Ladies would you?

[angee_is_mad]

Buy your own engagement ring? I was just reading an article on that pitiful child, Britney Spears and it seems like that 5caret diamond she is sporting came from her money.

So, she pays for the wedding, buys the ring, is not going to have a pre-nup and is going to take care of his child support payments. Sounds like that is one lucky guy and baby's mommy to me.

[AngryAmish]

1. I hate diamonds

But try to tell that to most gals. The overwhelming power of corporate marketing over common decency. Anyone who buys a diamond has blood on their hands.

[physioex]

3. I agree, they aren't worth anything...

Manufacturing processes are coming online where there starting to make artificial diamonds look more like real diamonds.

[MsUSA]

51. Yup, those are the ones I'm buying.....

hated the fact that kids were losing hands, and arms in those terrible diamond mines and for pit-tens. When I heard they are manufacturing diamonds in the lab, well, my little heart jumped for joy. I do love diamonds, and wouldn't buy any before, now boy, look out. hehehe

[brainshrub]

7. Amen, Amen and again Amen!!!

And a great big Hallelujah!

Diamonds = Blood.

[angee_is_mad]

8. k, how about the ring though?

I respect your objections to diamonds, but how about any ring for engagement purposes? I am sure you realize that an engagement ring does not=diamond ring.

[physioex]

9. Seriously...

How can we sit around and compare the choices Brittney makes to the realities in our lives...It just makes no sense.

[angee_is_mad]

11. seriously

how can a working class black woman compare her life to any multi-millionaire? But I must say that I do wonder what makes some people tick. It is no bigger than that, just simple curiosity!

[greeneyedpookie]

48. This is true!

My engagement ring is not a diamond. It is a beautiful sterling silver band the has moon's and star's making the ring band. Our wedding rings will be silver also with the Trinity Celtic Knot around the entire band. Diamonds do not make a ring.

GEP

:bounce:

[Donkeyboy75]

15. That's a little simplistic, don't you think?

Not all diamonds come from Sierra Leone

[AngryAmish]

21. Not at all simplistic

Diamonds are a commodity. There is an artificial scarcity in diamonds (due to monopoly power) that bid the price up. Because the market price is so high, it makes ownership of diamond mines extremely valuable and funds so much evil in Africa. There are other marketing practices by DeBeers that make conflict diamonds valuable.

The only way to starve that market is not to consider diamonds valuable. Do not buy them. The particular diamond you buy may be "certified" by DeBeers not to be a conflict diamond, but if you are in the market at all you make the market price higher, making the killing go on.

DeBeers is utterly corrupt. But their happy, feel good "Diamonds are Forever" marketing makes gals legs melt.

[Donkeyboy75]

23. It's still simplistic.

So, because one company (albeit a large one) is unethical, that should make everyone refrain from buying diamonds? No, my answer would be to buy diamonds from others, reducing DeBeers' market share, and lessening their influence on the diamond trade.

[AngryAmish]

24. But any purchase of diamonds bids up the market price

Making those diamonds fields more valuable and worth fighting over.

I understand that many items of various necessity and utility come from scummy origins. But the case against jem quality diamonds is extremely clear due to the fact that they are baubles. Buy a ruby or emerald or anything but diamonds.

[Donkeyboy75]

32. Any price does bid up the market price.

But I'm not holding the owner of a diamond mine in Canada accountable for what DeBeers does. I'll give him/her my business, stealing the market share from DeBeers. That way, they have less influence over the diamond market.

[AngryAmish]

37. Sir, I have to respectfully disagree

Buying any diamond at the artificially high price makes the market go higher. That I think we agree on.

But the Canadian who does mine and market diamonds is selling a commodity that he knows kills people by the bushelfull.

The owner of the diamond mine in Canada benefits from the artifical scarcity created by DeBeers. They just don't have the market power to move the market. So they Canadian sells on the margin, selling a polished rock for a higher price and benefits from DeBeers.

