cars that should *never* be revived/remade:

[salin]

two for starters:

gremlin


pacer



Others that should join the list?

[DS1]

1. El Camino, and any other car/truck hybird

:puke:

[sbj405]

39. Too late

[-..__...]

104. Subaru Brat

With rear facing seats in the bed.

[salin]

108. those seats in the truck bed

always cracked me up.

[AntiCoup2K4]

44. Too late for that one

Chevy SSR (the "El Camino" for the 21st Century)

[Historic NY]

60. Actually they were around for a long time.....

Since they have gone lots of business's that used them have yet to fill the gap. (Mostly funeral homes & floral shops) They did get better gas MPG than the regular trucks and were slightly less in price.

[DS1]

90. I may not have a lot of money, but there's no fucking way I'd

transport either of my parent's caskets in a fucking El Camino

:puke:

[Historic NY]

118. No no, not for caskets but for floral pieces, chairs etc.

they used to make custom ones years ago until Ford & Chevy started making these. Now business's have to contend with expensive new conversions, which frankly are as ugly as sin.

http://www.4hearse.com/eagle_cdf.htm

http://members.aol.com/hearseq/

[cruadin]

2. The Ford Pinto...

[Deja Q]

4. .

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:
Have you driven a ford lately?
:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:


No, but my ass caught on fire...

[cruadin]

11. I drove my date to our Senior Prom in a '72 Ford Pinto.

I had to get a jump start to get home later that night.

That car was a piece of crap the day it rolled off the assembly line and age did nothing to improve it.

[Deja Q]

24. Yup, it's health care costs and NOT product quality which is the problem.

:eyes:

[Jackpine Radical]

47. I had a Pinto once.

I really wanted to get one of those bumper stickers for it that read
DANGER! UNEXPLODED PINTO

[DS1]

91. Good thing Ford took some typography lessons

Sheesh

[salin]

5. when I was a child

neighbors had a two tone pinto that I thought was soooo cooool. That was before pintos started blowing up.

[cruadin]

26. I knew a family that had the Pinto Station Wagon with ...

fake wood paneling on the side --- now THAT was coooool! ;)

[LeftyMom]

116. My family had one of those

and an AMC Javelin that would stall out in the freeway. It's a wonder I survived to adulthood.

[Spinzonner]

17. Ford's attempt to capture the Car Bomb market

[salin]

19. wonder if they are thinking

of bringing it back and selling them to rummy... you know, fight car bombs wiht car bombs... ;-)

[Ladyhawk]

62. Damn, you got to it first.

Our family had a Pinto. You could distinguish it from other cars when it was blocks away...sounded like a dying taun-taun.

[salvorhardin]

3. I love the Pacer! n/t

[donco6]

6. Can't forget the Vega

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/donco6/vega.bmp

[salin]

8. The Vega was a car of the year?

musta been a really bad year.

[donco6]

9. No kidding!

What a piece of s&it.

[ReadTomPaine]

18. The Vega was a good idea, poorly executed.

Even the Cosworth twincam unit was weak.



RTP

[Historic NY]

61. I saw one last week, but it was modified with a Chevy Big Block engine.

I kept hearing an engine with headers and couldn't figure out where it was. I was out in my old 47 Rod and then I saw it...a Vega modified with BB Chevy power. Must suck driving that thing around but from the looks it was a project car from years past.

[terrya]

43. My first car was a Vega.

It started rusting practically the minute it left the showroom. And that aluminum engine was a delight. :sarcasm:

[salin]

7. while looking for a pic of another candidate...

the Yugo (coudln't find a good pic) ran across a great Yugo joke:


How do you start a Yugo?

You push it out of an airplane.

[crimson333]

my brother in law got pulled over doing 105 in a yugo

according to the police officer.

the officer said I don't want to give you a ticket. I just want to know how you got the car to go that fast.

[salin]

79. *snicker*

I used to work near the children's museum in DC and had to walk past it daily. There was a car parked... and a ticket... days later another ticket... soon a boat load of tickets and a "boot."

Of course - it was a Yugo. Just died and abandoned.

[DBoon]

65. How do you double the value of a Yugo?

you fill up the gas tank

[Maine-ah]

10. eh, the Ford PInto.

we had one when I was a kid. Picture: 4 kids + two parents + 1 Ford Pinto = accident waiting to happen.

