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Earth_First Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 11:28 AM
Original message
Dinosaurs in the bible...
why is there no reference to dinosaurs in the bible?
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Fenris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. They are called Jesus Horses.
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. ahahahaha!
Simpsons episode, right?

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el_gato Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
2. because salvationist religion was invented 3000 years ago
Edited on Thu Dec-16-04 11:31 AM by el_gato
right around the time they needed an explanation for the mass misery that resulted from humanity's decision to become separate from nature.
Dinosaurs were long gone by then. The story of genesis refers to the
lost "Eden" that we actually had before agriculture came along.


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LynzM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
3. I had a semi-fundy friend in h.s.
Who maintained that God put dinosaur bones into the earth to 'test our faith' in him. That is, dinosaurs never really existed, so if you believe that they did, which invalidates the biblical timeline, then you don't have enough faith in God. :wtf:
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. His name was of course...
Ned Flanders.
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Abelman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. I had a similar notion
but it wasn't a test of faith it was a practical joke. God was just punking us.

And he couldn't care less if people believed his timeline or not.
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oneighty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
4. Giants in the earth?
I do not know. Perhaps they had not yet been created.

180
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
5. Some say there are references to dinosaurs in the Bible
Reading the Bible carefully, you will realize that no living creature matches the descriptions of behemoth and Leviathan. However, if you grab your kid’s dinosaur book, you will notice several possible matches for each one. Let’s examine those.

Behemoth has the following attributes according to Job 40:15-24


It “eats grass like an ox.”
It “moves his tail like a cedar.” (In Hebrew, this literally reads, “he lets hang his tail like a cedar.”)
Its “bones are like beams of bronze,
His ribs like bars of iron.”
“He is the first of the ways of God.”
“He lies under the lotus trees,
In a covert of reeds and marsh.”
Some bibles and study bibles will translate the word “behemoth” as “elephant” or “hippopotamus.” Others will put a note at the edge or bottom of the page, stating that behemoth was probably an elephant or a hippopotamus. Although an elephant or hippopotamus can eat grass (or lie in a covert of reeds and marsh), neither an elephant or a hippopotamus has a “tail like a cedar” (that is, a tail like a large, tapered tree trunk). In your kid’s dinosaur book you will find lots of animals that have “tails like a cedar.”

We would expect behemoth to be a large land animal whose bones are like beams of bronze and so forth, so whatever a behemoth is, it is large. A key phrase is “He is the first of the ways of God.” This phrase in the original Hebrew implied that behemoth was the biggest animal created. Although an elephant or a hippopotamus are big, they are less than one-tenth the size of a Brachiosaurus, the largest (complete) dinosaur ever discovered.<1> A Brachiosaurus could therefore easily be described as “the first of the ways of God.”

Comparing all this information to the description in your kid’s dinosaur book, you may come to the conclusion that “behemoth” is not a normal animal, it is a dinosaur—the brachiosaurus. We agree with that conclusion!


http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/dinos.shtml
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Dinosaurs didn't eat grass.
You know why?
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Fenris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Tell us, Mr. Science!
:7
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Ladyhawk got it.
Cheers to scientific literacy!
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Fenris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Hoorah!
Science once again triumphs!
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Thank you muchly. I am very interested in the Mesozoic Era. :) n/t
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Grass had not yet evolved in the Mesozoic.
Edited on Thu Dec-16-04 11:41 AM by Ladyhawk
Vegetation consisted of ferns, plants like Gingko Biloba, lots of conifers, cycads, etc.
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. It depends on when in the Mesozoic
There was a huge floral change from the Triassic to the Cretaceous.

Prairies were non-existant in the Mesozoic, and any sort of meadows would be almost 100% ferns. Every forest throughout the world would be mostly conifers with some ginkgo, BUT in the later part of the Cretaceous angiosperms did start to increase in number, and magnolias and related trees were pretty common.

Grasses weren't around, but grass-relatives (monocots) certainly were. Keep in mind, some modern examples of monocots include onions, lillies, garlic, bamboo, orchids, bromiliads, bananas, ginger, palms, aloes, asparagus, hyacinths, etc... so it's a pretty diverse group. Dicots (almost all other flowering plants except magnolias and relatives) were also present in the Cretaceous, although not common.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. Dupe...sorry. n/t
Edited on Thu Dec-16-04 11:43 AM by Ladyhawk
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
26. I know why :-)
Actually two reasons:

Grass has almost no nutrition and grass had not evolved (although monocots were around).
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RUDUing2 Donating Member (968 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
6. there is.
remember dinosaur is a fairly new word..coined in 1841...

the bible does refer to behemoths, leviathans and tanniyns..

The Bible refers to many the common animals we know today. The list includes lions, wolves, bears, sheep, cattle and dogs along with various kinds of birds, rodents, reptiles, and insects. What is interesting is that this extensive list includes three animals that we no longer recognize. These three are (in the original Hebrew language) tanniyn, b@hemowth (yes, it’s spelled correctly—at least as close as we can get in Roman characters), and livyathan.

