Alternate history: RFK lives and wins the 1968 Dem nomination.

[ZombieNixon]

He runs against Richard Nixon in the general election. What happens? Project up until present day, do we still end up with President Chimp?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. It's Impossble To Project That Far...

but we can safely presume that had RFK lived there would be no Chappaquidick....


Because the outing at Chappaquidick was a party for the "Boilerroom Girls"-RFK's secretaries....

If RFK was alive we can presume there would have been no such outing...

[ET Awful]

3. My thinking as well . . . see my reply below n/t

[ET Awful]

2. I'd have to think about that one for a while.

He'd defeat Nixon. Obviously Watergate would never happen which means the chain of events leading to a Ford presidency would never occur. Bobby would most likely win a second term, and could potentially pave the way for Ted to become President. I say this because with an RFK administration, Ted most likely would have been somewhere else in 1969 and Chappaquidick would never have occurred.

So ideally we would have seen 8 years of RFK, then 8 years of Teddy, meaning that Reagan and Poppy Bush would have missed their shot and Dumbya wouldn't have had the recognition associated with his daddy.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. Also-RFK's Death Led To The Behavior That Led To Chappaquidick....

It is not an excuse but an explanation....


He saw two of his brothers assassinated in a five year period... That would affect anybody's behavior...

[Left Is Write]

6. What would become of Bill Clinton?

[DaveinMD]

20. Clinton would have remained a liberal

and been elected as such because liberalism would have been more popular.

[zeemike]

5. Oh wow, what a thought

But that would mean that the right wing coup failed.
And that could have lent itself to another civil war. Or perhaps a actual military takeover of this country.
But it could have also worked and made us a far better land and people that moved into the future with enthusiasm and thereby solving the problems with environment and energy.
You could write several books on that one.

[pbartch]

7. RFK died on the day I graduated from High School

That was a very sad day for me.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

22. He died on my 18th birthday

:cry:

[Squeech]

8. The big question is

does RFK have the support (or the charisma) to prevent the bloodbath of Chicago 1968?

He only wins if he can do that, and even then he has to neutralize Nixon's peace-with-honor horseshit.

And even then, how do the Repukes react in defeat? One of the reasons we remember Nixon so (ahem) vividly is, he was the architect of the "Southern Strategy," which we have seen come to fruition this year (that map of the slave states and territories in the 1850s, which is nearly identical to the 2004 red states). If Nixon's defeat results in the continued dominance of the Rockefeller wing, we get a 21st century dominated by urban business interests in both parties, and no more foreign adventurism. But if the Dixiecrats keep control, they keep propping up avuncular warmongers, and we still get Reagan and the Contras. (We might not get Islamofascism, however, depending what happened to Iran in the interim. Without the distraction of Vietnam, we might have been able to rein in the Shah's excesses.)

[DaveinMD]

9. RFK

would have won and ushered in an era of liberalism that united poor blacks and poor whites. Reagan never would have won and neither Bush would have been President.

[ZombieNixon]

10. According to my dad, who is a big RFK fan,

(and my mom had a crush on him), 1968 was the year the "lizards" took over, the "lizards" being the RRW. If he's right, and he may be, an RFK presidency may have averted that.

Using some projections from this thread:
1969-1973, RFK's first term, Ted Kennedy is presumably involved somewhere, no Chappaquiddick.
1973-1977, RFK's second term paves the way for a Ted Kennedy run. Presumably we're out of Veitnam by this time.
1977-1981, assuming no dynasty fatigue, Ted Kennedy wins the WH.
1985-1989, possbly a second term of Ted, we could eliminate Reagan and Bush I from the political spectrum given that Ray-gun would be far too old to run by now (78), and I doubt Bush I could win w/o a Reagan legacy behind him.

