Jeez, my buddy needs to stop drinking

[HEyHEY]

We went over to his family Christmas. When he opened the door I could tell he was FUCKED. The rest of the night my buddy and I spent baby-sitting him. We tried so hard to keep him from drinking more and we wouldn't let him go upstairs and all this. It finally boiled over and his brother in law (A cop) and Brother came down to talk to him.
His brother pointed out "Look at you, you're begging for booze."
It was like a mini-intervention. At least the BIL is a cop so he knows how to deal with drunks.

BUt my other friend and I decided were not going out for beers with him anymore..or any drinking.

I've never seen anything that bad..he was stumbling and falling over in front of his relatives and everything.

[Skittles]

1. sounds like he needs help

try to see that he gets it

[HEyHEY]

2. I think this will be something serious

I really think he needs an intervention.

[Skittles]

5. do it

I wish you luck; my brother drank himself to death a month ago - my mum and brothers had tried to talk to him but nothing worked

[OldLeftieLawyer]

15. It's horrible

I have an old friend - married 36 years (!) to a woman who just managed to drink herself to death a month ago. Poor guy had a hell of life, married to someone like that.

The kids are doing a great job of taking care of their father right now, but, they've both confided to me that they're relieved that she's gone.

Imagine your kids feeling better that you're dead.................

[Skittles]

26. it's strange OldLeftie

one of my first thoughts when I heard the news was "I'll never have to worry about him again." Sad but true. :(

[Lone_Star_Dem]

28. You can't help someone who's not ready to stop.

All the love in the world is not enough. It has to come from within the person with the problem. :hug:

[Skittles]

30. I know that

but intervention SOMETIMES works, if you can convince THEM to see the problem in themselves

[Must_B_Free]

3. sounds like he was only trying to have a good time

who wants cops coming down on them?

[HEyHEY]

4. He was so bad we figured one more and he'd be in the hospital

Good thing he's a happy drunk

[Cooley Hurd]

11. The story of Nino Valenti...

In the book, "The Godfather," Johnny Fontaine's singing partner, Nino Valenti, drank himself to death on purpose - a slow-motion suicide. Anytime someone drinks themselves into a blackout indicates a larger problem.

[Bouncy Ball]

6. Boy can I relate.

Not because I was an alcoholic, but I had a stepfather who was. Sheesh.

There was one Christmas when he was drunker than Cooter Brown and my grandfather got a treadmill that year and Drunk Stepfather decided to show off how great he was on the treadmill.

He FLEW off of it and landed face down at the end of it, with his chin just bopping away on the end of the treadmill. His face was all banged up and he was bleeding but he didn't even seem to know or care.

Other family members started taking the little kids in other parts of the house so they couldn't see him. Another time he showed up with his pants half undone and when he walked in, he walked sliding against the wall, which was holding him up as he walked.

The worst was when he decided to try to kill himself with drinking, literally commit suicide with it. So he drank a few gallons of vodka in 30 minutes but on his way to the closet where he was going to lie down and die, he sliced his foot on a cat food can. He tried to clean it up, but everything he picked up had cat hair all over it so it didn't do any good. My brother found him unconscious and bleeding everywhere a few minutes later. He was revived in the ER with a blood alcohol level of .58. Yeah. He lived.

It's nasty stuff, alcoholism. Nasty stuff. Sorry for the downer stories.

[HEyHEY]

7. See my buddy is like that

We tell him he's gonna kill himself and he says "I don't care."

It's not mellowdrama - he just doesn't actually believe he will kill himself so he pretends he doesn't care.

[Bouncy Ball]

8. Mmmm.....

he sounds fairly bad, to tell you the truth. I saw that in my stepdad, too.

He has been an alcoholic since 1977, at least. He has "wet brain," organic brain damage brought on by all the years of drinking. He lost the company he owned in 1999 and then he tried to teach for a couple of years (high school math!!!!) and he lost his teaching contract due to showing up drunk.

Now he is employed sweeping a warehouse. At the height of his career, he was making $250,000 a year. He is one step away from being on the street, drinking out of a bottle in a brown paper bag. The only reason he has the job he has now is the boss owed his dad (still living, in his 80s) a favor. He sleeps on the couch in the office at night because he has nowhere else to go. He still drinks.

Sometimes he doesn't know his full name and often he doesn't know where he is, even the rare times he is somewhat sober. He was once a brilliant, wonderful man. Has a PhD in Mathematics.

