Dairy state showdown: Wisconsin Vs. California!

[Guy Fawkes]

Wisconsin Vs California!

I'm not sure about number of cows, but I'm not so sure it matters. When it comes to cheese, what do you think of first? Keep in mind that Wisconsin has a cow and a piece of cheese on it's state quarter.

[skygazer]

1. Neither

I think of Vermont. Best cheddar cheese in the world. Don't try to tell me different!!

[rodeodance]

21. our cheesecurds beats all

[benny05]

39. Me too n/t

Although Wisconsin is a close second..

[A Simple Game]

56. Vermont cheese is good, but

New York cheese is the best.

[AntiCoup2K4]

2. Let Wisconsin have their cheese

What else do they have?

[bugslsu9]

3. Hey!!!

We have some absolutely gorgeous land, carved by glaciers thousands of years ago. We have the best tasting light beer in the country, Miller Lite. Summerfest, the world's largest beer and music festival. AC2K4, have you ever been here?

[kick-ass-bob]

4. I agree. The landscape there was incredible.

We were driving back from Milwaukee, and we took the route that avoids Chicago (don't remember the highway) and that was some spectacular scenery.

Etched into my mind.

[bugslsu9]

7. I43

That isn't nearly as good as the area around the Wisconsin dells and north of Wausau. The Dells in particular. That area was considered sacred by Native American tribes, and has some of the most beautiful rock formations I have ever seen.

[rodeodance]

20. that lead to fishboils

[sybylla]

28. A little antiseptic cream might help you out with that

:evilgrin:

I love fish boils. Not too many of them in the central part of the state, unfortunately. Best damn food anywhere, even if most of the time you have to eat it in a church basement.

[ewagner]

6. Lake Superior

and many, many beautiful inland lakes where you can still eat the fish you catch....

forests with abundant wildlife....

scenic beauty

and the friendliest most open-minded people in the US (although those Minne-soda types are okay too)

[htuttle]

26. Shush!

Don't go telling everyone! They'll all want to move here when they run out of water!

[hfojvt]

37. actually, the driftless region

owes its scenery to the lack of glaciers. Instead of being flattened and smoothed by tons of uncrushed ice, it experienced another 50,000 years of erosion. Drive around northwest of mad-town if you do not believe me. It is awesome, but also a pain in the rear if you are in a hurry. The quickest distance between two points does not involve winding ridges and valleys.

[AntiCoup2K4]

58. Actually no, I haven't

But I wouldn't go there for the beer, especially not Miller Lite :puke:

Best beer in the US is from the microbreweries in the Pacific Northwest.

[bugslsu9]

62. Have you had any of the WI Micro-Brews?

Sprecher, Leinie's, Point? I have had beer from all over the world, and those 3 stack up against some of the best even Germany has to offer

[Abelman]

66. Not true

I've had beer from both regions, and the beer in the Wisconsin area is better.

But my favorite is from Kalamazoo, MI.

[Abelman]

65. Are you...are you serious?

Did you just refer to Miller Lite as "best tasting?"

Wisconsin is full of crazy people.

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

5. Cranberries, the coolest art museum- bar none, brats, Summerfest,

Oh, I could go on...

[Guy Fawkes]

10. Whats up with cranberries?

We're technically the 'cranberry state', but I never see cranberry juice at the store!

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

12. Right?? And when you do, we pay as much as they do in CA??

:wtf:

[Guy Fawkes]

11. A bar on every corner...

a giant porcelain cow, a huge population of socialists...

[RetroLounge]

38. Me!

Ain't that enough for ya?

:hi:

RL

[Jack Rabbit]

8. They can't do Monterey Jack in Wisconsin

Besides, California is the center of the universe. Everybody knows that.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

25. Right on, Jack Rabbit!

Monterey Jack cheese is soooo good! And of course I agree about us being the center of the universe!

