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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 03:21 PM
Original message
Mac Users *gloating* Thread
Today is the day that, after 10 years or more of being told to get real computers, we get to sit back and calmly smile while our PC using friends deal with dozens - in some cases hundreds - of virus disseminating emails.

"If you can't say anything nice, come sit here by me."
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think it's okay for us to gloat...
we Mac users get screwed all the time in downloadable software on the internet, because a lot of the time, they don't bother to make a version for the Mac OS. Also, the average computer store doesn't carry anything that's Mac compatible, so we have to find special Mac stores. Damn right I'm gloating! :D
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ChompySnack Donating Member (612 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Mac's Rock
I've been writing software for the Mac since 1985 and still do.

Shameless plug... check out my stuff at:

http://www.earthbrowser.com
http://www.cosmosaver.com
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Thanks!
Edited on Sat Sep-20-03 03:41 PM by liberalmuse
I use Windows at work all day and it truly sux. It really is a joke. We can't do certain things, like we have to exit programs veeee-ry carefully, and dismiss several windows before actually quitting, or we'll have to re-boot. This includes the friggin' 'Explorer' window! I get error messages in so many programs, for no good reason, either, so I have to re-boot. A couple weeks ago, we were all having to shut down at least 2x a day and boot back up. Needless to say, I LOVE my Mac! I've never owned any other brand of computer.
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The Zanti Regent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. My Mac is the Office's Fire Department
At work we have Microsuck and Dell Hell. Of course, they got cheap with the anti-virals so when the system went down for the BIG PRESENTATION, I plugged my powerbook into the Sony Big Screen and saved the day.

Management still bitches that I use my Powerbook at work. In one ear and out the other!
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amber dog democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
40. right on
I have a lame white box using NT at work - and I get all sorts of error messages due to our lame databases. Have a version of out look that is downn right primative compared to my Entourage for Macs... thank god I havy my 14" combo drive iBook on my desk as well.... when all else fails it does not plus it is so easier to ues.

Macs at home too. Never any virus problems.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
70. Yeah, your software gets high marks everywhere.
Way to go. Other favorites are Tex-Edit, Meteorologist, FINK, and Mi.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
71. Mac software
http://www.macupdate.com/ a favorite
http://versiontracker.com/ an addiction for some. Has Windose stuff too
http://osx.hyperjeff.net/ Jeff's a good guy. His links page is a good resource. Over 8,000 titles
http://fink.sourceforge.net/index.php great source of UNIX/Linux apps.
http://osx.freshmeat.net/ some UNIX ports
http://www.creativemac.com/HTM/HomeSet1.htm get your Photoshop plugins.

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Girlfriday Donating Member (570 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. I always prefered MACs'
definitely more user friendly, and innovative but it always seemed the rest of the world were on PCs'.
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amber dog democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
43. only at work
and I still keep an iBook up and running - I never had to learn anything about Windows until this year.
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redwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. I love my Mac!
But I never gloat. Computer karma will even get Mac users!
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mark0rama Donating Member (930 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #3
94. Agreed, gloating will get you nowhere
Use what you like, like what you use.

mark0rama
Mac user since 1986.
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. I have a PC at home
But when I began j-school everything was mac...MAC rules. I love it. Who said that qoute?
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. I Think it Was Either
May West or Dorothy Parker
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stanwyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #14
66. I think it was Teddy's Roosevelt's daughter
Alice. But I could be wrong.
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DavidDvorkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thousands of the things every day
in my case.

But you know, if the Mac were as widely used as the PC, the virus writers would be attacking it just as vigorously.

To which Mac users tend to reply that Windows makes it easier for virus writers. Perhaps, but that's not relevant. The virus writers would put in the extra effort. The real problem is the vandal mentality.
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Atlant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
28. Sorry, you're wrong.
There are basic differences between real operating systems (like
Unix, the basis for MacOS/X) and toy operating systems (like
Win/95, Win/98, and Win/ME).

(And Win/NT, Win/2000, and Win/XP live in a weird hybrid
world, with a good underlying operating system rendered
Swiss Cheese in the name of appplication compatibility.)