[NuttyFluffers]

10. whoa... now that's a bad case.

and BAC of .58?!?! that's clinical death for people, unless you have an ungodly level of tolerance -- which sounds like he does. unbelievable. if he ever quit cold turkey he'd die from the shock of withdrawal, i'm sure of it. there really is a potential for death from quitting cold turkey on alcohol, but for the more addicted of personalities. he sounds like he's on the far edge of the bell curve on that. whoo... his liver must be screaming, if not already dying.

i've always considered alcohol one of the harshest recreational drugs out there, up there with heroin and cocaine. it is a cruel master. if only he could have substituded this addiction for something "milder"... like quaaludes or valium or barbituates. gah, that's such a nasty addiction he has. i don't know if there's help for him at this point, and that perhaps is the saddest thing to say about this.

if someone had the spare money to get him into a clinic where they detox him and replace all his receptors, now choked with alcohol's addiction molecules, with a blocker, then maybe he might get some part of his life back. but it sounds like too much damage has been done.

[Bouncy Ball]

13. Oh yeah, the nurses nicknamed him "Lazarus"

because they felt he rose from the dead. The doctor took me out in the hall to tell me his blood alcohol level and I couldn't even process a number that high at first. The doctor said "I've seen corpses with BAL's lower than that. I don't know how he's alive."

By the way, the doctor was really disgusted with my stepdad throughout and I can't say I blame him. At one point, he started mumbling to himself (the doctor) about little kids with cancer who didn't do a thing to deserve it and here's this guy trying to kill himself with alcohol.

They had to sew up his toe, it was cut pretty badly. He actually felt it. They strapped him down and my stepfather kept looking at me and slurring "Tell that doctor he's an asshole!" It was so freaking embarrassing. Then he kept demanding the nurses kiss him.

He went to Copak after that. It's a hardcore detox center in Mississippi, called the Betty Ford of the South. He was there for three months, inpatient. After insurance, it was $60,000 and his elderly dad paid it. Then he transitioned to a halfway house, then an apartment with a roommate further along in the program. He talked the roommate into drinking again and soon he was kicked out of the program altogether.

He's been in various detox programs a total of 17 times. Fallen off the wagon every single time. He's been jailed for DWI, public intoxication, resisting arrest, and one more serious sentence for assaulting a police officer and a woman at the strip club he was at.

What's really sad is what he once was. When I first met him I was five and he was an amazing man. He had written this incredible dissertation having something to do with theoretical mathematics and had been offered a teaching position at Stanford. But he met my mom on a blind date. She was 24, blond, green eyes, petite, absolutely drop dead gorgeous and charming. And mentally unbalanced, but he didn't know that at first. He had been a very sheltered person all his life and fell so hard for her, he gave up the teaching offer to stay and work for his dad's company here. She just saw him as a meal ticket. She encouraged him to drink, he was an overnight dad to two, and hated his job. She got worse and worse and I'm sure I don't need to go on. He probably already had addictive tendencies, but I'm saddened to think what his life could have been like.

Anyway, he's almost 60 now and a shell of a person. His liver, believe it or not, has been amazingly resilient, but the alcohol has severely affected his mind. He is barely functioning. They divorced in 1999 and then remarried each other the very next year, but now they are separated again.

[NuttyFluffers]

25. my god, that sounds like a case of past-life karma

everything lost for a sickly-dependent, all-consuming love. use, abuse, and ending in waste. so sad. at this point all involve probably realize that there is nothing anyone can do -- you are witnessing something beyond anyone's capacity to fix. like moths to flame they consume themselves in their dance towards entropy. tragically, you can only stand back and watch.

and to think, if it was one of the many other drugs it'd probably not end this way. few drugs are as destructive and cruel as alcohol (it's a shame too because some of it is soooo tasty).

[goodbody]

9. Believe him

when he says he doesn't care.

On a subconscious level, he has already determined that he cannot and/or will not (maybe a more important early determination) stop drinking in time to save his life.

It is mellowdrama - you are probably too young to determine that he has not only verbalized his intentions - he is acting on them. This person is so fortunate to have friends like you to help stablize him.

Best wishes to you!

[soothsayer]

12. some people don't do well with holidays and family

[tjdee]

14. Why do people drink in the first place?

There's no logical reason. And I drink a bit. I don't even have a good reason I drink.

The thing is, when people get like that they think it's normal.
Two friends of mine shouldn't be drinking anymore, but they disagree because they're "just having a good time like everyone else." One blacks out all the time, but he thinks it's just par for the course and not a big deal. I worry about both, though I've not hung out with them in some time and both are getting married/had a kid so maybe they've wisened up a bit.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

16. A question for everyone

Do you think alcoholism is a disease?

Or is it a conscious choice?

[tjdee]

19. It's your choice to start drinking--my father is an alcoholic.

It's an addiction, I don't know if I'd say it's a disease.

I have self-imposed limits on how much I will drink, in part because my father was/is an alcoholic. Knowing about alcohol, certainly it's in my (or anyone's) control whether to drink or not in the first place.

No one chooses to be addicted....tough question.

[Bouncy Ball]

20. I think, like all addictions, it is a

spiritual disease. A disease of the emotions, the spirit, and of course it comes to infect the body, too.

