Looking for my own way back to God.

[coloradodem2005]

Inspired by the fundamentalism post, I would like to itemize why I quit going to church.

1. Afraid of social change
2. Everything is predetermined. It is all "God's Will". I hate Calvinism.
3. Bait and switch. They talk as though they love you for who you are and then when you are in, they try to make you conform to their will.
4. Hypocrisy. They make broad generalizations about things and violate them all of the time.
5. They think women are 2nd class citizens. That wives should submit to their husbands.
6. They think gays are 2nd class citizens. THink they need to "stay in the closet".
7. Their God of "Love" seems more like a God of hate. They use their religion to preach hate against women, gays and muslims.
8. They base it on fear.


The thing is, I believe that there is a God. I cannot articulate why, but I do. I am now trying to get back to a spiritual perspective that is more based on hope than it is on fear and on kindness rather than hate. It is a difficult task. Especially now. Partly because of those who make themselves known and because I have a lot of demons. Both with my personal life and because of those goddamn Republicans.

[RUDUing2]

1. two places you might want to check out..

UU and Episcopal..

[coloradodem2005]

2. I get emails from Sojourners.

n/t

[Walt Starr]

3. I've been there before

It took me a lot of years to finally decide that I wasn't searching for God, I had known him very well. What I was really searching for was Goddess.

That was my spritiual path, anyway, your milage will probably vary.

[coloradodem2005]

5. Goddess?

What do you mean?

[RUDUing2]

11. there is also a feminine deity...you can't find God w/out realizing that

God includes Goddess...just as human includes male and female..

it is the reason I stay in the RCC..cause I need the emphasis on Mary..the acknowledgement that women matter..(even if the RCC doesn't carry it through completely they are the only church that acknowledges that there were females too in the story of Christ)....

[Walt Starr]

17. I reject the dualistic nature of the Divine as "good and evil"

as presented by the "monotheistic" faiths. It doesn't work for me nor does it fit with the world as it is.

The dualistic nature of the divine which I find relative to my life is the masculine and the feminine, hence I practice the pantheistic faith of Wicca, placing faith in The Goddess and The God.

Once I found the Feminine in the Divine, my spiritual nature was complete.

Definitely not a spiritual path for everybody, but it works for me.

[orpupilofnature57]

24. what if GOD IS VOID OF SEX, it's just a human thing. e.o.m

[Walt Starr]

40. All representations of the divine throughout human history

have placed human attributes upo the divine.

It is within human nature to relate to divinity which demonstrates human attributes.

[indigobusiness]

29. I'm curious Walt. What would you say to a view that sees the Divine

as beyond duality and gender?

[Walt Starr]

39. IF it works for you, GREAT

It would not work for me.

[indigobusiness]

44. Ok. But I didn't mean on a personal level.

I was curious about conceptual distinction.

[JVS]

4. What church were you going to that taught those things?

Did you ever ask the cleric about it?

[RUDUing2]

7. sounds like Church of Christ to me..not United Church of Christ..

just Church of Christ..very fundie..believe that only 144,000 will go to heaven, already detirmined, etc...

[coloradodem2005]

8. It was an evangelical church.

The pastors taught them. THis is why I have in the past come off as being extremely disaffected and turned off with God and all of this stuff.

[JVS]

13. Any denomination?

[coloradodem2005]

16. It was "non-denominational".

It was a community church, however, it is presbyterian in origin.

[JVS]

22. There are a lot of different presbyterian factions

I don't know where to tell you to go.

I was raised in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (a liberal church akin to Episcopalians), where Evangelical has to do with a 16th century movement (the original term for Lutheran was Evangelical, the term Lutheran was originally a slur) within Christianity rather than a late-20th century movement. Recently I've been going to a church that is part of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, which is a more conservative branch of Lutheranism. The reason that I started going there was purely a matter of convenience. They have a Wednesday evening service and Sunday mornings are often difficult for me to make. After a few weeks of comparing it with various ELCA congregations, I decided to stick with it because I found two aspects that I greatly prefered. The liturgy was done in the formal style on which I was raised and am more comfortable, the preaching was more serious and urged a higher degree of self-examination. I was able to get more out of it, even if the church does not reflect my views 100%.

