186 responses with some DUers in favor of statutory rape

[Misinformed01]

And some DUers claiming that reading the thread is entertaining.

Thank you to the DUers trying to explain to the jackasses why child molestation is a bad thing; apparently they couldn't understand sexism to save their freaking lives...maybe they will understand a real crime.

Or maybe not.

How disgusting is this.

[tandot]

1. Do you have a link? n/t

n/t

[Misinformed01]

3. yes

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=1408461&mesg_id=1408461

[Dookus]

2. because not everything is as simple

as some people would like to make them.

My grandmother got married at 14.... to a man in his mid-20's. They had a long, happy marriage.

I was 13 when I first had sex, and believe me, it was entirely consensual.

The teacher was very wrong to do what she did, but just shouting "rape!" about it ignores a lot of things.

[Susang]

The discussion was not "simple" as you put it

I would say that most of us were discussing the article that was referenced and the attitudes that were being posted in response.

I believe that comparing this to your grandmother's marriage is overly simplistic, as the only thing in common between the two situations is the ages. Society and society's norms have changed significantly since then, don't you agree?

[Dookus]

18. Yes, I agree

but in many ways, the change in norms is counter-intuitive. Americans reach puberty earlier than ever before, and yet we postpone marriage longer than ever.

I wasn't saying the Florida case was equivalent to my grandmother - I'm pointing out that just yelling "It's RAPE!" and objecting to any other discussion on the subject isn't productive. It's meant to shut down any discussion of the important issues involved.

[Susang]

26. I thought that the people who were calling it rape

Were specifically referring to this case and not all statutory rape cases. Perhaps I was incorrect, but I'm guessing that there was an element of frustration that some were not seeing the additonal component (her being his teacher) as contributing to the severity of the crime.

[dorktv]

4. You know...I do not consider a 17 year old a child.

[Misunderestimator]

5. DU has certainly been enlightening to me in the past 2 weeks.

And unfuckingbelievable that such ignorance prevails.

[HallowsEve]

6. O MY GOD!

NOT A DIVERSITY OF OPINION!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

There are people in the world who still have lessons to learn?? How could it be???

I'm Smilin...please don't take me seriously. We are an extraordinarily fragmented society and we are blessed to have this forum to discuss these things. We MUST communicate in order to better understand and someday get back on track as UNITED States of America instead of just "the States"...10~31 ~O~

[Blue-Jay]

7. Scroll down from my comment, Mis01

I was being sarcastic when I proclaimed the thread "entertaining".

I'm just sayin'...

[Susang]

9. Supporting BlueJay here - he was most definitely being sarcastic!

Just hard to translate in that mess. Don't string him up, he's one of the good guys! ;-)

[Blue-Jay]

12. Awww. Thanks.

You get a pat on the ass for that! :D

[HEyHEY]

11. Fuck it man it IS entertaining

The peanut gallery is the place to be. Crack a beer and watch the hilarity ensue.

[HuckleB]

28. Unfortunately, this isn't a laughing matter.

Sorry to be a party pooper, but I'm pooping all over the place on this one.

[chicaloca]

34. As I said to someone else...

How lucky for you that molestation and rape have never touched your life. How lucky that you can find it funny. I remember a time when I used to be like that, but unfortunately, I can't do that anymore. And it's not my goddamn choice that I can't take it lightly. I'm glad you find it funny, though. Really.

[GOPisEvil]

8. I'm amazed...reverse the roles and every one would be sickened.

[slinkerwink]

14. and that's what sickens me about this double standard.

[dorktv]

16. Actually I think that teachers should never get involved

in students at a school or that they should break the law.

[Forkboy]

10. Thats why I skipped the thread

As a guy I do understand that it's a fantasy of many of us at that age,and yes the teacher was beautiful....but that's all completely irrelevant.At that age (and from what you say about that thread,apparently older men too) most guys dont realize the mental consequences of such a crime.

The closest thing I can relate it to is a freind I had who was seduced by his step mother when he was 14.He ended up commiting suicide at 16,and I know from talking to him about it many times that the seduction was a major problem for him.I know a lot of guys here first reaction would be "cool!".

Not so.

[Beware the Beast Man]

13. Thank you for putting it so eloquently

You hit the mark on basically everything I was going to say.
That's the sad double standard in this society. 23 year old man sleeps with 14 year old girl, it's rape. 23 year old woman sleeps with 14 year old boy, it's a Penthouse letter. It's cheap.


