DU Parents Poll: To Spank or Not To Spank? - That is the Question

[hiphopnation]

I love my daughter. But man she knows my buttons. I spank and I'm not afraid to admit it. As long as you make it clear from day one that you love them more than anything, I think light spankings that accompany explanations about the discipline are OK.

My only hang-up is the notion that it perpetuates violence; that if that trend is ever going to end then here might be a good place to start. But man she knows how to push my buttons.

I'm ready to be lectured on this one because I know some DUers are staunchly against spanking at all.

[La_Serpiente]

1. You can't get out the bull whip and whack that thang

but there has to be a "proportional" amount of forces used against the kid for whatever he/she had done.

Sure, it will get the kid in line, but the parent also has to listen to their child.

[northzax]

2. While I am not a parent (that I know about, at least)

I am firmly in the pro-spanking camp. Monkeys that is. Spank the monkey, not the baby.

[VermontDem2004]

3. No Spanking-I am not a parent

I grew up just fine without being spanked. The point is if you see your kid fighting with his/her sibling then you spank him/her, the message occurs to him/her that when you are angry or upset about something another person does you hit him or whatever.

[hiphopnation]

5. Well to posts two and three

thanks for your input but that's why I made this poll for "parents". I don't care how much you've read, your upbringing, your degrees, personnal experiences, you don't know how challenging parenting can be until you've done it yourself. Thanks!

[VermontDem2004]

7. But I know parents and lots of other parents

who don't need to spank their kids. I am well aware of the difficulties parenting can be, but there are other ways of handling situations then spanking.

[VelmaD]

9. I didn't vote in the poll...

for precisely that reason...I'm not a parent.

[VermontDem2004]

12. I didn't vote in the poll either

[northzax]

23. nor did I

I can follow directions.

and frankly, you can't even compare the experiences of parents with each other as every child is different. So restricting this to parents is absurd, since you may have a child that you drive Mother Theresa to violence, while another may not.

frankly, I was never spanked (that I can recall) but my sister was. Does that mean my parents treated us differently, or that I never did anything to warrant a spanking, and she did?

[hiphopnation]

28. Ummm.....

you can't even compare the experiences of parents with each other as every child is different

Every child is different, yes. But parents most certainly can, and most parents do, compare thier experiences with eachother. I assure you there are alot more similarites in the lives and experiences of parents as there are with non-parents which is the reason for restricting the polls to parents.

[northzax]

40. and how do you know this?

have you been in someone else's parenting shoes? or just your own? did you see the frontline on last night? woman was going to adopt this girl. this woman was mother of the fucking year, great kids already, well regarded social worker, stable family. didn't believe in corporal punishment, never used it on her two boys. lost it and killed the girl when she threw one to many tantrums. that anything like your experiences?

[hiphopnation]

42. And the reason it was on frontline

is becasue it was an isolated, abnormal incident. By-in-large parents have much more to share with eachother in thier day-to-day experiences with thier children than they do with non-parents.

Does that mean non-parents are clueless to parenting and should have no say in how it is done? Of course not. We were all children at one point, after all.

[VelmaD]

4. from my human development classes...

back in college, the going theory was to reserve spanking for the most serious occasions - like when the child was endangering themself or others. If you spank all the time it becomes meaningless or it just teaches kids that if you're bigger you can force someone to do what you want.

My parents pretty much handled my brother and I that way. Progressive levels of discipline with spankings reserved as a last resort. We seem to have turned out ok. :-)

My brother and my best friend are the same with their kids - spankings only if they endanger someone or when they lie.

[GumboYaYa]

6. We don't spank, but once my three year old

took off running towards a busy street and would not stop when we called him. Fortunately we caught him right before he ran into the road.

He got spanked that day, but only because it was vitally importnat that he understand that he has to stop running into the road when we call him. I would not spank unless it was a very very serious matter. Generally, we use time outs and grounding as means of discipline.

[VermontDem2004]

10. I was usually grounded when I done something wrong

I never been on timeout :)

[MrsMatt]

99. agree 100%

We don't spank, especially now that our daughter is 6, because we feel it would humiliate her.

[cally]

8. Absolutely not

Violence never teaches values. It takes longer, and more energy, but other ways work better. I got a workbook that made you think of logical consequences for most behaviors. For instance, child draws on wall, then they have to spend time to clean it up. Child runs into street, then they have to hold your hand when crossing the street. Child takes a toy from a friend, then they have to return it with one of their favorites. Child throws a temper tantrum, then they are removed from the room so no one has to watch.

I know at times, I wanted to spank my kids. The only time I ever hit my child was during a long, tumultuous day. She reached for food on my plate and I just slapped her hand. It was pure reflex. I was may more shocked than she was. I went up to my room and cried. And, she still reached for food from my plate.

[soleft]

11. Please read up on this, there's no reason to resort to violence

It will only teach your child that violence is an acceptable means to achieve a result. There are many, many ways to discipline and teach children that do not involve physical punishment.

We get alarmed as a society when we see criminals be roughed up by police officers, yet turn away when we see parents employ the same methods.

