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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 11:52 AM
Original message
Bands that have "Jumped the Shark"
As you might know, "Jump the Shark" refers to the point in the lifetime of a TV show when a good TV show starts going downhill. This term came from the episode of 'Happy Days' when Fonzie jumped the shark tank. After that the show 'Happy Days' went downhill.

Personally, I think musicans/bands also can 'Jump the Shark' - have that one album that you totally couldn't stand and then everything after that was pretty much bunk.

My best example would be Queen. I absolutely adore the band Queen, but after their album "The Game" (First one where they started using Synthesizers) I thought their music went pretty much downhill from there. It wasn't the innovated music like what they had on "Night at the Opera", "Day at the Races" and "News to the World"

Also, I pretty much hate everything the Rolling Stones have done after "Some Girls". Why are they still making music.

So what are some of your favorite musicians/groups that you feel have 'Jumped the Shark'
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. R.E.M. - best possible example
:(
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Magrittes Pipe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. But what is their "moment?"
Edited on Thu Jul-15-04 11:59 AM by whoisalhedges
To jump the shark, one needs a definable instance at which there was no going back.

Was it with Document, when "The One I Love" garnered them their first mainstream airplay? Or was it even before that -- the horns on "Can't Get There from Here" (my favorite R.E.M. song, BTW), for example?

Was it later? "Shiny Happy People?" Monster?

I honestly don't know -- I like early R.E.M. and I don't like later R.E.M. The last album of theirs I own is Document, but Automatic for the People was pretty damn good. What is the point of their degeneration?
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Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Monster.
A good album, but not by REM standards.
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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. Yeah, good call....
Although I lost track after Green.
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Kid_A Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. R.E.M. is my favorite band ever
and "Document" is, I think, their weakest album.

They have never "jumped the shark" (if that's even possible for a band), nor will they ever.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
43. Stand - I knew it boded ill and I was right
the rest of Green was good but that was it - finito!
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. Took the words right out of my mouth.
I love REM, but they're past it.

Also:
the correctly-maligned Hootie & the Blowfish.
Aerosmith
Van Halen
Creed (truthfully, they were eaten by the shark)
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neverborn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #10
122. Creed was never good.
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tigerbeat Donating Member (475 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
65. give "Reveal" a listen.
i thought Green and Out of Time were "jump the shark" moments, but they bounced back with Automatic for the People then "jumped the shark" with Monster and New Adventures in Hi-Fi. didn't bother picking up Up, but got Reveal for free. and i surprisingly like it quite a bit. a tonal and structural breakthrough i think and deserves a listen.
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Magrittes Pipe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
2. Metallica -- "And Justice for All"
The first three Metallica albums are fucking amazing. "And Justice," however, is only about half good.

Everything since has sucked monkey ass.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
40. They're best when they do covers - Garage Days
The Wait rocks
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Magrittes Pipe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #40
49. Not the "Garage, Inc." reissue, though.
Edited on Thu Jul-15-04 12:22 PM by whoisalhedges
With the disc of new material? :puke:

They BUTCHERED Nick Cave, and Glenn Danzig sang "Die Die My Darling" way better than Hetfield could ever dream of.

I think their peak was Master of Puppets -- if there is a better metal song than "Battery" from the past 20 years, I haven't heard it.
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Donkeyboy75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
76. I liked "Justice," but "Kill 'Em All" is still my favorite of theirs...
lots of raw energy. Love the "Blitzkrieg" cover...
That piece of filth they put out after "Justice" was completely terrible. I haven't heard anything of theirs since then, except snippets I've been unfortunate enough to hear on the radio. They suck ass now.
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7th_Sephiroth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
3. metallica
die allready you stupid asshats
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southpaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
4. Jewell...
Don't know the name of the album, even... but you know what I'm talking about. The sudden transition from heart-felt flokie to slutty dance vixen...

Some say it was all a joke, like U2's pop-mart era... The jury's still out.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I happend to like "Intuition"
It's the rest of her surupy, faux-folkie dreck I can't stand.
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LSdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
51. Exactly
I pretty much hated everything she did before her latest album, although I can certainly understand her long-time fans being insanely pissed-off.
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
5. easy - STYX
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Mr. Roboto and Babe
complete drek.
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kmla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
106. IMHO - They were never even behind the boat, or in the water -
let alone be able to Jump The Shark.

