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How many things that we love wouldn't exist without the "gay" influence??

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dolo amber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 12:45 AM
Original message
How many things that we love wouldn't exist without the "gay" influence??
To the extent and glorious heights that they do today, anyway?

My chioces: Disco, and fashion. :loveya:








Props and much love...:toast:
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. Sistine Chapel for one
David for another.

1812 Overture...Nutcracker Suite....

:)
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
2. I must add
much of the worlds music, theatre, and art. Without the gay influence it would be gone.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
68. the sparkle to western civilization
Edited on Sun Dec-12-04 01:46 PM by ooglymoogly
springalator pumps with goldfish in the heel.
the adventures of Priscilla queen of the desert.
the fabulous in theater, music, fashion and art.
morissa barensons and angela's hair in barry lindon and bride of frankenstein. take the gay out of life and it will go flat. gay is the looking glass to life.
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
3. Reimagine the universe minus Liberace.......
Too painful to contemplate.
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Bat Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
65. Ever been to the Liberace museum in Vegas?
If not, turn off your computer and go there right now. It's worth it.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
4. feather boas
yes INDEED
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
5. Beatles had a gay manager, didn't they, Epstein?
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Yep. Juan Epstein. He was also a "sweathog."
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:03 AM
Original message
I thought it was Brian
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
16. A joke.
I know you's a young'n, but do you remember "Welcome Back Kotter?"
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. hah no I don't
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dolo amber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #5
22. Poor darlin' Kleeb...
The unpleasant minority you're thinking of is "Jews"...not "The Gays"...

:D
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. he was a Jewish Gay? two b'irds with one s'tone
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Jewish, gay, AND Puerto Rican!
Three birds, yaddayaddayadda....
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dolo amber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. Hitler's wet dream, I tells ya...
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. tell me he was a gyspy and commie too
:P
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
7. Rufus Wainwright
Am I the only straight guy that appreciates him?
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asthmaticeog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
8. Buttsex.
Oh, sorry, I meant the Buzzcocks.

Also, Hüsker Dü were of the lifestyle, no?
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dolo amber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Buttcocks??
:o


:D
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Not all gay men do, uh, that... but we do buzzcocks.
:evilgrin: :D
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Pete Shelley?
is gay?
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asthmaticeog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. He's a Homosapien, too.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #18
29. We're all homosapiens... except for one noteworthy exception...

(I rather do believe you got there first, but not in that order! :D )

:evilgrin:
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #29
75. Are we not men?
He is DEVO!
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
21. Mould and Hart, yes. Dunno about Norton.
Although he DID have a handle-bar moustache.....

Pete Shelley AND Howard Trafford were both gay, correct?


Might I add the late, great, but forgotten Team Dresch to this list?
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asthmaticeog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #21
31. Norton's a pastry chef now, so it might be a safe bet.
Edited on Sun Dec-12-04 01:20 AM by asthmaticeog
On top of Team Dresch, one could add Huggy Bear, no? They fucking ruled, and I'm pretty sure at least one of them was an out lesbian.

On edit: "On top of Team Dresch" -- :scared:
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. Hey, uh, *I'm* a pastry chef, too.....Oh. I get it.
I *could* add Heavens to Betsy, Excuse 17, Mecca Normal, etc....but the list would be far too long.

Lotsa cool lesbian drummers in the mid-90's riot grrrl scene. I should know, I was one of them!
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #34
73. And also Lou Reed when he was good...
although he denies it now.
C'mon Lou, faghag supreme Angie Bowie said that you were the feyest man she had ever met. Angie Bowie!
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #31
76. Darby Crash was gay
So we owe the Germs and therefore most of the LA Punk scene to gay culture
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
9. NP Complete Algorithms
would not exist without that famous gay Alan Turing.
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fnottr Donating Member (365 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. and pretty much computing as we know it too
I don't think we could have developed the technology nearly as fast without Turing
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nuxvomica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #12
33. Not to mention defeating Hitler
Turing's codebreaking may have been critical to winning World War II. And they paid him back by driving him to suicide.
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fnottr Donating Member (365 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. no doubt...
but remember, those damn gays are ruining society
:eyes:
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. it was very important
The codebreaking operation in WWII stopped a large amount of the German U-Boat operations.
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
11. Uh.... Hello.... ME
Not that I'm a narcissist, but shit, I do love me!
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
15. Right on!
We're hip with fashion and, let's face it, society would be as dull as watching a turtle walk while being hit on the head with a hammer without the fruits: Dull and painful at the same time. :D
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dolo amber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Amen, Hypnobrotha
:toast:
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LDS Jock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
20. the Mormon Tabernacle Choir
was organized by a gay man, living with his partner, back in the early days of the church. It was sort of a don't ask, don't tell, set up.
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dolo amber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Ooooh! Nice!
Did not know that...thanks! :hi:
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LDS Jock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. I love my seedy Mormon history stuff
brings a smile to my face when they try to be holier than thou today.
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
30. John Waters Films
Filmography