:toast:

[short bus president]

9. Wisconsin doesn't make me go

100 yards from the restaurant to smoke. So Wisconsin wins.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

15. AAACCCKKKK! Smokers in restaurants make me SICK!

So are you telling me that you smoke? You want to die from lung CA, hmmm? And those you love around you are more likely to get it too. Second-hand smoke is a well known carcinogen, ya know...The tobacco companies don't care; they just want your money.

:rant:

[short bus president]

17. I smoke. I ENJOY smoking.

It's only a matter of convenience that I also NEED to do it.

And for what it's worth, I have no prollum at all standing outside to smoke. Having to go 150 feet (I think) from the restaurant door is a bit... overboard.

[Jack Rabbit]

27. And in California we enjoy . . .

EDITED for spelling

. . . not having to smell second-hand smoke while we eat Monterey jack cheese in a fine restaurant overlooking Big Sur.



Got anything like that in Wisconsin?

Photo from the Big Sur Chamber of Commerce

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

29. And, in WI we enjoy a cigarette while taking in the beauty...

[Jack Rabbit]

31. Looks very pleasant

Hopefully, you put the cigarette butt and other bits of litter in its place.

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

35. It's gorgeous!

Smokers do not = litter bugs, ya know??

[Jack Rabbit]

36. I know

They're very good about using the ashtrays we keep outside for them here.

[Thor_MN]

57. Take a look out the window the next time you are waiting to take a left

turn and you will be eating your words. YOU may not be a litter bug, but most smokers are, that's why it is the most common item picked up when cleaning highways. It used to be pull tabs from pop and beer cans, before they were banned. Now it's cigarette butts. Maybe there should be a deposit on cigarette filters, it would act to reduce pollution and be a deterrent to starting smoking.

Makes we want to put signs by the left turn lanes that say

KEEP YOUR BUTT IN YOUR CAR!!

[Xithras]

40. ...sucking in smog and air pollution instead of cigarrette smoke

:evilgrin:

Sorry, as a native Californian, I couldn't resist. I've always thought it funny that we have some of the worst air on the planet here, and yet people worry about getting cancer from secondhand cigarrette smoke. An hour sucking fumes on the 405 or the 880 will do far more damage to your health than sharing a dining room with a smoker one or two nights a month.

No, I'm not a smoker.

[Jack Rabbit]

41. True, but . . .

. . . that automobile manure is also something kept outside of the restaurant.

Besides, there's no smog in Big Sur.

[Biased Liberal Media]

49. Now you're making me homesick!

:( *Sigh*

[rodeodance]

19. well you can always stay home if you do not like smokers in restruatants

[CaliforniaPeggy]

24. Hi rodeodance,

You are so right! However, in California, we don't need to do that. And the restaurant workers don't have that choice. They have to work and they are much happier since they don't have to breathe second-hand smoke. A lot of restaurant and bar owners thought that the anti-smoking rules would hurt their business, but just the opposite has happened. More people are going out to eat and drink and socialize since these rules have gone into effect.

Sorry to hijack the post...

[Groggy]

43. There is no smoking allowed in Madison Restaurants

unless they are more of a "bar." I believe they have passed a law recently that will extend that to bars as well! It is nice to eat without smoke in your face!!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

13. Vermont

[Bullwinkle925]

14. Please pass the veggie sandwich - on a sourdough roll with xtra

Monterey Jack. Thank you very much!

[Shakespeare]

16. Some of the best artisan cheese in the world is being made in California.

Point Reyes Cheese Co., Cowgirl Creamery, Marin Cheese Company....and on and on. Several have won out over established French cheese producers in competitions the last few years.

Happy California cows AND goats make the best cheeses on earth.