[hiphopnation]

14. Are you a parent? n/t

[sffreeways]

13. Never

There is no need to hit children

[hiphopnation]

20. Are you a parent? n/t

[patdem]

15. I recall seeing a mother of a toddler and an infant...the toddler swapped

at the infant and the mother hit the toddler on the bottom and said...and these are her EXACT WORDS "I will teach you to hit your baby brother!"...and my thought was....YES you are teaching him that EXACT thing...TO HIT his baby brother!!! YIKES!

[arwalden]

19. My Sister In Law (Kay) Would Spank Her Toddler

barely able to crawl... yet still mobile... she would spank him for waddling over to the pretty magazines and tearing the covers. This just makes no sense at all.

Nice. You made the baby cry... that's about all that was accomplished there. Sweet.

-- Allen

[JVS]

16. Why spank when you can shock?

http://www.b-stik.com/

[mikehiggins]

30. It looks like a dildo

There are some serious issues raised by this device, but I just couldn't stop laughing at the massage video long enough to think about them.

Thing is like a rubber hose with a handle. What an improvement.

[JVS]

35. B-stik as sex toy?

That sounds like a pretty bad night.

[patdem]

32. I did not click on that link...but I think it should be illegal

I had heard in earlier posts about 'baby shockers'...I find it SHOCKING!!! it SHOULD be illegal is all I can say about that!!! :grr:

[arwalden]

17. Spanking Is Wrong. It Teaches Violence.

This is the ONE of only a FEW issues that I agree with Dr. Phil on.

-- Allen

P.S. I did not answer your poll because you limited it to parents. But even as a non-parent I'm pretty opinionated on this subject.

[hiphopnation]

21. Are you a parent? n/t

[VermontDem2004]

22. He/She pointed out that he/she wasn't a parent

[arwalden]

33. "Are You A Parent" -- You Asked That Three Times As A (non) Response...

Which makes me wonder

Do you believe that only parents are qualified to offer an informed opinion?

Are you trying to stifle someone from offering an opinion that you disagree with? Why be so dismissive? (What I'm hearing is... "Tell me what you think oh I disagree with you what would you know about it anyway so shut up.")

Are you looking for validation for your parenting methods when you suspect that your methods are flawed?

Are you looking for opinions ONLY from like-minded frustrated parents who can understand WHY it's so tempting to strike a child in anger?

Is your temper getting the best of you?

I'll check back to see if this thread shows any promise of turning into a real discussion. But I see little value in a series of contradictions, or non-responses, or in trying to disqualify participation by people you judge to be inferior because they are not parents, or because they are not YET parents. It's a bit presumptions to assume that cumulative knowledge of parenting is magically bestowed ONLY upon those people who already have children... wouldn't you agree?

-- Allen

[hiphopnation]

37. Great Questions.

I'll openly admit, I question my methods and approach to parenting every minute of every day. And yes, I also admit, that my temper often gets the best of me. I do not condone striking children but I defend my right to raise my child the way I see fit. I was spanked as a child so the process is likely repeating itslef.

However, I also find it hard to swallow advice coming from people who have never been through the experience themselves. The same would apply to almost any situation. As perhaps a sloppy analogy, it is alot easier to tell a basketball team what they're doing wrong when you're sitting at home watching the game and not in the thick of it.

I like to think that I don't simply discount peoples advice about parenting simply because they are not parents themselves, but for the purposes of this specific discussion I was interested in getting only the opinions of those who have "been there".



edit: grammer

[VermontDem2004]

38. If I was a parent

I would never spank my children, I was never spanked, I know lots of parents who don't spank and they are fine children. Instead of spanking the common method is grounding. It is a sloppy analogy, anaylysts can say what a team is doing wrong and the coach should be able to see what the team is doing wrong and fix it. Teams just don't go out there and play ball, they run 2-3 zones, man coverage, different schemes and so on.

[cally]

41. I said I was a parent

but you ignored my input. I'm used to being ignored, but when you dismiss all those who disagree with you because they are not parents, then it makes me wonder what your agenda is. I'm a parent, a Mother, and I don't spank. Well, my kids are teens now and probably stronger than I am, but I don't believe in spanking. It is just wrong. It teaches that might is right. Worse, I would hate for my child to fear me. I keep remembering the cat we adopted. Everytime I reached to pet her she cowered in fear. She had obviously been hit by the previous owners. (By the way...the cat now nuzzles for affection when I raise my hand) If my child did that, I don't know how I could ever think I was a good parent. I admit, my daughters are not angels and not perfect kids. They are much better behaved than I, or my husband, ever was.

[hiphopnation]

48. True enough

It's been pointed out to me and that's probably what I need from this excercise; to be challenged, not affirmed. I don't think it's right, but I'm sometimes at a loss for a better approach.

My agenda is only to be a better parent. Thanks for your input.

[arwalden]

62. Sorry To Have Troubled You. Clearly I Have Nothing Of Value To Contribute.

I hope you find the answers you seek.

Good luck.

-- Allen

[hiphopnation]

67. On the contrary.

You have contributed alot of valuable information to this thread and I thank you for your posts.

