This is why I have a problem with Christianity

[pauliedangerously]

Because it leads to this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1093320

Could atheists do this?

[tuvor]

1. If I may humbly suggest...

You seem to have a problem instead with people who've hijacked Christianity.

[qnr]

3. Valid point, but regardless, it's still "Christianity"

if you see what I'm saying. Doesn't matter whether you believe that it is real Christianity or not, they claim to be Christians, and that is what everyone sees. Besides, without the whole "Rapture" bit is tied to Christianity, so the point is still valid.

Just saying, that's all.

Edit: Deleted a word

[pauliedangerously]

5. And if I may so humbly retort....

How could someone hijack atheism?

[Droopy]

2. There are a lot of liberal Christians on this board

And I agree with their interpretation more than I do the fundies. The point is that I think that people who truely follow the teachings of Christ tend to be more liberal. It's just that a bunch of conservatives have highjacked the religion and tried to make liberals appear unworthy. Who are you going to believe is what it boils down to. I don't think that there is anything wrong with Christianity with the right interpretation.

[JohnKleeb]

4. Christianity is such a diverse faith too

My family has never had any thing to do with fundies.

[pauliedangerously]

6. That's just it....

If it's subject to interpretation, and such a wide range of interpretation, what good is it?

[WilliamPitt]

8. "If it's subject to interpretation...what good is it?"

I assume you have never studied philosophy, political science or literature.

[pauliedangerously]

14. That would be an incorrect assumption

But please, go on.

[Maddy McCall]

15. Hmmm...looks like that went right over your head.

:shrug:

[pauliedangerously]

21. OOOPS, you're right; it did

Okay....I didn't make a very good point.

It's not just a matter of interpretation. Philosophy and politics don't employ supernatural scare tactics to make their points; instead they use logic and reason, and they don't claim to be the final word, or the word of the creator, or make empty promises like eternal life in paradise.

Thanks for keeping me on my toes!!



:)

[Maddy McCall]

45. You are saying that politics is about logic and reason???

That's new to me. Perhaps you mean the sciences. Politics, though? Uh uh.

[pauliedangerously]

56. Uh uh?

That's a pretty weak argument...sounds like something GWB would say.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

57. Actually something GWB does do is think himself better than others based

on the faiths they choose or choose not to accept. Kind of like you are doing at the moment...

[pauliedangerously]

64. I would never presume to think what others think.

I haven't made any suggestion whatsoever that I am better than anyone else. Moreover, I doubt that GWB even believes in God; he is using "faith" as a tool to manipulate people.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

65. Yes you seem to think that atheists could never do the things fundies do

That seems to be an "Im better than they are" claim. By your own admission GWB isn't doing what he is doing based on faith, he is doing it based on secular reasons.

[Maddy McCall]

61. Non sequiter much?

[JohnKleeb]

50. Really, its not the scare tactics that made me christian

It's the belief that good deeds are the right thing to do, that we should help those in need, and yes that there is a heaven.

[pauliedangerously]

59. That may be true for you...

But the "fear of God" exists nontheless. I've met hundreds of people who wouldn't DARE express disbelief in God in fear of going to Hell.

[Maddy McCall]

60. hyperbole much?

[pauliedangerously]

67. Got Jesus?

[Maddy McCall]

72. Ad hominem much?

[Droopy]

10. I really don't know. I'm an atheist.

But I agree that Jesus was a kind, loving, liberal man. With a few conservative stances. And that is the correct interpretation. All those asshole fundie polititians and preachers are just on a power trip to promote a more conservative agenda and to keep themselves in power.

[jdj]

9. Um, can you people steal your faith back from the interlopers???

Any day now...

Ohterwise, stop making excuses for them.

[Droopy]

24. Then you agree that Christianity practiced correctly

is a peace loving religion. I'm sure that people who practice the way Christ tought can't help it that there are others that practice in an incorrect way. I'll bet that they are doing what they can do.

[jdj]

29. Well I was raised a Christian, but the kind that y'all are scared of.

I don't want to hear they can't help it. I want to hear them do something about it.

Because it's so lame, like hearing a little kid playing monopoly whine about how someone isn't playing by the rules.

[JohnKleeb]

31. well I agree with you that we should try to stop the fundie influx in

churches but it doesnt end just like that, remember Falwell and Robertson weren't up and public in a day, they built from the ground up.

[jdj]

39. By billionaires like Moon, et al, who also own the press.

The time has come today, though.

[JohnKleeb]

44. We're not all billionaires and Reverend Moon is a cult leader

[jdj]

46. Um, did you misread my post? Moon is a billionaire donor to LaHaye

Falwell, Poppy Bush, etc, etc.

That's one more ignorant assumption of the masses, that all that money isn't somehow influencing policy.