[Donkeyboy75]

39. I can see neither of us will budge, but I'll post again.

I enjoy a civil disagreement. I just don't see how a guy owning a diamond mine in Canada would shut down his business. If it is true that they benefit from an artificial scarcity, it's not this owner's fault. Also, how does DeBeers benefit from his sale? If they are powerful enough to create the scarcity, surely they will not be affected by some small guy owning a Canadian diamond mine...

[AngryAmish]

47. DeBeers does not directly benefit from buying Canadian diamonds

I'm talking about the warlords who own mines in Sierra Leone. The consumer is the one who is willing to pay X dollars for a diamond. If a consumer is not willing to buy any diamonds the price will be X-1, marginally lowering the market price. It will give the warlord (and DeBeers) less money for the diamonds they do sell.

I don't think that my actions of not wanting to buy a diamond will change anyone's life, but I just could not participate in the market knowing what I know.

[chicaloca]

33. Let's see....

They don't make my legs melt, they don't make my engaged roommate's legs melt, (but her fiance got her a diamond ring even though she didn't particularly want one) and in fact, most of my female friends don't really like diamonds. But thanks for the stereotyping.

Anyhow, I don't really like the idea of engagement rings, period, but if I do ever need to decide, I'd get pretty much anything but a diamond -- what's the attraction to them? I've seen pieces of gravel in my parents' yard that are prettier than diamonds. I also guess there's a relatively new blood gem on the market called Tanzanite or something, and it's freaky how much jewelers are pushing it. My friends and I were stuck in a jewelry store a few months ago while one friend got her wedding ring resized, and the guy at the counter was practically shoving this damn tanzanite ring down our throats. Sadly, it's a really beautiful gem, so I can see a lot of people going crazy for it.

But to answer the original question -- I think people should pay for rings, weddings, etc., according to their ability to pay. In Britney's case, I can see why she'd pay for all that stuff since she's rich, but it's becoming increasingly obvious that her scuzzy fiance is only after her for her money. It almost makes me feel bad for her. But then I come back to Earth and realize that, as his ex-fiance said, they deserve each other.

[tigereye]

18. I have no diamonds and no gold

I have a nice silver wedding ring with cool engraving.

[Xithras]

55. Gold is a good investment

I currently own about 68 pounds of gold as my retirement and kids college funds (took the money I made during the boom, dumped it into gold as the market tanked). The nice thing about gold is that it's always exchangeable on the world market. Even if the worst case scenario were to happen and Bu$h were to win this fall and destroy our economy, making the U.S. dollar worthless, I'll still be able to trade my gold against the Euro, the Yen, or any number of other currencies to keep some sort of income in my family.

[gollygee]

30. Absolutely

I told my dh I didn't want an engagement ring. I don't have one. I dont' even bother wearing my wedding band anymore - even though we are very happily married. A ring does not make a marriage.

[AngryAmish]

38. I am not at all opposed to rings and gemstones

Everyone is a grown-up and make their own decisions. If you feel diamonds and rings are not your thing, good for you.

But I suspect that you are in a small minority of gals.

My main beef is the blood diamond or conflict diamond area. And the business practices of DeBeers.

[Missy Vixen]

41. Uh, no, that's not true

>Anyone who buys a diamond has blood on their hands.<

A local jeweler sells Canadian non-conflict diamonds. They're more expensive, but well worth the cash if one likes diamonds.

Julie

[Shananigans]

50. I have a friend who agrees....

He used to tell his girlfriend that if they ever got engaged he'd buy her anything but a diamond. In the end she got her diamond, though.

Although I think that diamonds do represent hundreds of years of filth, oppression and greed, they also symbolize love, tradition and committment. I guess you have to weigh the pros and cons when it comes to your choice.

[physioex]

2. Nooo not Britney...

She is soo damn annoying. Yet another washed up Disney manufactured pop star.... :puke:

[Deja Q]

5. Don't tell me:

She'll be the next star in Disney's next remake of "The Computer Wore Tennis-Shoes"... or yet another remake of "Freaky Friday"? Disney can go political correct on our asses and make her Don Knotts' charcater in "The (New) Apple Dumpling Gang" too...

Sigh...