One of the crappiest corporate bands to be foisted upon the masses.

Yecccch.
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bhunt70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
7. I have a theory that most bands only have a certain amount of good stuff
in them, therefore, most bands jump the shark at some point. They usually don't realize it, not do their fans.

My laws of music.
1. shorter albums - leave out the filler (charge less of course)
2. get it all out, then quit.
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Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Three Album Rule
Most artists (excepting the truly great) only have three good albums in them.
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midnight armadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Jazz bands do this
In jazz there's often a quarter or something that'll form, put out a good album or three, then break up and they go do something else. Even long-running ensembles, like say the Pat Metheny Trio, have their members go and do other things in between albums and tours.

Not in rock & pop - the rule seems to be you usually get one shot at the big time, so you stick with your band until no one listens anymore.
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bif Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
85. Except for groups like the Coltrane Quartet and MJQ
But I agree. Groups like the Jazz Messengers and Miles Davis's groups had constantly changing personell which changed the dynamics of the groups.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
36. That was the best thing about John Bonham's death
"In Through the Out Door" was still a good album but not great when compared to things like LZII or Physcial Grafitti. One would wonder how many more albums they would have made and if they had peaked and were starting to go downhill.
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Westegg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #36
74. Nothing good about Bonzo's death, but I take your point...
...Fact is, Zeppelin themselves realized that "In Through the Out Door" was a transitional album as they moved (fairly uneasily) into their late-thirties and contended with both their own lumbering mega-rock-star baggage and the emerging energy of punk rock. Page and Bonham in particular were not thrilled with the final results of "ITTOD". Had the band (and Bonham) survived, their next album would, in my opinion, have been a "return to the roots" kind of thing. At the same time, Page had a major issue with drugs then, as did Bonham, and the tensions within the band were at an all-time high. To use a Robert Plantian-word, the "vibes" were quite bad.

Interesting to speculate on what might have been...
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midnight armadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
12. Red Hot Chilli Peppers
Blood Sugar Sex Magick was their last attempt at a good album - not at all as good as, say, the Uplift Mofo Party Plan, but decent nonetheless.

Everything after that has been genuinely awful, and unfunky!
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Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. I'd say Mothers Milk
Blood Sugar Sex Magik is unfocused and overblown.
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
13. Chicago - when Terry Kath shot himself in the head.
Edited on Thu Jul-15-04 12:00 PM by Richardo
Took all of the soul and political anger out of that band, only to be replaced by Peter Cetera's non-stop sappy treacle. x(
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Beware the Beast Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
15. Black Sabbath- After Ronnie James Dio Left
Most folks would say that they Jumped when Ozzy left, but Dio actually reenergized them, yielding two great albums (Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules). After that, Sabbath became Tony Iommi and a revolving cast of musicians.
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Nevernose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
54. Like the album they (Iommi) did with Brian May?
I like Sabbath, and I like Queen, but I never thought to mix the two.
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Magrittes Pipe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
17. The Rolling Stones lost it...
...after Mick Taylor left.
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Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. After Exile.
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Magrittes Pipe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Nah, I still like (sorta) "It's only Rock 'n' Roll."
They had a few good singles left in them -- "Miss You," for instance. But the only Ron Wood-era album that even comes CLOSE to being listenable is Some Girls -- and even that pales next to the stuff they made with Taylor and Jones.

Speaking of Taylor and Jones, my favorite Stones album is Let It Bleed, which features both of them -- probably not coincidentally.
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Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. I think consistency was lost after Exile.
Then it was a few good singles, Some Girls, Tattoo You and the long, long goodbye.
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #28
38. I agree
They did a few good things after Exile. I do like the "Stripped" album, but it was remakes. It's only Rock and Roll was a good album. Some girls was their last "classic", but not as strong as Exile.
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RT Atlanta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #17
117. agreed on Taylor's departure
Never the same after that! Damn that was a great run of albums with him, wasn't it? :)
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Archae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
20. Steve Miller Band.
Before they even began performing. :puke:
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kmla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #20
108. "Abra-abra-cadabra....
I wanna reach out and grab ya..."

