I have a question.. not sure how word it, but here it goes:

[RevolutionaryActs]

My question is, how can a person take the bible as a literal thing. I don’t understand.

The reason why I don’t understand is because the fundamental meanings of the old testament, and the new testament are completely different. Right? The new testament shows the teaching of Jesus, which are pretty much, from what I gather, peace, love and understanding. If I’m wrong on that correct me, please.
Now from what I gather of the old testament, it’s pretty much war, anger and vengefulness.

So to me, that show’s the bible contradicts itself. You start off with this vengeful God and then you have a loving God who sends his only son to die for the sins of all mankind? So I don’t see how a person can take the bible as a literal truth, because it appears, to me at least, that it does contradict itself.

Now I know, not all people take it as the literal truth, but there are people, and I want to know why they do and I guess I just want to start a discussion, and see what people think. I want input, I want to learn.

Now maybe this will develop into a flamwar, I don’t know. I just wanted to post this, for whatever reason. So that’s that. Thank you for your time in reading this, in responding, if you do. :)

[Midlodemocrat]

1. Well, people like me believe that the New Testament

supplants the Old Testament. That God sent his son to save the people of the earth in the New Testament.

At least that is what I believe. I don't believe in a vengeful God, only a loving one. Hope that means I am going to Heaven.

[progmom]

3. Yup. I guess that just about sums it up.

Fundies who say that you're not a "real Christian" unless you believe every word of the Bible as an absolute truth...I just don't know how they keep their heads from exploding.

[RevolutionaryActs]

4. Hey progmom?

Do you think this post will get my air time on some other site? :evilgrin:

[kedrys]

26. Well said.

That's exactly how the s.o. and I feel about it. The OT should be ripped right out of the book.

[Beware the Beast Man]

2. In theory, even the biblical scribes did not take themselves literally

The Bible is a collection of stories full of allegory, parable and symbolism. It is purposefully obtuse. To be a "Bible Christian" or "fundamentalist" is just madness, and totally ignores the historicity of Judaism and Christianity.

[xmas74]

5. I am a Christian

and I find almost 90% of the Bible to be nonsense.

[leftofthedial]

6. why do you hate freedom?

Jesus taught that we should persecute queers and bomb ay-rabs

I hope eI cleared that up for you.

[RevolutionaryActs]

8. LOL!

You're bad... :P

[BurtWorm]

7. I could see how maybe a few thousand clinically insane people

could take it literally. But I also don't understand how 40% of Americans can unashamedly claim to take it literally.

[Dr.Phool]

11. I'll bet you they've never read it.

If they did, they weren't comprehending what they were reading.

But most of them have never read it. Just spoon-fed verses from preachers.

[Dr.Phool]

9. You can print up about 30 pages of biblical contradictions

At the Secular Web at www.infidels.org
Go to the library

A lot of fundies try to squirm when you point these out, and newer revised editions try to edit them out.

But if you believe the bible is absolute literal truth, you believe the Earth is flat, seperated from the heavens by a big dome (the firmament),
and space is made of water.

[RevolutionaryActs]

10. Cool site

Thanks for the link! :7

[Dr.Phool]

13. A wealth of knowledge at that site.

You're welcome!

[RevolutionaryActs]

15. Yes I can see that

Thank you again, I'l be poking around that site for a long time! :thumbsup:

[Dr.Phool]

18. Another good book is Gospel Fictions

by Randel Helms.


It goes into a detailed analysis of how the 4 gospels evolved over time, and several disrepancies.

[Beer Snob-50]

12. What most of the fundementals don't understand

is that the old testament was written by hundreds of different people who used different literary styles in which to give their message. Now , this message was given to them by the spirit. They chose the way of giving this message.

Most of it was fictional accounts that just tried to teach a message of somesort.

[underpants]

14. It's a "good cop bad cop" thing

much mimicked since

[Bonhomme Richard]

16. If you believe Free Thought is the original sin then.........

it's easy to take what is written literally. And the best part is that any contradiction you read can be explained away in any form your preacher decides. Remember, you've given up free thought.
For me, the main consideration when reading the bible (God, I can't remember the last time I did that) is that it was written by man.