EDIT- to clarify, I'm on the side of her committing stautory rape. What she did was inexcusable. Also, wasn't she married?

[CatWoman]

19. that's because he's a wise ass

his ass is not only cute, but wise :D

[Forkboy]

21. LOL

cut that out :spank:

:hi:

[patcox2]

15. The legal age of consent is a completely artificial and arbitrary line.

Its is also sexist and a throwback to the days when women were viewed as property and the real underlying basis for the outrage over things like rape and seduction was the fact that these crimes soiled another man's property. Not to mention its age-ist.

Your beleif that its the moral equivalent of rape every time a person on one side of that arbitrary line has sex with someone on the other side is absurd.

The law is not morality. The law sets minimum standards of behavior designed to ensure a civil society. Morality is a higher standard and one open to some variance in opinions. To say "I have never broken the law" does not mean you are a good person. Likewise breaking a law does not etsablish that you are an immoral person. Is it really immoral to smoke pot, or to drink beer at 20 years old as opposed to 21? Equating breaking the law (malum prohibitum) with immorality (malum in se) is way too simplistic.

Expecting the law to etsablish morality is also a theocratic trend. Sharia law, for example, embodies muslim morality. Thats not our way.

[HEyHEY]

17. Excellent points

Saying the teacher is a rapist is like calling half the world and other cultures sex offenders

[Donkeyboy75]

20. I don't think it's as simple as "rape,"

and it may be possible for a 14 y.o. and 23 y.o. to have a loving, consensual relationship (see Dookus' post). But two things are being left out of your post: 1) She abused a position of power and 2) She cheated on her spouse.

This woman is fucked up. Throwing her in jail alone isn't the answer...she needs some mental help.

[StopThief]

31. Watch out. . . .

Those two things were the exact two things that the Anti-Clinton folks were saying about the Lewinsky affair.

[Susang]

32. And how old was Monica Lewinsky anyway?

Thanks for the strawman! :eyes:

[Misinformed01]

33. Monica Lewinsky

was over the age of 21. That has zero to do with this case; I don't give a rat's ass what the Republicans said about Clinton and Lewinsky.

[JVS]

22. Stop on red and go on green is also artificial and arbitrary

The line must be drawn somewhere or other. Woe unto those who transgress.

[Susang]

23. It is not just age that is at issue here

The woman was his teacher and in a position of power and authority, as well as being 9 years older than him. This wasn't a random 23 year old woman and 14 year old boy. Her job was to insure his education and safety.

[HuckleB]

24. My response to that thread.

"I'm very disheartened to see this at DU.

I would hope that folks here had gotten beyond this type of crap, this societal nonsense that keeps so many boys of all ages from reporting abuse. How many kids and young men who developed major depression, drug and alcohol habits and on and on, after being abused and not reporting it -- largely because of the way we treat boys in this country, must I work with in my life? I dunno. But this type of crap only helps to keep those sad cases flowing my way.

Believe me, I wish I was out of business.

This is unbelievable."

I'm astounded by the ignorance shown there, and by the sheer unwillingness to even begin to educate themselves while trying to paint this as a matter of "sexual repression."

It's repression all right. Abuse by an adult in power is definitely repression.

[Misinformed01]

30. Thank you for the thoughtful post

I am going to go through all 197 posts of that damn thread, and just start hitting the "ignore" button. This thread was as eye opening as the sexism ones.


I am completely disgusted. What are these people doing on a progressive board?

[JayS]

25. I saw your post and if it were my son I would have a talk with...

...him and then a talk with his teacher, but would not raise much cane. Now, if it were my daughter, the teacher's next essay would be on Swimming With Concrete. Is this a double standard? Yes.

I was in a similar situation at that kid's age and have never felt harmed by it, but that was in a time and place where kids grew up fast anyway. This teacher does not sound like she has a healthy view of sex...with anyone.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

27. Just avoid threads like that. I do, and it's a lot less grief.

[tandot]

29. A teacher should NEVER ever touch a student, no matter what age

I had sex for the first time at age 13 (I am now 40). My boyfriend was 19 at that time. I didn't consider myself a child nor did I feel abused. And looking back, I feel about that the same way now.

My grandmother was married and had her first child at age 16.

However, teachers, have a lot of power over teens. People like this teacher need to be in jail. Actually this should apply to all adults who deal with children/teens either professionally or in private organizations, and who abuse their position of power to gain sexual favors.

[Moderator]

35. locking

this is inflamatory