A Dirty Shame

Cecil B. Demented

Pecker

Serial Mom

Cry Baby

Hairspray

Polyester

Desperate Living

Female Trouble

Pink Flamingos

Multiple Maniacs

Mondo Trasho

The Diane Linkletter Story

Eat Your Makeup

Roman Candles

Hag In A Black Leather Jacket

Waters related films:

Divine Trash

Love Letter To Edie

Divine Waters

Sweet and Lowdown

The Simpsons

Something Wild

Homer & Eddie

Anthem

Forever Hollywood

Pie in the Sky

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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Pretty much the whole concept of "underground" films can be traced back to
the gay culture of the late 50's, early 60's and guys like Jack Smith, Taylor Mead, Warhol, Ken Anger, the Kuchars, etc. Were it not for a "film cult" subculture in the GLBT community at that time, there would be no Miramax, no Tarantino, no Sayles, no Rocky Horror, no Wes Anderson, etc.

It all started with "Flaming Creatures."
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Floogeldy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #32
41. But what is "gay" about the influence?
For sure, gay people have had an influence, but the influence itself is not "gay." Rock Hudson was gay, but his influence wasn't.
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. The impetus to create underground films sprung from
a marginalized culture. The gay, artistic community in New York in the early 60's wanted to see images on the screen that reflected their lives and their lifestyles. The frustration they felt at being such rabid fans of film but never seeing their own experiences in the theatres led them to create THEIR OWN genre. I believe the first film of this type was Jack Smith's "Flaming Creatures," a non-narrative work that featured drag queens, drug use, homosexual sex, etc. that was made in 1960. After this, it was possible for any old schmuck to buy a 8mm camera, a tape recorder, and make a movie without studio backing or the need to placate a mainstream audience.

Had it not been for that piece of groundbreaking, the concept of the independent film may have languished, waiting for a daring straight dude to pick it out of the ether.

There's a great book by J. Hoberman and Jonathan Rosenbaum called "Midnight Movies" that explains the history here better than I can.

The birth of disco (and therefore, hiphop) in the gay community is a whole nother thread in itself.

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Floogeldy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #44
50. There were "underground" things prior to the 60's
That there were underground films depicting gay issues in the 60's does not mean that gays invented underground media. There were "underground" pics, films and playing cards in the 1920's and beyond that had pictures of naked women on them for the entertainment of men. That's not "gay."

If you want to claim disco as being "gay," go ahead, but I'm not sure that is something to brag about.

Many gay people have made wonderful contributions to the world, but the contributions themselves were not "gay." That would be putting their sexuality above their art, and that's an insult to their art and sexuality.
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. Well, without disco, there'd be no hiphop, so I think bragging might be
in order, since hiphop is currently the dominant marketplace music.
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Floogeldy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #52
54. Hip Hop is not gay.
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. NO ONE IS CLAIMING THAT THESE THINGS "ARE" "GAY."
Edited on Sun Dec-12-04 02:50 AM by RandomKoolzip
There is no such thing as a medium or a genre with a sexual orientation. What we ARE saying is that disco, independent film, some great punk rock, fashion, etc. are all by-products of a culture in which gay people played a prominent role. You are the only person here saying that these things, in and of themselves, are essentially "gay."

Hiphop is a by-product of New York disco dj culture. Many of the first "turnatablists" got their start manning the wheels at gay clubs, spinning disco music for the dancers. The dancers themselves (there was a great book about this a few years ago, I believ it was called "Paradise Garage," but I could be wrong.) were dedicated to dancing allnight, to a specific beats-per-minute ratio.