[MountainLaurel]

49. Perhaps he's not a parent

But he was a child once, and maybe he was a terrified child waiting in the living room while Dad went to get his belt because a curse word -- the very same curse word the parent used 500 times a day -- slipped out of his mouth. Or a child who got spanked for smacking his brother's hand when he tried to touch a bumblebee.

[radwriter0555]

44. There are NO circumstances that warrant VIOLENCE. Spanking is

physical VIOLENCE.

If the child is that out of control that she needs physical abuse to get her attention or modify her behavior, something is WRONG in the household or with the child.

And YES, I am a mother. I have a 10 year old child who is good, kind, not out of control, no temper tantrums, no misbehavior, no lying, nothing. She has never been abused.

I was abused badly; stitches, bruises, blood, hair pulling, locked in closets, rooms, starved, attempted sexual abuse, verbal abuse and so on. I vowed to stop the cycle of violence. We don't hit, spank or slap in my house.

[stanwyck]

18. I agree with Sara Silverman on this subject

I was spanked and all it did for me was make me want to be spanked during sex.
Didn't spank either of my kids. Now 20 (twins). Spanking teaches might is right. It's OK to hit. It isn't necessary.

[Nikia]

24. In psych class the prof said why it is usually wrong

Most parents who spank are not consistent. Rather than using it objectively for specific actions, they use it based on how angry they are, which may include factors that have nothing to do with their child. This can be rather frightening to the child who associates spanking not with a specific action but with their parents'anger.
So if you spank, do so consistently for specific severe actions. The same punishment should apply whether you had been a calm good mood or whether you just came home after having a fight with your boss and had a headache all day.

[hiphopnation]

31. I think that I do apply it evenly.

Or I try anyway. For instance, we had a problem for a long time with my daughter not wanting to leave the park. She would throw a tantrum that would drive my wife to tears after she finally got this flailing child home. I told my daughter that if I heard of it happening again then she would be spanked. It happened again and, even though I was in a good mood and was look forward to a quiet evening at home, I had to make good on my word and I spanked her. I took the time afterward to make sure that she knew why she was spanked. And to let her know that if it happened again she would see the same result.

[cally]

43. She doesn't leave the park

Remember logical consequences. She doesn't go to the park unless she behaves appropriately. Or she goes for a few minutes and leaves appropriately. If she does, then the next time she gets to stay longer.

[VermontDem2004]

46. My thoughts exactly

that is how my mom would've handled the situation.

[radwriter0555]

50. Let the child know 1/2 before leaving the park that it's going to happen.

I found explaining things to the kid in REAL SIMPLE TERMS was the best way to achieve what I, as the one in control, wanted. IT doesn't have to be Loooooooooooooooong explainy crap. Just a simple, short, explanation with no arguing.

Talk to the kid. Tell him that we'll be at the park for 20 minutes. Then start counting down.

Make leaving the park part of the fun of it. Make going home something to look forward to, instead of cutting short a good time.

BOUNDARIES AND LIMITS. Kids LOVE em. Grown-ups should be the ones in charge.

[Old and In the Way]

98. Yes, I hear you.

Funny, I never spanked my kids when I was angry, but when they'd start a temper tantrum for no reason, wouldn't stop their incessant screaming, well, I figured they should have a real reason to be crying.

Oddly enough, a couple of sharp slaps of the hand accross the butt seemed to stop the tantrums....

[SiobhanClancy]

25. I don't like spanking

I'm convinced there are better ways,and I do feel that it teaches violence to a certain extent....and yes,I'm the mother of a 23 year old daughter,who had her share of "time-outs" in her younger days.

[hiphopnation]

34. I definitely don't like it.

I feel horrible after I spank my daughter. I probably do need to read up on it more. It's not something that I look forward to or "enjoy" doing. Admittedly, I also have a temper problem. It's my Irish blood.

[SiobhanClancy]

36. Well,I can relate to that

My temper is horrendous,too. Don't be too hard on yourself...being a parent is the hardest job in the world,and we all try to do the best we can:)

[On the Road]

26. I'm a Parent, But I Have Difficulty Voting in the Poll

I have spanked my 13-year-old several times -- you could count the times on one hand -- and never since she was 5 years old. Was this the right thing? I don't know -- maybe being stricter with her would have helped.

Most of the spanking that I see I do NOT agree with. But I can't dismiss spanking out of hand for small children. There are only so many ways to deal with obstreperousness. It should be used as a last resort and by a parent who's in control of themselves.

[underpants]

27. Not a parent yet but we plan on spanking

I feared the spatula/wooden spoon/ dish rag (mom was always in the kitchen) and I weighed the alternatives before I did something I shouldn't have.

[cally]

45. Please read about this before

you spank. Look at other ways of teaching.

[qb]

29. You don't have to hit your kids

recommended reading:
"Raising a Happy, Unspoiled Child" by Dr. Burton White
"Discipline Without Shouting or Spanking" by Wyckoff & Undell
"Without Spanking or Spoiling" by Elizabeth Crary

Corporal punishemnt is cruel and unusual for criminals, but okay for our kids? I don't think so.

