Anyone else see anti-Liberal/Progressive message in "Six Feet Under"?

[Prodemsouth]

OK, I have been reviewing this HBO show-on DVD. I have viewed other HBO series in the past and found them to be quality shows. I have heard praise for "Six Feet Under" from others, and thought I would try it. The thing I noticed about this program is that people who are "too intelligent or educated" (as Karl Rove would say) are portrayed in a very negative manner. Brenda and her "ex-hippie shrinks to the stars parents" are amoral freaks. Brenda is also an atheist. The program tends to present "people of faith," Ruth, her son David and his African American lover Keith, who are all active church members, as more balanced. Far Westerners or "left coasters" appear to be cardboard cut outs for conservatives to laugh at- Lisa, the vegan - yelling at ants in her kitchen to leave. The only character that seems to have a consistent - "my life is not fucked up" portrayal is the young, married, go getter, social conservative Latino Funeral Director, Rico. David and Keith look like they just got back from a Log Cabin Republican Meeting. I Know Gay organizations have praised "Six Feet Under" But The only Gay sexual scenes I remember seeing in both seasons 1 and 2, were scenes that were just based on sex, Season 1 David and a "male escort" And in season 2, two construction workers, one a married friend of Rico- who walked in on them and which gave the character the opportunity to blast them and call them names. The most disturbing view sex act, if you are a heterosexual man. I don't think this show deserves the praise it has been getting.

[Cha]

1. When I saw 6 Feet Under last year

there were definet anti-bush messages in it.

I can't exactly remember what they were but I was on DU ..writing about them with others..and they agreed.

One time..Nate Fisher was reading the newspaper and he threw it down and said.."More bush lies..doesn't anyone care?"..

edit~I don't think Alan Ball is a fan of the fascist regime.

[Prodemsouth]

6. Maybe it gets better in season 3, I have only seen season 1 and 2.

Also, Nate is shown in a dream sequence seeing the children that were aborted from various girlfriends. That ep reminded me of the anti abortion campaign commercials in the early 90s that showed children disappearing with the tag line "Life what a beautiful choice". If red state people see Brenda and other characters of the show as what those liberals are like no wonder many of them ran toward Bush.

[Maddy McCall]

2. Ruth, David, and Keith "balanced?"

You must be watching a different 6FU than I've been watching. And Rico fell in love with a prostitute and was a racist, sexist, homophobic asshole before he got busted by his wife.

But I take it that you haven't seen season 3.

The show doesn't have an anti-progressive slant. Every character's life goes through ebbs and flows of craziness.

It's the best drama ever on any network. Nothing tops it. That's my opinion, and you are entitled to yours.

[Prodemsouth]

8. You are right, I have not seen season 3, glad you gave me a preview.

because some of the show, I liked. Brenda, her family got on my nerves and just seemed to fucked up to be believable. And the characters came across flighty, I would be offended if I lived on the west coast.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. I agree

It is the best drama on TV.

When does the new season start?

[MADem]

3. Keep watching

Gee, the conservatives got pissed off because last season, they were sitting around the kitchen table bashing Bush. I won't tell you who "they" are so I don't ruin the plot line for you.

I enjoy the hell out of that show. I see the characters as individuals, quirky, most of them, but most people are quirky if you dig a bit.

Like I said, keep watching. If you think Rico is the normal one, you just may change your mind. If you are only as far as your post above indicates, you have a lot more watching and a shitload of interesting scenarios ahead.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. You are right

Rico doesn't get that strange until the 3rd season when he hooks up with that prostitute.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

4. Have you ever lived on the West Coast?

The trendoids definitely exist, and while their politics may be superficially left, when it comes to a choice between being trendy and acting according to leftist principles, they'll take trendy every time.

There are plenty of genuine leftists, but after 19 years of living in Oregon, I recognize the Brenda type.

[Prodemsouth]

11. I have met Brenda types also, but are they messed up as the character

or does Ball have an axe to grind agianst that type of women and baby boom parents. I even have to listen to rants from people 5-8 younger than me about "60s hippie parents" here in the south.