Worst song ever recorded.
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kmla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #108
109. Charlene - It just was never the same after "I've Never Been to Me"....
*sighs wistfully*

:cry:
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Archae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #108
116. Even worse SMB song
"Rockin' Me Baby."
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southpaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
21. Pearl Jam
Ten was great!
Vs. was OK, but hinted at shit to come...
From then on... well whatever.
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Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
23. Of course, some people have jumped the shark and gotten back
Neil Young.
Jumped the shark in 1979 after Rust Never Sleeps
Jumped back in 1988 after This Note's For You
Jumped shark again in 1995 with Mirrorball.
Jumped back again in 2004 with Greendale.
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Fenris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. He doesn't jump the shark, he RIDES the shark.
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Magrittes Pipe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. He doesn't ride the shark, he IS the shark!
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Westegg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #29
82. He's a baby's arm holding an apple. (n/t)
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Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. He may well actually be the shark.
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Fenris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. You just blew my mind!
Cosmic!
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Magrittes Pipe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. And David Crosby is the walrus.
Goo goo goo joob.
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Fenris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. My god...he IS!
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Westegg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #23
81. Neil's a great example of a brilliant guy who jumps around....
...like he's got St. Vitus' Dance. (Dylan's another.) Oh well. You know how these "quirky" artists are...But I forgive Neil all his "shark episodes" because at the end of the day, he's given us (and, more importantly, ME) so much great music.

Screaming Lord Byron, you are sutch a first-rate mind. Really. I mean it. You're the smile on the Mona Lisa. You're a tower of pizzas.
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Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #81
88. Aw, shucks.
:headbang:
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Westegg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #88
90. Oh, you love it. Don't bullshit a bullshitter. (n/t)
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Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
26. Bowie - Passed the shark in 1984, swam back in 2002.
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Magrittes Pipe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. Yes, "Heathen" was an outstanding record.
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #26
42. Bowie's stuff with "Tin Machine" was the final leap.
Or maybe it was his duet with Jagger. I love the guy, but he's no longer relevant.

Tin Machine included Soupy Sales two sons and some dude who played a Steinberger guitar. Come on.....A Steinberger?!?! Bleh

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southpaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. Hey... the Steinberger trans-trem was revolutionary guitar technology.
The only tremolo that could keep the string tension uniform between all 6 strings during a dive, thereby allowing you to bend a chord and keep it in tune with itself through the bend.

David Gilmour put it to good use for a time.
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Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #42
53. Don't see those things much anymore.
Thank God.
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Quahog Donating Member (704 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #42
125. "Some dude" is Reeves Gabrels
Ask any guitarist who knows him, and I guarantee that you will hear nothing but praise for his musicianship. Regardless of whether you care for Tin Machine's music, Reeves Gabrels is one of the all-time monsters of electric guitar, like Jeff Beck meets Adrian Belew, but with his own insane vision that apes neither of them and is utterly unique.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #125
127. Double Plus Good!
That guy is, indeed, a MONSTER!
The Professor
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southpaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
31. Journey...
Raised on Radio...

Perry fired Ross Vallory and Steve Smith, made the band a trio (with a hired-gun rhythm section) and killed a band that was truly sappy, yet consistent and successful within their genre.

Some would say Journey jumped it with 'Infinity', the first album to feature Steve Perry.
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Commendatori Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
34. Springsteen, with "Born in the USA," Aerosmith
I was never a fan, but that album struck me as commercial garbage comapred with his earlier work.

Go ahead and flame me, but a singer's having proper political views isn't going to make me like him.

Also, Aerosmith's work after 1989 has been revolting; it breaks my heart to listen to them and remember that they were so good in the 70's and 80's.
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. I posted a few weeks back questioning why Bruce is loved so much
Wasn't a good thing to do in here.
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Archae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. I agree.
Springsteen is an overhyped asshole.

Every so often, (I think it's happened three times now,) he gets sued after screwing his roadies.

