Is it Christian to call oneself a *real* Christian?

BurtWorm

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Wed Jul-28-04 02:54 PM
Original message

Is it Christian to call oneself a *real* Christian?

When comparing yourself to someone whose religious, philosophical, political or moral views you don't share? If not, is it a sin?

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donco6

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Wed Jul-28-04 02:58 PM
Response to Original message

1. It doesn't make any sense.

If people themselves can't tell if they're "real" Christians or not, what's the point?

I mean, anyone who calls himself a Christian, thinks he's a Christian, right? But many Christians then go around, essentially saying, "well, he's not REALLY a Christian, because REAL Christians are thus and so (speak in tongues, vote Democrat/Republican, oppose abortion, read a certain Bible)." So it begs the question, What is a real Christian, and How can anyone ever know if they really are a Christian?

<head spinning>

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Beware the Beast Man

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Wed Jul-28-04 03:00 PM
Response to Original message

2. No.

A "real" Christian never has to proclaim themselves as such. I'm reminded of that passage in Matthew where Jesus says not to be like the hypocrites who stand on street corners praying so everyone can see them (I am paraphrasing). Someone with true faith should never have to call themselves out.

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Aftershock

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Wed Jul-28-04 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #2

7. Right on!

That's exactly right.

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ornotna

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Wed Jul-28-04 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #2

21. Amen brother

Matthew 6:5-8

5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

The whole chapter is pretty damning to how many fundies behave.

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drb

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Wed Jul-28-04 03:01 PM
Response to Original message

3. Among most Christians, it would be viewed as...

Edited on Wed Jul-28-04 03:05 PM by drb

...pretty f*****g lame, to say the least.

Being forgiven by Christ, as Christians are, isn't anything for us to brag about. We're a bunch of low-life schmucks, but God in His infinite mercy is giving us a break.

Free.

Doesn't sound to me like anything to brag about.

"Real" Christians back up their views with scripture. Like, "First remove the log from your own eye, and then you can help your brother remove the spec from his eye."

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Fenris

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Wed Jul-28-04 03:02 PM
Response to Original message

4. There has been only one Christian. They caught and crucified him--early.

--Mark Twain

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Selwynn

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Wed Jul-28-04 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #4

6. Actually, that would be nietzsche, who said

"there was only one Christian, and he died on a cross."

Not saying Twain didn't say something similar, but FN said it first. :)

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Fenris

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Wed Jul-28-04 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #6

8. Twain said it in his notebook in 1898

So you can work from there.:)

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Selwynn

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Wed Jul-28-04 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #8

24. Nietzsche said it 10 years earlier in the Antichirst. Twain quoted him.

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vicman

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Wed Jul-28-04 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #6

11. Sorry, but most likely wrong

Googled it different ways, and came up with many instances of the quote attributed to Twain, but not one to Neitzsche. Try it yourself maybe?

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Selwynn

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Wed Jul-28-04 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #11

23. Actually, I'm right - please check "The Antichrist"

It was also on this date, October 15, 1844, that German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche was born in Röcken, Saxony, the son of a Lutheran pastor who died when he was five. Brought up by pious relatives, Nietzsche was educated at the universities of Bonn (1864-65) and Leipzig (1864-68), becoming a professor at the University of Basel, Switzerland, at the age of 25. He soon rejected the faith of his father and became a lifelong critic of Christianity. "In truth, there was only one Christian," he wrote in The Antichrist (1888), "and he died on the cross."

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Kellanved

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Thu Jul-29-04 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #11

31. No, Selwynn is correct

Edited on Thu Jul-29-04 07:04 AM by Kellanved

The actual quote is :

"Christenthum" ist ein Missverständniss -, im Grunde gab es nur Einen Christen, und der starb am Kreuz. Das "Evangelium" starb am Kreuz.

Der Antichrist, Kapitel 39. Written in 1888/1889

English:

The very word "Christianity" is a misunderstanding--at bottom there was only one Christian, and he died on the cross. The "Gospels" died on the cross.

http://www.fns.org.uk/ac.htm

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Tosca

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Wed Jul-28-04 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #4

10. Very peculiar quote. I'm surprised Twain said it.

It makes no sense.