[Madrone]

4. YES!

Actually had this discussion with the man I thought I would marry a couple of years ago -

Although not materialistic, I am kind of big on heirloom quality when it comes to a wedding ring. I prefer silver to gold, so I insist on platinum for wedding rings. Because heirloom quality usually = EXPENSIVE, because I am insistant about what I want, AND because men get gipped as their rings are relatively CHEAP I will most happily and insistantly kick in on the ring I want if it's more than a fiance's budget will allow. No question.

[eyesroll]

6. My engagement ring is an heirloom, but I don't wear it

It just seems too precarious; I'm afraid I'll lose it or the stone will come off its setting.

If it hadn't been an heirloom, I probably would have nixed the idea of a traditional engagement ring. Maybe gotten something vintage, maybe not. It's kind of a waste of money, in my opinion (but I spend money all the time on stuff other people would consider wasteful -- to each his/her own, I guess). Our wedding rings are basic, no gems, simple pattern.

That said -- is it ever appropriate for a woman to buy her own jewelry, instead of waiting for a man to give her some? Of course. I'm not into diamonds -- put off entirely by DeBeers -- but if I wanted a ring/pendant/whatever, I'd buy one, not drop hints (like the commercials say I'm supposed to).

[angee_is_mad]

10. he ask to marry you

and you buy the ring? That is the point I was trying to make. I can understand a woman wanting to get the ring that she wants. If that ring is out of the price range of the significant other, it is understandable if she helps with the cost.

[eyesroll]

12. Well, if he was the one who asked, and if I was expected to have a ring,

then, well, yeah, he should pay. If the ring I wanted was more than he was willing or able to spend, I should cover the difference.

If we came to a mutual decision about getting married, then the ring should be a mutual decision and a mutual purchase as well. If I asked, I should get him a ring. :-)

Really -- I understand the whole idea of both partners wearing a wedding ring -- kind of like everyone in your group at the field trip to the zoo wearing the same color. The whole engagement-ring thing is neither here nor there for me -- cool if you want one, cool if you don't. (I'm a real romantic, I know.)

But, that said -- if Britney's got millions, and her boy has hundreds, and Britney wants a big rock, Britney should pay for it.

[tigereye]

19. in my house

we mutually agreed to marry. And we mutually paid for the wedding rings. I think I got a joke ring of sorts for "enngagement" but then I am not very traditional.

[New Dem]

26. it sounds nice

i guess i like your way of thinking...you mutually agreed to marry...so you mutually paid for the rings...very nice and modern :)

[tigereye]

35. I guess I don't think that the guy should pay for it all

and I still have my own name. I think that it should be a decision for both people, not one just asking the other.

[New Dem]

42. names

Yeah, i have often thought about that...i would find it difficult to change my name - i mean i have had that name my whole life! But i know there some of my friends who can't wait to change their names...so i guess to each his own!

[tigereye]

44. well I'm an "old school" feminist

and a lot of my female friends either kept or hyphenated their names. However, since I have gotten older, it doesn't seem such a big deal to me now. Some people I knew made up a new name when they married ( that was pretty cool) or the guys took the women's names. There is a lot of room out there for different approaches.

And welcome to DU new dem! :hi:

[New Dem]

46. i'm new to it all

I have just started to realize that perhaps i am a feminist...so its all new to me just yet. thats why i was drawn to your posts..b/c i was like yeah...that makes sense to me! i had an overseas assignment for my work and i just got back to the good ole usa...and i realized that i had taken alot foregranted as an american woman - my freedom and my own personal identity. in alot of other parts of the world, you really are who your husband/father is....one time i went to a reception and all the ladies asked me who my husband was or who my father was...when i explained to them that i was at this reception representing my work not my husband or father...they were really surprised.

so thats when i decided i was a feminist...it happened around the same time i decided i was democrat, after all! :)

and thanks for the welcome..its good to be here :)

[tigereye]

52. it is interesting to see the perspectives

of younger women or of those who see the term "feminist" as a negative term. I guess I have thought of it as reflecting a time when American women had fewer freedoms and limited career expectations, and that wasn't that long ago - the 50s/60s. There are some who feel that younger women take these improvements for granted, I don't know that that is really the case.