[sybylla]

30. I gotta call you on the "Happy California Cows"

My hubby's job takes him inside cheese plants all across the country. He's been to California. Interestingly, one of the places he visited was arid where cows are held confined in feed lots, fed grain and water pumped from miles away (no doubt subsidized) because there is none locally which means no grass and no grazing in sight. I doubt such an unnatural lifestyle makes for happy cows. I laugh whenever I see that stupid Happy Cows commercial and wonder at the fraud it perpetrates.

Nowhere in Wisconsin can a cow not find a plot of grass in the summer and a manger full of hay in the winter, and all the water it needs. No high deserts here.

[Xithras]

33. Where the heck was that?

I live in the middle of farm country here in the Central Valley and can actually see a working dairy from my backyard (which really sucks when the wind is blowing the wrong way). It's true that many dairy cows spend their lives in muddy fields and not the rolling meadows you see in the commercials, but I've never seen a dairy that confined its cows to the feedlots full-time...most only bring the cows into the feeding pens at feeding time. And as for no grass or grazing, I'm kind of stumped about where that would be. The high desert somewhere? Most of California was grazing land before it was carved into farms and ranches.

[sybylla]

51. Tulare

In fact, the entire valley from San Francisco to Tulare. He drove it both ways a couple of times. All the terrain, all the dairy farms looked the same as I described (except I said feed lots when I meant loafing sheds). My husband grew up on a dairy farm. He could spot what was going on from a mile away.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to say the whole state is that way. I know there are very beautiful and lush areas in California. But the midsection left a lot to be desired when it came to raising dairy cattle. The only way California managed to nudge us out of the "Dairy State" claim is by figuring out how to raise dairy cattle in the desert. And I can give you all kudos for that. But the Happy Cows thing makes me cringe every time I see it.

[Xithras]

59. I still don't get where he saw that.

SF to Tulare huh? I live right in the middle of those two and have for my entire life, and I still have no clue where he's talking about. Yes, the land is flat (it's officially the flattest spot on the planet) and some of it is remote and desolate, but it's not desert and never was. Most of this area is drained marshlands and converted grasslands, and is some of the most fertile soil anywhere in the world. If you leave a patch of soil bare and unmaintained, within a few weeks the natural grasses will fill it in without any human intervention or irrigation.

Yes, the dairies all have loafing sheds and many cows spend their summers in them, but that's mostly to escape the hundred degree summer sun. Most of these dairies have grazing paddocks and the cows do graze, but it's usually in the morning or evening when the temperatures are cooler. If he went through here in mid July in the afternoon, I could see where he could get the impression that the cows are kept in the sheds all the time, but they're really not.

I DON'T get where he got the impression that this is a desert. Once you drop into the Valley on the 580, you drive past nothing but field after orchard of vegetables and fruits all the way to Fresno. There are some dry areas along I5 that are desertlike, but I5 is a bit out of the way for a Tulare run so I'm assuming he took 99. Where, exactly, did he see dairies in desert conditions with no grazing in sight?

[sybylla]

63. No grazing. What can I say. It's what he saw.

To grow alfalfa at the farm across the road from the cheese plant, they had to ditch it and irrigate it. To dry down the alfalfa for storage, they just stopped watering it. No grazing pasture anywhere. I'm sure it wouldn't make any sense to graze cattle on land you had to water. Cost-wise, you're better off providing the food and water in a controlled environment.

Maybe that's not arid or desert-like to you, but it sure seems that way if you come from Wisconsin. The only part of the state where much irrigation goes on is in the sand counties where the rain drains away too quickly. But most of that land is used for crops, not dairy. And irrigation doesn't have to take place every day to keep the crops alive.

We have loafing sheds here too and we have barns to get the animals out of the bad weather when necessary. I get that. It was the lack of grazing area he saw. The animals were confined to loafing sheds because there was no reason to leave them to graze. No fresh grasses anywhere. I'm not trying to paint some kind of image of cow heaven here. We have 100 degree days in the summer, but the cattle usually stay in the pasture, grazing and lounging in the shade of trees or buildings. It's often cooler there than in the sheds. And of course grazing is what cows do best. We also have miserable winters for animals here. Cattle don't tend to require much protection from the winter weather and beefers handle winter very well. But if you want your dairy cows to produce milk, you've got to bring them indoors. Cooped up for 4 months of the year isn't fun, I'm sure. But Wisconsin isn't producing commercials with idyllic pastoral scenery claiming we have only happy cows here.