[JohnKleeb]

51. Sorry I am tired and I make reading mistakes

Its just really goddamn hard to take back a whole religion after so much corrupiton of faith and consider the diversity of this religion.

[jdj]

55. You are fighting SO MUCH MONEY! That is the true evil.

It's really a David and Goliath thing.

[JohnKleeb]

58. not just money, numbers

You can't expect us to take back our whole religion in a day, its not that simple.

[JohnKleeb]

28. Do tell me

Do you realize how diverse Christianity really is, there are many, many different kinds of faiths. Heck in Catholicism, there's even different branches of that. We do what we can.

[jdj]

30. All the more reason for y'all to get together and kick their asses.

what're ya skeered of?

the fate of the world depends on it now.

It's time to stop turning cheeks, ya only got 2. (or 4 depending on how ya look at it) we're way past that now.

[WilliamPitt]

7. "Could atheists do this?"

One word: Stalin.

P.S. I am a Christian.

[jdj]

11. yeah, but he happened after a monarchy when

the population of mostly peasants thought they were going to get a better deal.

We have the highest standard of living in the world, so what is our excuse?

(My pet theory is child abuse, but people aren't ready for that reality yet. They are just getting used to the fact that the people they used to mock, fundies, have amassed enough political power to end life on this planet as we know it,all the while they were making Ernest Aingsley jokes.)

[pauliedangerously]

12. Stalin was a dictator...

I'm referring to the usurping of this country.

Try again.

[WilliamPitt]

19. You're refering to a ruling caste with no regard for human life

and claiming that only Christians (or other religious types) could be this way.

I say again: Stalin.

If 2+2=4 logic doesn't grab you, I assume you're just out to pick a fight. If so, gas face.

[JVS]

27. He shoots, he scores. Topping off with a "Gas face"

Well done :-)

[jdj]

36. I hate it when people make jokes I don't understand.

Gas face?

I think this whole thing is a big Daddy/Stockholm syndrome-thing, we's a still a tryin' to love that big brutal butt-bustin' Daddy, so you're right in pointing out that it isn't religion, it's an inherent coping mechanism in human nature...denial, dissassociation,etc. Oh for the day when humanity values children enough to really examine this.

edit: I just read a book on Stalin from an American who went there and went to the camps in Siberia, etc, and he interview a couple of people who to this day are Stalin groupies and defend him to the death. It's all psyche-logical.

[pauliedangerously]

32. I'm not trying to pick a fight at all

I'm making a point here that this supposedly benign thing is being used to manipulate and destroy others.

The fact is, Christianity is based on falsehoods. Just because the protagonist of the NT was a great fellow doesn't mean that he really existed. Further, the story of his coming about is pure fiction. His resurrection is pure fiction. Creating fish from nothing is pure fiction.

People are goaded into believing all of these outrageous falsehoods because the protagonist was a great guy.

What could be more wrong? We have a growing population that cannot distinguish between reality and fiction because of this great thing you call Christianity.

[OneBlueSky]

13. it's not true Christians who are doing it . . .

it's pseudo-Christians . . . or Christianoids, if you prefer . . . any relationship to the teachings of JC are purely coincidental . . . if they exist at all . . .

[Pithlet]

16. Yes. I agree.

To all of DU: Let's please all come to a consensus about what we should call these people, so that we can continue to criticize and fight against them without "Oh poor persecuted Christians!"

Jeez people. Whatever you call these nuts, they are very dangerous. Instead of berating us, join us in fighting these wackos. I don't care if they call themselves Christians, they need to be stopped.

[Behind the Aegis]

18. YES!

Great idea! A new name! My fingers hurt from typing so much about how it is not ALL Christians being criticized! Just those who make our lives a living Hell!

Brightest Blessings!

[qnr]

20. I agree, friggn' Christians, couldn't they have a shorter name?

Or fundamentalists, or Christian conservatives, whatever we're gonna call them - lets make it shorter.


I'm kidding, I'm kidding....

[Behind the Aegis]

23. how about we call them...

IANS! That is what they seem like to me. Why IANS? Because they left out Christ! They do not follow His teachings nor adhere to His beliefs! I think IANS is a good desorption!

:)

Brightest Blessings!

[qnr]

25. Sounds fine to me :)

[Pithlet]

37. Hey! My son is named Ian

We can't be bashing Ians, now. :)

[qnr]

41. Kinda sounds like a band... "Bashing Ians" n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

42. OK...OK...OK!!!

How about *IANS? The * would show that something is missing...mainly "Christ" from the equation. IS that OK!??! :)

Brightest Blessings!

(BTW...been reading your other posts...you crack me up!)

[jdj]

49. I like to type Chri$tian$ to make a point.

But it is pronounced the same, just a little cha-ching behind it.

[pauliedangerously]

17. Ah yes, the old "TRUE" Christian argument

Never met one who didn't think he/she was a true one.