It's NOT just a question of "smarter virus writers
could write Mac viruses too". Many of the attack techniques
simply are totally ineffective on MacOS/X (as well as any
other real operating system).

Atlant
(Who used to write O/S's for a living)


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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #28
41. look up your history
Unix has had more hacks and exploits written for it than any other OS, it's just that most of them have been stamped out by now.

I will concede that with OLE, M$ shot themselves in the foot, but I believe these virus issues will be seen as growing pains 10 years from now.
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Atlant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #41
81. I doubt your stats. But, regardless, we live in the present, not the past.
And you have to deal with the viruses that will infect your machine
today, and will have no effect on my various machines.

But nice try at a strawman; thanks for playing.

Atlant
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amber dog democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
45. Not so
Until OS/X there was no command line interface for the Mac OS.

and even now with UNIX as the core of the Mac OS, it makes it much harder. Besides with all the Windows apps with bloated code, it begs you to write viruses. Microsoft is well known for defending weak products.
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stanwyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #45
67. You are absolutely correct
hackers can't get into Macs. It's easy to get into Windows...there are holes everywhere.
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DrBB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. Let's state the standard rejoinder, just to get it out of the way
Edited on Sat Sep-20-03 03:34 PM by DrBB
"If everyone had a Mac, there'd be a bazillion viruses for Macs out there!"

Some truth to it. On t'other hand OSX is built on top of Unix, and Unix is much more secure and resistant than Microsoft anything. A significant proportion of major webservers are Unix boxes, so where are the viruses successfully attacking them? Answer: why go for the hard target when you can go for the easy one. "Those who refuse to employ the Unix OS are doomed to reinvent it," as a friend once put it. Glad that Mac finally came around--would have done themselves a major favor, economically, if they hadn't been so stingy and close-fisted about their OS early on.

Gotta love OSX. Got my slick gui and editing tools, at the same time I'm running Apache webserver and PHP/MySQL for db stuff on my laptop. Woo hoo!

on edit: I see I wasn't quick quick enough on the "submit" button, DavidD! :hi:
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. NYT Letters - Rebuttal to "No Viruses Because Mac is Unpopular"
Edited on Sat Sep-20-03 03:49 PM by Crisco
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/18/technology/circuits/18POGUE-EMAIL.html


* Windows comes with five of its ports open; Mac OS X comes with all of them shut and locked. (Ports are back-door channels to the Internet: one for instant-messaging, one for Windows XP’s remote-control feature, and so on.) These ports are precisely what permitted viruses like Blaster to infiltrate millions of PC’s. Microsoft says that it won’t have an opportunity to close these ports until the next version of Windows, which is a couple of years away.

* When a program tries to install itself in Mac OS X or Linux, a dialog box interrupts your work and asks you permission for that installation -- in fact, requires your account password. Windows XP goes ahead and installs it, potentially without your awareness.

* Administrator accounts in Windows (and therefore viruses that exploit it) have access to all areas of the operating system. In Mac OS X, even an administrator can’t touch the files that drive the operating system itself. A Mac OS X virus (if there were such a thing) could theoretically wipe out all of your files, but wouldn’t be able to access anyone else’s stuff -- and couldn’t touch the operating system itself.


Not entirely true: you can go in using line commands on the Unix portion, and there's a Net Info manager as well.

There's another point made, which I'm also not sure is absolutely true:

* No Macintosh e-mail program automatically runs scripts that come attached to incoming messages, as Microsoft Outlook does.

If they mean 'no Apple' program, maybe. But I'm pretty sure you can set Nutscrape mail to view javascripts.


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dani Donating Member (640 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. I'm not sure about the ports thing
Try "ipfw list" (in the Terminal - do it as sudo) on a freshly installed OS and it's wide open by default. Can someone knowledgeable about networking explain what this means exactly? Doesn't this mean all ports are open? Sorry, I'm dumb when it comes to networking.
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ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
8. I switched on June 6, 2003 and have not looked
back. I have both a MAC and a winBLOWS laptop. The blows machine is two years old and the Mac..there are not enough good and positive words in the English language to describe my Mac.