Hubby was in Tulare for several weeks getting the plant started up for cheese production and went back for maintenance later on. This wasn't a one-time weird weather event. It was the way things were done there. This farm boy who grew up on dairy farms in New York and Wisconsin saw a huge difference in how things are done. And, being a good and curious farm boy, he asked plenty of questions. Nothing is necessarily better or worse about any of it. It's just the claim of "Happy California Cows" and lush green pastures that seems to perpetrate a fraud.

[Xithras]

64. Many do irrigate their pastures

Water, as you may have heard, is the source of constant fighting out here. One of the reasons for that is that most of the Valley water rights are held by irrigation districts, and those irrigation districts are controlled by farmers. When the cities need more water for population growth, they have to beg it from the farmers, and the result is that the cities subsidize the entire water system and the farmers get it practically free. With that setup, it actually DOES make sense to flood irrigate your pasturelands once every few weeks to keep them alive. We typically get zero rain between June and October, so irrigation is the only way to keep ANY plant growth from going dormant here. This is why we have one of the worlds biggest irrigation systems.

I don't get down to Tulare much, but most of the dairies that I've seen (primarily between Merced and Tracy) do have pasture that they rotate their cows on. I've seen the kinds of farms you're talking about (there's a huge one near Los Banos that's just shameful), but they aren't the majority.

Oh, and our cows don't lounge in the shade of trees because we don't have any. Before this area was settled, trees only existed along the river banks. The rest was open marsh and grassland. The only shade trees here are those specifically planted for that purpose.

[Shakespeare]

34. I'm in the north bay, and our daires are NOT like that.

In fact, almost every dairy (it may be all of them by now, but I haven't checked lately) in the Marin/Sonoma area is organic and BST-free, and the cows graze freely in our rolling hills (most are affiliate dairies to the Clover-Stornetta dairy company). Lots and lots of grass to graze on. Those commercials are filmed just outside of Petaluma, btw--not high desert by any stretch of the imagination.

Sounds like wherever your husband visited was by far an exception. Come visit sometime; I think you'd change your opinion. The California north bay area (where all those amazing cheeses come from) is a wonderful example of what can be done when healthy, organic methods are put to use, whether it's with the cheese, the produce or the wine.

Edited to add some info about Clover-Stornetta:

In September 2000, Clover Stornetta Farms was the first and only dairy
in the United States to be awarded the Free Farmed label for humanely produced animal products.

http://www.clo-the-cow.com/freefarmed.html

And their company policy for affiliate dairies (which encompass almost all of northern CA, which in turn encompasses most of CA's dairy production):

Sustainable agricultural practices and the ultra high standards of our North Coast Excellence program ensure the future of dozens of family farms here in the Bay Area. Local farm families work to bring the best milk possible to your family's table.

http://www.clo-the-cow.com/family_health.html

[sybylla]

52. He visited the dairy farm directly across the road

from the DCA cheese plant in Tulare. They had cows in loafing sheds, grew alfalfa on irrigated fields and brought in water and other food supplements. No grazing there. Nothing at all like in the Happy Cows commercial. And every farm between there and the airport in San Franscisco appeared to operate the same.

And some day I'll take you up on that tour. I've always thought Northern California was much more like the Midwest.

[gizmo1979]

42. Not a chance

Wisconsin cheese has been proven the world over.

