what is it with all the whining about Christians on DU?

[ulysses]

If someone is progressive and isn't proselytizing, why do we care about their religion?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

1. Because there's quite a few that proselytize

and it's annoying as hell.

[ulysses]

4. who here is proselytizing?

I've never seen it.

[Zenlitened]

5. Unfortunately, we can't answer that question...

... without violating DU rules! :D

[Kathy in Cambridge]

8. Because we have threads like this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x2265759

I'm Catholic, BTW, and I'm sick of the whining.

[ulysses]

12. how is that proselytizing?

:shrug:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

13. It's whining

which is just as bad.

[ulysses]

14. oh, ok.

:eyes:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

16. Tyranny of the majority

saying things like stealing a baby Jesus from a manger is as bad as a swatstika in a Jewish cemetary. Inserting a religious argument into a secular thread. This is a political discussion board.

[ulysses]

17. stealing a plastic baby Jesus

is obviously not the same as painting swastikas in Jewish cemetaries. I would question the progressiveness of a person who held that opinion.

BUT, to go from that to a generalization about "Christians" doesn't seem particularly progressive either.

Inserting a religious argument into a secular thread. This is a political discussion board.

Plenty of progressive activists are so because of their beliefs. I believe firmly in the separation of church and state, but to expect that DUers never bring up religion in political discussions, especially when we have the kind of fundies in power that we do now, is unrealistic.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

30. I'm progressive because I'm Catholic

I was raised during the time when liberation theology was popular. I don't think they shouldn't bring up religion. I'm saying they shouldn't shove it down people's throats.

[Joe Chi Minh]

65. You're the one that's whining, girl.

What are you an atheist or a Christian? make up your mind. Have the courage of your convictions for goodness sake. You're hot on the expletives, but not much else.

In the UK, atheists don't whine and grizzle, because they're effectively in the majority. Nobody whines about Christians because they don't figure on the radar. It's the paranoid, young atheists on your side of the pond, who whine about Christians persecuting them. Apart from fence-sitters, that is, who want to sympathise with them.
Let me wish you a happy holiday, Catholic girl. I can't imagine you'll take exception to that, in sympathy with your soul-mates.

[TexasBushwhacker]

25. I'm betting that Greyfox does nothing but

whine and proselytize. He only has 400+ posts, but I can't do an advanced search today.

[Bertha Venation]

23. I've never seen any proselytizing.

Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong places. I wish you could point me to a few threads but it would probably break DU rules. :shrug:

[shrike]

27. Me, neither

It's a mystery to me, frankly.

[jonnyblitz]

2. because they start threads claiming they are persecuted on DU

simple.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

3. Exactly

whine, schmein. Cry me a fucking river.

They should put their energy toward imitating Christ's works, not imitating fundie indignation.

[bettyellen]

21. Pithy ! ... imitating fundie indignation! good one !

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

40. You don't imitate what you already are. (nt)

[CatWoman]

6. feed their asses to the lions

:D

[Kathy in Cambridge]

9. That's Christian genocide!

Don't you know? Stealing baby Jesus from the manger is a hate crime too! :crazy:

[ulysses]

15. no! feed them to the possums!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=2274027&mesg_id=2274149

:D

[CatWoman]

26. and don't forget the grits!!!!

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

possum, collards and grits!! the breakfast of champions!!! :D

[La Lioness Priyanka]

7. it is intellectually dishonest to claim discrimination when you are

the powerful majority!

thats why the whining

[jonnyblitz]

10. another GOOD point!

:thumbsup:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

11. thank you

[TexasBushwhacker]

18. Excellent point!

It reminds me of the white guys whining about reverse discrimination when the good ol' boy network doesn't work for them anymore.

[txaslftist]

22. danged liberals is why.

danged liberals has taken over this country.
used to be on a Saturday night a good honest christian man could go out an' injoy a good lynchin' or a cross bernin' without some lawyer from the ACLU or the NAACP coming in an cryin' and whinin' in front of some jewish fedr'l judge, is why.

Hell, now they got whites and blacks gettin' married to each other and makin' little speckled babies -like that ain't agin' the Lord's word! Puttin' the mark o' Cain on em like that.

The liberals has taken over the democrat party, and they're stealin' plastic jesuses out'n the Holy Creches on peoples lawns, is why.

You people need to git ediccated.

[ProfessorGAC]

32. Well, Now I'm "Ediccated"

Thanks for the post. I had everything all wrong, what with the treating everyone the same regardless of color, or creed, or gender.

Now, you've set me straight! Now, if i only had a white sheet!

Good job!
The Professor

[txaslftist]

37. I kin gitchu one.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

39. yep if the lord wanted them races mixin he woullda made us all grey

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

41. An dem lawyers is all JOOS! They killed JEEZAZ! Mel Gibson told me so! -nt

[JohnKleeb]

34. which is why I don't get these angry white males

Hey yinz rule the country, chill out.