Personally I'm not to keen on the whole shopping around to find a church that fits one's beliefs completely. We don't seek doctors that always say that we are healthy, and neither should we seek spiritual guidance that will just back us up on what we're doing anyway.

[Roaming]

6. Please don't let bad church experiences get in the way of

a loving relationship with your Savior. He loves you and died for you; believe in Him and you'll be saved. (John 3:16).

I can speak from experience with my own church that there ARE good, loving churches in the world, who practice what they preach.

God bless,

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. Look in your own heart

and you will find God there. Hope you find a spiritual path that can help you with your demons. It can be done-I know from experience.

If you'd like to get a spiritual experience without judgement, hypocrisy, etc, try the Dances of Universal Peace. All are welcome, and all spiritual paths are honored in simple movements some call 'body prayer'.

[seeker4ever]

10. Clean your slate

I understand your frustration and anger. As "I" see it everyone's "religion" is an unconsious reflection of themselves.

For me nature and science are my anchors in finding my spiritual way. I personally believe that good/bad, right/wrong, love/hate etc. must coexist. I have moved away from anthapomorphic concepts of God. I trust creation with my whole heart. In the moral arena I let compassion be my guide. There are no hard rules but rather an evolution toward personal integrity and strength.

The Christian right is, of course, neither.

[LSparkle]

12. You don't have to go to church to worship God

I do it while I'm on the freeway or taking a walk or painting a picture. I was raised in a UCC church but no longer attend (although if I feel a need for fellowship, that's probably where I'd go). The problem with organized religion is that it often requires you to overlook things about a particular congregation that make you feel uncomfortable and I don't think God wants anyone to feel that way when they're communing with Him. Do-it-yourself worship -- - works for me.

[Taverner]

14. If you find God, tell me where he is...

I feel the same way you do, brother. I've checked out the UCC and Unitarians and although they are better than most, color me a little leery...

[Roaming]

20. God says He's embedded into the fabric of creation itself...

For since the creation of the world, God's invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have clearly been seen, being understood through what has been made... (Romans 1:20)

Also,

"Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father!" (said by Jesus, John 14:9)

[housewolf]

15. Churches

Hi ColoradoDem2005,

I feel very much the same as you do. I was raised Catholic and spent 10 years in Catholic Girls' schools. When I was a senior in high school I realized that none of it made any sense to me and that I was leaving the church when I went away to college. I did, and I have never regretted that move.

Still, over the years, I felt a need to connect to the spiritual presence and also to join in community with others on the same path. To me, this is the real gift of religions. I explored quite a few denominations and eventually found myself at home in the Church of Religious Science and other "New Thought" churches such as Unity and others.

What I love about these churches is that they are not traditional christian churches at all but offer a teaching of God that is both personal and available. They are all about empowering people, healing, supporting others and celebrating life. Their services are joyous celebrations. There is no hint of the judgmentalism or intolerance found in traditional christain churches. Their teachings are practical - they do not ask that you take what they offer on faith.

I know of a wonderful church in Denver (actually Lakewood). If that is near you and you would like any information, please let me know and I'll give you some more info.

[donheld]

18. Too many people look for God in a church

God is in the heart not an organization.

[Skidmore]

19. I made a similar spiritual journey and arrived at an understanding

that there are many paths to God, only some of which are Christian. All people have a tremendouse amount of good in them and want to do better. They look for the goodness in themselves that is a reflection of the greater Good, for in it is we find peace, acceptance, and understanding. So today, when I see someone participating in a ritual that has meaning for them, I know they are also seeking the same thing. It is unfortunate that some of these paths have become corrupted, but that should not stop us from seeking. Nor does it permit us to force our path into someone else's way.

[orpupilofnature57]

21. GOOD ROADS YOU TRAVEL,acceptance,understanding,reflection

[amazona]

23. well I was never in a fundamentalist church

I would say I've turned away from the churches I've tried not because of the people but because God has seriously let me down. I can't do all the work. I don't feel as if I have been met halfway or even a tiny bit of the way. I've pursued religious and spiritual matters for a good part of my life, but the church as the social club or church as the lonely hearts club isn't enough so I've let it fall away. Can't really put it in words how it happened. But I think God has turned his back on this world and its creatures. I find what is beautiful in the outdoors, what little is left of it, and it just seems that the Almighty doesn't care about that, it's all about social interactions, interpersonal relations, gossip! Maybe I'll feel differently later. Right now I feel it is my duty to appreciate what is here while it's still here.