[xultar]

12. Anything made by AMC shouldn't have been manufactured.

Those were some OOOGLY Sawumbeeatch cars.

[TheMightyFavog]

67. What about the AMX Javelin?

[DS1]

92. HELLO Phallic advertising!

:eyes:

[qnr]

77. Including the Jeeps? n/t

[Jade Fox]

13. What about the Covair??

AKA the Deathtrap.

A friend of mine had one in high school, which we used to call (with the
arrogance of those young enough to think they will never die) the Coffin.

Didn't Ralph Nadar make his name pointing out the deadly design of the
Covair, whose steering column design virtually guarenteed death to
the driver if they were hit head-on?

[salin]

14. "Unsafe at Any Speed"

was the book.

[Jade Fox]

15. Ah, yes....

That title rings a bell.

In retrospect I can't believe our mothers let us drive around in that thing!

[salin]

16. your pic

reminds me (I don't know why) of the visual cover for the old PBS series... I, Claudius.

[Jade Fox]

23. Its from the Minoan culture (Island of Crete 3000-1500 B.C.)....

I imagine the I Claudius was Roman.

[ReadTomPaine]

22. His wife died in one and that is what started his activism. n/t

[salin]

25. I didn't know that

is what started his research into autosafety and his activism

[Jade Fox]

27. Good Lord, I had no idea!

Thank you, Ralph Nadar, for your work for consumers.

[1monster]

29. It is my understanding that Nader was never married.

He started his activism in Princeton and his book, UNSAFE AT ANY SPEED, was a continuation on an article he wrote years before, THE SAFE CAR YOU CAN'T BUY. That article was about how Detroit was designing cars for style, performance, speed, and planned obsolesence, but paid no attention to safty measures when there were millions of people killed or injured by car accidents every year.

[ReadTomPaine]

36. I retract my previous statement - my information was in error.

Not sure where I heard that information before, thank you for the correction.

[Spinzonner]

20. Driver Ka-bob ?

[TheMightyFavog]

63. In Defense of the Corvair

The car got a bad rap because of some high profile accidents and that asshole Nader's book. By the time Nader's book came out, Chevrolet had fixed pretty well much all of the handling problems that plagued the earlier models. The Later Corvairs were pretty good cars that never escaped the stigma of Nader's book.

[indy_azcat]

21. 'Civilian' Hummers

File under: Useless Shit

[short bus president]

28. Christine. n/t

[salin]

30. Winner!

[Bunny]

31. I learned to drive in a purple Gremlin.

I actually liked that car too, amazingly!

[salin]

33. I had a crush on a guy who drove one

then traded it in by a "brat 4x4"

[Zorro]

107. Purple Gremlins were great

The first car I owned was a purple Gremlin (bought it from my brother), and I have always thought that it had an undeserved reputation as unworthy transportation.

Mine had a manual transmission, was quite peppy, and could store an amazing amount of crap in the back. Because it was relatively low-slung and heavy for a small car, it got the driver pretty close to the road...which was great when I drove it cross country through a bunch of blinding sandstorms in Arizona.

Its styling cues were picked up by mid-late 80s Honda Civics, and I don't think I've ever heard anyone complaining about the styling of those vehicles.

The Gremlin's reputation needs rehabilitation, because there are too many people that never drove one that parrot the standard complaints about the vehicle.

[TheCentepedeShoes]

114. My first car

was a $2500 pale yellow Gremlin. Got some parking lot damage and I had it repainted in "Corvette Yellow." Looked cool. Car ran good, traded it after 7 years for a Chevy Monza piece 'o crap.

[Beware the Beast Man]

32. American Motors cornered the market on ugly-ass cars.

Only the Jeep was passable.

[salin]

34. Do you remember when American Harvester (tractors) briefly

made suvs? The Cub. Had a friend that drove hers while holding it together with duct tape.

[Jackpine Radical]

49. International Harvester?

They used to make the Scout.

I had an International pickup once. It burned a lot of gas, but it burned even more oil. You'd drive into the filling station & say "Fill up the crankcase & check the gas."

[TheMightyFavog]

69. Offroaders love 'em for some reason...

IHC Scouts are quite sought after amongst the hardcore off-roaders.

http://www.testosterone.biz/scout/



For a long time, IHC was the only brand of pickup and SUV that the State of Wisconsin would buy for the Department of Natural Resources.

