regraded every spring either). With that taken care of, we traded the Durango in on a minivan with a gas sipping 4 banger. 26MPG may not be the greatest, but it's double what we used to get AND we have more room inside.

[NMDemDist2]

102. i'm an owner.

I had a big Dodge first and traded it for a V-6 for better gas mileage (20MPG empty).

I have no kids, but today I hauled in two trips, 40 cases of water, 18 cases of soda, 11 cases of assorted chips and ketchup and mustard......


you get the idea.


I'd love a small pickup or a sedan (I really miss my car), but need the climate control in Phoenix and the weight hauling capacity.

The one thing i will say I like is the height above traffic, but other than that and hauling, i'd trade it in in a heartbeat.

I do have a Kerry sticker on it though....

[Catch22Dem]

104. Kerry sticker

Cool touch! ;) Me likey.

[LanternWaste]

106. My fifty centavos...

I think they are nothing more than status symbols for the vast majority of people who own them. But I can say that about "little red sports cars" too.

One of the oddest things about Americans is the social emphasis placed on what is really nothing more than transport. I'm the first to say that when I was in High School, I wanted nothing more than to own a Mustang or Trans-Am, but looking back I realize that I was just buying into one more in a long litany of marketing gimmicks.

I've lived in Cancun, Mexico for almost three months now and the most incredible thing I've found is that I can get anywhere in the city (Hotel Zone excepted... but who wants to hang out with tourists, anyway? :) )in a taxi for the US equivalent of $2.00. And if I'm being extra frugal, I can get anywhere in the city (including hotel zone) on the bus for 50 cents.

It's really made me rethink my attitude about the perceived *necessity* of having more than one car in a small family.

[NMDemDist2]

109. ROFL my other car is a C-5 corvette

that i now have to learn to drive, as it looks like hubby is going to have to take over the business :scared:

but it does get 30 MPG :)

[LanternWaste]

111. No offences given or taken, right?

Crap. Well, we talk and learn about others on this board and that's a good thing, right?

Please don't think my opinions about Americans in general trickles down to specific Americans. Friends of mine here in Cancun have SUV's for no other reason than because "they're cool" and it doesn't change my opinion of them at all.

In the same vein, if we knew each other or were neighbors, I seriously doubt your cars would impact our friendship. And since you have the Kerry bumper sticker I'd probably have you and your hubby over for dinner. :)

I've just been getting adifferent look at American culture since I've moved here and sometimes it ain't pretty...lol.

[NMDemDist2]

113. of course not.... we are a wide and diverse group and

i wouldn't have it any other way :D

[ForrestGump]

112. As a motorcyclist,

cars have always been my natural enemy. I'm not sure that SUVs are innately more of a danger to me by virtue of their bulk -- at least when I'm on a motorcycle, because on a bike if you're hit you're pretty much hit, even by a small car -- but I do think they're more a danger thanks to the attitudes of their drivers. That also applies when I'm in a car. BAd drivers abound, but SUVs seem to bring out the worst. And very often the hyper-testosterone aggression of the driver belies the fact that it's a woman -- SUVs are very equal-opportunity in how they trasform their drivers into road hogs. Or perhaps the drivers transform the behemoth...I don;t know.

Regardless, I agree with all the other anti_SUV points made her, the biggie being that MOST people buy them either as a status symbol or to (falsely) feel safe (or, laternately, superior). Their advantage as a carrier of stuff is also debatable -- most carry no more than, or even less than, a Toyota Camry or the like. Further, the load's ofte visible in the back, compared with safely tucked away in the trunk, making the browsing thief's job that much easier.

Some people do and always have had legitimate use for SUV-type vehicles. In my considerable experience in the boonies of several countries, if you really want a useful 4WD utility vehicle you're probably going to want a Land Rover (an old one -- the newer ones got trendy, certainly in the US, and are overpriced pieces of junk) or a Toyota LKandcruiser (the utilitarian traditional kind, that's still sold overseas but that I haven't seen Statesidde in a long time.

[toddaa]

118. It's my wife's car. Seriously!

I rarely drive it. Normally, I hate the SOBs (err SUVs), but we live in the midwest and frankly I feel a lot better knowing my wife is driving a AWD to work in bad weather conditions. On the other hand, I do find it humorous counting all the SUVs in the ditches after a major snow storm. A six figure salary is no substitute for knowing that 4 wheel drive does absolutely nothing for bring you to a complete stop on ice.

I'm slowly bringing my wife around to letting me get a hybrid.

[NMDemDist2]

121. welcome to DU taddaa

:hi:

[Seeking Serenity]

122. I love it . . .

and when I say, "I love it," I mean I hate it, when so-called progressives start spouting things about how so-and-so "doesn't need" something, and thus he shouldn't have it. "No one needs an SUV." No one needs lots of things, but they make our lives a little less dreadful.

That kind of talk only plays into the Freepers' worst stereotypes about liberals, that we somehow want to control everyone else's lives and tell them what they should and shouldn't have based on what we think they need.

Freepers think that way. We're the people who believe in freedom (as long as it doesn't directly endanger someone else), remember? Even the freedom to make bad personal choices.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

131. Including the freedom to make

bad personal choices that effect the environment?

Let's make it real personal for a second here: I live in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, where we have horrible air pollution. (I recently got back from a driving trip of several western states and was AMAZED that the sky could even BE that blue and the air that clear!!!) How much sense does it make for most of us to be driving vehicles that guzzle gas and put more carbon monoxide in the air than cars?????

So yeah, that's a choice that DOES effect me and mine. I have a daughter with asthma so bad we literally have days in the summer (red and purple ozone days) when we can't leave the house all day long.

[Hoping4Change]

134. Butthey do hurt everyone by spewing tons of CO2 into the

atmosphere.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

127. SUV's are the OFFICIAL VEHICLE OF AMERICA HATERS!

[T Bone]

129. Where I grew up

only hicks drove trucks...

[taxidriver]

136. wow, people sure are narrowminded where you live.

[floridaguy]

133. They're part of the problem!

I much prefer mass-transit or a bicycle.

[NashVegas]

138. SUVs = Capitalism Runamok

When I was in HS, the only people who drove SUVs were those who used them for spring mud racing and such, and musicians who had to haul their PA stuff around. The vehicles of choice were Broncos and Wagoneers.

In the early & mid 1980s, people who needed vehicles for hauling used trucks and vans.

Enter the bohemian bourgeois. In 1984, they drove Saabs. In 1988 they drove Volvos. Around 1992 or so they discovered Jeeps & Range Rovers and a craze was born.

I don't hate SUVs. I hate trying to drive one (rented) on interstates under reconstruction and the lanes are narrowed, and I'm trying to pass someone else in an SUV or being passed by one and there's 7 inches of space between the two vehicles going 50+ mph.

I hate that they obstruct my view of the road ahead. I hate that they obstruct my side view of oncoming traffic when I try to make a turn or pull out of a parking lot.

I hate that they force us all to pack into parking lots like sardines in a can, or force business owners to repaint their lots with more generous space, leaving less room for all patrons.

I hate that they have forced so many people to justify their utter lack of common sense, on such a massive scale.