[RevolutionaryActs]

19. Now that's a good point!

hehe

[EC]

17. The way I learned it was

God sent us Jesus to set us straight about God, because they had it all wrong.

[tjdee]

20. There is love in the OT too.

As a Christian I'm not entirely sure why we even give a hoot about the Old Testament, as Jesus came to give man a new covenant blah blah blah. I take it more as history with some metaphorical things thrown in.

There is love there, kind of--it's fascinating. I mean, look at who God spends time with in the OT. Jacob is a thief and a liar, but God blesses him. Jonah hates people who aren't Hebrews (hint hint fundie nuts), David has a man killed, Moses was a murderer...all kind of screwed up stuff happening there, but God doesn't ever just go "Forget it, fuckups, the world's over!" So there's that.

In a way, the OT "keeps it real".

[Fenris]

21. There are varying degrees of accepted truth among Christians

At your most extreme, you have the Christian who believes that every word of the Bible is literally the Word of God and does not contradict itself (which it clearly does in many instances). A little further to the middle of the spectrum is the Christian who believes that most (say 75%) of the Bible is true, with some of the more glaring errors the product of any number of Satanist conspirators, monks who made poor translators, etc. Then there is what one might call the moderate or liberal Christian who believes that there is thematic and overall truth to the Bible, but it is not meant to be taken literally. And finally, there are people like me, who see the Bible as one part nonsensical theology and one part social gospel, and tend to draw any wisdom from the latter and scoff at the former.

:hi:

[RevolutionaryActs]

24. Great post!

:yourock:

I must say I'm with you.

:hi:

[Fenris]

28. A-thank you, Rev!

:hi:

[fit4life]

22. Basic understanding.

You have to know about the different Dispensations of the bible. Most of the OT was under the Dispensation of Law. Right now (since the death of Jesus) we're under the Dispensation of Grace. I don't know enough about it to be considered any kind of authority, but I'd suggest you ask a clergy member about the Dispensations to get a better idea of how these appearances of contradictions can be explained.

[jswordy]

23. To me, the Bible's message is today overshadowed by...

...the fact that the book is taken literally and also out of context in fragmented readings.

Jesus Christ was one of many teachers who have walked this good Earth and attempted to show a way to inner peace, a way of life that is easy on the person and on all that is around him or her, and way to walk in balance. His message has been grossly distorted because it has been applied to a political system (the various churches) and has been co-opted as a means of controlling people rather than freeing them.

The Bible is a beautiful book that encompassses within it all that is human, from the most base and coarse to the highest level. The book progresses from a harsh God who bases justice on retribution to a loving God because it charts the pathway of Middle Eastern humankind's concept and understanding of God. Acceptance in that region over time of Jesus' understanding of God is what brought about that change and formed the book.

The Bible can be a beautiful teaching tool, one of many paths to enlightenment available to those who want to study them.

But to drag it down to just its parts and to insist that each piece is literally factual destroys the higher-level beauty of its teachings.

Besides, factually speaking, the Bible cannot be literally true. The stories there were passed down verbally for generations, then written down, then certain manuscripts were decided upon to be include and others were rejected. Then the Church of England completely rewrote it, and destroyed many of the original manuscripts afterward.

Even today, there is argument among theologians about translations, meanings and various versions.

It is the teachings that matter, not the specifics.

For me personally, these teachings are available through many different pathways. There are many paths and many teachers to guide the way to Truth. My own belief is that the spiritual world provides many pathways so that as many as possible can find their way, and when the student is ready the teacher will appear. Christ offers a path, and he fits in many lives. But so does Mohammed and Buddha and Fool's Crow and Isis and Ghandi and King. Each are markers of the pathways, so that we may find our footsteps upon them. And the details of each pathway are understood to a greater or lesser degree by each individual, just like each would perceive the details of a journey differently.

The pathway to truth, no matter which route is taken, is a life's journey.

[RevolutionaryActs]

25. That was a lovely post!

:)

"The pathway to truth, no matter which route is taken, is a life's journey."

That is so cool! :thumbsup:

[Beetwasher]

27. Only Stupid, Lazy People Take The Bible as Literal Truth

Flame away, but that's just the way it is.

There are some people who SAY they believe the bible is literal truth, but really don't and only say that so they can USE it to control stupid, lazy people.