I have a question about modern martial arts films, can anyone help?

[Bouncy Ball]

There seems to be this trend of depicting people performing martial arts and doing things that just aren't humanly possible. I first saw it in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and now I am watching Hero with Jet Li and seeing the same thing. People can fly through the air when they are particularly disciplined and strong in the martial arts? I just watched a woman single-handedly fend off a huge armies' bunch of giant arrows flying through the air with only her moves and apparently her long red sleeves that can go 100 miles per hour.

I also saw this kind of stuff in the Kill Bill movies. I'm sure there are others.

What is this about? In the 70s, I saw some Kung Fu flicks and I'm sure they used camera tricks, etc but no one flew through the air. I realize they didn't really have the sophistication to do that in movies then, but I just find this stuff rather unbelievable. What's wrong with martial arts I can actually believe?

[Bouncy Ball]

1. ...

:cry:

[NamVetsWeeLass]

2. Actually, according to popular Rumor....

They had to use the Camera to Slow Bruce Lee's Movements down so you could catch all of what he was doing. I am not sure of how valid that really is, but it sounds like it could be true, based on how fast the man really was. As far as today's Martial Arts films... I am a Bruce Lee fan, anyone else is just copying him. Just my opinion, folks. He was incredible. I Hate it that Both he and Brandon died so young. Brandon would have been something had he been allowed more time. (although I did like "The Crow") To me, Jet Li and the like are just copy cats of Bruce. I will Watch Jackie Chan but more for his quirky ways than his fine Martial Arts skills.

[instantkarma]

19. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar explained

in the documentary "A Warrior's Journey", that after he and Bruce Lee went all-out while filming their Jeet Kune Do fight for Game of Death, they discovered that the camera couldn't follow their movements and the footage came out looking "herky-jerky." So they had to move a little slower and restrict themselves to simpler moves. So Bruce Lee was the one who had to adapt his movement for the camera, not the other way around.

[redqueen]

3. Nothing's wron gwith it...

it's just popular to have the 'supernatural' kung fu stuff in there too... I love it!

[Bouncy Ball]

4. I haven't really decided how I feel about it.

I mean, I LOVE the backstory of these movies. Almost always intriguing.

And I really get caught up in watching the supernatural martial arts scenes. I guess there's always a part of me whispering "Damn, that's not right!"

[DrWeird]

5. humanly impossible feats in action movies?

pull the other one.

[Bouncy Ball]

6. I know, I know hard to believe eh?

I guess I'm just wistful for the 70s Kung Fu flicks. Gonna have to see if there are any on Netflix, I think.

[DS1]

7. Typical Asian ego-padding and self-promotion bullshit

Or, as they'd call it, reverence towards ancestors. Still bullshit though.

[Bouncy Ball]

8. I take it you're not a fan?

:evilgrin:

[DS1]

9. I like Kung Fu movies, I idolize Bruce Lee above ALL others,

but as soon as some gray haired chump jumps 30 feet straight up into a tree and lands on the finest of branches without snapping it, I lose interest.

At least in the Matrix there was a given reason why the laws of physics were being broken left and right.

[Bouncy Ball]

11. EXACTLY!!!

Thank you! You just described perfectly how I feel about it.

Here's a film I found in Netflix from 1970, it's not Bruce Lee and the plot sounds slightly corny, but I think I might put it in the cue.

http://www.netflix.com/MovieDisplay?movieid=60036306&trkid=96586

[Keirsey]

10. Wuxia Pien to wire fu

Wuxia Pien as a storytelling genre draws from Chinese mythology and the more esoteric aspects of martial arts. It usually chronicles the exploits of heroic knights who fight to uphold justice in a mythical realm where powerful clans of heroes and villains dominate society and vie for control of the "martial world." Common elements to these stories include swordplay, flying, magic, weapons infused with special properties, and elaborate lairs or traps. In serialized accounts that appeared in Chinese newspapers in the 19th century, long-running wuxia stories were popular. In this period, these stories were also theatrically dramatized in Chinese opera where performers employed martial arts and acrobatics on stage.

...

After the success of Swordsman (1990), wuxia elements were combined with kung fu to create a new style of martial arts film called wire fu. Not considered true wuxia films, Once Upon a Time in China (1991) and Iron Monkey (1993) were leading examples of this new hybrid. Through all of this Tsui continued to be the leading force in the evolution of wuxia films. He produced Swordsman 2 (1991) and a number of wuxia remakes including Dragon Inn (1992), Burning Paradise (1994), and The Blade (1995). This latter film was a remake of Chang Cheh's One-Armed Swordsman. A few other filmmakers distinguished themselves within the wuxia genre during this time including art house director Wong Kar-wai who directed Ashes of Time (1994) with Sammo Hung choreographing. Sammo choreographed a number of other wuxia films and even directed his own entitled Blade of Fury (1993).

http://www.kungfucinema.com/categories/wuxiapien.htm

[Bouncy Ball]

12. Well who knew?

Thanks, good information!