It is reliable in that it has NEVER required rebooting, unlike Blows which requires rebooting if I run more than one application at a time (I have 384 MB RAM in it).

I LOVE MY MAC :loveya:

I LOVE MY MAC :loveya:

I LOVE MY MAC :loveya:

Virus, what is a virus?

:bounce:
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. I Use Linux, My PC Works Just Fine
Thank You!
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amber dog democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
46. PCs are still lame
unless you are a gamer into overclocking.
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xJlM Donating Member (955 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
47. Same here
I've had to learn a little, but I put together this pc with all the neat hardware that would cost a fortune if it were even available on a Mac. I'm overclocking an XP 2400 to around 2600, and running an ATI Raedon 9000. Put that together with 6-channel Dolby surround and as soon as I can figure out how to make Mplayer work, I'll have most everything I could want on a pc. And I've yet to hear of the first virus for Linux, despite all the predictions of gloom and doom I keep hearing from Windows users.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #9
72. fine, nothing wrong with Linux. I have a lot of Linux software running
on my Mac. On the Mac you use FINK, a deb tool to download and build the software. It's pretty good. I have in the past run Gnome and KDE on my machine, but have settled for a few Linux apps like BlueFish, Amaya, GIMP, and Zoinks. I do miss the KDE games and Konqueror, but Safari is at its core Konqueror. BTW, Apple has contributed to the Konqueror project, honoring the license.

I am a big fan of YellowDog Linux.
http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/
http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/news/2003-08-06.shtml

find an old iMac and install YellowDog.
http://www.edmunds-enterprises.com/linux/index.php Good cheap Linux discs fast, friendly service.
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
10. Gloating here!
:hi:

I have an iMac with a SuperDrive and a Gateway networked and sharing cable access. Guess which computer I'm always on?
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ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. My blows machine is a Gateway as well...
I am generally on the Mac unless my Pocket PC, which I got BEFORE I left the dark side, needs synced.

Hey have I told y'all that I LOVE MY MAC?!


:bounce:
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
42. Gateways aren't fair comparison machines
Think cheap Mac knock-offs.
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amber dog democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #42
48. yeah but
gateways are hell to do memory upgrades for sometimes,
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. that's true, because like I said, Gateways
shouldn't represent PCs. They are the Yugos of the PC world, absolute cheapest components possible, even the drive cables leave no room for expansion.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #52
74. They use cheap stuff because they a bleeding from a thousand cuts
I am amazed they have lasted this long. Unlike Apple, they don't have $4 Billion cash on hand.
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elfin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
13. Macs are the BEST!
Am on my third - a G3 "Wallstreet" powerbook. The people at the Apple Store love it - apparently it was the last Mac with the colored logo. When I took it in for help getting airport to work, it drew a small crowd.

Still have my little Mac Classic and Quadra. Why, I do not know, but I just cannot part wwith them.... yet.

I get all those Emails from friends warning me about the latest virus and I laugh and laugh.

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gkdmaths Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
15. you know.. I think I'll start gloating soon
Edited on Sat Sep-20-03 03:48 PM by gkdmaths
I own 6 PCs that I build myself over the years - from 800MHz to 2GHz blah blah blah.

Yesterday, I finished a six month research project (whew), which I did my data calculation, of course, on my 1.8GHz Win2000 laptop. Loaded up with 512 Megs mem, I thought I was rocking in the middle of my iterations, switching between applications and otherwise overheating the CPU. i thought i was flying!

My research partner, OTOH, was on her Mac sys9 doing the same iterations, but with a different dataset.

she finished days before me.

I really have very little experience with Macs, but after watching how fast her machines kicked ass - I am seriously getting one!

on EDIT: any recommendations from you guys?
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ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I am partial to laptops because of their
portability. Apple just came out with new 15 inch powerbooks. You should check them out. I have a 12 inch powerbook with superdrive and LOVE it.

:bounce:
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gkdmaths Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. She has an "iPod"
that is really cool. I like the idea that she can put a movies on it, plug her camera into it, listen to music while riding to school, and otherwise transfer huge amounts of data between her home machine and the lab.

it was a real bandwidth saver for the college.