I probably have a tiny taste of what you are talking about, because one time when I was a child, we did try a traditional Baptist church because it was near our new home. Lord, it was awful! The preacher literally yelled at us -- he really did shout all that fire and brimstone crap. What is beautiful and uplifting about that? My parents quickly decided it was worth the drive across town to find a more compatible place.

[orpupilofnature57]

25. I've never been to a republican rally,they think their Americans

And i think I'm one too.

[cags]

26. I don't believe God has turned his/her back on us

Many people think God will bring them happiness.

We are not meant to live perfect happy lives. No one ever has
We are here on this earth to learn, What did you ever learn when things were perfect.

I believe we are here to learn lessons, once we learn our lesson we move on to next one. If we don't learn we keep repeating the lesson. I also believe that I chose my lessons before I came here. So instead of putting it on God, I take responsibility for my life.

So if your looking to god to bring you happiness you wont find it. I look to God to help me recognize my lessons, and help me to learn them better and give me strength to get through them.

[indigobusiness]

27. I don't believe God has a back to turn

or a gender to split.

[Az]

34. Tell that to Moses

He got to see God's butt.

Exodus 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

[indigobusiness]

35. Moses has his own cross to bear.

I'm not telling Moses nothing.

[amazona]

42. it cheapens life to call it just a "lesson"

Many people think God will bring them happiness

Then I tend to imagine those people will be quite disappointed. The churches I attended taught that we are responsible for creating our own happiness in this life. As far as God goes...well...he doesn't call, he doesn't write...so you'd be waiting an awful long time if you didn't take the initiative and do the work yourself, wouldn't you?

I believe we are here to learn lessons, once we learn our lesson we move on to next one. If we don't learn we keep repeating the lesson. I also believe that I chose my lessons before I came here. So instead of putting it on God, I take responsibility for my life.

Here it is, the one attitude that finally drove me away from my last church, a New Age community -- the attitude that life is not real, it is just a cheesy schoolroom. I was frustrated and bemused so often by people, who often appeared and at times almost certainly were delusional, who made such claims as they picked their parents, they "chose" their station in life before they were born, etc.

Since I was born with a congenital health condition, I did not have the luxury of believing such cruel nonsense.

My life is not about being taught a lesson for things I did or chose in some other time before birth I can't remember. My life is not about being taught lessons for some time after I'm dead and gone.

My life is about what is good and beautiful today.

And I don't find anything good and beautiful in kidding myself that I'm God just because I noticed that every time I said my prayers I ended up talking to myself.

No, God has some responsibility here too. When we devote years and decades of our lives to seeking the truth, it is at the very least quite discourteous for God to continue playing hide and seek. We seem to be doing all the work here while God stands back and doesn't even trouble himself to exist.

This strikes me as unfair on the face of it.

Anyhoo, I realize that my view is unpopular if not downright odd. I share it not to convert but to explain where I'm coming from.

[indigobusiness]

28. Find whatever metaphorical framework ...

allows you to connect to what you deeply sense as sacred. Cultivate that.

It is nature, for many. For you, it might be organized religion.

It might be bowling...Who knows?

[Az]

30. Dude/tte You are a UU and just don't know it

It amazes me that the remnants of the Democratic party have not entirely shifted to UUism(Unitarian Universalism) yet. Its practically a church based on our policies. It embraces tolerance and open mindedness. It welcomes theist and nontheist. It even opens its arms to polytheists.

Checkem out http://www.uua.org/

[quaker bill]

31. You sound like you could be a Quaker

We often pioneer social change. We find God to be present and active in people's lives today. We welcome all. All are seen as equals in the eyes of god. Women have been considered equal to men for 350 years. We hold that faith is best evidenced by the things you do. We "live simply that others may simply live". We oppose all manners of warfare.

Your checklist is a common description of the factors that motivate most people I have known to join Quaker Meeting.

You can find us at: http://www.quakerfinder.org

7 meetings are listed in Colorado.

[Cronus Protagonist]

32. Hope is icing on shit

Hope is only needed when there is despair. In fact, hope creates and builds despair while the hoped for object of your desire continues to not show up.