[realisticphish]

61. im just as damned to hell

(according to fundies) as you are...trust me, liberal christians are NOT the powerful majority


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[TreasonousBastard]

19. We don't, but...

what's with the whining about the whining?

Sometimes it's mildly irritating to see some rebel without a clue piss and moan about mythical figures and the ignorance of the religious, but big deal. A lot of comments about a lot of subjects here are mildly irritating, and show more of the ignorance of the poster.

But, so it goes.

Anyway, there have been quite a few serious religious discussions around here, and the twits are easy to ignore.

[ulysses]

20. no, no - I'm whining about the whining about the whining.

Try to keep it straight. :D

[TreasonousBastard]

24. Oh, OK...

whining about whiners whining about...

I think I got it.

[shrike]

29. So where are the serious discussions about religion?

I believe you when you say there have been, but it's been my experience that they turn into p*ssing contests and name-calling. Then again, I've been making a concerted effort to ignore religious threads for that reason, so maybe I've missed a few serious ones. In fact, I'm breaking my own rule by posting in this one.

[TreasonousBastard]

48. There's some in the religion forum...

and there used to be a few in the Lounge. Some still pop up.

Granted there's little heavy theological discussion, but at least in the religion forum moderators often nuke the "Religion sucks and is for assholes" type of postings. Keeps things quieter and on point.

FWIW, I know of at least two ordained ministers on this board, and I've met them. They are great people, but tend to not stick their noses into the religion threads.

[RevCheesehead]

63. .

:hi: Now you've met a third!

[TreasonousBastard]

64. Gladtameetcha, Rev...

I've broken bread with the other two and, based on that small and unscientific sampling, we're lucky to have all you preachers on board.

[SOteric]

28. Ya see why I love you?

:hug:

[ulysses]

53. back at you, dear one

:loveya:

[Karenina]

31. Fine, but does it have to come up in conversation

every other second? Just for the record, some of us are not Christian, I got no problem if it floats your boat but can't religion be discussed in the privacy of your homes and churches? :shrug: :argh: :argh: :argh:

[ulysses]

45. I don't mean to be sharp,

but I've heard much the same comments about homosexuality...:shrug:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

49. have people come up to your doorstep and asked you to convert to

homosexuality?

do people tell you that you will go to hell unless you believe and practise homosexuality?

[ulysses]

50. no. I didn't say that they did.

You might like to read the post to which I was responding.

Fine, but does it have to come up in conversation every other second? Just for the record, some of us are not Christian, I got no problem if it floats your boat but can't religion be discussed in the privacy of your homes and churches?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

51. you know you are right...i am wrong...i agree with you on this one

i dont know why...i was just pointing out (more in sarcasm) that the people who say "dont flaunt your gayness" are more flaunting of their own lifestyle choice (religion) than i am of mine.

[ulysses]

52. I agree with you there.

:)

[Karenina]

54. Apples and mashed potatoes.

There is no entrenched, authoritarion structure to an expression of sexual preferences. There is no "gay agenda" other than to be respected as a human being. I've NEVER had a gay person get up in my face and condemn me to HADES unless I changed my sexual preference.

[ulysses]

55. I was replying to what you write in #31.

Fine, but does it have to come up in conversation every other second? Just for the record, some of us are not Christian, I got no problem if it floats your boat but can't religion be discussed in the privacy of your homes and churches?

[Karenina]

57. Heh?

:shrug: Whatever. You've obviously never been badgered by X-tians. It is quite an annoyance.

[ulysses]

59. but I have been.

It *is* annoying to be badgered by anyone. I just haven't seen any Christians on DU badgering anyone. Show me where they are so I can help badger them back.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

33. Hide thread isn't working and frankly as a gay person

I am sick and fucking tired of Christians pretending they are persecuted. Unless one of them can show me the nail marks from their time up on the cross they should STFU or post at Beliefnet.com....

[arwalden]

35. :-)

:loveya:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

38. Explain how a guy that hung out his entire adult life with 12 men

and never married is an icon for homophobia

[Kathy in Cambridge]

42. *snort*

you're awesome!

[JohnKleeb]

43. its a very ironic thing

Pat Robertson disses long haired bearded hippie types on TV the other night, and yet the image of Christ that most westerners know is just that of a long, haired bearded hippie type.

[ulysses]

47. I genuinely don't see the claims of persecution here, Teena.

In the country at large, from the fundies? Of course. Here, I see folks like Lydia, Julsy and IAmJacksSmirkingRevenge, good progressives all and not one a homophobe to my knowledge, bearing this kind of stuff in silence, for the most part. I don't see the point in lumping them in with all of Christendom and painting a big progressive target on it.