I think I want to start with a desktop machine, though. But I know nothing about the Mac architecture or system environment.

but I'm hooked, I think. :)
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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #17
77. New powerbooks are 17 inch
Edited on Sun Sep-21-03 10:41 AM by Billy Burnett
"Apple just came out with new 15 inch powerbooks."

17 inch powerbooks too.

http://www.apple.com/powerbook/
Choose from three new ultrafast models: small, medium or epic
Starting from just $1599, the new PowerBook family gives you power in a choice of three ultrafast portables. Whether you prefer the ultra-compact 12-inch model, the coveted 15-inch powerhouse, or the stunning 17-inch beauty, every new PowerBook G4 is loaded with advanced capabilities. Like turbocharged PowerPC G4 processors, DVD-burning SuperDrive, the fastest speeds in wireless networking, and cutting-edge graphics.
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Atlant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. Any of the G4 powerbooks are sweet.
I bought my son a 12" for college and I just ordered the
brand-new 15" PowerBook for myself.

It will finally replace my still-very-sweet but somewhat
mechanically-broken down WallStreet (upon which I'm
typing at this very moment). The WallStreet will then
get some needed service and get right back to work.

Give serious thought to wireless networking (IEEE 802.11,
also known as "AirPort").

Atlant
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #15
75. the G5 Dual will peel the paint off your walls.
It is $3,000, but that is not much for a dual processor 64 bit workstation. The G5 is both a workstation and desktop.

Here's one suggestion.

http://www.computing.vt.edu/research_computing/terascale/

Pay attention to the detail on the inside of the computer.


Even the best PC on the market is not this sweet.
Not sure if they allow deep linking, but here goes.
http://www.apple.com/powermac/design.html

If not, just got to the main page and go from there.
http://www.apple.com/
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
19. Sorry to burst the collective bubble.
I run XP professional and I have had no virus issues, ever. Of course, I do keep my patches up-to-date, as well as run AV and Zone-Alarm. I also use Spamfighter on my Outlook program, so it keeps spam and mal-ware minimized.

But don't let me piss on your cornflakes....
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amber dog democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #19
49. that is why I prefer Macs
I don't have to do any of those things. Never have to worry about a virus, and XP is lame - I got trained on it once and was not very impressed.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #49
56. To each his own....
Hey, I've played around with Macs and thier OK, but I prefer my XP/PC based system. It's trouble-free and works slick for me.

For some strange reason, PC users don't start threads about how much they love their computers...I guess it's an Apple thing.
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Atlant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #56
83. Don't most PC users hate their computers? I know that...
Don't most PC users hate their computers? I know that among my various
workstations, I'd MUCH PREFER to be working on any of my Macs
or Sunstations rather than my Win2K Dell, although my wife's Win98SE
Sony Vaio isn't too painful to use.

Atlant
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #83
89. Most? Have no way of knowing.
But if most hated their PC, I'd expect that Apple sales would dominate the personal computer market segment.

I just know that I'm delighted with my system integration and performance...maybe I should start my own "I love my PC thread, I guess".

Anyway, I'm happy that you guys love your Macs, I really am. I just don't particularly care for all of the insults to users that don't share your passion for Macs.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #56
88. There used to be two websites...both of them down now
One was called "I Hate Macs."

The other "I Hate Windows."

Both of them were made by PC users.
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stanwyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #19
68. Please don't send us your graphics files
the MAC files work great with all our output devices (heidelberg press, indigo, fuji printers, large format). But non-MAC files are very problematic.
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myomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
21. Got a new 1GHz 17Ó iMac about 6 weeks ago, am in computer heaven
My wife got my G4 Cube(still love it) and we use one cable modem connected with an ethernet cable. Gonna get a speeding ticket, I imagine.
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
22. I've used Linux and Windows for years.....still no viruses.
I don't use Outlook or Outlook Express for my email, so generally speaking I never have much to worry about. There have only been a few viruses that haven't been spread by email (blaster being the most famous of the non-email related viruses). Even if I got a virus, not using an email client that uses the windows or outlook address book to store contacts, it's unlikely I could spread them.