[MADem]

22. Both Brenda and her brother have issues

...her parents as well. They are rather disfunctional, but I don't know if that is intended to be viewed as a function of being from the LEFT coast or not, or being the genius kid of a shrink and his much younger, former student wife. Hell, it could be genetic, who knows what is in the writer's minds. For all we know, and the plot does not make it totally clear, they could have lived elsewhere in their youth. Remember, the Brenda character is a prodigy, and her brother is schizophrenic. There's more going on there than simple California dreamin'...

There are flaky people everywhere. The left coast surely does not have a monopoly on them....

[Prodemsouth]

12. Also I want to say I think the show is "trendoid" It mocks and ridicules

what is fashionable to bash in this current climate.

[Solly Mack]

5. Nope

I see just the opposite.

[I_like_chicken]

7. It seems like your selectively analyzing this show

and cherry picking scences and aspects of the show that support your argument. Its been awhile since ive seen the show, but I remember it being very rich in its portrayal of the human psyche. I think the show is geared more towards exploring the subconscious aspects of the human psyche and death, rather than progressing a Liberal or Conservative ideology.

[RevolutionaryActs]

9. Not at all.

I think it's just portraying a bunch of f'ed up people. :)

No one on that show is really "balanced".. you should watch all the seasons, they delve more and more into each character, and you really get to understand them.

Also I kind of doubt any show that leaned more toward the conservative side would show an interracial gay couple. That's just my thought though. :shrug:

Nothing I've seen on that show would lead me to believe it's anti-liberal.

[khashka]

10. I really have to disagree

Brenda's parents are NOT intellectual, good people. They are selfish and manipulative. Brenda is the intellectual, the intelligent one and, despite much of what she does, the decent person. I look at her as the heroine of the story. Her life is massively messed up and so she makes really bad choices. They point out over and over again that Brenda is a genius and very creative. Most of her problems come from other people's selfishness (basically her parents).

And Lisa asking the ants to please leave her kitchen. Yeah it's silly and also very funny. I see myself in her. Do they make fun of her? Of course. But she's also a very sympathetic character.

The problem is the show has certain dramatic constraints while trying very hard to represent real people - in all their complexity, inconsistency and general perversity. And I think they do a very good job.

Sure it's pure soap opera but I care about these characters. They remind me of people I know. They remind me of me.

I'd suggest you try it again.

Khash.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. I do not agree at all

Rico is a philanderer. Ruth is a twit who is attracted to bizarre men. David is a weirdo and his partner Keith is an ex-cop with a temper problem. The most sane person, IMO, is Nate. And he is far from a fundie or a conservative.

And you know what, it is a TV show!! The writers have thankfully left politics out of the storyline.

I think you are over interpreting the show. It is one of the best on TV.

[saracat]

16. I agree.

And just the fact that David and Keith go to church doesn't make them less fucked up than anyone else. In fact they have problems with the church. Neither are Log Cabin Republicans!

[Prodemsouth]

17. "Left politics out of the storyline"?! I haven't seen all the seasons,

only one and two. But I know politics are in that show- controversy involving the gays in the church, and as other posters said they were bashing Bush last season. No need to lecture me about it being a "TV show". I am not saying boycott or don't watch the show, I intend to continue to watch it too. All I was saying that I didn't like the way it portrayed west coast Liberals. Nate, though a nice guy, in the first season is a fuck up and is lazy, and horny. This is the lounge, if I wanted a serious discussion I would have put it elsewhere. Television shows or movies have never had a political impact.. huh. You are the one who is taking this too seriously.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. Maybe I did take it too seriously

but I just don't see a lot of political statements in the show.

[AllegroRondo]

25. There was a great one-liner last season

Nate is reading the paper at breakfast. Puts the paper down and says "Bush lies and nobody cares" to no one in particular. Just a muttered comment on life in general.

[sandnsea]

19. People are complicated

Keep watching and eventually it'll become clear. I would hope. OTOH, if you thought Ruth was more balanced than Brenda in the first season, I personally think you've got a pretty screwed up view of balanced.

And there aren't gay sex scenes because Brian and David's relationship isn't all sex. That's the point and what makes it much better than most portrayals of gays on tv. I don't understand why people like Will and Grace. All I see is endless stereotypical gay jokes and it's not original or even very funny.