[Shakespeare]

44. au contraire:

Behold (and this doesn't even include the outstanding goat cheeses we produce):

For the fourth consecutive year, California cow's milk cheese producers took home more awards than any other state in the cow's milk categories at the annual American Cheese Society (ACS) judging, winning a record 36 awards. This year, 116 North American specialty, artisan and farmstead cheese producers entered 726 cheeses in the competition, which acknowledges America's finest cheeses. The competition is part of the ACS annual conference, which was held July 22-24 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. We even beat you in Wisconsin!

This year, California's cow's milk cheeses won 7 first-place, 14 second-place and 15 third-place awards. The 2004 results bring California's total to 118 awards in the cow's milk cheese categories since 2001.

California first-place winners included Belfiore Cheese Company, Berkeley, for Ricotta; Cantare Foods, San Diego, for Burrata; Cowgirl Creamery, Pt. Reyes, for Mt. Tam; Marin French Cheese Company, Petaluma, for Camembert; Fagundes Old World Cheese, Hanford, for Hanford Jack with Jalapeño and Maria's Panela; Karoun Dairies, Inc., Los Angeles, for Marinated String Cheese with Olive Oil and Herbs.

In all, 14 California cow's milk cheesemakers - almost half of the state's total number of cow's milk specialty cheese producers - received awards. Among the big winners were Fiscalini Farmstead Cheese with eight awards, Fagundes Old World Cheese with five awards, Cowgirl Creamery and Marin-French Cheese Company with four awards each, and Sierra Nevada Cheese Co. and Karoun Dairies, Inc., with three awards each.

"California continues to show it deserves its growing reputation as one of the country's preeminent fine cheesemaking regions," said Nancy Fletcher, California Milk Advisory Board Vice President of Communications. "The broad range of winners, representing so many different varieties and types of cheese, demonstrates the impressive diversity of talent that our state possesses."

California is the second largest cheese producing state and last year produced 1.8 billion pounds of cheese. The state has 60 cow's milk cheesemakers who produce more than 250 varieties and styles of cheese. Half of the state's cheesemakers are specialty, artisan or farmstead producers.

First-Place Awards:

Belfiore Cheese Company, Berkeley, CA
Ricotta, Fresh Unripened Cheese

Cantare Foods, Inc., San Diego, CA
Burrata, Fresh Unripened Cheese

Cowgirl Creamery, Point Reyes, CA
Mt. Tam, Soft Ripened Cheese

Fagundes Old World Cheese, Hanford, CA
Hanford Jack - Jalapeño, Monterey Jack with Flavors

Fagundes Old World Cheese, Hanford, CA
Maria's Panela, Hispanic & Portuguese Style Cheese

Karoun Dairies, Inc., Los Angeles, CA
Marinated String Cheese - Olive Oil/Herbs, Marinated Cheeses

Marin French Cheese Co., Petaluma, CA
Camembert, Soft Ripened Cheese

Second-Place Awards:
Cowgirl Creamery, Point Reyes, CA
Pierce Point, American Originals

Cowgirl Creamery, Point Reyes, CA
Fromage Blanc, Cultured Cheese Products

Fagundes Old World Cheese, Hanford, CA
Maria's Queso Fresco, Hispanic & Portuguese Style Cheese

Fiscalini Cheese Co., Modesto, CA
Anunciata, Italian Type Cheese

Fiscalini Cheese Co., Modesto, CA
Smoked Cheddar, Smoked Cheeses

Fiscalini Cheese Co., Modesto, CA
Premium Reserve, Farmstead Cheeses

Fiscalini Cheese Co., Modesto, CA
Purple Moon, Marinated Cheeses

Karoun Dairies, Inc., Los Angeles, CA
Feta, Feta Cheese

Marin French Cheese Co., Petaluma, CA
Triple Crème Brie, Soft Ripened Cheese

Mozzarella Fresca, Benicia, CA
Smoked Mozzarella, Smoked Cheeses

Sierra Nevada Cheese Co., Willows, CA
Sierra Jack Garlic, American Originals

Spring Hill Jersey Cheese, Petaluma, CA
Mike's Firehouse Cheddar, Flavored Cheddars