I always think it's funny that people gloat over having a mac, but as gamer, I like Windows and a smart user can avoid viruses with little to no trouble.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Well put!
I use Windows and emulate Windows in Linux. Smart users can easily avoid this stuff.
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amber dog democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
51. wish we had you
at the IT support person at my place of work instead of the incompetant folk we have been using.

I think you are the exception to the rule for windows users.

I just don't get Microsoft.
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WillParkinson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
23. Yeah, but we get MUCH better commercials!
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Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
25. I tell those who give me grief about my Mac . .
that I don't have time to learn a "real computer" -- I'm too busy making money with my Mac!

I do graphics and, no matter what people tell you, all my vendors prefer Mac files. They can do the PC work but Mac files remain more pleasurable to output.

I've owned Macs since the late '80s and I'll never willfully change. I'm in the market now for a new G5. It'll be my first foray into OSX. My teenage daughter's Mac runs it, so I'm not a total novice, however, the demands of a graphics workstation are considerably different than those of a highschool girl's laptop, so the move to OSX should be interesting. If there's anyone reading this who's working OSX now, I'd appreciate it if you PM'd me. I'm looking for answers to some specific concerns and would like to discuss these with anyone who has a little time to offer. Thanks.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
26. Let's just suppose people shell out thousands of dollars to switch
The destructive freaks will create Mac viruses.

I wouldn't gloat.

Besides, a PC with Linux costs much, much less than a G5 Mac. As we live in a society where "the bottom line" means more than everything else, the Mac will soon be history as while a $3000 Mac is pretty decent, some of its components are pathetic considering the price and a $1250 PC will make up for what that Mac lacks (except CPU but the CPU isn't the single most important component in a computer these days). :gloat:
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Atlant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. RE: "Create Mac viruses" -- Easier said than done. See above. (NT)
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Atlant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. Here's the top-end Mac configuration. Tell us what it would cost...
> Besides, a PC with Linux costs much, much less than a G5 Mac. As we live in a
> society where "the bottom line" means more than everything else, the Mac will soon
> be history as while a $3000 Mac is pretty decent, some of its components are
> pathetic considering the price and a $1250 PC will make up for what that Mac lacks
> (except CPU but the CPU isn't the single most important component in a computer
> these days).

Okay, smart guy, Here's the top-end Mac configuration. Tell us what
it would cost as a "name brand" (NOT "White Box) PC configuration.
Don't forget to include all the high-performance I/O including the
DVD burner.

$2,999.00

Dual 2GHz PowerPC G5
1GHz frontside bus
512K L2 cache/processor
512MB DDR400 128-bit SDRAM
Expandable to 8GB SDRAM
160GB Serial ATA
SuperDrive
Three PCI-X Slots
ATI Radeon 9600 Pro
64MB DDR video memory
56K internal modem
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #32
50. OK, so it's not a 'brand-name' box
but many brand name boxes are the same parts with a custom case.

AMD Opteron 64Bit 1.8Ghz (2) 1652
AMD Opteron Motherboard 519
1 MEG L2 cache/processor
Expandable to 12GB DDRAM
Built-in Gigabit Ethernet Card
160GB Serial ATA 109
DVD Burner 108
CDRW EIDE 54x32x54 34
3 PCI-X slot 64-bit
ATI Radeon 9600 Pro -128MB- 124
56k Modem (who cares?) 6
Case 60
Power Supply 600W 30
Keyboard 25
Mouse 15
Total 2622



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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #50
78. Hey DS1, you forgot to include the floppy drive
:evilgrin:
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Atlant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #50
80. Wow! You saved a whole big $373 for a "White-Box" PC
I'm impressed. BTW, did it come with a Windows license
hidden in one of those line items, or will that eat into
your enormous savings?

Atlant
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amber dog democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #26
53. folks have been saying that
for years. The rumors of the Macs pending demise are greatly exagerated.