Ok, I just remembered - there is one active lounge thread that could be seen as a persecution thread. One.

[jonnyblitz]

56. well I genuinely DO see the claims.

and just because you happen to see "one, just one" active thread today doesn't mean it's the first and only one that ever was posted in the history of DU. And the DUers you mention who"must bear this stuff in silence" probably realize (if they even post here anymore, I never see those screennames) we are NOT referring to them if they aren't the ones whining about being persecuted!! stop insinuating we are lying or delusional!!

[ulysses]

58. sit down, have some dip.

and just because you happen to see "one, just one" active thread today doesn't mean it's the first and only one that ever was posted in the history of DU.

This is true.

if they even post here anymore, I never see those screennames

They do indeed.

we are NOT referring to them if they aren't the ones whining about being persecuted!!

I can tell you that there are feelings being hurt unnecessarily. Why not make the distinction yourself?

stop insinuating we are lying or delusional!!

I wasn't. Don't get your panties all in a twist.

[miss_kitty]

36. meh!

[Modem Butterfly]

44. Why do you hate America so?

Someone had to say it.

:P

Merry Christmas Uly!

:hi:

[hyphenate]

46. Well, I want to be flippant

but I think I will go for a less flip answer. :)

There are a good many religious threads on DU, but I wouldn't say they're overwhelming.

The problem that I see, in the general overview of politics in America right now is that most of those on the radical religious right is that they have become emboldened to sticking their noses, faces, and every other part of their unholy beings into the affairs of others because they seem to believe, for some godawful reason (and yes the pun is intended), that GWB is the second coming of Christ. Nevermind his policies, never mind all the shit he's put us through, nevermind that he is the most corrupt and evil bastard to ever hold the highest office in our country. Those on the RRR have invented their own myths about the "end of the world" scenario, and are determined to make it come true.

50 years ago, even this whole "Rapture" shit was non-existent for the majority of people. 50 years ago, the RRR was only a small subsection of the entire Christian religion. It's because they have the strongest intolerance, the strongest desires to eradicate anyone who disagrees with them that they have come further than any one of us would have believed. They are pushy, determined, and have enough resources to push their agenda than the rest of us. They started out small, and through constant presence have furthered that agenda so it's literally in our faces.

We LET them get this far. We essentially ignored their rise to power, and many of us merely laughed when Jerry Falwell was pushing his "Moral Majority" shit, when we would post bumperstickers that read: "The Moral Majority is neither." Because of our dismissal of the entire movement, we allowed a lot of it to take hold. We laughed when Rush Limbaugh got on radio, instead of taking him and his vitriol seriously. We laughed when several of these evangelical pompous asses got caught with prostitutes, and we laughed when Jim and Tammy Fay got powerful and managed to build their "empire" on the shoulders of many who blindly followed them.

Essentially, we failed to let the phenomenon register in our minds as a threat. Those who had enough faith to follow their own beliefs didn't even give these people a second thought, thinking that they were still a minority, without any real power or hold. Those who weren't religious dismissed them as kooks.

We failed to realize that in dangerous times, people do dangerous things, and having a "cult-like" religious group to follow let a lot of these people transfer their misgivings to the rest of us, who didn't "believe" in the "truth."

They are still, in many ways, a minority. But they are a very vocal group, far more than the rest of us. They are still not the "moral majority" nor will they ever be. But they now have advocates in high places, like the chimp, like Asscroft, and of course the wealthy evangelists who helped build their foundation. And they've got enough money and power to keep themselves in what amounts to the appearance of more power.

We let them do it, not once taking them as seriously as we should have in the past 30 years. If we had known that they would have gotten this far in that length of time, we could have taken the issue a lot more seriously, and shown the world what ignorant bastards the radical religious right really is.

[RetroLounge]

60. We don't. Well, at least I don't.

It's less about proselytizing, more about whining, false-persecution, arrogance and plain old fundy bullshit disguised as a DU'er.

I could point them out, but I would get banned.

RL

[Bridget Burke]

62. "Christmas Under Attack" is the latest version of ...

"Christianity Under Attack". The first article I've found on how Christmas is being destroyed was published by the Concerned Women For America Website about a year ago:

www.cwfa.org/articles/5040/CFI/misc/

CWFA was founded by Beverly LaHaye to combat the Equal Rights Amendment. She & her husband Tim (co-author of the "Left Behind" books) were educated at Bob Jones University & are leaders of the Dominionists. That's the movement that's politicized conservative Christianity in recent years. (If you click on the above site, other links will explain things even more; there's a link to GOPUSA explaining how the ACLU is behind it all.)

This theme has reappeared all over the 'net, on your local Editorial page & (I'm told by those who watch) on the more offensive cable new shows. It's a good story for the media, because they can avoid distasteful subjects like the continuing disaster in Iraq & Bush's latest plans to destroy our economy & environment.