Non-Clarkies check in here!

[Stop_the_War]

I'm a Boxer fan myself. :P

[mike_c]

1. I'm damned nearly ABC....

I don't care how liberal he claims to be, or how sincere his liberalism is. He's career military. That is enough to put me off of General Clark permanently. Did he ever stand up and say "America's foreign policy is wrong and as a military man, I refuse to serve it?" Not to my knowledge. AFAIK he did just the opposite-- he was a "good soldier" who rose to the rank of General. That is the very definition of who we need to keep as far from the White House as possible.

[fudge stripe cookays]

2. Well said....

I could never quite articulate my problem with Clark. You've just stated it quite well.

FSC

[Renew Deal]

3. So Bush is a better choice

obviously :shrug:

[mike_c]

8. that's about the most unhelpful response imaginable....

Feel better? Do you really think I would support Bush for anything other than Milosovic's cell mate? How was that response useful?

[Renew Deal]

16. You said

"That is the very definition of who we need to keep as far from the White House as possible."

So that obviously means that Bush would be a better choice because a draft dodging, chickenhawk, war mongering peice of shit is better than a career military man. Don't be mad at me. You said it.

[hlthe2b]

4. Such blanket statements......

Well, I DO think Clark is an honorable man and not one to sell out his principles so readily, as you insinuate. Enough said, I guess...:shrug:

[mike_c]

9. perhaps I should have gone to greater lengths to make it clear...

...that I was simply expressing my opinion, not necessarily arguing it's merits, although I did do that during the last primary. I recognize that I made "blanket statements." That's just how I feel. I will admit that a truely liberal, progressive civilian leader might emerge from the career military ranks, but I think it unlikely, and I would have to question how such a person could be so successful within a system that does not reward those qualities.

[xkenx]

23. The "Duck" Principle

Ducks don't wear signs labeling them ducks. If it has a ducksbill, waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, then you know it's a duck.
Wes Clark is one of the Democratic Party's foremost progressives by virtue of his actions over the years, not by any labels that you want to throw at him simply because he had a career in the military.
If you cared to do just a little homework, you might appreciate just how lucky we are to have this national treasure. Just a few items:

--Clark was always butting heads with the stereotypical "macho" military Neanderthals because he saw the horrors of war firsthand in Vietnam and always espoused "diplomacy first."
--Clark was one of the leaders of the all-volunteer Army created after the Vietnam debacle. To keep personnel in you had to do a good job of providing for their family needs, health, education, equal opportunity.
--Clark actually won environmental awards at bases under his command.
--When Clark was working at the Pentagon in the mid-90s, he was virtually the only voice crying out to intervene in Rwanda.
--It was Clark's voice, along with Madeline Albright, who persuaded the Clinton Admin., over the objections of the Pentagon, to stop the ethnic cleansing in Kosovo. Tell the Kosovar Albanians that Wes Clark isn't a liberal, progressive, humanitarian.
--It was Wes Clark's voice prior to the Iraq invasion who urged that we exhaust all possible diplomatic means before any military action, including in testimony to Congress.
--It was Wes Clark who filed an Amicus Curiae brief in the University
of Michigan affirmative action case.

Since when is it some kind of a black mark for someone to give to his country by serving in the military if he does so in a principled manner? Wes Clark felt that he could make the most impact by providing a progressive voice to that institution.

As for voting for Nixon and Reagan, he did so 20-30 years ago, simply because he felt they were strong on national security. Clark discovered that the modern Republican Party is so different they wouldn't have Nixon, and maybe not even Reagan. Clark evolved to where he started voting for Democrats, and then officially registering as a Democrat after registering as Independent for many years. Reagan WAS a democrat prior to running for Gov. of California. Are any Democrats wanting to say that Reagan, in his later years was a Democrat, simply because he started out that way?

So I'd have to say Wes Clark is my Democrat, liberal, progressive "DUCK" because he has proved it.

[Floogeldy]

29. I voted for General Clark in the primary

And I will do it again, if given the chance. He is a very intelligent man. I would love to have him in the White House.

[mermaid]

5. I'm An Edwards Supporter Here!

And I do NOT trust Clark. He voted for too many Republicans. 'Nuff said.

[bowens43]

6. I'm ABC (as far as the Democratic primary)

The last thing we need is a fucking general in the oval office. Especially a general who had nothing but praise for the neo-cons until they snubbed him. Thirty years of military indoctrination is more then enough to disqualify him.

Clark can't be trusted and he can't be believed.

[Stop_the_War]

7. what's ABC?