Since, for these dancers, the existing singles or albums that were played at discoteques in the early-to-mid-70's were never long enough (they always ended after a few minutes, thus forcing a dj to switch records as fast as possible in order to not disrupt the rythymic flow of the evening), some gay record executives like Neil Bogart and others who regularly attended these clubs got the idea of extending or looping the rhythym track of their favorite new disco singles to lengths of twenty minutes or more. Thus, the 12" dance remix was born (to gay parents).

As the djs at these clubs, like the Paradise garage, got better at switching records, they, too, produced innovations of their own, like the double turntable. With this, the dj never had to stop the beat AT ALL. Thus, some djs, like Larry Levan, began to achieve legendary staus in the communities that attended these clubs; they were often revered for their skills in controlling the environment and mood of a club through creative editing of records and sequencing.

The symbiotic relationship between the gay record execs and the gay attendees at the clubs and the gay djs at the clubs cannot be discounted here. When disco started escaping from the Manhattan and Brooklyn clubs and into national conciousness, the mystique of the "DJ!!!" began to be seen as not just a gay phenomenon; often straight black males were attending the clubs, too, and wanted to bring the powerfully sexual, escapist atmosphere to their own environments.

When this happened, another culture was born: the street party dj. Around 1974-75, amateur djs who were copying the techniques they saw at disco clubs were bringing their home turntables to streetcorners in the Bronx and hosting impromptu parties there. They were conciously imitating the style and focus of the gay djs they admired, even thought they themselves were not gay, and they would mix disco records with funk records or even find "funky breaks" in rock records to mix and edit on their turntables. Google "Kool Herc" to learn more about this. Thus, we see gay style and innovations influencing, "coloring" the larger culture.

This street party dj often would have friends chant over a microphone and a PA to excite the dancers. Occasionally, the chanting could become rythmic and it could rhyme. Hip hop was born, although gradually it would lose whatever "taint" of the gay community it once held.

So....can you see what I'm getting at? There was a culture, pretty much created by gay people, which became larger in scope and eventually encompassed an inchoate form which then itself became a dominant, non-gay-associated, genre.

I'm not saying hiphop is "GAY." You are putting words in my mouth. What I AM saying is that disco midwifed hiphop, and disco, largely, sprung from an urban, gay subculture.

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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #41
57. Rock Hudson if only he could have been open about himself
I think he'd have been even better than he was.
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #32
48. What about Un Chien Andalou?
Un Chien Andalou

PROLOGUE
Once Upon a Time ...
A balcony at night.

A man is sharpening a razor by the balcony. The man looks
at the sky through the window-panes and sees ...

A light cloud moving toward the full moon.

Then a young woman's head, her eyes wide open. A razor blade
moves toward one of the eyes.

The light cloud passes now across the moon.

The razor blade cuts through the eye of the young woman,
slicing it.

End of Prologue.


EIGHT YEARS LATER
A deserted street. It is raining.

A character dressed in a dark-gray suit appears riding a
bicycle. His head, back and loins are adorned in ruffles of
white linen. A rectangular box with black and white diagonal
stripes is secured to his chest by straps. The character
pedals mechanically without holding the handlebars, with his
hands resting on his knees.

The character is seen from the back down to the thighs in a
medium shot, superimposed lengthwise on the street down
which he is cycling with his back to the camera.

The character moves toward the camera until the striped box
is seen in a close-up.

An ordinary room on the third floor on the same street. A
young girl wearing a brightly colored dress is sitting in
the middle of the room attentively reading a book. Suddenly
she comes out of her reading with a start, listens with
curiosity, freeing herself of the book by throwing it on a
nearby couch. The book stays open with a reproduction of
Vermeer's The Lacemaker on one of the pages facing
up. The young woman is convinced now that something is in
the offing: she, gets up, and, half turning, walks in quick
steps toward the window.

The character we have mentioned before has just at this very
moment stopped, below on the street. Without offering the
least resistance, out of inertia, he lets himself come down
with the bicycle into the gutter, in the midst of a mud
heap.

Looking enraged and resentful, the young woman hurries down
the stairs and out to the street.

Close-up of the character sprawling on the ground,
expressionless, his position identical to that at the
moment of his fall.

The young woman comes out of the house, and, throwing
herself on the cyclist, she frantically kisses him on the
mouth, the eyes and the nose. The rain gets heavier to the
extent of blotting out the preceding scene.

Dissolve to the box whose diagonal stripes are superimposed
on those of the rain. Hands equipped with a little key open
the box, pulling out a tie wrapped in tissue paper. It must
be taken into account that the rain, the box, the tissue
paper and the tie should all exhibit these diagonal stripes,
with their sizes alone varying.