Besides, Springsteen only has two modes of singing:
Mumble yum yumble and the sound a water buffalo makes after being kicked in the balls.
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Commendatori Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #39
48. I feel your pain.
When I post anti-Bruce, the nicest post I get usually get is "Blasphemy!" Most of them are worse.

I've read articles on his political views and agree with a lot of them, but he sings like a rabid wolf - and I scoff at the "great songwriter" tag he's always given.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #48
78. Same old anti-Bruce cliches.
And, geez, you all sound like the poor town square preachers who go out knowing that they'll get grief, and with good reason, so they can go home and feel like the good, persecuted Christians they so want to be.
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Commendatori Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #78
89. Sorry, I was attempting to sound like
someone who truly believes that Bruce's music is overrated tripe. Sorry my atheism bled over and made me sound like a Christian.

BTW, is there a Springsteen book or website that will correct the error of my ways and make me appreciate him like all of The Boss's clones are required to?
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #89
92. Now...
you sound like a Freeper talking about one of "us."

Keep trying.

:)
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Commendatori Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #92
93. Actually, I thought the same thing about Springsteen fans
talking about people who think like I and a couple others in this thread do. I'm pro-gun and have been treated like a Freeper for that, but on a political board I at least understand that. Why people get treated like such lepers for not liking a musician that I consider to be completely overrated is beyond me.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #93
97. Goes both ways, of course.
When you choose to use overboard rhetoric rather than a genuine critique, you're going to get a reaction in kind. It's only natural. It's quite possible, that, if you put your posts here regarding Springsteen in the mirror, you might see something similar to the reactive posts that have you so up in arms.
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Commendatori Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #97
100. I'm not up in arms, I'm just surprised.
Further, my feelings on garbage like "Born in the USA" are so strong in their negativity that what you refer to as "overboard rhetoric" is actually a politely-worded way of saying what I really feel. I really, really can't stand his music.

I would, however, be interested to know exactly how I'm supposed to phrase "genuine critique." To read some of the pro-Bruce posts here, the only "genuine critique" of him would be an essay of unconditional love.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #100
118. Ya, sure, you betcha.
Thanks for the clarification of just how overboard you really are on the matter. And you're a fan of BOC? Now that's funny.

You really ought to be more kind, if that's the case.

I think you know the answers to your questions, by the way. You got caught trying to point the finger, when the finger should have been pointed the other way.

Funny how that happens when one can't see the reality before one's own eyes, huh?

:)
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Commendatori Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #118
128. More kind?
Edited on Fri Jul-16-04 09:38 AM by BlueOysterDemocrat
Sure, I can see that. I like BOC, so I owe Springsteen raving reviews, and if I fail to give one I should take your whining with a smile. That makes sense.

As for me knowing the answers to my questions, I really only asked one ("BTW, is there a Springsteen book or website that will correct the error of my ways and make me appreciate him like all of The Boss's clones are required to?"), which was clearly facetious, and then said I'd like to know what your idea of "honest critique" is. If you're counting that as a question, then no - I don't know the answer to that (and if not, why use the plural?)/

After all, you say I "got caught pointing the finger." What, not liking Springsteen is actually AGAINST THE RULES, or is "got caught pointing the finger" simply what you use every time someone fails to display the same taste you have? I can't even begin to understand your mindset here, so how the hell would I know what you consider "honest critique?"

I'm simply not on Bruce's bandwagon, and when you can't handle that, you tell me that I can't see "the reality" before my eyes? What, Bruce's "excellence" can actually be quantified now?

I've read plenty of posts I don't agree with, but yours are the first on this board that I don't even UNDERSTAND. Are you by any chance crediting someone else's anti-Bruce posts with mine? And if not, exactly how would I know what you define as "honest critique," when your "pointing the finger" and "see the reality" are complete non-sequitirs? Do you actually deny me the right not to like Springsteen?

Give me an example of "honest critique" of a band you don't lie, please, and spare me the cryptic cliches.

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rppper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #34
67. i hate saying this, but Aerosmith needs to get hooked on drugs again...
honestly...they are just going thru the motions now, and it's not even a good motion. the band that did "toys in the attic" and "rocks" is dead...they are nothing more than animotronic figures now...like a twisted, acid dipped bizzaro-world stage show at a chuck-e-cheese.....