[mike_c]

10. anyone but you know who....

eom

[elshiva]

11. A Derryiac/Koochie here!

A non-Clarkie, but NOT Anti-Clarkie.

[bearfan454]

12. I don't want to vote for someone that voted for Nixon and Reagan.

I just don't.

[stpalm]

13. Feingold!

2008

[Radical Activist]

14. I don't like Clark or Dean so

I think that makes me only slightly more popular than a freeper in GD.

Actually, I like Clark fine, but people throw a fit when I suggest there might be a better candidate for President or that Clark isn't God's chosen one.

[Renew Deal]

17. lol

"I think that makes me only slightly more popular than a freeper in GD."

[Dave Sund]

15. I'm Really Not Sure

I'd like to see someone like Feingold, but I can see the positives of someone like Warner, and I'm not convinced that Clark is a bad candidate.

I'll get behind whoever the nominee is, even if it's Clinton. But I think it's going to be a huge mistake to nominate her.

We're a long way away, still. Warner's an intriguing candidate, I think. Feingold has the benefit of being principled, but he is a Senator.

[NoPasaran]

18. Uncommitted for 2008

It's way too early for me say anything beyond Better Dead Than Red.

[UrbScotty]

19. Wesley is a GIRL'S NAMe

:P:P:P:P:P

[FourStarDemocrat]

20. The criticisms of Clark in this thread are uninformed..

Sorry, but as a supporter of Wesley Clark, who also admires Barbara Boxer and Russ Feingold , also mentioned on this thread, I'm very dismayed at the knee-jerk reactions to Wes Clark and the uncritical belief in republican propanda against him.

Wes clark was an independent- unaffiliated with any political party, as most officers in the military for the span of his career. In Ak, one does not have to register for a political party to vote. After retirement, he registered as a Democratic in 2003 and has been working his hump off for the democratic party during and after his own candidacy--working forlocal candidates, senate, congressional and governatorial candidates, and for John Kerry--practically more than any other dem. presidential candidate has last year. Wesley Clark has always had core democratic beliefs and values. The last and only times he voted for a Republican was for Ronald Reagan and for George Bush Sr.because at the time while he was in the military he believed that they were stronger on defense--information we know because he had the integrity to talk about it. He also voted for Clinton Both times and Al Gore in 2000. Wes Clark always showed the highest integrity when in the military. Not every high ranked person is a violent militarist and it is cartoonish to think so.

Wesley Clark was the person who first started talking about PNAC and brought his criticsms of that dangerous group to the national level, and how the neo cons in the administration were thwarting plans and opportunities to go after Bin Laden in favor of putting PNAC's plan into place. Wesley Clark also has stated innumerable times that his service in the armed forces has taught him that it is a President's duty to take a country into war only as the VERY LAST POSSIBLE resort-- and this administration has not done so-- and we have fought a war that we didn't have to fight. His testimony against invading Iraq for the Armed Services committee is also on public record.

Anyway, there is a lot more that I can say is Wes Clark's defense, but I felt that this at least had to be submitted.

[Bunny]

21. Why is this in the Lounge? n/t

[realisticphish]

24. yeah, i noticed that

we don't want none of yer "polticks" round here, boy... :D


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[ScreamingMeemie]

22. I'm still open. One speech isn't swaying me to Boxer, yet. I like Clark

but I'm hoping we'll also see some "fresh" blood to think on. Take your time Stop! :hi:

[sybil]

25. Boxer is my Senator

I'd walk the plank for the good Senator but she should not run for prez. She should stay in her seat doing what she does best.

Everything else posted here is pure idiocy...so far...for the most part...just my humble opinion.

Don't blame me, I voted for Wes Clark!

[Lefta Dissenter]

26. .

"You will determine whether rage or reason guides the United States in the struggle to come. You will choose whether we are known for revenge or compassion. You will choose whether we, too, will kill in the name of God, or whether in His Name, we can find a higher civilization and a better means of settling our differences." - General Wesley Clark

That war-mongering son-of-a-bitch... :eyes:

[Crunchy Frog]

27. Hey, what a great idea.

Let's start posting threads in the lounge about hating particular Democrats that we know alot of other DUers really like.:bounce:

Maybe we could start one for all the Edwards haters to check in, and all the Kerry haters, and the Dean haters and Kucinich haters. Yaaay! Let's just have one great hatefest and show the world what liberalism and the Democratic party are really all about.:bounce:

[WI_DEM]

28. I'm open for '08 as I have no horse in the field as yet

[robbedvoter]

30. I love Boxer - but am a Clarkie - do I belong or not?

Nah, I'll let you have your little oasis without us. ;-)

[Moderator]

31. Locking

This is inflammatory.