[hiphopnation]

39. I've read that second one

"Discipline w/out Shouting or Spanking" and it has helped us a bit. Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going to look into those.

[vi5]

47. Well, my daughter is 2 and now I say definitely not.....

I was never spanked growing up and still to this day have never and would never hit another person in anger.

I guess it depends on what you mean by spanking. If a kid is acting up and you give one quick swat on the behind then I don't consider that spanking. I'm sure my daughter will bring me to that point on occasion.

On the other hand if it is something that is thought out or planned for a specific time, or any kind of repetitive hitting then personally no matter what my daughter did I could never see doing that.

[populistmom]

51. I don't spank

I have 4 children (a girl-11 and 3 boys ages 8, 5, & 2) and yes, I have yelled (unfortunately) and did spank once in a panic when one of my boys tried to run in front of a car. I still feel awful about it. My husband believes in spanking, but he knows how I feel and rarly does it anymore. Once, he hit one of our children as a young toddler very hard and I turned around and smacked him and said "if you ever do that again, we're gone". Violence is horrible and perhaps I didn't handle the situation right but it was the mother grizzly in me. I have put up with many things over the years, but I will not put up with that. Spanking is used by desperate people uncapable of controlling themselves and finding alternatives. Verbal abuse is just as bad. I was rarely spanked but dealt with that as a child. You always have to remember to tell you're children that you're unhappy with what they did, not who they are.

Sarah

[hiphopnation]

82. Good info.

Thank you. How old are your children now?

[sam sarrha]

52. It takes a lot of work to acquire Skillful Means to raise a child

HIT a Child??? Whip a puppy....Pull the wings off a Butterfly. What is the difference? when you hit them..formally known as 'spanking' you are continuing an endless cycle of suffering, at that moment you are teaching them to hit their child, brother, sister mother, anyone who frustrates them, getting mad is OK.. which creates more situations where they will get hit, previously known as spanked, which will anger and frustrate them, making them less cooperative.. you train a child just like a puppy. but kids are really creative so its a chess game. when Iren was a baby he got a cup of attention a day, some days his cup was bigger. if he got 1/2 cup positive attention he would fill it up with negative attention.. it is all attention. So first thing in the day i gave him a good dose, as a baby i put on music when he woke up, held him close and danced until he pushed away..he had his dose. I reached out and touched him when he toddled by... sometimes when i missed, he would stop and back up and stand there till i touched his hair then he would toddle on his way. when you teach with reasonable means they learn reasoning. I would ask him questions and his opinions... then help him resolve unknowns with a simplified scientific method.. fairly frequently. we walked with him on my shoulders as a toddler and look for words he didn't know.. he would point and would tell him the name and we played the sound out game till he got it, then say it 3 times..then both laugh with delight. later i would ask about things like when walking over a bridge why all the swallows were flying around just here.. then we would walk around and 'search' for the answer.. we found the mud nests and watched a while.. i asked him if he would like to live in a mud house under a bridge....he chirped "NO!", then i said that he should then keep his room a little cleaner or might. and we laughed. life is fun if you look for the fun, human life is a precious rare gift, treat it that way. To 'Discipline' means to have a disciple, to lead and guide along a path. when you whip a puppy you dont end up with a very good dog, you get a fearful frightened or vicious animal. You need to search different sources and find one that works or combinations from several. it isn't easy to fix a problem YOU inadvertently created, the child is a blank slate, tho with variations.. tendencies that are your duty to help them learn to deal with... having children without a vast knowledge of child development and an open positive curious mind and a lot time isn't really encouraged unless you want to end up making Republicans out of them by "spanking" them. I would be very helpful for you to learn to Meditate, it will help to prevent your emotions from taking over and screwing up and hitting them... spanking is hitting. It is good to have a teacher at first, find a meditation teacher or check out the web... www.buddhanet.net has a video system... Take your daughter on walks and tell her that sometimes you get busy and need her help, and tell her to tell you when she need help with her problems when she is feeling like trouble.. a couple times a week sit and give her cookies and talk about things good and bad, always tell them they did something right, praise will prevent bad behavior, they want to please. telling them what not to do with out telling what to do first creates the dark side in kids, being inconsistent sharpens their swords and makes them orks, good luck

[hiphopnation]

55. I like to think

that I do alot of the things you mention, save meditate. I encourage my daughter. We go on walks, we laugh, we play, we learn together. I'm a musician, so we often play musical instruments together.

Like I said, I am no perfect parent, but I do think that I do a good job of encouraging her, of filling her with positive energy as much as possible, of being humble and listening to her inquisitions and queries.

I have been looking for an alternative to spanking for some time and so far my wife and I have come up short. Thanks for your thoughtful post.

[sam sarrha]

131. check out www.fmpt.com they have books on meditating with your child.

meditating will help seperate the aflictive emotions from thoughts. help with grades and personal relationships.

[sam sarrha]

132. just a thought, maybe she has upsetting problems with other children

or school,or resolvable fears real to her she isnt communicating but stressing out about to you.

[cally]

53. The common excuse for spanking

is to get the child's attention. The child runs into the street and tha parent spanks the child. Well, I'm a parent and I know the fear, anger, helplessness, and urge to make the child obey. I don't condemn any parent for spanking in this circumstance but I do believe that you have taught nothing.