The same room.

Standing by the bed, the young woman is looking at the
clothing articles that had been worn by the character --
ruffles, box, and the stiff collar with the plain dark tie
-- all laid out as though they were worn by a person lying
on the bed. The young woman finally decides to pick up the
collar, removing the plain tie in order to replace it with
the striped one which she has just taken out of the box.
She puts it back in the same place, and then sits down by
the bed in the posture of a person watching over the dead.

(Note: The bed, that is to say, the bedspread and the
pillow, are slightly rumpled and depressed as if a human
body were really lying there).

The woman is aware that someone is standing behind her and
turns around to see who it is. Without the least surprise,
she sees the character who now is without any of his former
accessory articles, looking very attentively at something
in his right hand. His great absorption betrays quite a
great deal of anxiety.

The woman approaches and looks in turn at what he has in his
hand. Close-up of the hand, the middle of which is teeming
with ants swarming out of a black hole. None of these falls
off.

Dissolve to the armpit hair of a young woman sprawled on
the sand of a sunny beach. Dissolve to a sea urchin whose
spines ripple slightly. Dissolve to the head of another
young woman in a powerful overhead shot framed by an iris.
The iris opens to reveal the young woman surrounded by a
throng of people who are trying to break through a police
barrier.

At the center of this circle, the young woman, holding a
stick, attempts to pick up a severed hand with painted
fingernails that is lying on the ground. A policeman comes
up to her, sharply reprimanding her; he bends down and
picks up the hand which he carefully wraps up and puts in
the box that was carried by the cyclist. He hands it all to
the young woman, saluting her in a military fashion while
she thanks him.

As the policeman hands her the box, she must appear to be
carried away by an extraordinary emotion that isolates her
completely from everything around her. It is as though she
were enthralled by the echoes of distant religious music;
perhaps music she heard in her earliest childhood.

Their curiosity satisfied, the bystanders begin to disperse
in all directions.

This scene will have been seen by the characters whom we
have left in the room on the third floor. They are seen
through the window panes of the balcony from which may be
seen the end of the scene described above. When the
policeman hands the box over to the young woman, the two
characters on the balcony appear to also be overcome to
the point of tears by the same emotion. Their heads sway
as though following the rhythm of this impalpable music.

The man looks at the young woman and makes a gesture as
though he were saying: "Did you see? Hadn't I told you so?"
She looks down again at the young woman on the street who
is now all alone and, as if pinned down to the spot, in a
state of utter restraint. Cars pass all around her at
breathtaking speeds. Suddenly she is run over by one of the
cars and is left there horribly mutilated.

It is then that, with the decisiveness of a man fully
knowing his rights, the man goes over to his companion, and,
having gazed lasciviously straight into her eyes, he grabs
her breasts through her dress. Closeup of the lustful hands
over the breasts. These are bared as the dress disappears.
A terrible expression of almost mortal anguish spreads over
the man's face, and a blood-streaked dribble runs out of
his mouth dripping on the young woman's bare breasts.

The breasts disappear to be transformed into thighs which
the man continues to palpate. His expression has changed.
His eyes sparkle with malice and lust. His wide open mouth
now closes down as if tightened up by a sphincter.

The young woman moves back toward the middle of the room,
followed by the man who is still in the same posture.

Suddenly, she makes a forceful motion, breaking his hold on
her, freeing herself from his amorous advances.

The man's mouth tightens with anger.

She realizes that a disagreeable or violent scene is about
to take place. She moves back, step by step, until she
reaches the corner of the room, where she takes up a
position behind a small table.

Assuming the gestures of the melodrama villain, the man
looks around for something or other. He sees at his feet the
end of a rope and picks it up with his right hand. His left
hand gropes about too and gets hold of an identical rope.

Glued to the wall the young woman watches with horror her
attacker's stratagem.

The latter advances toward her dragging with great effort
that which is attached behind to the ropes.

We see passing before our eyes on the screen: first, a cork,
then a melon, then two Brothers of Christian Schools, and
finally two magnificent grand pianos. The pianos are loaded
with the rotting carcasses of two donkeys, their feet,
tails, hindquarters and excrement spilling out of the
piano-cases. As one of the pianos passes in front of the
camera lens, a large donkey's head is seen pressing the
keyboard.