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vicman

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Wed Jul-28-04 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #10

14. Why?

It fits perfectly with Twain's thinking and writing in the last decade of his life. Ever read "Letters From The Earth?" "The Mysterious Stranger?"

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Tosca

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Wed Jul-28-04 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #14

20. Why?

Because it's absurd to call Jesus a Christian. Jesus was a Jew.
And Christianity was non-existent in his time.

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Selwynn

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Wed Jul-28-04 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #10

25. It was nietasche, twain quoted it, and there's no reason it should suprise

..since he was an outspoken critic.

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T_i_B

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Thu Jul-29-04 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #4

28. The term "Christian"

was actually an insult towards us used in roman times. Kinda like "fundie" on this board is often used as an anti-Christian slur.

We are not ashamed of following Christ, so we started calling ourselves Christians with pride! :-)

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vicman

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Wed Jul-28-04 03:03 PM
Response to Original message

5. But isn't that

the very essence of religion? My God is the one true God, you are merely an idolator. I am the one true way, the light, the life; all others are mere traps of whatever devil (God) you may happen to believe in. Has any organized religion ever existed without this essential dogma? Otherwise, what's the point? Can't be proven until you're dead, so it only matters while I'm here (apologies to Phil Ochs for the lame paraphrase, but he had it right)...

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sangh0

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Wed Jul-28-04 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #5

15. No, it is not

For example, Buddhism doesn't require a belief in any god or gods.

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mark11727

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Wed Jul-28-04 03:12 PM
Response to Original message

9. I knew a couple of folks back in the day...

...they were "born agains", and were SO HUMBLE that they were SMUG about it... I pointed this out to them, and they forgave me my trespass.

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BurtWorm

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Wed Jul-28-04 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #9

13. Now that sounds like Mark Twain!

Edited on Wed Jul-28-04 03:23 PM by BurtWorm

;)

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supernova

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Wed Jul-28-04 03:17 PM
Response to Original message

12. No it's not kosher

to go around proclaiming so loudly what big "Christian" one is.

It's really not up to us to decide who is a better xtian than whoever else.

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beanball

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Wed Jul-28-04 03:22 PM
Response to Original message

16. Christians

you will know them by their fruit.

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BurtWorm

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Wed Jul-28-04 03:22 PM
Response to Original message

17. Thank you all for your input.

The reason I ask is a thread in GD about a winger calling into C-SPAN claiming to be a "real Christian" and strongly implying that Democrats who call themselves Christian aren't as real as she was. Right-wing Christians do this all the time, I've noticed, and it's always puzzled me--if they're such good Christians, why don't they know, as even I (a godless American) know, that you don't go around calling yourself a better Christian than someone else if you're really a good Christian. Know what I mean? I think some left wing Christians may be guilty of the same infraction, but it seems pervasive among the right.

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arwalden

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Wed Jul-28-04 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #17

18. I Thought Landover Baptist Had Trademarked "Real Christian"

... perhaps this caller was putting everyone on and acting as though she were a real-life character from Landover Baptist.

-- Allen

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XanaDUer

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Wed Jul-28-04 03:28 PM
Response to Original message

19. My personal favorite "real christian" quote

Edited on Wed Jul-28-04 03:31 PM by LibertyChick

spaketh thus from my proselytizing carpet cleaner, "I used to be a Catholic, now I'm a Christian."

BWA HA HA HA HA HA!

We reamed him. He ran away from our apartment, JUST RAN!

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demosincebirth

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Wed Jul-28-04 05:52 PM
Response to Original message

22. Just like humility...

if you think your're humble, its out the door!

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JVS

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Wed Jul-28-04 10:59 PM
Response to Original message

26. Only if one can point to a particular heresy to justify it.

Doctrinal disputes are everything

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T_i_B

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Thu Jul-29-04 06:06 AM
Response to Original message

27. A relevent Bible reading

Words which a lot of people round here, Christian or otherwise would do well to heed

http://bibleontheweb.com/Bible.asp

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

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WannaJumpMyScooter

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Thu Jul-29-04 06:11 AM
Response to Original message

29. No. It is not.

A "real" Christian would never say that, never even consider it.

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NMDemDist2

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Thu Jul-29-04 06:50 AM
Response to Original message

30. as opposed to an "imaginary Christian" ???? hehehe n/t

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