"done with mirrors" was the last decent album they did, imho. i even prefer some of the perry-less albums to their more modern fluff....

they're not awfull, i think a a couple of the new songs are gems, but it's just not all that good....to many dodge commercials... they need to stop.......
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Commendatori Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #67
102. They only did one without Perry, but it kicked ass
"Rock in a Hard Place." They toured without Perry for "Night in the Ruts," but he was on the album.
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rppper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 04:51 AM
Response to Reply #102
120. jimmy crespo recorded about half the songs....
on "night in the ruts". although he wrote most of the songs, perry left before the album was finished. and rick dufay was brad whitfords replacement on "rock in a hard place" along with crespo...the biggest loss with perry was that he and tyler wrote 99% of their songs. crespo could'nt fill his shoes in that aspect, although he was more than a capable replacement on guitar. "lightning strikes" from "rock and a hard place" is still one of my favorite aerosmith songs
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Kid_A Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
35. The Smashing Pumpkins
They did their shark jumping with "Machina/The Machines of God".

That album suuuuuucked. Thankfully it was their last one, and their once-loyal fans could bury a once-great rock band.
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Westegg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
45. Hate to get all "classic rock" on yer ass, but...
The Who jumped after "By Numbers." Zeppelin jumped after "Presence" (some would say after "Physical Grafitti" but I disagree). Pink Floyd jumped after "Wish You Were Here" (though I still occasionally enjoy "Animals). Allman Bros. jumped after "Eat a Peach." Stones jumped after "Exile," then came back with "Some Girls" as a one-off redemption, after which they were literally eaten by the shark (Keith, amazingly, survived). Aerosmith jumped after "Rocks." Queen jumped after "Day at the Races." Beach Boys jumped after the aborted "Smile." Jackson Browne jumped after "Running On Empty," Eagles jumped after "Hotel California," Jimmy Buffett jumped after "A1A" (30 years ago!), The Cars jumped after "Candy-O", Dylan jumped after "Desire," The Airplane jumped after "Volunteers," Tull jumped after "Living In the Past," Joni Mitchell jumped after "Court and Spark," Roxy Music jumped after "Siren," though "Avalon" is groovy in a mellow way. Talking Heads jumped after "Stop Making Sense."

Now I'm tired. I must rest.
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Magrittes Pipe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. "After Bathing at Baxter's" kicks "Volunteers" ass all over the place.
And how could the Eagles jump the shark after the single worst album ever made? ;)
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Westegg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #50
66. Absolutely, "Baxter's" kicks "Volunteer's" ass. My point was that...
...after "Volunteers," the Airplane jumped, as in, their best days were over and gone.

I'll only add that, for me, "Hotel California" has sentimental relevance going back to my life at age 13. Much like my pet hamster Ralph (now decased), I can't expect everyone to dig it, but me? I love it to death.

Nice to come across someone who even knows about "Baxter's" (which I was actually listening to last night). Jefferson Airplane Loves You!
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Magrittes Pipe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #66
71. Nah, I just got the order mixed up.
I was thinking Baxter's came out after Volunteers. I done checked my dates, and you were right, I was wrong. Volunteers was the last good Jefferson-anything album.

I'll grant you nostalgia. I've got some records I love for sentimental reasons that many people despise. I'll even (begrudgingly) allow you your Eagles nostalgia. ;)
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Westegg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #71
84. Thanks. Joe Walsh is buying you a drink right now...
...and OOPS! You're not there, so now he's drinking it. Joe owes you a bourbon straight up.
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Magrittes Pipe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #84
87. Joe owes me about a dozen bourbons by now.
I love all three James Gang albums.
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RobinA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #50
130. Agree
Hotel was the leap, not whatever came later.
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Donkeyboy75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #45
77. No way. "Animals" is a great album.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #45
91. I'd say you're right, with the exception of
Dylan. But I'm a huge Dylan fan (I even like Self Portrait).