Do you know of any other company that does any real creative and inventive design beside Apple? Neither do I.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #26
76. Poeple have been predicting the death of Apple for decades.
You can get a very good Mac for under $1,000. My wife has the eMac and it is very nice. I am running an old G4 dual 450. Not a bad machine. I have an old iMac on a crossover. I use it for storage. Thinking about restoring it to Linux.
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Zech Marquis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
29. after getting through Isabel
My iMac is kicking ass again with Mac OS X :evilgrin: One note, I'll bu either an iBook or even a Powerbook so I won't lsoe so much downtime again. The Apple Store has some great refub deals, so look there for some ibooks and 12 PBs going for cheap.

Hey, don't blame me for M$ wrting crappy OS software!
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #29
44. was your iMac outside giving Isabel directions?
*snicker*
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Zech Marquis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #44
59. hehehehehe
yep, up until the power went out, I gave Isabel the GPS coordinates to Unca Dick's bunker :evilgrin: hope Crashcart's floating out to sea like Lnaley AFB is (the whole base was submerged!)
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:30 AM
Response to Reply #29
92. Correct about the refurbs at the Apple Store
Anyone interested in a new or very recent Mac for a bargain price should check out the Special Deals section of the Apple Store at Apple.com. They have refurb prices that even the bargain retailers can't match. My friend bought a refurb and was told the refurb standards were extremely stringent. He has had no problems.

Usually the shipping is free, but sales tax does apply.
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hueyfreeman Donating Member (26 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
33. Bill Gates is a Great American, don't Support Windows Terrorism
Bill Gates is a Great American....Any American with littie can arrord to buy and use a computer....No thanks to the High early price of Macs


Don't Support Windows Terrorism, If you Gloat you are supporting these cyber terrorists. These people steal from innocent people.
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Atlant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Yeah, right. (NT)
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amber dog democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #33
55. Microsoft is still the 500 pound
gorilla. Just another monopoly that stifles developement and competition.


cultural dominance is not a good thing. No I don't support viruses.
but I do gloat when friends emai me about yet another outbreak.
I am not at all affected except on the lame windows box I am compelled to use at work.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
34. OK, I don't want to get into...
the Mac vs PC debate, but I can't help wondering how Macs would be immune to getting the emails in the first place.

They're just spit out like any other spam, and your email addy has nothing to do with your OS.

Software choices and basic protections have stopped any infection on my PC, but I still get 50 or so of those damned MS warnings a day.

I do like Macs, btw, and should I have a couple of spare bucks around, I'd like to get one, but virus immunity has little to do with it.



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Atlant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Oh, Macs get the mail. It's just that the viruses are...
Oh, Macs get the mail. It's just that the viruses are totally ineffective
at infecting the Macs.

The viruses (etc.) depend on holes in the Windows operating systems;
these holes simply don't exist on MacOS/X. So we can receive the mail
with no ill effects.

Same thing happens when I receive the mail on my Solaris systems.
Or on VMS. Or MVS. Or any "real" operating system.

Atlant
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #35
54. Yup, sort of...
Viruses don't worry me all that much, it's the annoyance of a couple of hundred emails on top of the usual spam.

As far as OS's go, I'm one of those that prefer they be seen and not heard. And not seen so much. It's the apps that count for doing whatever work I have to do on this thing.

Linux, and other Unix/BSD variants are all very interesting, but GIMP, OO, and the rest are very nice, but don't cut it for some of what I do. Well, OK, I suppose I could actually live with GIMP if I had to. Windoze sucks rocks, and I'd love to dump it, but that won't be today.

A Mac would do just about everything I do, but I'm not sure it's cost effective. The only commercial software I use a regularly is WordPerfect, and they don't have anything close but Word and/or a DTP package. Even the latest OO won't work on a Mac, and the previous version is an iffy install. And, I might have to spring for the full Photoshop to get what I get now on a few cheaper or free apps.

Most everything else I use is free- or dirtcheap- ware. And some things, like Opera, are stuck in an older version for other OS's.

Then, there's things like cheap ISA storage oscilloscope boards...
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #54
82. Besides Photoshop on my Mac I have Painter, Colorit!, and GIMP
Colorit! is pretty good for $49.95 and it takes PS filters. They don't have a OSX version, but it works great in the classic mode. I can do pretty much what I want. Until I upgraded to PS7, Colorit was my choice for text.