On the other hand, women in many other cultures are living in the "dark ages" by our reckoning, no education ( I was shocked to read recently that 50% or even more - it was a pretty high figure!) are denied even basic education! That is really scary.

Good luck on your journey of political and general self-discovery! BTW my mom was raised as a Rep. and now is extremely liberal (actually a lot of Reps were pretty moderate back then) and my dad was a Dem/vet who voted for Nixon. Go figure. Both are pretty liberal now. Both of their parents were ward chairs for their resp. parties, too. So political views tend to change over time. :)

[Cybergata]

58. I don't care if young women take things for granted...

I mean, didn't we work and struggle so they could. So that no one would question a young woman's right to be a doctor, lawyer, CEO?

:hippie:

[tigereye]

59. fair point

I guess it is the province of the ones who came before... and I guess some of them want to make sure it doesn't happen again, or continues to improve! :) and now they want the other women to be aware of the plight of those women worldwide who continue to have few freedoms.

[Cybergata]

49. I kept my own name all my life!

The first time I was married, which was in 1974, people questioned if I was breaking the law by keeping my birth name. At the time, it seemed like a lot of doors closed when I was married. It seemed like I was viewed as a wife of somebody, and not an individual. I hated it.

I divorced shortly after I was married and vowed never to make a relationship with a man "legal" again. My recent husband wanted us to get married, and we married in 1994. It is amazing how much things have changed for women in the 20 years between my weddings. Of course it helps that my husband is a feminist as well.

:hippie:

[tigereye]

53. I think it is harder for younger women

to imagine what it was like not that long ago, although I bet their moms tell them! Boy, I sound like such an old fart. :)

[New Dem]

54. wow

Thanks for your post.

I think some women of my generation probably do take foregranted what came before (or maybe it was just me)...i think we might have a few rocks and pebbles down the road..but the women that came before us removed the huge boulders from our path! :)

I mean i can't even believe that people would think you keeping your name in 1974 was breaking a law! wow.

[Cybergata]

56. well...

..after people starting asking me if I were breaking the law, I looked in to state laws about women keeping their own names. I found that it actually was illegal in Hawaii at the time.

I once read something a woman wrote about changing her name back to her birth name. She did so when she earned a PHD. She said that she felt she earned the right to use her own name after gaining her PHD. How sad! Why should anyone have to give away the first thing they were ever given, their names!


:hippie:

[SheilaT]

17. If you are that worried about your ring

take it to a reputable local jewelry store and have them look it over and see if stones need tightening. If the ring is loose on your finger, get it sized so it will fit.

You should at least be wearing it occasionally. Why bother to have a lovely heirloom ring if it sits in a box all the time?

[billybob537]

13. Brittany supports SHRUB*

I hope he takes her for everything shes got.

[angee_is_mad]

14. and he will

and his baby's mommy. I think that is why the ex is not complaining about the engagement. She probably already has the kids on a waiting list for the hippest daycare in LA!

[SheilaT]

16. Of course not.

Maybe, just maybe if you want something more expensive than he can afford you could chip in, but if you're wanting a big, flashy, expensive ring, surely you're capable of finding the guy who can buy it, aren't you?

And I do need to chime in also that not all diamonds are blood diamonds. Buy from a reputable merchant who can tell you where they came from. Of course, if you don't like diamonds or don't like engagement rings in general, there's no rule that you have to have one.

My husband and I do not have matching wedding bands. I liked one style, he liked another, so we each purchased for they other what was wanted.

[AngryAmish]

22. All diamonds are blood diamonds

DeBeers runs the outfit that certifies the non-conflict diamonds.

However, any participation in the market bids the price higher and makes the diamonds worth fighting over.

[Nikia]

20. My friend bought an upgrade

She got engaged shortly after I did. Her boyfriend had bought probably the smallest diamond that could probably be put in a setting. I didn't say anything even though I thought that it looked funny. I thought that if he could not afford a diamond, that a different stone would have been better than a diamond barely bigger than a chip surrounded by prongs. About half way through the engagement, she showed me her new 1/3 carat ring that she had bought herself. I suppose that's what Brittany is doing. She knows that he cannot afford a big enough ring for her so she is avoiding the embarassment to her fiance of upgrading. My husband bought me a nice ring that fit my hand. A big ring would have looked silly on my small finger.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

25. Nah

I'd buy myself a beautiful CZ ring, or maybe something with some other gemstones.