The new music certainly wasn't great or even consistently good for a long time after Desire, but most of those albums still have one or two gems (like Senor on Street Legal). But I thought he acquitted himself nicely beginning in the early 90s, with the two acoustic folk albums and with Time Out of Mind, which was mostly stellar. Love and Theft has it's moments too. :)
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Mr.Green93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #45
110. Good ones
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chaska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
47. When Kiss cut there hair, altered their costumes and went disco.
And again when the removed the makeup.
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phillybri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #47
70. KISS: Songs From The Elder...
"A World Without Heroes", anyone???
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mrboba1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
52. Aerosmith when...
they got off the drugs.
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Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
55. Rod Stewart. At Birth.
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Donating Member ( posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. oh he was ok in the Jeff Beck group
give him that at least
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Magrittes Pipe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. You profane the sacred name of the Faces.
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Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. The Faces were fantastic.
Except for the singer.
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Magrittes Pipe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. Damn.
You really don't like Rod Stewart, eh?
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Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. It's more of a vitriolic loathing.
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Magrittes Pipe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. He's way better than Glenn Frey.
Well, he is.
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Donating Member ( posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
56. Fleetwood Mac once Peter Green lost it.
Hey I had to live through the seventies!
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phillybri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
58. Queen??? That is friggin SACRELIGOUS!!!
When you talk about bands that have jumped the shark, you mention Aerosmith, Metallica, or Creed, but for god's sake NOT QUEEN!!!

Damn, I thought you were cool...:-(
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southpaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #58
62. Did we forget 'Hot Space'?
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phillybri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #62
69. One shitty album=JTS???
No way. What about "A Kind Of Magic", "The Works", "The Miracle", and my god have you heard "Innuendo"???
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #58
68. You can't convince me that anything past "The Game" was worthy
of the name Queen. I'm not even a fan of "The Game" but it's ok. BTW, I LOVE "Jazz".

But after "Jazz" they would have a good song here or there but nothing that worthy of album extrodinaire. And you're talking to a gal that ranks Queen as her #2 favorite band of all time!!!
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phillybri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #68
72. What about Innuendo???
Some of the best friggin tunes they EVER recorded are on that album:

The Show Must Go On???

Innuendo???

These Are The Days Of Our Lives???

Work w/ me Lynne, you are losing serious cool points!
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #72
79. it's ok, but just not there with me
I just love the style of their older music much much much better. You have to realize that my all time favorite songs by Queen are such obscure ones as "Some Day One Day" off of QueenII, Drowse(Day at the Races), Doing All Right (QueenI) just to name a few. I love the hard rock edge of Sheer Heart Attack, I'm in Love with my Car and Get Down Make Love. And I adore the fact that they never used a synthesizer in their old stuff. But the thing is I could listen to the ENTIRE album and love every song with these older albums. I adore listening to Jazz and I could do so over and over again. I probably know all the lyrics to every song on "Night at the Opera"

I just don't get that thrill with the newer stuff including INnuendo. I mean, I'll give you that it was probably the best of the newer stuff, but compared to I, II, Sheer Heart Attack, Day at the Races, Night at the Opera, News to the World and Jazz; well, it surely can't touch the magic of those albums
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SiouxJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #79
101. You don't get a thrill off Inuendo cuz Freddie was dying
If you listen to it in that context, it's deeply moving. I've cried listening to that album. Hardly a jump the shark album IMO.

I agree though, I prefer earlier Queen to most of their later stuff. My all time favorite song of theirs is way early - "Best Friend." Queen at its best.
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Westegg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #68
86. "Fat-bottom girls, you make the rockin' world go 'round"? ...
Jesus. Spare me. I love the first 6 Queen albums but that's it, IMO.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #86
95. I love that song - it's my phone ring tone
But then again I'm the original Fat-Bottom Girl
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Westegg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #95
96. Well, LynneSin, I love YOU. And my phone ring tone is...
"Hurdy-Gurdy Man" by Donovan. But "Fat Bottom..." is bottom-of-the barrel Queen as far as I'm concerned. I'm more of a "King Rat" guy myself.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #96
98. awww....I love you too
and I forgive you for not loving my song!!!

:loveya:

But I hope you love box turtles because I love them more
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Westegg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. Fact is, this is not the first time someone put a box turtle ahead of me.
I don't "love" box turtles, though I turn them over when I see them on their backs. At the same time, I'm a big fan of turtle soup.