Spring Hill Jersey Cheese, Petaluma, CA
Sage Cheddar, Cheddars

Valley Gold, LLC., Gustine, CA
Part Skim Mozzarella, Italian Type Cheese

Third-Place Awards:
Cowgirl Creamery, Pt. Reyes, CA
Cottage Cheese, Cultured Cheese Products

Fagundes Old World Cheese, Hanford, CA
Hanford Jack - Smoke, Smoked Cheeses

Fagundes Old World Cheese, Hanford, CA
Hanford Jack - San Joaquin, Monterey Jack with Flavors

Fiscalini Cheese Co., Modesto, CA
San Joaquin Cheddar - Young, Cheddars

Fiscalini Cheese Co., Modesto, CA
San Joaquin Cheddar - Old, Cheddars

Fiscalini Cheese Co., Modesto, CA
Cheddar with Dill, Farmstead Cheddars

Karoun Dairies, Inc., Los Angeles, CA
Mozzarella String Cheese, Italian Type Cheese

Marin French Cheese Co., Petaluma, CA
Brie, Soft Ripened Cheese

Marin French Cheese Co., Petaluma, CA
Peppercorn Brie, Soft Ripened Cheese

Rizo-Lopez Foods, Inc., Riverbank, CA
Oaxaca, Hispanic & Portuguese Style Cheese

Rizo-Lopez Foods, Inc., Riverbank, CA
Queso Fresco, Hispanic & Portuguese Style Cheese

Sierra Cheese Manufacturing Co, Inc., Compton, CA
Feta, Feta Cheese

Sierra Nevada Cheese Co., Petaluma, CA
Cream Cheese, Fresh Unripened Cheese

Valley Gold, LLC., Gustine, CA
Smoked Provolone, Smoked Cheddars

Winchester Cheese Co., Winchester, CA
Jalapeño Gouda, Flavored Cheeses

2004 World Cheese Awards
California cow's milk cheesemakers made a strong showing at the 2004 World Cheese Awards (WCA), an international annual competition held in London. California won seven awards, including prizes in categories where Europeans usually dominate, such as Cheddar and Brie. This confirms the state's fast-growing reputation as a high-quality cheese producer.

Gold Awards

Fiscalini Cheese Co., Modesto, CA
San Joaquin Gold, Class 56 (Hard pressed cheese other than Cheddar and other UK territorials)

Silver Awards

Valley Gold, LLC., Gustine, CA
Ricotta, Class 12a (Ricotta)

Marin French Cheese Co., Petaluma, CA
Brie, Class 14b (Brie made from pasteurized milk)

Marin French Cheese Co., Petaluma, CA
Triple Crème Brie, 14b (Brie made from pasteurized milk)

Fiscalini Cheese Co., Modesto, CA
Cheddar, Class 42 (Vintage farmhouse cheddar made before April 1, 2003)

Bronze Awards

Marin French Cheese Co., Petaluma, CA
Pacific Blue, 59b (New cheese, blue, first marketed after Dec. 1, 2003)

Fiscalini Cheese Co., Modesto, CA
Anuciata, Class 60 (Cheese produced on a farm or dairy with a total output not exceeding a weekly average of two tonnes)

2004 World Championship Cheese Contest
Cheesemakers from California earned eight awards this year: three first-place awards, four second-place awards, and one third place award at the biennial World Cheese Championship judging, held in Wisconsin in March.