Eh. If she wants to buy her own, so be it. He obviously doesn't have the kind of money he would need to buy her the kind she wants.

What's the difference? We can lay odds they won't be married over five years at the most.

[HEyHEY]

27. WHAT? Why can't I meet a girl like that?

[ChoralScholar]

28. I suppose if I were dating a girl

who wanted a more expensive ring than I could afford, she'd HAVE to buy it herself.

[jukes]

29. every word in the media

concerning brit is as fake as her tits.

h'wood hype; keep her in the news, good or bad, or the talentless moneycow dries up.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

31. Assuming I found Mr. Right, I wouldn't care either way about the ring, but

Mama Leftcoast would have a fit if my fiance didn't spring for a big rock.

She always notices what size engagement ring everyone has and makes disparaging remarks if it's too small. She's 83 years old.

Personally, I'd rather have a sapphire, and I would be willing to help pay for it.

[SheilaT]

36. Sapphires make wonderful

engagement rings. That's what I have, with two small diamonds on either side and I love it precisely because it's not the standard diamond.

And sapphires (along with rubies) are the mineral corundum, very hard, something like a 9 on the hardness scale. They come in many colors, not just the standard blue.

When we were looking for an engagement ring for me, I'd decided I wanted a sapphire with square-cut diamonds on either side, and none of the jewelry stores had anything quite like that in stock. I didn't know back then that any decent jewelry store can order in stones and make up the ring you want, until finally an astute saleswoman at one place asked me, "What exactly do you want?"

We told her, she got about three sapphires and several sets of diamonds and we looked them over, discussed setting and price, and a week or two later I had the perfect engagement ring!

The main thing to be aware of if you go for anything except a diamond or ruby/sapphire, is that anything less hard may not be suitable for a ring that you'd wear every day, as in an engagement ring.

[tjdee]

34. HELL naw, and Britney=DUMMY.

The girl even asked HIM to marry her.
That guy is going to live off her, and she doesn't care. He's running an excellent game.

I am twisted in thinking that a man should propose and buy the ring.
I like to see a man making the effort, especially since there is wide perception that women have to knock men over the head and drag them to the altar.

If I have to suggest that I marry him and then buy my own ring, I'd think he wasn't really interested.
That said, the price of the ring is unimportant. I'm not one of those girls who would pout if it weren't such and such a cut platinum whatever and go out and appraise it. It's supposed to be a symbol of love, not a status symbol.

[Missy Vixen]

40. Absolutely not.

>Buy your own engagement ring?<

Nope.

I like diamonds. Since I only wear one ring, I wanted one I wouldn't be sick of after a couple of years. I bought his ring, he bought mine.

Julie

[Misinformed01]

43. I didn't want an engagement ring

I wanted Michael.

Still don't have a ring; still happy with The World's Cutest Husband.

Stephanie

[LWolf]

45. No.

I've been married twice and didn't have an engagement ring either time. I don't plan on getting married again; two strikes are enough for me. But if I wanted to get married, the ring, or absence of ring, would be irrelevant.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

57. no, but i wear diamonds from my father

in lieu of an engagement ring

[melv]

61. we had gold and diamonds first

but then realized as we grew older that we just went with the status quo. So, 2 years back on our anniversary we put his gold band and my diamond in a jewelry box and purchased rings that meant more to us and represented us more truthfully. Cost for two sterling silver rings: $35. Cost in satisfaction dollars: priceless

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

60. We took my future Mother-In-Law's diamond - noo blood diamonds for

my darling (her idea). We reset it and I paid for it. No one should pay for their own engagement ring.

As for the bubblehead you're referring to - did you see her in F9/11?


"Honestly, I think we should just trust our president in every decision he makes and should just support that, you know, and be faithful in what happens."

'nuff said

[sus]

62. no.

expensive jewelry stresses me out. i'd probably lose it or something.

and i don't like traditional weddings. i'd rather elope.

man, i'm cheap!