Seers of visions,seekers of reality

[undergroundpanther]

Both intersect.A rational mind can speak to the artistic,There is a thing called"crazy wisdom". One can be a scientist and learn from dreams and visions. Why do we have visions artistic inspiration dreams? Scientists have had made discoveries through dreams,Did you know where the Benzine ring came from? A scientists "irrational" pattern filled dreams being taken seriously.

Read more about how other's crazy dreams made sense in history..http://www.bellaonline.com/subjects/6036.asp

Science can't answer this mystery of life and death and everything all alone unless science is willing to admit they might be wrong sometimes and are other sources and ways of getting of legit knowledge too.Visionaries and artists can't do it alone either because science tests and tries to be rigorous in it's wisdom seeking.It's record is valid and somewhat destructive too.Science made alot of real life and good changes and bad changes in it's ignorance that ,make life easier if not different,dramatically than life before science....
Philosophers,as do mystics and artists operate between two orthodox worlds and so will eventually offend both the religious atheist/rational scientists orthodox and irrational/theist religionists orthodox.

Looking for wisdom for real answers requires looking into the unknown with your own two eyes..and seeing what is sometimes gives you wisdom in the form of a heresy... something true to offend ANY orthodoxy with.
There are people who seek to understand...
And others who seek to know and have power.

As for people seeing Mary in grease stains or underpasses..Why is this scary? Do they see something meaningful that you can't. Doe having no control on how people interpret what they see drive you crazy? Why? Is it what they might do? Isn't this no different than preemption? Let a person show you their ass before you kick it.

For instance:
A lot of money is spent my marketers on putting subliminal images in advertising,and most people will deny they see it,deny subliminal work,deny it effects them,and ridicule people who do see it.Part of seeing subliminal is giving yourself permission to see what is there not what it's supposed to look like.
part of seeing things requires a willingness and want to see.
Ids it manipulating yourself into delusion? Or not?

Is the majority consensus always right..or not?
When is it obvious fact and when it it tyranny?

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro00/web2/Shrestha.html
http://www.subliminalworld.org/indexsma.htm

Majority consensuses and minority tyrants of orthodox religion can be every bit as controlling,dehumanizing and dogmatic as any atheist /scientist are to a seeker heretic that offends their favorite theories or dogmas.
It's when they get power to control others lives and what they see or feel or think that things go bad.

We all know how Church religious Orthodoxy suppressed Galileo from saying what he saw,it went against what everyone at the time believed that the Earth revolved around the Sun.Orthodoxy is a problem..An intellectual orthodoxy denies the damage on the Sphinx in Egypt could be caused by water erosion on sandstone they refuse to even entertain the idea the sphinx might be older than their dogmatic view of Egyptian history insists.

http://www.egypt-tehuti.org/sphinx.html.

Any calcified orthodoxy that cannot stand a heretic asking questions,seeing what they can't see, making a "threat" of them to intellectual or belief is defending a hegemony.
And orthodoxy that will not even ask themselves why and consider they might not know it all are guilty at the least of stubborn arrogance and clinging to pet theories. An orthodoxy like that abuses knowledge to have power over what people can see learn or explore.They do not want to be discredited and lose authority so the suppress the insights of heretic explorer/seekers..in their midst.
A bunch of people under an overpass praying to a wall is no threat.
They are not Nazi youth Pope Ratass excusing priestly pedophiles while claiming infallible moral"authority' .
A scientist "expert" with power can be as dangerous to the sanity of a nation as Ratass.Look at the obesity bullshit.

This is how it is when one group of people claim they know better or more than others...and after they demonstrate what they know,some groups of people become rigid because they get hooked on the power of being seen as an expert does for the ego.

If people use a belief or certain facts to justify abuse,to pressure people to be like they are,to excuse abuse of power,suppression of knowledge seeking heretics,bigotries,and the scapegoating of people,they have in my eyes lost both their legitimacy and their 'authority'..why because they are dishonest and corrupt and serving their own hegemony and not seeking anything that would upset their power base..

The people seeing Mary sightings are they dangerous because they are not 'scientists" and might be pattern seeking,or mentally ill or are they weak just because they don't think humanity is all that reliable or good and seek something better because humanity abuses people,even while they claim to be good? A vision of Mary can't hurt anyone,people however can use anything to justify abuse if they misuse power with the knowledge they get .

Look at the evidence,IMO all of humanity is weak,weak ethically,ignorant of the workings of the subtle and spirit,and we fear change in an impermanent world. We can't even overcome the game of war.War violence is a voluntary act that leaders instigate always After a war people cry no more wars like after WW2 yet here we go again...Average Joe of mankind never listens to ethics too far he is seduced again and again by'leadership and he finds excuses to do war and abuse,plunder and avoid responsibility.. Leaders with their orthodoxies are adept at exploiting humanities near universal fears,desires,traumas and mental illnesses one of which is having a lack of a moral honesty and humble empathic heart with enough courage in it to resist being used or misled by corrupt people or bullies sometimes..
The world is cruel in one way or another unless you are on top of the hierarchy of humanity,.alot of people have a conscience and it hurts to deal with people without one.All the playing games,struggle and strife wears people down.We await miracles to stop the suffering. We see visions to learn,about the unknown to see deeper and to escape the human condition if just for awhile.The same reason we explore science and our physical world.

Not being happy or settling with the way the world is as if it must stay this way with it's dying,suffering and hate and bigotry and corruption in high places..maybe that is what sanity is.However it hurts like hell to be sane.It can make people think you are crazy refusing to accept what they accept as the powers that be,"human nature" or the way it is.
A scientist looking for ways to ease the pain of this hopeless situation is sane..and it pains him to fail and to see the suffering.
So is the mystic seeing visions that give us a vacation from pain and a hope in a hopeless situation..is sane too..and it pains them to see the suffering too

WE need both sides of this spectrum and philosophy was once the mediator.
Philosophy has pretty much died out in our ignorant orthodox over- religious,arrogant, hyper rational ,yet insane know-it all and obey the master culture.
So now the vision seers and scientists fight against each other to see who's right.The scientists stagnate in logical orthodoxy getting their egos stroked and wheedling for grant money and the mystic in ignorance and la la land,excusing corruption in the church.There isn't enough people who can can walk in both worlds who can understand both of the sides anymore without being called a crackpot or conspiracy theorist by the rational scientist orthodoxy,who must prove it step by step to prove he is right or a hard nosed rationalist or heretic by the religious orthodoxy using dusty old texts to prove they are right and deserve to rule today...Knowlege has become compartmentalized too much and sanity has left the building..
Science guesses at what reality is,just like spiritual people do and everyone else does.
Science revises itself when theories are proven wrong..The church is revised when it schisms,,So none have a firm grasp of what is real..only part of it.Both are right sometimes,Both are wrong too.

It all depends on you, and your motives as to why do you seek to know what is.