[gater]

11. The History Channel (I think) had a show with that premise 3 yrs. ago.

[ZombieNixon]

12. What happened?

[LSdemocrat]

13. Instant rebirth of economic liberalism, beyond that who knows

RFK would win (assuming that LBJ wouldn't be so vindictive as to work against him). No Watergate, therefore more trust in government. Fewer riots, therefore fewer of the racially divisive politics of the 70's and 80's. No need for peace marches, therefore no Kent State.

Going beyond that, who knows, but I am 99.99% sure that the world would be a better place.

[Bok_Tukalo]

14. RFK get two terms

Nation suffers from Kennedy fatigue along with the economic woes and Reagan gets elected in '76. Serves two terms but without a Gorbechev, chafes against the Soviet Union agressively when they invade Afghanistan. Does not allow the Shah into the United States and tries to continue to use the rising Islamic fundamentalism to the American advantage in the Middle East and fails miserably. Bush loses in '84 to Ted Kennedy who is credited with the collapse of the Soviet Union and serves two terms, the second one just barely as the Republican Southern Strategy begins to bear fruit. '92 to '00 is Republican (not sure who, probably Kemp) and the economic expansion is blunted by military conflict in the Middle East as the Islamic threat to The Resource finally has to be confronted. Vietnam in the Desert brings us a Democrat, probably Gore in '00 or another Southern political figure. It is also the year that the Democrats lose the Senate to go along with the House that was lost in '98. Gore is a one termer.

George W. Bush is a footnote in Texas Ranger history as the driving force behind getting The Temple built in Arlington.

[Squeech]

15. Except

the Middle Eastern threat isn't such a problem, since RFK responds to the 1973 oil "crisis" by embracing alternative energy (like Jimmy Carter tried to do, only the nation would rally around Kennedy) and the madrassas don't have all those petrodollars to work with.

I don't think Teddy ever gets to be president. Maybe Mo Udall gains enough gavitas for his work on alternative energy to win (he was one of the dozen or so candidates in the real 1976 election). Maybe we still need southerners like Carter to contest the barely concealed racism of the Repugnant wingers.

I do agree the Bush dynasty is not a major player. In the real world Nixon gave Poppy Bush stature, as RNC chair during the Watergate coverup effort, and Ford gave him his power base, as head of the CIA. Without those, Bush is a minor congressman and his sons are oil patch nomads with drinking problems.

[JVS]

16. he loses, things continue as they did

[Arkana]

17. RFK wins, by a landslide

We get 8 years of another President Kennedy, then Carter runs for President in 1976.

[DaveinMD]

18. I don't think Carter

would win if RFK served two terms. Carter was a response to Watergate, which never would have happened.

The anti-government feeling never happens if RFK lives. So sad to think about.

[Borgnine]

19. RFK was the third assasination in the right-wing takeover.

First it was JFK, then it was MLK, and then it was RFK. I think an even more ambitious notion would be JFK surviving.

Anyway, RFK would have beat Nixon. Remember, a lot of the people in charge today are remnants of the Nixon Administration. It would have severely hurt the conservative movement, but I think we'd eventually have had to deal with them. Maybe not right now, but in ten to twenty years there would be a different version of Chimpy.

[Melynn]

21. RFK elected President in 1968?

America would have been a lot better off today. Nixon divided the country for his political gain. We are still living with that legacy today with this Red/Blue state thing.

Robert Kennedy wouldn't have done that. RFK could have and I think would have united the country, although there still be haters who wouldn't have gone along with Kennedy II. But the haters would be a small minority of the country.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

23. Positing that neither RFK nor MLK was assassinated

I see the U.S. getting out of Vietnam, renouncing the role of the world's policeman, and concentrating on solving domestic problems. The oil embargo of 1973 leads to a new "moon project"--achieving energy independence. RFK consults with leading scientists to develop alternative fuels and alternatives to plastics, as well consulting leading engineers to build high-speed rail and urban transit systems. We get national health care and other social benefits up to European standards.

MLK's new emphasis on economic issues wins the support of poor whites, bringing poor people of all races together.

Undoubtedly, we would have still have had problems in this country, but they would have been different problems.