The better way is to take the child and teach. Hold their hand, walk across the street, look both ways. Luckily, I was in a good mood when my eldest (she was then 20 months) ran across the street. We then spent the next week practicing. :evilgrin: It was a much worse punishment than spanking her.

I'm so far from a perfect parent. I can't believe how mad my children have made me at times. I never got so angry at anyone until I had a husband and children. Now, my teens are respectful, caring individuals. I have never regretted not spanking my kids. I do regret my temper.

[VermontDem2004]

54. I actually don't see it as a punishment

I see at as a positive for your child. Because you taught him or her about the dangers of running out in the street and finding ways to prevent that. I see it more as a learning experience for the child.

[Maine Mary]

56. You HIT your child?

:wtf: Why? BTW I hope somebody bigger then you decides to hit you too.

[hiphopnation]

64. Because

I'm an evil ignorant, thoughtless, a**hole who doesn't give two sh*ts about his child just needs to blow off some steam from time to time and more often than not the little s*it is there so, why not??

Thanks so much for your thoughtful post. /sarcasm

[texastoast]

57. Age-Appropriate Natural Consequences . . .

Are the best teacher of all. It takes a strong parent to teach kids this way. Having been a strong, willful child, nothing worked except for this. My mom would say, "Alright, you know everything. Do it your way." I suffered 9 times out of 10 at my OWN hands. Worked great for me and is working for my strong, willful child. I told him that it was okay if he didn't want to do his homework, but if he didn't, he would probably fail the fifth grade. I also let him know that that was okay with me too. My son brought his grades up on his own.

It was hard to allow him the opportunity to fail or succeed on his own volition. So far, this method is working, but a parent must have many, many options to deal with smart, willful children.

Spanking never, ever worked with me (my dad thought it would work). It caused resentment and vengeful thoughts. That is not the kind memories I want my child to have when he thinks of his relationship with his parents.

[hiphopnation]

60. At some point

you have to step in especially if the child's safety is at issue i.e. you want to touch that hot waffle iron? Well you know everything so go ahead. Obviously you wouldn't do that, but I can't imagine letting my child decide 9 times out of 10 what is best for her. That's just me, though.

Then again this kind of psychology might work better coming from the mother than from the father. Just a thought.

[VermontDem2004]

61. You spank your kids if they touch a hot waffle iron?

:wtf:

[hiphopnation]

66. No.

I was using that as an example as a time to "step in" and prevent your child from doing something that would endanger thier physical safety.

[texastoast]

72. Yes, I would let them . . .

How many times did your mother tell you not to do something and you did it anyway? How many times did you "touch the hot stove" for yourself? For me, it was once. I happened to notice that my mom had been telling the truth when she told me I would burn myself.

My mother didn't "let" me decide. I would have decided in spite of what she advised (behind her back, of course). She was wise enough to recognize this in me and knew that the result SHE wanted for me had to come from me. She was the oldest of six children when her mother died and thus ended up being "mom" at a very early age. She had had a lot more experience by the time she was a real mom. She could raise successfully the most demonic of children.

And as far as spanking goes--how do you spank a six-foot four-inch 230 pound, football-playing 17-year-old? Do you get a bigger belt? 2X4? Spanking never earns respect--just fear. Do you want to cultivate respect out of fear or respect out of respect?

All of this depends on the child, and I happened to have been a very difficult one.

My husband parents this way as well. I don't see a difference between mother and father. It is important for parents to stay on the same page. Oh, I dreaded the "Wait till your father gets home" stuff, but never enough to stop my being willful.

[cally]

90. Depends on the child

I always tried to parent by protecting my child and teaching her. For one child it has worked, for the other one I was just wrong. Some children, yes she is willful smart and so risk adverse, she just has to learn herself. I should have let her touch the waffle iron on her own. She just needs to experience it rather than have me tell her. It is so hard with a teen, but it is the best way for her to learn.

[DemExpat]

78. It's not psychology stuff......it's common sense teaching

kids to learn what results of their behavior will be, and plenty of Dads learn loving, but sometimes FIRM ways to do this without physical, degrading action.

DemEx

[Paragon]

58. Obviously, spanking benefits the spanker, not the spankee

Blow off some steam on your three year old -- I'm sure he/she will take it in the spirit of discipline that it's offered...unless, of course, they're terrorized by the one or two people on the planet they've learned to depend on.

What an act of maturity to teach to your children.

[NashVegas]

If You're Spanking to Blow Off Steam, You Shouldn't Be Spanking.

As a small child, I was on the receiving end of 2-3 spankings applied by Mom. There was always a long enough wait to insure we would have plenty of time to consider the forth-coming consequences of our actions. Looking back, the anticipation was always worse than the act itself.

Birthday spankings applied by elder siblings were 5 times as tortuous and humiliating than the ones I received as disciplinary acts.

[kertnom]

59. Spank

I use much more disciplinary tactics to teach my kid between right from wrong.

[latebloomer]

63. Spanking indicates impotence and a loss of control

on the parent's part. It shows that the parent has exhausted all useful approaches and has failed miserably.