[Prodemsouth]

20. Who is Brian? No gay sex scenes? David screwing a guy in the ass

is not sex? The two construction workers Rico walked in on- that was not sex. If they are showing that in season one and two and declined or had a problem with showing gay sex on a relationship level in the following seasons, then it was wrong for the Gay organizations to praise the show. I don't like Will and Grace either, never watched a complete ep. Yes Ruth did seem less troubled than Brenda, who has an unusual relationship with her brother, parents and men.. sorry I guess I got a pretty screwed up view of balance.

[sandnsea]

21. I don't get your complaint

First you say there was only two gay sex scenes, now you're acting outraged about it. I'm completely confused. There is no explicit gay sex on this show, ever, that I recall. You don't see any sex in the scenes you mentioned, any more than you see sex after David and Keith kiss and become romantic, which happens in almost every episode.

I meant Keith, don't even know where Brian came from.

Ruth and Brenda both choose screwed up men. Quiet doesn't mean balanced. Mistake alot of people make. Ruth is so repressed she has less chance of making choices that might actually bring her some happiness. As opposed to Brenda who is at least open enough to look at her behavior and therefore has the hope of change.

If you see these characters as charicatures, maybe you suffer from southern man syndrome. You know, when you know everything there is to know about a southern man in fifteen minutes because there actually isn't any deeper thought going on. In most American homes, when you pull the blinds back, you see a family alot like the one in Six Feet Under. Complex people who are pretty much living a charade of normalcy.

[Prodemsouth]

23. Have you seen the show ? Seasons 1 and 2? Watch the episode "the

trip" in season 1 where David has an encounter with a male prostitute and another ep in season 2 about Rico getting Mold removed from a new house he and his wife purchased. I believe it was on the second disk from season 2. Just saying those two examples showed sex as a recreational release not as a relationship-like Nate and Brenda. If I am "outraged" at anything it is the incorrect information in your post. Rent season one and two and then come back and talk to me.
"Southern man syndrome"(LOL), now the reason for you picking a fight here is coming through very loudly. You are a geo-bigot. On the other hand, I was complaining about the sometimes simplistic view of people from the west coast in the show. Yes, behind the curtain we are all fucked up..we have never been told or seen that before have we (sarc)? Fucked up is not the same as "complex." I am saying the characters sometimes appear cardboard-not complex.

[sandnsea]

24. Nah, I haven't seen the show

I'm just commenting out of my ass. :eyes:

Those two sex scenes were no more explicit than scenes between David & Keith. What's the difference between either of those scenes and the scene with Nate and Brenda on the airplane? They weren't in a relationship then.

No, I'm not a geo-bigot. "Southern man syndrome" is honestly something I've noticed about southern men. I've known my brother-in-law for nearly 30 years and there is nothing more complex about him today than the day I met him. He's an architect, so I'm not stereotyping him as a redneck hillbilly either. It's the same with John Edwards, you keep waiting to find out more of what makes him tick but you never do. Because what you get in the first 15 minutes is who they are, for better or worse.

Which leads me to think you're viewing this show through a very matter of fact lens. You seem to have focused on those two sex scenes and I'm not quite sure why unless that's your preconceived view of homosexuals. While doing that, you've completely missed all the other aspects of David and Keith's relationship, that is actually healthier than any of the other relationships.

You don't even mention Ruth's affair. Do you just see her as a nice southern Christian mama, and totally dismiss her sexuality? Wasn't she having an affair with the flower shop guy in the second season? IIRC, she was seeing a few men at one point. I mean, come on, this is no genteel southern mamma. How does this steaming sexual woman square with the sweet Christian values she pretends to represent?

I think you're selectively remembering what you want and ignoring big chunks of this show and that you didn't notice the underlyiing themes because you're either not culturally prepared to deal with them or you dismissed them as unrealistic. These people, then, would definitely become cardboard characters. But I assure you, they're not.

[Lindsey]

26. I've been watching since day one and the show is definitely

anti-repub and anti-Bush. In one of the shows Nate goes off on a guy who's company is trying to take over their family owned funeral home. He yells at them and says something like asshole republican coporate morans. The show is definitely progressive. The next (and last) season starts in June.