For word processing AppleWorks is just fine for me. If I need something stronger, I can go to UNIX apps.

BTW, take a look at Scribus. http://web2.altmuehlnet.de/fschmid/
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #82
87. Now, that's interesting...
OO 1.3 is limited in typesetting ability, which is why I use WordPerfect, which has enough for my needs.

Admittedly, Appleworks or any other reasonably decent editor would do for 90% of my stuff, it's just that last 10%...

"Real Soon Now" I'll check out Scribus on the Linux box over there in the corner. Thanks for the tip.

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LightTheMatch Donating Member (572 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
37. Ahhh yeah!
Guess what I have on order:




Dual 2GHz... coming sometime in October! }(
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Zech Marquis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. there you go my friend
that is some serious heavy metal, a real monster of a machine! Juts wait until you see how fast it'll take your Photoshop/DVD buring stuff and luagh in your face"is that you've got?'
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LightTheMatch Donating Member (572 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Oh, I can't wait!
We're going to use it for everything from editing to print design to making TV commercials! It'll hardly ever have a down minute, and I'm sure it will pay for itself very quickly.
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
57. funny thing about macs
In order to upgrade one...um...you can't.

You have buy a whole new goddamned machine.

I recently went from 200 mgh, a 7 gig drive and 128 megs of RAM to 1 ggh, 40 gigs of space, and a gig of memory, and spent about $350 buying the parts on-line.

Say, how much *does* an Imac cost, anyay? :eyes:
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #57
63. Wrong About Upgrades
Wired had a fun story about what people were doing with their Cubes (now discontinued) a couple months back. As of some time ago, there was a processor available to turn our old PowerPCs into G3 or G4. Unless you've got an iMac or eMac you can put in different sound/graphics cards if you wish.

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Atlant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #57
84. Ahh, another popular Mac lie turns up.
Curious. The Macintosh PowerBook/G3 ("WallStreet")
that I'm typing on right now started life with 64MB,
an 8GB harddrive, and 10baseT wired Ethernet.

It now has USB, Firewire, IEEE802.11B wireless networking,
512MB of RAM and 80GB of disk.

Yeah, it's still running the same 300MHz PPC chip
that it was originally running, but upgrades are
available if I wanted one, but I'm never really CPU-
bound so I haven't bothered.

But the video isn't upgradeable, so I guess you're
right; my Mac isn't upgradeable. I should'a chucked
it out years ago. Ahh, maybe next time it gets a
virus, ehh? Of course, it's never had one, so I'm
not sure when that will be.

Atlant
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. okay, my bad
I thought my source was reliable on that issue. Now how much did it cost you to do that upgrade, and were you able to do it yourself ?
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Atlant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. The parts were industry-standard...
The parts to upgrade my PowerBook were perfectly-ordinary
parts, bought off-the shelf. I honestly don't remember the
prices, but they'd be identical to the parts for PC laptops.

So we have the SODIMMs, an IBM, err, now-bought-by-Hitachi
2-1/2" ATA disk drive, a Lucent WaveLAN wireless card, etc.

And yes, I did all the installs myself. The Cardbus cards
are obviously no problem, and the RAM and Disk are
accessed (on this PowerBook) by lifting the keyboard
and removing the processor heat sink. Well, the second
RAM DIMM slot actually requires removing the processor
daughter card, but No Big Deal if you're just a little nervy,
and I've done surface-mount repair and rework using
stereo microscopes, so I'm more than a little nervy when
it simply comes to unscrewing screws and swapping
FRUs. :-)

Seriously, Mac laptops are about as upgradeable as any
laptop. And since the transition to the PCIbus, Mac
mini-towers are about as upgradeable as any other
mini-tower. Your point is more accurate for the iMac
family of systems, but even there, the RAM and disk
are upgradeable in the usual fashion.

Atlant

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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #84
93. I love my WallStreet
Upgrades aside (and I'm thinking about sending in the CPU for the speed bump), it's a freakin' rock. I've bumped mine along, running GPS mapping software, in the passenger seat of my truck along dirt roads and pastures, watching the screen flop around, waiting for the hinge to give, or the thing to just up and say "screw you, put me back on a desk".