[DS1]

93. I have a friend who owned an International Scout

The thing was built just like an International truck, only smaller, lasted forever.
and before anyone gets on the SUV owner blasting, he's got an IQ of 182 and does research for NASA

[salin]

95. My friend loved hers so much

that she drove it a couple of years passed its prime - relying on duct tape to keep some of the external pieces on it. She has a phd in biology - no dummy either. Just cracked me up how she kept the bumpers on the car. Blame it on the salt used in Michigan sorta ate away at it for years.

[CanuckAmok]

97. There's a farmer in Surrey BC with over 500 IHC Scouts.

Various states and conditions. He has ex military and government ones, weird prototypes, two-door models, four door models, snowplow (from the factory!) models, RHD mail- delivery models, etc.

He's a kook. Never fixes them or parts them out. He has three or four which he has plated; the rest just sit on his property.

[blockhead]

35. amc matador

[KitchenWitch]

37. Ford Pinto

[TK421]

38. Ford Tempo...a coffin on wheels

[TheMightyFavog]

71. Don't ask me why my dad loved those shitboxes...

I drove a 92. I hated it. Normally it had good milage, but when it came to travelling freeway speeds, because of the way the tranny eas, the engine would go at high RPMS, thereby making my little tempo eat gas like a Chevy Tahoe.

[TK421]

86. I had a '91, and whenever I turned a corner, it felt like it would

tip over (and I'm talking low sppeds, like 5 mph) It couldn't hold an alignment worth a damn, and it was CONSTANTLY in the shop, I swear every other week for something. Every time I brought it in, my mechanic would get a woody because he knew I would be paying out the ass for it.

[DemNoir]

40. No list of awful cars is complete without Chrysler

Volare

Cordoba

Horizon

Duster

And others...All great achievments in craptacular auto making.

[salvorhardin]

41. but the "real Corinthian leather"

made it all worth while. :-)

[6000eliot]

68. Sorry to correct you

but I think it was "rich Corinthian leather."

[salvorhardin]

75. Arggh! You're right!

And here I thought those Ricardo Montalban commercials were burned into my retinas. :-)

[AntiCoup2K4]

45. Chrysler/Dodge "K-cars"

They were named that because they were what K-Mart would have sold you if they were in the car business. Fucking pieces of shit.

[yellowdogintexas]

46. and thank God for Lee Iacoca (sp) and the turnaround of

Chrysler, which actually makes good cars again. I LOVE my SEbring!!!

*remembering fondly the Dodge Dartre that finally died w/200,000 miles on it.** My dad bought it used, drove the crap out of it on a country mail route for crying out loud, then gave it to my sister who also drove the crap out of it. 196? something.. Slant-6 Indestructo Engine.

[AntiCoup2K4]

51. No, Lee Iacoca is the one who made the shitty K-Cars

And that was AFTER a multi-billion dollar bailout with US taxpayer money, no less. I believe Iacoca is also responsible for the Pinto when he was working at Ford.

The reason their cars got better in recent years is because they're now Daimler-Benz (i.e. Mercedes} products. Thank God for Germans who know how to make cars.

[GOPisEvil]

54. Actually, those "bailouts" were loans. Chrysler paid them off early.

The K-car might have been boring and ugly, but they saved Chrysler. Lee Iacocca is the dumbass behind the Ford Mustang, too. Yeah, he's a real idiot, that Iacocca.

;-)

[CanuckAmok]

98. Let's make the "Mustang II" distinction, please!!

Iacocca had nothing to do with the classic Mustang or the Fox-body Stangs. He designed the craptacular 74(?)-78 "Mustang II" econobox.

But he wasn't the only dumbass at Ford; some other genius originally piloted the FWD, 4-cylinder automatic-based Probe as the replacement for the Mustang line.

Can you imagine?!

[salin]

99. whatever happened to the Probe

one day (living in Michigan) they are all over the place (and kinda cute).

next day (living in California) never to see another Probe again. Not even old ones from the day before.

Almost as if they were sold in Michigan exclusively ;-)

[CanuckAmok]

100. I think they never found a demographic...

The were too "econo" for the sports car buyer, and too "sports-car" for the tru economy driver. Competing against some of the best designed Japanese performance cars (Celica, Supra, RX-7, Nissan Z series) killed the Probe.

I had one as a loaner once. It was horrible. Terrible visibility, an noisy automatic tranny, underpowered, and a drivers seat with apparently the "Crushed Gravel Stuffing" option.