Pulling with great difficulty this burden, the man
desperately strains toward the young woman, knocking over
chairs, tables, a floor lamp, etc., etc. The donkey's
hind-quarters get caught in everything. A lamp hanging from
the ceiling is jostled by a stripped bone, and continues
rocking until the end of the scene.

When the man is about to reach the young woman, she dodges
him with a leap and escapes. Her attacker lets go of the
ropes and begins pursuing her. The young woman opens a
communicating door and vanishes into the next room, but not
quickly enough to be able to lock the door behind her. The
man's hand having made it past the joint, is held captive,
caught at the wrist.

Inside the other room, pressing the door harder and harder,
the young woman looks at the hand which wrenches in pain in
slow motion as the ants reappear and swarm over the door.

Right away, she turns her head toward the middle of the new
room, which is identical to the previous one, but on which
the lighting confers a different look; the young woman
sees ...

A man sprawled on the bed who is the one and the same man
whose hand is still caught in the door. Wearing the ruffles
with the box resting on his chest he does not make the
least movement but lies there, his eyes wide open, his
superstitious expression seeming to say: "Something really
extraordinary is now about to happen!"


ABOUT THREE O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING
A new character is seen from the back on the landing; he
has just stopped by the entrance door to the apartment. He
rings the bell of the apartment where the events are taking
place. We don't see the bell nor the electric hammer, but
in their place, over the door, there are two holes through
which pass two hands shaking a silver cocktail shaker.
Their action is instantaneous, as in ordinary films when a
doorbell button is being pressed.

The man lying on the bed gives a start.

The young woman goes and opens the door.

The newcomer goes directly to the bed and imperiously
orders the man to get up. The man complies so grudgingly
that the other is obliged to grab him by the ruffles and
force him to his feet.

Having torn off the ruffles one by one, the newcomer throws
them out of the window. The box follows the same route and
so do the straps which the man tries in vain to save from
the catastrophe. And this leads the newcomer to punish the
man by making him go and stand with his face to one of the
walls.

The newcomer will have done all this with his back
completely turned to the camera. He turns around now for
the first time in order to go and look for something on the
other side of the room.

The sub-title says:


SIXTEEN YEARS BEFORE
At this point the photography becomes hazy. The newcomer
moves in slow motion and we set that his features are
identical to those of the other; they are one and the same
person, but for the fact that the newcomer looks younger
and more doleful, as the other must have been years before.

The newcomer goes toward the back of the room with the
camera tracking back and keeping him in medium close-up.

The school desk toward which our individual is heading
enters the frame. There are two books on the school desk,
as well as various school objects, whose position and moral
meaning are to be carefully determined.

The newcomer picks up the two books and turns to go and
join the other man. At this point everything goes back to
normal, the fuzziness and slow motion having disappeared.

Having come up to the man, the newcomer directs him to hold
out his arms in a cruciform position, places a book in each
hand, and orders him to remain so as a punishment.

The punished character's expression has now become keen and
treacherous. He turns to face the newcomer. The books he
has been holding turn into revolvers.

The newcomer looks at him with tenderness, an expression
that becomes more pronounced with each passing moment.

The other, threatening the newcomer with his guns and
forcing him to put his hands up, does not heed the latter's
compliance and fires both revolvers at him. Medium close-up
of the newcomer falling down fatally wounded, his features
contorted in agony (the photography's fuzziness is resumed
and the newcomer's fall is in slow motion, in a way that is
more pronounced than previously).

We see in the distance the wounded man falling; this,
however, happens no longer inside the room but in a park.
Seated next to him is a motionless woman with bare
shoulders, who is seen from behind leaning slightly forward.
As he falls the wounded man attempts to seize and stroke her
shoulders; one of his hands is turned shaking toward
himself; the other brushes against the skin of the naked
shoulders. Finally he falls to the ground.

View from afar. A few passers-by and several park-keepers
rush over to help. They pick him up in their arms and bear
him away through the woods.

Let the passionate lame man play a role here.

And we are back at the same room. A door, the one in which
the hand had been caught, now opens slowly. The young woman
we already know appears. She closes the door behind her and
stares very attentively at the wall against which the
murderer had stood.

The man is no longer there. The wall is bare, without any
furniture or decoration. The young woman makes a gesture of
vexation and impatience.

The wall is seen again; in the middle of it there is a small
black spot.

Seen much closer, this small spot appears to be a
death's-head moth.