IMHO, you would get better mileage out of a religion if it inspired joy, laughter and happiness. Maybe you might try an eastern religion.




http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!

[Az]

33. Hope is a little more complex than that

Your cynicism is showing. Hope is necissary or all is futility. Hope can lend strength but it can also precede a great fall. Hope grows from joy, laughter and happiness. And like them its effects are multiplied when shared.

[Cronus Protagonist]

36. Not at all

If you have what you desire, hope is not present. If you have a way to get what you desire and you are in action, hope is not present, the will to power is in action.

Hope is only present in those that yearn for something and can't/don't have it. So hope is only held by powerless people who don't have what they desire. People in despair, in fact.




http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!

[Az]

38. Indeed

The trouble with being human, in fact the quitiscential aspect of being human is not knowing. We may be in need of something but we may not know how to go about achieving or getting it. If there is no hope then you are left with a nihilistic little funk with no possible escape. The first step in solving an issue is taken in ignorance. We don't know and it is hope that allows us to make that first step. It may lead to enough knowledge to further our quest or it may lead to more questions. But without hope the journey will never begin.

[LWolf]

37. There are so many paths to

God; all, imo, are equally valid. If you are feeling "separated," and needing to reconnect, there are so many ways to do so that don't include the black/white literal rigid structures that have turned you away.

I am spiritual, but aligned with no religion in particular.

You might start by attending interfaith services; look for the interfaith council in your local area. You can listen to all of the different messages for what seems to resonate with you.

Check out the UUs; they have an awesome set of principles, and statement of purpose:

http://www.uua.org/aboutuua/principles.html

<snip>

We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, covenant to affirm and promote

* The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
* Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
* Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
* A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
* The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
* The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
* Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

The living tradition which we share draws from many sources:

* Direct experience of that transcending mystery and wonder, affirmed in all cultures, which moves us to a renewal of the spirit and an openness to the forces which create and uphold life;
* Words and deeds of prophetic women and men which challenge us to confront powers and structures of evil with justice, compassion, and the transforming power of love;
* Wisdom from the world's religions which inspires us in our ethical and spiritual life;
* Jewish and Christian teachings which call us to respond to God's love by loving our neighbors as ourselves;
* Humanist teachings which counsel us to heed the guidance of reason and the results of science, and warn us against idolatries of the mind and spirit.
* Spiritual teachings of earth-centered traditions which celebrate the sacred circle of life and instruct us to live in harmony with the rhythms of nature.

Grateful for the religious pluralism which enriches and ennobles our faith, we are inspired to deepen our understanding and expand our vision. As free congregations we enter into this covenant, promising to one another our mutual trust and support.

[GOPBasher]

41. Not all churches are like that... Here are a few places you might look.

Liberal Christian denominations: United Church of Christ and Episcopalian. Also, you may want to check out a Unitarian church. It's non-denominational; it seems perfect for you, since you said you want to find your "own way back to God."

[progmom]

43. I hear you.

If you're interested, I'll tell you about my experience.

-I too believe that there is a God.

-I believe that God is love, and that He can be found in every expression of love.

-I love what Anne LaMott said, that her two most powerful prayers are: "Please, please, please," and "Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!"

-It feels to me that Christ was telling us that the most important thing for us to do is to have a personal relationship with God. Church can be good for me to keep His message more front of mind, and to learn more specifics about his teachings, but if months go by with no church for me, I don't really feel too guilty.

-As a Christian, my most important mission is to be caring and supportive and forgiving of others. Christ said that the two most important things we should take from the Old Testament is to love God and love our neighbors. This includes trying to help people who are homeless or hungry, offering a shoulder to people who are sad, trying to understand the perspective of people who are hurting you, and ultimately trying to forgive them.

-I'm (generally) very quiet about my faith. (It's been a little harder lately, just on DU, because I have felt the need to defend left-leaning Christians) I would never deny being a Christian, but I also would never feel comfortable bringing it up out of context.

-I don't do this because of some fear of missing out on heaven when it's all over. I do it because it truly makes me feel better about myself. It's also very comforting to know that I am never alone. Even in my darkest hours, I feel God with me.

When I attend church, I go to a United Methodist Church. We have women clergy, the church is very inclusive reagarding homosexuality. My brother is gay, and it's a very important topic for me. Also - Methodists aren't Calvinists.