How to put out the fire of "Flamebait"....

[TheDebbieDee]

I used to lurk at another site where "Flamebait" and troll posts were treated as follows:

The baiter or troller makes the explosive/controversial post and then that thread is quickly hi-jacked by several post(er)s about favorite recipes for chili, best color to wear on a sunny day, hammiest actor on the planet, or any number of other blase subjects.

The point being, that instead of feeding the troll by giving it the disruptive attention he/she seeks, we feed it lots of good vibes and happy feelings. And the hi-jacking posters have a good time, too. :-)

[mattclearing]

1. That's a great idea.

I like it, especially now that the mods are enforcing the name-calling rule on trolling flambaiting freepers. :)

[Wonk]

13. Nope, because each reply kicks the thread back to the top of page one. nt

[arwalden]

2. So How Do You Know When It's "Flamebait" Or Just A Controversial Topic?

[TheDebbieDee]

3. That's the beauty of responding with happy posts......

The "flamebaiters" are denied the attention they seek.

While posters with valid issues/topics don't get immediately flamed or insulted. It gives the poster a chance to rephrase their argument or better state their case before we brand them as freepers!

[arwalden]

6. I Don't Follow Your Logic

Upon whose authority do you determine who is and isn't a "flamebaiter"? Isn't that something that's best left to the mods and admins? Wouldn't it be best to simply click alert?

What if it's just a topic that you happen to disagree with and others may want to have a (heated) discussion about. Does that give you (or anyone) the right to hijack the thread with "good-vibes" and chili recipes or other off topic "happy" messages?

Isn't that still giving them attention? If you truly wanted to deny someone of the attention (you believe) they are seeking, it would make more sense to just say NOTHING. Walk away. Put them on ignore.

Passive-aggressive behavior like what you're encouraging would seem to be just as counterproductive as arguing with someone who seeks an argument.

And even though you're not explicitely CALLING or LABELING someone as a Freeper... wouldn't responding with a chili recipe be the equivalent? After awhile, people would learn that an off-topic inserted recipe response is something that we do to freepers. The effect is the same as saying "STFU Freeper!".

[TheDebbieDee]

8. Flamebait is in the eye of the beholder.....

It's left up to the reader to determine whether a post is flamebait or not - there are no hard and fast rules to determine flamebait.

It's giving the flamebaiters attention, yes. But not the kind of attention that they want.

A response about a chili recipe, or talk about the weather or any other blase subject is an action to take for those of us who would rather do something OTHER than WALK AWAY FROM or IGNORE the thread.

Also, it does not allow a freeper a chance to go running back to his/her board bragging and cutting and pasting parts of the thread and otherwise documenting the disruption he/she caused on DU.

And, I'm more than sure that the DU Mods and Admins will tell us to cut it out if they want us to stop.

[arwalden]

9. It Just Seems To Be A Rather Juvenile Approach...

and that the adult thing would be to ignore them or walk away (or even ALERT) on them.

>> It's left up to the reader to determine whether a post is flamebait or not - there are no hard and fast rules to determine flamebait. <<

So that makes it okay to hijack a thread by littering it with chili recipes? What if you're wrong? What if it's not a freeper? What if it's just an opinionated liberal who you happen to disagree with?

What gives you the right to shut down the dialog with off-topic chili recipes?

What gives you the right to essentially label someone as being a freeper (in your eyes) by responding with recipes? Why not just call him a freeper? It's all the same thing. Recipe responses will become the "code word" or the "code action" for telling those in-the-know that you think someone is a freeper/disruptor.

Nice. When will I be treated to the honor of one of your recipe replies? Then all your buddies will know that I'm a freeper/troll, eh?

>> Also, it does not allow a freeper a chance to go running back to his/her board bragging and cutting and pasting parts of the thread and otherwise documenting the disruption he/she caused on DU. <<

Huh? Wouldn't NO response accomplish the same thing? Isn't a response with chili recipes essentially saying to the alleged disruptor that you've reached your wit's end... and that you can't cope... and that you don't know how to handle him? It's an admission of defeat.

If "bragging rights" or evidence is what you're trying to deny the alleged flame baiter of, then silence will accomplish that. Otherwise your recipes and "good vibes" responses are enough to let him know that he's got your goat and rattled your cage. That doesn't sound like much of a victory to me.

It appears to me that your own self-control might be the problem. You feel that you "must" respond with something, but not with a substantive argument... so you want to post recipes.

That's the digital equivalent of sticking out your tongue. (Nyaah!)

>> And, I'm more than sure that the DU Mods and Admins will tell us to cut it out if they want us to stop. <<

Let's hope.

[TheDebbieDee]

10. Juvenile is in the eye of the beholder...

<<What gives you the right to shut down the dialog with off-topic chili recipes? >>

No one is shutting down any dialog. If someone wants to debate or discuss something with the poster, all they need to do is reply to the poster, in the same thread.

<<If "bragging rights" or evidence is what you're trying to deny the alleged flame baiter of, then silence will accomplish that. Otherwise your recipes and "good vibes" responses are enough to let him know that he's got your goat and rattled your cage.>>

If an engaging discussion by several posters of a chili recipe results from flamebait, how is this getting the goat of and rattling the cage of us DUers?