Close-up of the moth.

The death's head on the moth's wings fills the whole screen.

The man who was wearing ruffles comes suddenly into view in
a medium shot bringing his hand swiftly to his mouth as
though he were losing his teeth.

The young woman looks at him disdainfully.

When the man takes away his hand, we see that his mouth has
disappeared.

The young woman seems to be saying to him: "Well, and what
next?" and then she touches up her lips with a lipstick.

We see again the man's head. Hair begins to sprout where
his mouth had been.

Having caught sight of this, the young woman stifles a cry
and swiftly examines her armpit which is completely
depilated. She scornfully sticks out her tongue at him,
throws a shawl over her shoulders, and, opening the door
near her, goes into the adjacent room which is a wide
beach.

A third character is waiting for her near the water's edge.
They greet each other very amiably, and meander together
down the waterline.

A shot of their legs and the waves breaking at their feet.

The camera follows them in a dolly shot. The waves gently
wash ashore at their feet, first, the straps, then the
striped box followed by the ruffles, and finally the
bicycle. This shot continues a moment longer without
anything else being washed ashore.

They continue their walk on the beach, little by little
fading from view, while in the sky appear the words:


IN THE SPRING
Everything has changed.

We see now a desert without end. We see the man and the
young woman in the center, sunk in sand up to their chests,
blinded, their clothes in tatters, devoured by the sun and
by swarms of insects.







Original Shooting Script by Luis Buñuel and Salvador Dalí
Translated by Haim Finkelstein



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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #48
51. Bunuel and the other European avant-gardists
worked with full crews, full budgets, shot on up-to-date stock, and were OF the mainstream art world before taking up the cause of "new cinema." MAny of their innovations had to do with clever editing or use of odd techniques.

Kenneth Anger, Warhol, Smith, etc. worked with no crew, rarely edited their work, and the budget usually consisted of the cost of the film itself.

Plus, they were of a diffent milieu altogether; Bunuel was Buddy Holly to Warhol's Beatles.
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #51
70. What about Man Ray? There were underground films before the 50s.





Silent Era Home Page > DVD > May Ray: Prophet of the Avant Garde DVD Review

Reviews of silent film releases on DVD home video.
Copyright © 2000 by Carl Bennett. All Rights Reserved.

Man Ray:
Prophet of the
Avant Garde
(1997)
on



An interesting note: Man Ray was pushed into filmmaking by dadist Tristan Tzara, who published a programme for an event listing a film, which would be shown at the event, by Man Ray. There was no film and Man Ray didn’t even know of the schedule until the day before the event. Tzara had even given the film a title already. Adapting one of his photographic printmaking techniques, Man Ray made the film which was shown at the event the following evening. The film was Le Retour de la Raison.

— Carl Bennett
2000 Fox Lorber edition

Man Ray: Prophet of the Avant Garde (1997), color and black & white, 60 minutes, not rated.

Fox Lorber, WHE73041DVD, UPC 7-20917-30412-0.
1.33:1 full-frame NTSC, one single-sided, single-layered disc, DVD Region 1, ? Mbps average video bit rate, ? kbps audio bit rate, Dolby Digital 2.0 stereo sound, no foreign language subtitles, chapter stops, keep case, $24.98.
DVD release date: 22 February 2000.
Country of origin: USA

Ratings (1-10): video: 9 / audio: 8 / additional content: 5 / overall: 7.
Prerelease information on this title stated that the documentary is 60 minutes long, produced by the PBS television American Masters series, and that there would be “extra Man Ray short films.” We couldn’t find any. There are brief clips from Le Retour de la Raison (1923), Emak-Bakia (1926) and Les Mystères du Château du Dé (1929). The majority of the documentary is more balanced across all of Man Ray’s excursions into various media. More prominent are Man Ray’s paintings and photography. After all, the Brooklyn-born artist was and remains known for his wonderful photographic portraits of Marcel Proust, Gertrude Stein, Ernest Hemingway, Igor Stavinsky, Sinclair Lewis, James Joyce, T.S. Eliot, Pablo Picasso, Henri Matisse and more. The disc includes an essay by Neil Baldwin.

We hope that someday a DVD will be released that will include transfers from 35mm prints of Le Retour de la Raison (1923), Ballet Méchanique (1924) directed by Ferdinand Léger , Emak-Bakia (1926), L’etoile de mer (1928), and Les Mystères du Château du Dé (1929).