No problems, ever.

Barring a serious upgrade in the current lineup's "toughness" factor, I'll continue to try to run this black beauty into the ground. It's grandpa's hammer, that thing.
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Kellanved Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 06:13 AM
Response to Original message
58. I have to post these videos
And it's correct - A Mac is as good in driving one insane as any PC.
www.ancientspear.com/mac.wmv


http://www.hugi.is/hahradi/bigboxes.php?box_id=51208&f_id=247
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 07:26 AM
Response to Original message
60. But you still can't use FL Studio !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Edited on Sun Sep-21-03 08:25 AM by greyl
Which is all the reason to have at least one proper PC.

Mac rhymes with crack, so keep your distance kids. ;)












edit: added !!!!!!!!!!
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lanlady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
61. ex-Mac user, now want to return to the fold
When I send the computer I'm using now off to college with my daughter, I'm replacing it with a Mac. Keeping up with virus updates, patches, etc etc for the Windows platform has become a daily chore and I'm just plain tired of it.
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ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #61
62. Welcome back from the dark side
I am sure you will give a Mac a wonderfully loving home..

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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #61
64. Automatic updates
Edited on Sun Sep-21-03 09:19 AM by FlaGranny
for virus protection and OS updates daily at 3 in the morning work fine for me. I couldn't possibly afford a Mac. I'll have to stick with my old generic. My son built it for me and has upgraded it once. It has XP OS and runs 24/7 (unless I have to reboot to install a program on occasion). Never had a virus, NEVER get the virus e-mails or SPAM(that, I believe is due to filters at Bellsouth). My modem has a built-in firewall. Security tests run on my computer show it is invisible on the net. I can run any program I want. So I don't really see any need to change computers and that's good, because I couldn't afford to.

Edit: I use several programs for work - NONE work on a Mac.
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #64
69. Pick up Virtural PC
Improved to let your Mac run Windows applications more productively. Virtual PC supports both Mac OS X and Mac OS 9, so it's flexible enough to cater to every user. Virtual PC makes it easy to run Windows programs, access PC networks, use Windows-only Internet applications and share files with PC-based colleagues. With Version 6.1, those running the latest version of Jaguar will find an overall speed improvement of up to 25%. Users will experience a new Dock integration which delivers the ability to launch Windows applications directly from your Mac OS X Dock! Other new features include desktop mounting of drive images*, increased video RAM and automatic detection of USB printers.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/71402/wo/xppqcxUPXu2e3TCeQEN1CkTDbR2/2.4.0.5.10.11.6.13.0
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #69
73. But you still can't use FL Studio !!!!!!!!!!!!!! nt
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LeftPeopleFinishFirst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
65. I haven't got my mac set up to the internet yet
:(

Stuck on my PC for now.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
79. 12" PowerBook disassembled. Great pictures
of the internals of the 12" powerbook. Engineering is where Apple really shines.

http://www.kodawarisan.com/ug/PowerBook/index.html
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Rooktoven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
90. I use a g4 laptop for work--
but at home I'm purely slackware linux (running fluxbox). I have much more control over my user environment with linux running what ever window manager than I do with Aqua.

Linux, Mac, it's all good if you are MS free....
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Atlant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #90
95. There's a cool rumor circulating that says that...
There's a cool rumor circulating that says that Sun is going
to license the "Aqua" desktop from Apple and port it to Solaris.

(As you may know, Sun is in the midst of floundering around,
desktop-wise, having gone from OpenWindows to CDE/Motif towards
Gnu in the space of a very few years.)

I don't know if the rumor has any truth behind it, but I sure
do WISH it were true!

Atlant
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Susang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-03 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
91. Went Mac over 5 years ago and never looked back
Hated my husband's Windows based PC. Constantly crashed and was ridiculously hard to use. I was converted by my brother, who uses them in his laboratory (research scientist, doctor, etc) and would never consider anything else. My imac is old, but still viable and looks amazing. I hope I'll never have to buy another brand of computer.
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