Spanking is an emotional response which teaches nothing but fear and fosters nothing but resentment.

When I hear people say, "Don't hit a child in anger" I think, That's the only way you would EVER hit a child, because if YOU weren't out of control, you wouldn't be hitting.

If you feel the impulse to hit a child, YOU need a timeout.

And yes, I'm a mother of two.

[kertnom]

65. Bullcrap

You are being to nice on the child, after all it is the child that is acting up and misbehaving. I occasionally wack my kid upside the head when he acts up, my dad did it and I grew up ok, I am married with two kids. What is a timeout going to do? Ok Billy sit in the corner for 5 minutes and don't do it again. You just gave him a soft slap on the wrist.

[latebloomer]

68. He slapped you upside the head?

That explains a lot.

[kertnom]

69. At least my kids listen to me

They don't talk back, they don't act up, they don't smoke the 'weed', they don't drink beer, and they are pulling a 'B' average in school. I think you are the one who needs parenting lessons.

[latebloomer]

70. Maybe they're terrified

and that's why they behave. I wonder what they'll do when they're out of your clutches.

BTW, you don't know shit about my parenting.

[kertnom]

71. I hit them from time to time but I don't abuse them

I challenge you to find one bruise my kids. I know how to parent which is why they do behave. My kid is going to go out and shoot up a school because I am not soft on them, I am a tough disciplinarian but my kids will thank me once they are grown up.

[latebloomer]

74. Your kid is going to shoot up a school?

Damn!

[kertnom]

76. You know what the hell I meant

I forgot to put the NOT in there.

[stanwyck]

85. Freudian slip?

your need to exert control over someone else in a physical sense is sickening. You need help.

[kertnom]

89. No

If the kids can control their own selfs then they won't have to worry about being "hit". Yes it does put a presense of fear but atleast the kid will think twice before he does something wrong.

[stanwyck]

92. Your spelling is giving you away

only those from the dark side have such poor spelling and grammar. You've been outed. What exactly is "presense"?

[kertnom]

94. Preseance

Is that how you spell it. I am not sure, I wish this website had an option so you can spell check your messages before you post it.

[greatauntoftriplets]

124. It is spelled presence.

[arcane1]

114. hitting children, and giving them "fear" is child abuse

and that's not an opinion, that is a FACT

[DemExpat]

75. I made A's, never talked back........

until after highschool I landed in a deep years-long depression.....
I was full of anger and fear, but never let my parents see this.

Hitting, slapping, spanking is violence - unloving and counterproductive IMO,

DemEx

[kertnom]

77. It is productive

Being a disciplinarian leads to good behavior.

[stanwyck]

83. Hitting is not being a disciplinarian

it's being a bully. You're bigger. You're stronger. You hit. You're not a parent. You're a person who resorts to violence against your own children.

[kertnom]

88. It's not violence you are overreacted

It is called being a good parent. A kid acts up you give him strike one, the kid acts up again you give him strike 2, the kid acts up you spank him. Is that clear?

[stanwyck]

91. I get it. You're not real

you're playing devil's advocate. You have no kids. You have no spouse. You're just having your version of fun.

[kertnom]

93. I have two boys

One 16 one 13, I don't have to spank my 16 year old anymore because he knows better but my 13 year old will act up occasionally. I do have a wife, her name is Liz.

[stanwyck]

100. Think about what you've taught your sons

the way to resolve a conflict is to hit someone else. Why would any rational parent want that as a lesson for their child?

[Iris]

116. why would any rational person want to live in a household

where you felt the need to hit someone on a regular basis?

[kertnom]

119. I don't have a need to hit someone

I discipline my children when they do something wrong, it's called parenting.

[stanwyck]

127. No. It's called BAD parenting.

You've lost control. You're not parenting. You're hitting. Your aim is to cause pain. You must lack the intellectual ability to discipline from authority and respect. You resort to brute force. Are you also "disciplining" your wife?

[Iris]

113. there are other ways to discipline children

And it has been proved time and time again that physical discipline is not all that productive.

[kertnom]

117. Who told you that?

My kids are doing well in school, they don't talk back, they don't get into fights, and they are respectful to me and my wife. It is productive.

[Iris]

121. This information appears occasionally on the news, in magazines,

professional journals.

[Castilleja]

125. The larger question to ask, then

is do your kids "behave" out of fear, or are they able to use critical thinking to decide what is a bad thing to do, do they know why, really, they should or should not behave in a given way, other than if they are caught they will get spanked.

[stanwyck]

130. Excellent point.

Spanking teaches nothing but might makes right. Also, physical pain is no deterrant to some kids. They'll take the spanking and repeat the behavior. It's worth it to them. They know what the punishment will be and go ahead with the behavior. Actually taking the time to make the child understand why their behavior is wrong and having a relationship with the child which is based on respect and approval is parenting. Spanking is for lazy people.

[stanwyck]

128. So, if they're so perfect

why are you hitting them? You're not making any sense.