[Zomby Woof]

22. This non-dogmatic atheist

Has a problem with pseudointellectual flamebait.

[Maddy McCall]

26. Ooooo....mega slap!

:thumbsup: ZW.

[madrchsod]

35. shit i just fell for it

oh well thanks for reminding me...but i still stand for what i said

[pauliedangerously]

40. Then why did you throw a stick into it? eom

[madrchsod]

33. they are not Christians

i`m getting really fuck`n tired of people using "the problem with Christianity" and thinking all Christians or better said, believers in Christ`s teachings, as some kind of disease upon the land. i find it insulting to lump me and others on this board who understand that real Christians are not like those who defile the name and teachings of Christ. i personally would like to live my life closer to his teachings but i can`t because i`m human. to those scum who use Christ to enrich themselves at the expense of others i hope you rot in their your own personal hell. `

[Droopy]

38. Preach it brother

Nothing like the righteous anger of a true Christian.

[Djinn]

48. people are shits

and are capable of massive violence and brutality regardless of the colour of their God or whether or not they beleive in one at all.

That said I don't know how people have decided that the fundies are distorting Christianity (or whatever religion) and that the peace loving turn the other cheek types are REAL Christians.

From my reading the Bible is a little hazy and is riddled with contradictions (the Old and New Testament and the Koran all have thuis problem) so maybe it's the hellfire ones that have it right and the rest have it wrong, I think it's a bit presumptious to label your own beliefs as "true" Christianity/Judaism/Islam etc.

[Spider Jerusalem]

34. You should have a problem with humanity, instead.

ANY ideology can lead to some seriously fucked-up things. One only has to look at the past century of human history to see the havoc wrought by ideologues, and not even Christian ideologues at that. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and all the others...it's not just Christianity that's the problem.

[JVS]

43. Nobody cares that you have a problem with Christianity

Just letting you know.

[jdj]

47. Everybody should have a problem with Christianity at this point.

Christians especially, since our whole foreign policy is being committed in the name of Jesus Christ. If true Christians are okay with this, then fuck me.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

52. Nice Flamebait: ANY ideology taken to extremes will lead to destruction

And what I have a problem with is people trying to show how much better they are than everyone else because of their "beliefs". Just because your belief is "atheist" do you think that makes you better than someone coming into the lounge and saying "The problem I have with atheists is that their philosophy is completely wrong and they are the root of all evil in the world."

[JohnKleeb]

53. agreed!

[qnr]

62. Doesn't bother me a bit,

just another eeeeevil Christian ragging on me.

Phffffft

Just kidding, technically, I'm a lot more offended by someone unfairly claiming I'm insulting their religion than I ever would be by someone insulting my lack of one :shrug:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

63. Not insulting the religion

Insulting the people. People do horrible things regardless of religion. There are all kinds of extremists that do horrible things to get their point across. To claim that one type of people is better than another is pure crap. It's wrong if Christians do it to atheists and it's wrong if atheists do it to Christians...etc.

[qnr]

66. Yes, but

as I mentioned in the "I know nice Christians" thread, you practically have to narrow the group down some, even if you are calling them "carbon based lifeforms" but you do it hoping that people know that you aren't saying that it is true of all carbon based lifeforms.

How far can you narrow it down? Even members of the same physical church will generally act at least slightly differently.

I do understand your point. But some things just upset an individual more than others. In this case, the something that set someone off involved a segment of people claiming Christianity.

Edit: Added last paragraph, corrected typo.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

68. There are extremists in other religions

Wouldn't it be more prudent to "narrow the field down" to "religious extremists" rather than "Christians"?

[qnr]

69. Maybe, but harder to type. Just kidding, but

you don't always carefully pick your words (though we should), especially when upset.


Edit: "you" in the general sense, of course

[SemiCharmedQuark]

70. Definitely

I completely understand. But the poster should have rephrased than rather than let this flamebait go on.

Thanks for a good discussion qnr
:hi:

[qnr]

71. Thank you, you too :)

[MatrixEscape]

54. Bigotry works

both ways. I think that extending tolerance to intolerant people is a better way to go, when possible. Why become just like that which you detest. There are other ways to go about dealing with a problem.

If you look into the history of the Religious Right, you might get more insight into it. A little research goes a long way.

I don't see how blaming the Fundies or being angry at them is useful. The GOP and the Fundies were being opportunistic. They jumped on a situation that I believe was created by Liberals, Democrats, Moderates, etc. Nobody cared, and they did the hard work and got what they wanted.

I agree that they are worthy of concern. I think they can be pushed back politically, but only with awareness and effort. Maybe this will be a lesson to people that, even if you have to chose the lessor of two evils, apathy creates a vacuum that someone else will fill!

Stay active, open your eyes, and be poltically involved. Then you won't have to resent those who do.