First Place Awards

Cantare Foods, Inc., San Diego, CA
Fresh Bocconcini Cantare, Fresh Mozzarella

Cantare Foods, Inc., San Diego, CA
Ricotta, Open Class Soft Cheese

Karoun Dairies, Inc., Los Angeles, CA
Queso Blanco, Queso Frescos

Second-Place Awards

Dairy Farmers of America, Turlock, CA
Monterey Jack, Monterey Jack

Cantare Foods, Inc., San Diego, CA
Fresh Ovoline d'Celli, Fresh Mozzarella

Karoun Dairies, Inc., Los Angeles, CA
Queso Fresco, Queso Frescos

Vella Cheese Co., Sonoma, CA
Toma, Open Class Semi-Soft Cheese

Third-Place Awards

Cantare Foods, Inc., San Diego, CA
Fresh Ovoline Cantare, Fresh Mozzarella

http://www.realcaliforniacheese.com/behindTheSeal/default.cfm?sub=behindTheSeal&page=2&start=1

[gizmo1979]

67. Those aren't real cheese names

You're making those up.

[dhinojosa]

18. Wisconsin: It's even on their heads for chrissakes....

they love their cheese

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

22. Uh....and elsewhere

[dhinojosa]

32. Thank God she's not a browns fan.

shudder

[ClassWarrior]

23. Gouda Uber Alles!!

Sorry, my Wisconsin German heritage rearing its ugly, cheesy head.

B-)

NGU.

[Neshanic]

45. Uh, visit a "dairy farm" in SoCal and you would never touch milk.

Same with the Arizona dairies. They stand knee deep in their own excrement, in brutal heat, pens with shade structures with fans hanging off them, pen after pen, not one inch devoid of muck and slime.

[Shakespeare]

46. Not true. See my post #34.

Just isn't true. Too bad you can't get Clover-Stornetta organic, BST-free dairy products (humanely produced!) outside the west (not sure if it's available in states surrounding CA?). Good stuff.

[Neshanic]

47. Not true what? Do you want pictures?

The low desert "dairy farms" that are in the swath from Phoenix to across the river in the El Centro areas have dairy farms that are exactly like that. Acres of cows knee deep in crap in blast furnace heat. The ones in areas south of Phoenix to Tucson are epecially wretched. The cows are never let out of the stinking mess they stand in all day.

[Shakespeare]

48. Not true for the MAJORITY of California dairies.

Not only are they NOT kept in those conditions, but most are BST-free and graze freely. There may be handful of dairies in southern CA that have less-than-optimum conditions, but they're very much in the minority.

I live in the heart of northern CA dairy country (as the prevailing late afternoon breeze at my house will tell you), and most of them are operated humanely, and have been cited as such (moreso than dairies anywhere else in the country).

[Neshanic]

50. Obviously you have not been to the low desert "Farms"

It may be nice up there, but you would be horrified by these.

[Xithras]

60. Those should probably be shut down

I was having a conversation with someone else upthread about these. Do inhumane dairies exist in California that make cows live in muck all day long? Sure. I'll bet, though, that if I looked around Wisconsin long enough I could find some farms that would horrify us too. The point is that whether we're talking Wisconsin or California, these types of horrendous corporate superdairies are the exception rather than the rule. Most dairies in California treat the cows humanely, and most dairies in California give the cows plenty of grazing land to wander around on. I know they do because they're all over this area...I can see them from my backyard, I drive past them on my way to work, I have friends that work with them, and we take our local schoolkids on fieldtrips to see them every year.

I'll agree that the dairies that practice this kind of abusive behavior should be shut down, but to say that all, or even most, California dairies are like that is simply untrue.

[donheld]

53. Please don't fight over this

There's no sense fighting over which state cuts the cheese more. :crazy::evilgrin::crazy:

[AllyCat]

54. I'm biased after living here for the last 16 years.

This is a great state and I am still convinced we have the best cheese. And might I add some of our wines are pretty nice too! Wollersheim, Botham, Cedar Creek...

It's good to have the blue states compete to make each other better :)

[fishnfla]

55. Looks like the Cheese rules

Said it once, say it again: never,ever underestimate the power of cheese

[Lauri16]

61. You need an "other" category

I won't eat anything but NY State Cheese or drink anything other than NY State Milk. :)