[DemExpat]

73. Mother of two, never spanked them when they were little.....

and my example was a Dad who would come out swinging his leather belt or a rubber hose when he got home after Mom told him how we had misbehaved.......Don't know who I loathed more - Dad for his violence or Mom for being so weak and telling on us.

With my own kids I decided to take a more loving approach and TRY to break the cycle that is passed on and on to each generation.

I was creative, man, really creative in finding ways to teach them without getting frustrated and slapping or spanking them. Finding alternatives was a good trick, and giving them the option to do things without tantrums or not at all was another.

Perfect Mom I certainly was NOT, but my hard work and loving worked and I don't expect my kids to resort to spanking when/if they should have their children - can't imagine them resorting to that.

BTW, your original post betrays the truth of your spanking - when you
twice (actually 3 times!) say: I love my daughter. But man she knows my buttons. and if that trend is ever going to end then here might be a good place to start. But man she knows how to push my buttons........
You are spanking your kids because they know your weak points, like ALL kids do, and how to manipulate them! Only by owning up to your buttons and learning to deal with them will you be able to stop the cycle. What helped me most was remembering my pain, fear, and lack of self-respect, wanting to give my kids a different experience. Reading lots of books about alternatives gave me some tools too.

It is hard as hell, especially because raising and nurturing children is such hard work (along with the intense pleasure and love it brings!). But if you learn how to manage your temper better, along with learning tactics to help the kids behave more civilized, EVERYBODY in your family will win out.

Good luck with this, I'll bet that by posting here you'll start being more conscious of changing this pattern! You and your daughter will be happier for it too.

:hi: :hi: :hi:

DemEx

[hiphopnation]

79. Wow!

Thank you so much for this post. Chock full of positive info and affirmation. (not just deriding me for being a horrible parent)

You're right. This thread has been extremely eye-opening (see arwalden's posts) and helpful. I was a bit hesitant at first becasue I knew that many DUers were so staunchly opposed to it.

I truly am seeking out ways to be a better parent and I hate the feeling that comes with hitting my child. Thank you again for your post. I appreciate it. :)

[DemExpat]

80. You're welcome, hiphop!

I hope so much that your wanting to change will help you and your daughter find a better way!

:toast:

DemEx

[Old and In the Way]

101. Funny story.

My kids, between 3-6, got an occassional spanking when they needed it. I never did it when I was angry and I never took any enjoyment in it, but I understood that rational discussions with a 4-5 year old don't always convey the desired effect.

One of my sisters used to preach about how this was soooo cruel. She'd never do that. Turns out that her kids are inconsiderate JD's...and mine are quite normal and well adjusted. Is there are moral here? Spare the rod and spoil the child?

[Purrfessor]

81. I asked my five year-old daughter this question......

"If a kid does something really bad, should that kid be spanked?"
She answered, "No."

I then asked her: "Well, how should that kid be punished?"

Her reply: "Don't let her use the computer on that day that she was bad."

[Maine Mary]

84. You don't have to use violence

to "make" a child do the right thing. They WANT to please those who love them

[DemExpat]

87. Did your lovely daughter never have a contrary stage?

My son sure did, when he got to be about 11, my daughter only now and she's 'grown'! :D

:hi:

DemEx

[notadmblnd]

86. Honestly, I;ve never really had a reason that would justify me striking my

children. Of course that does'nt mean I dont' threaten to kill them on a regular basis. My motto has always been "I don't have to beat your butt, cause you're gonna beat your own".

If I do have to dicipline them for some reason, the punishment that I find works the best and actually hurts them more than a spanking is to make them sit in the living room with nothing to read, play with or watch and tell them when they are ready to explain to me why what they did was wrong, they can get up. My niece is 12 and my son is 10 now and there has'nt been a kid on the couch for a long time.

[Old and In the Way]

95. Politically incorrect, but

Sometimes you need to give them a sharp slap on the butt to get their attention.....I used it sparingly when they were in the 3-6 age range. No post traumatic stress that I am aware of.

[DemExpat]

97. Ya know, Old and In the Way, I really believe that

a sparingly used swat on the butt is unharmful and a useful tool, causing no trauma only if it is not executed out of subconscious anger and triggers of feeling from the parent.

I bet your kids turned out just fine. :-)

DemEx

[alwynsw]

96. Spank if it works

Take away priveliges if that works. No need to be abusive, but with some kids, spanking is the best tool. Parental judgement is the key.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

102. No to spanking- Not too long ago I was a kid.

Spanking just makes the child more upset. What is the difference between a hard spank and a light hit?? Why are some slaps considered discipline and others called child abuse? I think if we want to stop this kind of violence, it needs to start by stopping spanking and physical punishments.

[Uzybone]

103. I dont spank

because I dont believe its the most effective way to discipline, but I can understand why some parents would do some light and rare spanking. Kids can be a handful (I know).

[Loyal]

104. No

Children are human beings, and I think that spanking them is wrong. I consider it abuse.

I support more appropriate punishments, like grounding them for a couple months.

[NashVegas]

110. Haha! Grounding

Unless you are there in the home, with your children, to enforce a grounding or have some other means to enforce it, it's a joke!