USA: Click the logomark at right to purchase
a Region 1 NTSC DVD of this edition from Amazon.com.
Canada: Click the logomark at right to purchase
a Region 1 NTSC DVD of this edition from Amazon.ca.


Silent Era Home Page > DVD > Man Ray: Prophet of the Avant Garde DVD Review || Top of Page

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Floogeldy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
37. I disagree
I fail to see the connection between the accomplishments listed and being "gay." While the people mentioned might be/have been gay, I don't see how that fact influenced anything.
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. See my post directly above yours.
Had it not been for a marginalized, urban homosexual culture producing their own art that was marginal by definition, we would not have the independent film industry.

Had it not been for a subculture of gay men who wanted to hear a continuous, 120-bpm beat ALL NIGHT to dance to, we would not have disco, hip hop, etc.

The connections are there for you to discover.
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Beware the Beast Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
39. Queen and Hadrian's Wall.
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #39
42. Good one! I wouldn't want to live in a Freddie Mercury-less world.
What can you say about a guy whose biggest acknowledged influences were Judy Garland and Jimi Hendrix?
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Beware the Beast Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #42
55. Freddy ruled, no doubt.
Over Thanksgiving, XM broadcast the Live Aid 20th Anniversary set. Queen was just awesome.
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #42
77. And I wouln't want to live in a world where
those barbaric Scots could invade civilized Roman England at whim.

Thank Jupiter for Hadrian.
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jdots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
40.  the arts, and here is why
Our culture is now and has been anti art and culture since the industrial revolution.Outsiders be they gay & lesbian ,what are called nerds or eggheads,Jews,African Americans or anything or one who is left out starts the trends that are followed by the people who think the arts are for outsiders.
Not to say that the outsiders if let inside would abandon thier style sence but part of it is rebellion toward the status quo that becomes status quo .
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Floogeldy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #40
53. What trends?
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bobweaver Donating Member (953 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
43. Divorce
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. The concept of divorce was dreamt up by gay people?
Wow. Explain that one to me, oh oracle of the ages.
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bobweaver Donating Member (953 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. No, I mean that gay affairs on the side have caused some divorces AND
that some other divorces were caused by one of the married partners finally admitting that he or she is actually gay (Michael Huffington, James McGreevey for 2 examples)
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. You know, people have been getting divorced for a long time.
Divorce was more prevalent in the 40's and 50's than it is now. (look for it on a non-RW site or source).

Should we bring most straight people's love of war and money into the discussion, then?
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dolo amber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #47
60. Crazy people are funny
:7
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gollygee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #47
62. Well the way I see that
Homophobia has caused some divorces. Ie if people were able to be comfortable living out they wouldn't be getting married in the first place if they were gay. And if they didn't get married, they obviously wouldn't get divorced.

Way to warp it though in an attempt to frame it as a "gay agenda" issue.
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Bat Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #47
64. My parents were gay?
Well this is a shitty way to find out.

Seriously, dude, do you think that the percentage of divorces caused by gay affairs comes even close to hetero infidelity, financial problems, and just plain incompatibility?

No. I'm sorry if Fred Phelps lied to you, but no.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
46. Broadway
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 03:15 AM
Response to Original message
58. friggin' Broadway!
Cole Porter, Peter Allen, scores of others! There would be no Broadway - good stuff anyway - had it not been for gays.
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UncleSepp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 03:47 AM
Response to Original message
59. Bare chests without rugs on them
Sorry bears, I like the shiny smooth look :-D
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
61. plato's theory of love
as discussed in the Symposium.
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CatBoreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
63. Diary Rock...
Indigo Girls and Melissa Ethridge come to mind, both major influences on people like Sarah McLaughlin, Jann Arden, Amanda Marshall and Paula Cole.
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Bat Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
66. I would laugh a whole lot less.
My gay friends are some of the funniest people on the planet.
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
67. gay porn
......um, or so i've heard.
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
69. Musical theater.
Oscar Hammerstein. Lorenz Hart. Cole Porter.

Stephen Sondheim.

"Wwst Side Story". A work of genius. Of GAY genius.

Musical theater COULD exist without the gay influence. But, frankly, I shudder to imagine what it would be like. :-(

T
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
71. Gravitation
my friends would starve without the manga.
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Midnight Rambler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
72. Judas Priest
Brought the leatherman persona to the heavy metal mainstream.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
74. David Sedaris
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