[DS1]

13. See, just like I said, only much more wordy

;-)

[Bouncy Ball]

14. Yep.

Actually I wondered where you got it that it was ancestor worship stuff and now I see!

Right when I was reading that, I was watching a scene where the guy actually puts his hand down on the surface of the lake he is about to fall into to keep himself from going into the water. Then he flips around and f-l-i-e-s up to the shore again.

That was really pushing it.

[DS1]

15. Maybe he'd just eaten some particurlary greasy Kung Po Beef

and THAT kept him off the water ;-)

[The Traveler]

16. Mythic stuff

It's no weirder than Spiderman, eh? Modern (and not so modern) mythology. Martial arts traditions are full of this stuff anyway ... they have always been closely aligned with spiritual traditions, or even magical ones. I love the old Bruce Lee flicks, but I can appreciate the more mythical wire-work intensive movies also.

[Tummler]

17. Ironically, the 1970s style is actually more modern than the wuxia style

The wuxia film has a long history in martial arts cinema: it goes at least as far back as Come Drink With Me (1966), maybe farther. Even throughout the 1970s, when more "realistic," hard-hitting kung fu films came to the fore, wuxia films were still being produced (e.g., by the Shaw Brothers studio in Hong Kong).

I don't think they were ever particularly popular in the West, so most of us were only familiar with the Bruce Lee/Five Venoms type of movies 'til the advent of the newer wuxia films and the release of the older ones on DVD.

The most significant difference between the newer wuxia films (e.g., Crouching Tiger, Hero, and House of Flying Daggers) and the older ones is their superior production values ($$$).

[Bouncy Ball]

21. I didn't know that, thanks

you must really like the genre, right?

It is interesting to know this isn't new.

[Tummler]

26. I actually prefer the more realistic style

I only started watching kung fu movies in the last couple of years, as DVDs have become widely available. As I've been amassing a DVD collection of classic martial arts films, I've picked up some of the older (late '60s through early '80s) wuxia films along with the better known, hand-to-hand kung fu flicks. They're OK, but a little goes a long way ...

If you want to know more, the link from Kung Fu Cinema posted elsewhere in this thread is a nice piece on the history of wuxia.

[laheina]

18. There are several factors at work here.

One is that some Asian mythology is incorporated into these movies. There are cultural factors at work, it's not all about the action.

Two, how many plain old fight scenes can one person stand to watch.

Three, as a martial artist, after years of practice your eye becomes faster at picking out moves and technique. It's hard to demonstrate this phenomenon to a non-practitioner.

Lastly, I *have* seen people, at times, so some pretty amazing things. Mostly talented teenagers, in perfect shape, that have been practicing for years and work out for hours every day, but still...

[Bouncy Ball]

20. I like plain old fight scenes, though!

I never tire of them. I think that's the problem I have: I enjoy the straight up fight scenes with no supernatural flying through the air added. So when I see the supernatural stuff, it kinda (just kinda, not a lot) interferes with my enjoyment. I just want to see them kick the shit out of each other NORMALLY, LOL!

[renegade000]

22. they're fantasy

how is that any different than the impossible stuff that happens in western fantasy?

[Bouncy Ball]

24. Sigh.

It's NOT, I just prefer the more realistic style of martial arts films and was ASKING where this more supernatural style came from. I got my answer a few posts above.

[renegade000]

28. haha sorry

i think i mistook your posts for the gripes of a few replies.

well you already have your answer it seems, but from my understanding it is just basically from chinese myth/legend/folklore

[Bouncy Ball]

29. No I'm sorry

I got a bit testy with you when I shouldn't have.

:hi:

[instantkarma]

23. watch Ong Bak

movie featuring Muay Thai style of fighting.Coming out in January.

<http://www.apple.com/trailers/independent/ong_bak-tlr.html/>

or

<http://www.moviesonline.ca/details_trailor.php?movie=Ong%20Bak>

[Bouncy Ball]

25. Ooo thanks!

Cheers!

[Tummler]

27. I second that

The fight sequences in Ong Bak are amazing.

[EstimatedProphet]

30. There are actually some people that believe this stuff

I used to subscribe to an aikido mailing list, and there were people on there that believed that, at the most advanced levels of martial arts, people attained supernatural powers and could fly and teleport and all the bizarre stuff you see in those movies. There was no talking (or laughing) them out of it either. Apparently some people just want to believe in it.
I personally don't givve it any credence of course, and really couldn't care less if people believe in the mythology. The only thing that I find irritating about it, by relation, is that I think those movies give people a tendency to believe that the eastern martial arts make people superwarriors, and that they are far superior to western martial arts. It's kind of annoying if you study both.