[RedEarth]

105. We never spanked our children and our son was a "strong willed" child

Our children are in college and there were many times when we felt like spanking our son, however, we were able to use the time-out method to let him know we were the boss. It took a lot more patience, however, in the long run we felt it was the best method for us. As it turned out, our strong willed son will start his PhD work in a year.

[geniph]

106. Can a stepmother respond?

From my observations, and from reading this thread, I'd say you already are concerned about it, or why would you ask? That being said, no, I don't think spanking will necessarily warp a child, but I also don't think most of the time it's the best method. Kids often get defiant when they get spanked - I and my siblings got the living crap beaten out of us (to the point of broken bones and scars) and all it did is make us tough and violent and sneaky. On the other hand, my husband used spanking VERY sparingly with his two boys, and they're much less violent and sneaky than I and my siblings were. What my husband found when his boys were small was that a much better punishment was to take away a favorite privilege for a short time. His younger boy ran out into the street when he was three, in front of a car. John saw, and in his fear, he swatted the boy on the fanny. The boy started to cry, and John felt bad, but knew he hadn't really impressed on him that what he'd done was wrong, or why. Out of desperation, he came up with the punishment that worked - he said: "you know you aren't supposed to do that - you can't go over to your friend Jon's house for the rest of the week." Jacob then started crying in earnest, and John knew he'd hit on something.

Jake never ran out into the street again, at least not in front of his father. I wasn't supposed to run in the street when I was little, either, and got spanked for it (really spanked!) a couple of times. It taught me not to do it in front of my mother, so I got hit by a car when I was five.

I think it's quite possible to raise decent citizens whether you spank or no - it's not the occasional spanking that warps a kid, it's lack of love. I just don't think spanking works very well. And you should never spank for your own benefit, because YOU'RE mad or frustrated. Think about your motivations when you're starting to swing that hand - are you trying to scare? to physically intimidate? to get your own frustrations out? Those are not good motivations. If your motivation is to get attention or to punish the child so that they remember, there are nearly always better ways to accomplish that.

[Braden]

107. father of two very well behaved children

never been spanked. Never will. There are too many other ways to deal with bad behavior. That and our children are very well behaved on their own.

[BiggJawn]

108. Skin the hide off 'em...Figuratively speaking!

My ex-step-kids were never spanked.
I spanked my daughter.

My ex-steps all wound up either dead, in prison, or totally fucked-up.

My daughter is doing OK and will finish post-secondary school this winter with very high marks.

You do the math.

What other consequence can you put on the little ammoral shits? Physical pain is the only thing they're afraid of.
Just like me. Oh-I forgot-fear of un-employment is a strong motivator, but how many 12-yo's living at home have that to worry about?

[latebloomer]

111. I think you're leaving out a few variables

Doesn't quite follow that a child doesn't get spanked and winds up in prison or dead. I presume there were quite a few other influences that contributed to that miserable result.

As for fear being the only motivating factor, I beg to differ. Why do they have to be afraid of you? They can be unwilling to give up watching Nickelodeon for a night-- works just as good as being afraid of being hit-- better, because you're not traumatizing them.

[Iris]

118. you're right

in fact, every once in a while, a study pops up that has found most people in prison were physically abused in some way when they were children.

[bleedingheart]

109. I spank only in life threatening situations...like when

they run into the road.
I figure yelling and a good swat help get the message across.

I find taking toys away and time outs work fine in most situations.

[blondeatlast]

126. That's how I do it.

[Iris]

112. Spanking someone because she "pushes your buttons"

sounds a little like abuse to me.


But that's just my opinion.

[Book Lover]

115. Then be prepared for her to feel OK hitting you back someday (nm)

[a_random_joel]

120. We do not spank

Not that I am trying to tell anyone how to raise their children. At first I thought I would spank, after all I was spanked often(and even got the belt or worse every now and then).

My wife showed me a brilliant example that has kept me from spanking. It's called other kids in the neighborhood who do get spanked. None of them are any better behaved than our son. In fact many of them are worse. Spanking teaches nothing. Our son(he's only 3) used to hit my wife, and still does every once in a while. Spanking him would only reinforce his behavior as appropriate, IMHO.

So we do not spank. Our son will be exposed to plenty of violence in his lifetime, it doesn't need to be from his parents.

[tinnyguy1777]

122. Spanking is good----

especialy when used to release pent up pressures that arise from every day living. Not really, but just the threat of spanking seems to deter certain types of behavior. We raised 3 children, who are well behaved and productive citizens, with very little actual contact of that nature. The threat to spank was used at times, but the actual act very seldom used.

[Castilleja]

123. Not spanking, mom

I grew up with a considerable amount of it, and I just really prefer to help my kids reason stuff out, or ground or whatever else I may come up with. There are certain times that you may really have to, though. I do think that if you can't spank immediately, forget it. None of this "wait till we get home, let's make an appointment for me to whip your ass", that's just not right to me. But, what works for one set of parents, may not work for others.... :shrug:

[stilpist]

129. Assault and battery.

If you did it to anyone other than your children without their permission, you could be prosecuted. Why is it okay to do it to your children?

We raised two sons, now adults. Never hit them.

- stil