Although we alter the spelling of behemoth and Leviathan slightly, we still use those same words in bibles today. However, tanniyn is always translated into another word when we write it in English. Tanniyn occurs 28 times in the Bible and is normally translated “dragon.” It is also translated “serpent,” “sea monster,” “dinosaur,” “great creature,” and “reptile.” Behemoth and Leviathan are relatively specific creatures, perhaps each was a single kind of animal. Tanniyn is a more general term, and it can be thought of as the original version of the word “dinosaur.” The word “dinosaur” was originally coined in 1841, more than three thousand years after the Bible first referred to “Tanniyn.” To make things clearer, we constructed the following table comparing the scientific names with the Biblical names tanniyn, behemoth, and Leviathan.

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/dinos.shtml

and

http://www.genesispark.org/genpark/bible/bible.htm
There are a number of places where it appears that dinosaurs or other similar creatures are mentioned in the scriptures. Remember that the Bible was translated into English long before the word "dinosaur" was coined. However, the word "dragon" appears 21 times in the Old Testament alone. "You shall tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shall you trample under feet" (Psalm 91:13). From the context it is clearly speaking about a real creature that it would be impressive and intimidating to step on! Jeremiah 51:34 tells, "he has swallowed me up like a dragon..." which brings to mind the way many carnivorous reptiles swallow their prey whole. Both dragons of the sea (Psalm 74:13) and field (Isaiah 43:20) are mentioned. Indeed, Genesis 1:21 can best be translated: "And God created great sea monsters..." One such sea monster became sufficiently well-known to the ancients to be given the special name "Rahab" (Isaiah 51:9). The prophet Ezekiel likens Pharaoh to a sea monster that invaded the Nile river and stirred up the mud (32:2). The Hebrew word, "Tannin," is from the root meaning "to extend." The language conjures up an image of a long-necked plesiosaur-like creature paddling up the river and stirring up mud from the Nile delta with its flippers. Just such a creature is depicted by the ancient Egyptians who may have netted one just as Ezekiel describes in verse 3.

Job is the oldest book in the Bible. This book is very interesting from a scientific perspective because of the many natural phenomena that are addressed by God, Job, and his friends. Along the way, God points Job to two special creatures. The first, mentioned in Job 40:15, is usually translated "behemoth" in the English Bible. Some commentators have suggested that behemoth was a hippo or elephant. But the passage makes clear that this herbivorous animal was "chief of the ways of God." Certainly the hippo and elephant (which had other Hebrew names) don’t qualify as the biggest land animal, nor does their anatomy fit the clear language of verse 17. A cedar tree brings to mind a dinosaur’s huge tail! In fact, pygmy peoples in equatorial Africa tell stories of a ferocious dinosaurian creature that occupies their swamps and rivers and lashes its opponents with its tail. It becomes fascinating, as one considers the tail as an offensive weapon, to review the description of Satan as a dragon: "And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon ...And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth:" (Revelation 12:3-4).

Job 41 portrays yet another awe-inspiring creature: Leviathan. While clearly one of the fiercest creatures that God made, it is difficult to establish exactly what Leviathan was. The Bible describes a sharp-toothed, scaled creature whose habitat is the mire and deep waters. Ken Ham suggests the ferocious kronosaur as a candidate. Others have suggested that this fire-breathing monster was a land-dweller that merely spent much of its time in the water. Perhaps leviathan was a dinosaur with armor or claws whose "sharp stones" were employed to destroy ancient weapons. Maybe we have yet to discover the remains of a leviathan!

The "unicorn," mentioned nine times in the KJV Bible, is the Hebrew word "Re-em." The Septuagint (Greek translation of the Old Testament) translated it "Monokeros" (one-horn) which was used in Bibles until the 19th century when Akkadian and Ugaritic records were found that mentioned the "Re-em" being hunted like a wild ox. However, their early pictograph for the "Re-em" shows an animal head with three horns, like a Triceratops. In Psalm 92:10 the "Re-em" has but one horn, while the language or Deuteronomy 33:17 implies two horns. Although most commentators and modern versions translate it as a bull or rhino, some have theorized that "Re-em" might be a Monoclonious (single horned dinosaur like Triceratops). In Job 39:9-12 God asks, "Will the unicorn be willing to serve you, or abide by your crib? Can you bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after you? Wilt you trust him, because his strength is great?" This passage shows that the unicorn, whatever it was, could not be tamed to be used in farming, as could an ox. In his classic work Naturalis Historia the first century author Pliny the Elder described "an exceedingly wild beast called the Monoceros . ...It makes a deep lowing noise, and one black horn two cubits long projects from the middle of its forehead." He describes it as like an elephant in length, but with much shorter legs. Other classical authors like Aelian, Oppian, and Martial also mention a "nose-horn" creature (a "Rinokeros"). Some claim that the "Rinokeros" sharpens his horn on a rock and utilizes it in fighting elephants. This is the root word from which we get the modern name rhinoceros. But a rhino does not stab with its horn, which is actually composed of keratin (hair). The correlation between the classical authors and some modern cryptozoological reports is striking. Dr. Roy Mackal’s explorations in the Congo brought back reports of a rare, single-horned animal called "Emela-ntouka" or "killer of elephants." In a recent expedition, pygmies in Cameroon identified the horned creature (there called "Ngoubou") with a Ceratopsian dinosaur and claimed it could sport from one to four horns. Indeed, modern researchers believe that the ceratopsian dinosaurs likely did use their great horn for combat (Dodson, Peter, The Horned Dinosaurs:A Natural History, 1996, p.123.)