Yeah...I'm complicated.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #99
111. NOT TURTLE SOUP
That could be your next door neighbor's partner

:cry:

MURDERER

You obviously do not respect the humans/box turtle relationship

:cry:
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Westegg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #111
112. Gosh, sorry to upset you! But served in the shell it's quite tastey!
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
73. Taj Mahal, with that bizarre Hawaiian album he did a couple years ago.
What was that about?
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
75. THE BEATLES with The White Album.
:)

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Donkeyboy75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
80. DMB - "Remember Two Things"
I'll get flamed for saying they ever had a decent album...but this was a really good one before they became way to overplayed.
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Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
83. Sugar - F.U.E.L, Cocteau Twins - Four Calendar Cafe
Manic Street Preachers - Know Your Enemy.
Primal Scream jumped the shark with 'Give Out...' but jumped back on with 'Vanishing Point' then jumped again with 'Evil Heat'
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bbernardini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #83
114. Can Sugar really have jumped the shark with F.U.E.L....
...when they broke up after the tour for it? Besides, you're wrong. :) That album is genius, although not quite as genius as Copper Blue. Even my wife adores that one, and she likes almost nothing I like.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
94. Hate to say it, but...Kate Bush
Don't get me wrong, she turned out some great material, but it seems that after Hounds of Love, she sort of lost her way. Wonderful tracks such as The Sensual World found themselves sharing space with underachievers like Deeper Understanding. My feeling is that Kate may have tried too hard when the 90's rolled in, pulling in too much help from Eric Clapton, Trio Bulgarka, Prince, et al, diluting the overall effort.

Hope she's alright, though - I've been hearing some disconcerting rumors about her mental health.
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AVID Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
103. Van Halen - twice
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drumwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
104. my two cents
The Who jumped the shark when Keith Moon died, and Metallica jumped the shark with the "black album."
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bif Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
105. Spinal Tap
You hardly hear anything from them anymore.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
107. Starland Vocal Band
They jumped with "Afternoon Delight", yet they won the Grammy in 1976 as Best New Artist....
:shrug:
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neverborn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #107
123. ARGH AFTERNOON DELIGHT WORST SONG EVER
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truthbetold Donating Member (525 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
113. Creed.
Oh wait, they were never good to begin with.

/prepares to be flamed by rabid Creed fans.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #113
124. We were hoping Creed would jump in the shark tank
With those rabid sharks with lasers on their head
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name not needed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
115. Metallica
At the exact moment that Cliff Burton died.
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
119. U2 - Discoteque
Many would say zooropa, but I liked that album
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 05:32 AM
Response to Original message
121. Rush changed after "Moving Pictures." "Signals" was mostly synth sounds.
Fly By Night
Caress of Steele
2112
Hemispheres
Permanent Waves
Moving Pictures

These were their best albums. Then, it seems, they tried to copy U2 and/or the Police after signals. I stopped going to their shows after 1986.
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bbernardini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #121
126. Then you're really missing out!
I saw them on the "Vapor Trails" tour, and it was absolutely incredible. I've also heard a recording of the opening show of the 30th Anniversary tour, and it was just as good, if not better. You should catch a show on this tour if you can.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #126
129. Ok, I'll give them a listen again. I've been into classical and jazz,
and "world music" for the last two decades and haven't paid attention to my former inspirations. When I was first learning how to play guitar, I learned everything that Lifeson played up until "Moving Pictures," but then I began studying classical guitar and never looked back. I heard Lifeson attempt to play classical guitar (it wasn't very good) and got turned off. Years later, I find that I was silly to judge him based on some arbitrary standard and remember how much I loved his sound when he played a Gibson ES335 on those early albums. Last year when I lived in Brasil, I bought a DVD of a Rush concert (very funny because it has Japanese subtitles) for one dollar. I realise that I miss them, so I will check out "Vapor Trails."
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richmwill Donating Member (972 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
131. Queen
Queen got great again at the very end. "The Miracle", "Innuendo" and "Made In Heaven" all had great, haunting rock melodies. I'll agree, the 70's were the best time for the band, then it went a bit downhill in the 80's. But the last 3 albums/CD's were amazing.
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