[Prodemsouth]

27. So all southern men are like your brother in law or John Edwards.. They

..we are all alike, huh. You argued in your first post that there were no gay sex scenes, I responded to show that what you were saying was false, ( that is why we are discussing this) yet you continued...now you are saying that they are portrayed with care, like Nate and Brenda..which is it??? The thrust of my argument is the way West coast people and liberals are portrayed. Also in another episode, Brenda goes back to school only to find academia (one of the last liberal dominated areas) portrayed as a sterile no room for debate, don't disagree with the Professor or you get an F place. That is a chief conservative complaint about academia. I talk about Lisa the Vegan yelling at ants. My chief complaint is Brenda and her parents. I said Ruth can be seen as "more balanced," I said the same about Keith and David. She appears less fucked up than Brenda. Therefore I believe that "people of faith" or church goers come off looking better. Brenda an atheist is portrayed as amoral- THAT IS WHAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH, because I am secular Humanist. I am not praising Ruth. I am saying Ruth, David, and Keith are portrayed as having a better sense of moral questions than Brenda. Your claim that I think that Ruth is a nice "southern Christian mama..mamma..(I think 'momma'is what you are trying to say if you are trying to be rustic).. " further illustrates your bigotry.. or assumptions that all southerners are alike (I can't be more polite than that) Maybe you are reading this thread through your own narrow, yes I said narrow, lens, because maybe if you read carefully you will find that ALL of your accusations about my views of the show don't hold water. BTW, The Flower Shop guy didn't come up till after Ruth's husband had died. She was seeing someone else, not the Russian Florist, before her husband died. Maybe you did watch it through your(expletive deleted..just being a nice Christian boy):evilgrin: instead of your eyes

[sandnsea]

29. I didn't say any of that

I said there are southern men like that and perhaps you are one of them. I said there are no EXPLICIT gay sex scenes, and there aren't. I said that just because you see Brenda portrayed as more fucked up than Ruth, doesn't make it so at all. That would be seeing them through your cultural view. Just because Ruth goes to church and is quiet, doesn't make her a nice Christian mammaw. That's the entire point, challenging society's moral judgments. The fact that you don't see it and are now dismissing the moral disconnect between an outward portrayal of Christian values while having sex when not married (affair with the Russian Florist) is more evidence that YOU are judging Brenda and Ruth through YOUR cultural values. Who's the bigger sinner? Ruth, the religious hypocrite. Or Brenda, the emotionally disturbed person who was arguably abused as a child.

[Prodemsouth]

30. Yes you did!!

You did not qualify your remarks. You said, "Southern Man Syndrome is honestly something I have noticed about southern men." Period. That would mean all southern men to any reader. Then you go on to give examples of your brother in law and John Edwards. As Claire on Six Feet Under would ask "how fucked up is that"? Did I say Ruth was a nice Christian mammaw? No- I said people that go to church are portrayed in a more balanced- meaning not as saints but as less fucked up. My pointing out that Ruth was seeing the Russian Florist after her husband died- was to point out an error you made about the show in your post. She was seeing another man behind her husband's back I said that in my earlier post - you just got the wrong guy. This was just about pointing out that the show can be seen on another level and may not be what people see at first. That was all. It has been done before. We just disagree about the sex scenes in questions and I am going to just leave it at that. I am in the minority, (only one), here as far as a different view of this show goes. As I said I intend to watch it still. It is interesting-I think some of the "liberal" characters could have walked right off the set of a Bruce Willis action film- but it is still interesting. I have noticed no one has challenged my post about Nate seeing "children" of his past relationships.

[sandnsea]

31. Two things

To me, challenging the status quo in a thoughtful way is the essence of liberal. Which is why I didn't see the scene with Nate as anti-liberal and don't see many of the other scenes you described as anti-liberal. They're thought provoking which is actually what liberal is supposed to be.

Second, I don't classify affair as only extra-marital. Particularly when dealing with an older woman. I used affair as a politer way of saying fucking. But her supposedly being this sweet Christian mammaw (MY words) while fucking various men, is supposed to show the hypocrisy of judging people as less fucked up just because they are mild mannered and go to church.

So I just don't see it the way you do and I throw out the possibility that it's cultural, regardless of whether ALL southern males are afflicted with southern male syndrome. (Which obviously they aren't because not every single individual of any group is exactly the same.)

[maveric]

28. Rico's life is getting fucked up.

His wife kicked him out and he's getting depressed.

[Placebo]

32. It can't be, it's made by the man who gave us "American Beauty"...

and I always found the homosexual scenes to be handled with great care and dignity.