In the Authorized version of scripture we find Isaiah twice mentioning the "fiery flying serpent." Egypt is called the place of the "lion, the viper and fiery flying serpent," (30:6). This fits with classical authors describing pterosaur populations in Egypt and Arabia. Goertzen notes: "The Hebrew word, m'opheph Jpvfm, is a polal participle; a form used only by Isaiah when describing the reptilian saraph. The polal indicates an intensive of the root pvf ooph that means to fly or flutter. The imperfect form of the polal is found in Genesis 1:20, ‘flying creatures that flutter to and fro’ and Isaiah 6:2 ‘seraphim’ (the same word as the reptiles here used for angelic creatures) that fly to and fro.’" (Goertzen, John, "The Bible and Pterosaurs," 1998.) This same word is employed in Numbers 21:6 to describe the poisonous reptiles that bit the murmuring Israelites. Indeed it is easier to envision an attack of nimble flying snakes (pterosaurs) killing many of the children of Israel rather than them being surprised and killed by snakes on the ground. The pterosaur becoming a type of Christ (John 3:14) seems more appropriate than the snake, which from Genesis to Revelation is a symbol of Satan. In addition, the spread wings on the top of the pole would form a cross. In fact, a plate found with Sennacherib's booty at Calah (from the conquest of Palestine) depicts such a winged serpent on a pole that would seems to match the Nehushtan or brazen saraph of Moses that had become a symbol of worship by Hezekiah's reign (II Kings 18:4). The "fiery" flying snake even matches some cryptozoological reports from New Guinea, which attribute to alleged living pterosaurs a bioluminescent capability like a firefly.

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semillama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
14. "...but oh, the trail was blocked by a giant brontosaurus"
with a splinter in his paw. and the disciples did run screaming, "Oh! What a big fucking lizard, Lord!"
"I'm sure going to mention it in my book," said Luke.
"Well, I'm sure going to mention it in MY book," said Matthew.
"I'm not sure what I saw," said Thomas.
Timothy nudged him. "It was a big fucking lizard, Thomas!"

But Jesus was unafraid and took the splinter from the brontosaurus's paw, and the brontosaurus became Jesus's friend.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. LOL...Hicks came right to my mind to
:)
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. The Bible's only mention of dinosaurs is of a nonexistant dinosaur?
That sucks!
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. "the brontosaurus became Jesus's friend"
And his name was Barney.
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the Princess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
18. Because
The bibleis man made stories instead of actual history.
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Mike Niendorff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
20. you ready for this? well, here's how they dodge it:

Get ready to meet : Leviathan! Fire-breathing sea monster, dinosaur and Loch Ness Monster all rolled up into one.

(And no, I'm not kidding. I was raised in this movement, and I can vouch for how seriously these people take this crap.)

Details here:

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/leviathan.html

(and when you're done with that, I'll be happy to tell you all about their theories on how the entire separation of the continents, via plate tectonics, all took place within one generation, because there's this guy "Peleg" mentioned in the Bible, and it says "in his days was the land divided". And no, that one's not a joke either.)


MDN


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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. It's not a joke but I'm laughing like crazy anyway.
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Mike Niendorff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Laugh or cry, they're on the march.

Give them 15 years, and they'll write it into your kids' science textbooks. And not just in Kansas.


MDN
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Mike Niendorff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. oh, and as to the rest of the dinosaurs ...

A lot of these nuts will tell you they were products of interbreeding between human women and devils (see, that's why God *really* had to flood the earth, you see ... it was to kill off all those "giants in the land" that were born from human women who had sex with demons -- although some of them also will tell you that it may have been aliens from outer space that were the fathers, since the Biblical text is always open to any insane "interpretation" that helps you to avoid the scientific facts).

Seriously, kids, you do NOT want to know just how deep the rabbit hole goes for that movement.


MDN
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Maestro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Shit, I hate these people
They anger me because their warped, simple minded, medieval thinking. Grow up and move on. Enlighten yourself, you idiots. I am not talking about you Mike but that group.
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Mike Niendorff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. lol, no offense taken. I escaped into reality in my early 20's :)

Every time I see one of these people popping up somewhere, it reminds me just how happy I am to have gotten out of that cult-world they inhabit But having been raised in it, I think I've got a pretty good picture of just how strong the kool-aid is, and it is more than a bit frightening to watch these people climbing the rungs of power. Their designs are anything but benign.


MDN

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LibertyLover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
29. Dinos in the Bible
I remember reading an article in an archaeology magazine which postulated that ancient civilizations may have seen dinosaur bones in cliffs and hillsides and been impressed with their size and heft. The bones in turn were the origin of myths about giants and dragons. It made sense to me.
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semillama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. I remember that one
It was in Archaeology a couple years back. They even have a Greek vase somewhere with a painting of a fossil on it.
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