[ernstbass]

21. Definately a disease

I come to this conclusion after witnessing alcoholism in my family - and it certainly effects the choices one makes

[yardwork]

22. It's a chronic disease. Alcoholics can't be cured but we can stop

As an alcoholic in recovery I feel like I have diabetes or some other chronic disease. It's up to me to take care of myself by not drinking and doing the other steps that help in recovery.

As for being a choice, I don't know. I can't remember how old I was when I had my first drink. My parents gave me little glasses of wine when I was a toddler. When I was stressed as a kid my mother would say, "have a little beer and you'll feel better," as she poured some of her drink into a little glass for me.

By the time I was eighteen I was drinking into blackouts. I slowed down in my thirties but picked right back up again and finally quit forever (I hope and pray) when I was forty.

[Bouncy Ball]

27. One day at a time yard

one day at a time. I am in a 12 step group too, though not for alcohol.

[nicolemrw]

23. true alcoholism is a disease

but there are people who are just heavy drinkers, but not alcoholics, who if given a strong enough motive, can just stop cold turkey. i've known two people like that now. unfortunatly if you have to live with them, theres not much difference between the true alcoholic and the heavy drinker who could stop. both are pretty miserable experiences.

[Mallifica]

31. it's great that

your are skilled and educated enough to know the difference. Bravo.

[nicolemrw]

33. was that sarcastic?

because i have known two people who, from all outwards appearences, were deeply alcoholic, who gave up drinking simply by stoping drinking.

on the other hand, if you look farther down this thread, you will see me advocating alanon. i've been a member for quite a few years now. and that means that i have been in contact one way or another with a lot of alcoholics. some of whom were able to stop drinking in aa. and some of whom have tried to stop drinking and been totally unable to in any way. and some of whom have not even tried.

where did i say i was able to tell the difference? as far as i know, theres no external way.

[NuttyFluffers]

29. when it hits -ism it is then a disease.

some people are predisposed to picking up this disease more than others (just like heart disease, diabetes, etc). some, who are not predisposed, can practice real hard and develop an abusive relationship with alcohol, which will rapidly devolve into the disease alcoholism. perhaps some conflate this brief moment of choosing to binge in some individuals as the primacy of conscious choice, but extrapolating it therefore to mean all alcoholism is a conscious choice is erroneous.

just like depression is a real disease, but is primarily a psychological one with physical symptoms, as is alcoholism is a psychological disease which produce physical symptoms. later alcoholism has the added bonus of giving physical diseases ontop of that, such as 'wet brain', cirrhosis, etc.

the victims of this disease rarely fair well until drastic and lasting life changes are made.

[nicolemrw]

17. alanon

the 12-step program for friends and family of alcoholics. probably saved my life. or at least my sanity. check out a few meetings.

'nuf said.

[yardwork]

18. I'm an alcoholic - almost five years in recovery now

Your friend is lucky to have people looking out for him, but ultimately it is up to him to stop drinking or not.

Good for you for taking care of him and talking to him. Encourage him to go to AA meetings. Ask him to consider going into rehab.

My next piece of unsolicited advice? If he ignores all your advice and continues to drink himself into oblivious, stand back. Separate yourself emotionally and physically from what he is doing to himself.

He will not stop drinking until he makes a decision to stop drinking. For some people that day never comes. My father drank himself to death and I have a dear friend who is doing the same.

Hugs to you.

[goodbody]

24. disease

I think it's been proven that alcoholics have genes that are predisposed to crave alcohol, so it becomes not just a mental impulse but an actual physical uncontrollable craving.

Because alcholics need medical/professional help to withdraw from alcohol, it has been considered a disease. It was added to the physician's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM) a couple of decades ago, if I recall, and has since been acknowledged as a disease.

Alcoholism never gets better (without help) and it is a progressive, fatal condition. Any progressive, potentially fatal physical condition is considered a disease.

[bettyellen]

32. my friend stopped just this tuesday because I wrote hime a letter

saying i really didn't want him to be in touch with me at all unless he wasn't drinking. my friend has started to get wet brain and gets fucking impossible to talk to. he blacked out often. he was getting alll upset because people were acting "weird and unfriendly" to him when he was wobbly and slurring midday. i knew there was a lot he was kidding himself about and or forgetting so i explained he was really hurting me and that people were not trying to be unfriendly, but nobody's happy to see you wasting your fucking life with this. i told him the same people would be thrilled to see him sober sometimes , because no one has in months. i sprinkled in a lot of i love yous. and it worked. when i thought about it, it wasn't enough not to drink with him. i had to stop the pretense completely that he was at all in control. i was shocked that he wrote me back thanking me and hasn't drank since, he's scared to death. but it's coming up on a week. i hope it sticks. he bottomed out before and had told me he had to make the decision himself. but i think good friends can have some influence. and looking the other way can be bad for everybody.
good luck hey hey, it ain't easy to say these things, i know.