<<It appears to me that your own self-control might be the problem. You feel that you "must" respond with something, but not with a substantive argument... so you want to post recipes.>>

The idea is not about me or my self-control. The idea is about showing a freeper that they can't come to DU, drop an ideological bomb and then happily watch the meltdown of other posters as they rush to slap him down.

<<Isn't a response with chili recipes essentially saying to the alleged disruptor that you've reached your wit's end... and that you can't cope... and that you don't know how to handle him?>>

Replies about chili recipes would only tell the baiter that we would rather discuss chili than his/her topic.

BTW, my favorite color is blue. What's yours?

[arwalden]

15. No... Juvenile Behavior Is Always Juvenile Behavior

... no matter how you look at it.

>> No one is shutting down any dialog. If someone wants to debate or discuss something with the poster, all they need to do is reply to the poster, in the same thread. <<

Horseshit! I think it's a bit dishonest to claim that off-topic messages within a thread aren't disruptive. Such juvenile devices clutter up a thread that might not be a "troll" thread.

Such organized tactics are quite obvious and would essentially label someone whom YOU believe to be a disruptor. Such passive-aggressive replies have the same effect as calling someone a freeper or calling them a troll. --- And that's against the rules!

You avoided answering my question asking what makes you the authority on who is deserving of such a backhanded way to circumvent DU rules?

What you might consider to be "obviously" a freeper, might not be a freeper/troll at all. Maybe it's just someone who has an opinion that's contrary to an issue that you're emotional about. Does that give you the right to engage in that type of bullying and disruptive behavior?

Either argue your point or avoid the thread, or alert on it. Either someone is adult enough to be able to handle a heated discussion, or they are not. Either someone is adult enough to trust the moderators to do their job, or they are not. -- Which is it?

>> Replies about chili recipes would only tell the baiter that we would rather discuss chili than his/her topic. <<

You can do that via private messages. Or your silence would be just as effective.

>> The idea is not about me or my self-control. The idea is about showing a freeper that they can't come to DU, drop an ideological bomb and then happily watch the meltdown of other posters as they rush to slap him down. <<

He can just watch as children make inane replies letting him know that they aren't mature enough to walk away, or that they don't trust the mods, or that they don't have enough patience to wait for the mods to take action, or that they aren't smart enough to debate the issue on its merits and facts. Wow! Is that REALLY the message you want to send?

I'll bet that even if it *were* a genuine troll... he'd consider that to be a success and a direct hit whenever others could only reply with "bliss-ninny" replies.

>> If an engaging discussion by several posters of a chili recipe results from flamebait, how is this getting the goat of and rattling the cage of us DUers? <<

It confirms that the respondant is incapable of defending his convictions, or lacks the maturity to cope with disagreement in an adult manner. Sure sounds to me like someone who just got rattled.

>> BTW, my favorite color is blue. What's yours? <<

Ah... the posting of a silly off-topic non-sequitur. I supposed that's easier for than actually defending your points.



Edit: typo/wp error

[TheDebbieDee]

16. You know, Arwalden, no one at DU

has passed any law stating that everyone must take the action that I have propsed with regard to suspected trolls. This is just an idea - take it or leave it!

BTW, you got any ideas about the best brand of loose tea? Is it Celestial Seasonings or Tea Thyme? :-)

[KitchenWitch]

17. I like hula hoops n/t

[Misunderestimator]

18. I Hereby Apologize (not really) for all the recipes I have posted in...

response to being personally flamed... :) Flaimbait IS in the eye of the beholder and doesn't always come from trolls... sometimes leaving something completely unanswered makes it look like you conceded, rather than giving the real impression that you are just annoyed with the flaming.

I don't think it's such a bad idea for the occassional irritating poster... Worked well for me, though I've done it only a couple of times.

I do however get your point on the juvenile nature of it if it's overdone or used on questionably "flamebait" posts.

[DS1]

20. Agreed! And your chili recipe SUCKS!

:evilgrin: :hi:

[Zomby Woof]

4. Won't work on me

I am one of the best threadjackers on DU and a good flamebaiter. The best of both worlds, baby. I am an attention whore who doesn't give a shit if anyone posts in my threads. Embrace the paradox.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

5. If I may say so that is a stupendously ridiculous notion.

I'm surprised that this thread remains unlocked as it is.
That's all this place needs is a bunch of blase subjects.

[TheDebbieDee]

12. A-Schwarzeneggar! Got milk? :-)

[A-Schwarzenegger]

14. How blase.

[freeplessinseattle]

7. ah, yes, kill them with kindness:) (nt)

[Abelman]

11. All this talk of flamebaiting

reminds of this excellent chili recipe. I'll see if I can't find it and post it later.

[progmom]

19. I love that this turns out to be a flamebait thread itself

How meta.

[BigMcLargehuge]

21. locked

Here's a better idea. Hit the alert button and alert The Mods



Thanks

Big McLargehuge
DU Moderator