And it was burgundy with an alice blue corduroy interior :wtf: !!

[nytemare]

101. I had a "Mustang Ghia" as my first car

It looked...well..at least a little better than the Pinto. The passenger door would fly open when I made left turns, and I had to keep my foot on the gas at stoplights because the idling kept messing up. To this day, I drive with two feet.

My new Mustang is much, much better.

[yellowdogintexas]

57. Iacocca was also responsible for the minivan and the cab

forward cars (Intrepid etc) which preceded the Daimler Benz merger.

and Chrysler paid back the bailout ahead of schedule

[TheMightyFavog]

72. Horizon, reminds me of a song from one of the Car Talk Albums....

Horizon by the Arrogant Worms

From the deepest, darkest depths of...Whitby!
Comes this sordid tale of speed...
Murderous mayhem..
Cataclysmic combustion...
Picturesque powered pistons...
Accellerating automotive alarms...
Stunningly stupifying stereo stunts!
One man... a dream... a car... a 1984... plymouth... horizon...

I loved the car from tail to grill
I wouldn’t change a thing
I wouldn’t trade the ashtray
For the queen’s engagement ring
But things they started going wrong
And went from bad to worse
The clutch went kinda funny
Then I couldn’t use reverse
Still I loved my baby
And would not admit defeat
Just because it left a trail
Of rust along the street
It kept on running bravely
On duct tape and a prayer
Plus a monthly tribute to
The guy who did repairs
It all seems so unfair (the man was glad the day he bought)

Horizon!
Horizon!

Till one day on the parking lot
They called 401
My car became the meat between
A buick-honda bun
I saw some parts go flying
That you really need to drive
My car had become roadkill
Though it never was alive
Left a muffler in the passing lane
A hubcap in the slow
The windshield on the median
A headlight in the snow
And as I skidded off the road
The other drivers laughed
My middle-finger greeting
Would be my epitaph
Death would come at last (here lies the man who dared to buy)

Horizon!

Now I look at my bent fender
The twisted wheel rim
I wonder if horizon
Will ever drive again
But I know that this was not the end
Road warriors die hard
And I signed this mr. iacoca’s
Organ donor card
The steel will get recycled
And they’ll build another car
Bigger, faster, stronger
An automotive star
My quest will then begin
And revenge will soon be mine
As I drive my gleaming three-door
Orange chrysler frankenstein
Searching for that buick
To try to end it’s days
We’ll settle off the score
And then we’ll drive away (the sun will rise again on the)

Horizon!
My horizon!
My horizon!

[nevergiveup]

42. Kaiser and Frazer and the Henry J

[NorthernSpy]

48. the Cadillac Escalade

When they do retire that monstrosity, please let it stay dead.

[Taxloss]

50. The Bond Bug

[NorthernSpy]

53. that's not real, is it?

I mean, people don't really drive around in that thing -- do they?

[Taxloss]

55. It is real! There are whole websites devoted to it.

http://www.bondbug.co.uk/

Tom Karen, the designer, is a wonderful man who was responsible for a variety of things including the Raleigh Chopper and the Popemobile.

[Jackpine Radical]

52. The Edsel--

the car whose name became synonymous with "blunder."

[mcscajun]

78. Another vote for the Edsel...or I guess it's a vote against.

:)

[RetroLounge]

84. Not blunder, maybe failure. Educate yourself...

"There was a combination of other factors that led to the name "Edsel" becoming synonymous with "failure" - By the time the first Edsel hit the showroom, the country was in a recession. (For comparison, 1958 DeSoto sales were down 54% from 1957. Buick was down 33%, Mercury 48%, Oldsmobile 18%, Dodge 47%, Pontiac 28%.. probably the worst year since World War II to unveil a new car line!) Car-buying habits had turned toward smaller and more fuel efficient cars. Edsel's styling was radical, and not to everyone's liking. On the assembly line, Edsel was run between Fords or Mercury's, causing the assembler to have to interrupt his routine and sometimes forget to install some parts. The Edsel also suffered from parts that wouldn't fit together correctly. Because of problems with suppliers, many of the early cars arrived at the dealerships with parts missing. Many dealers were poorly equipped to replace the parts or add on accessories. Ford Vice President Robert McNamara offered little support to the Edsel Division. The Edsel was more expensive than other comparable cars, and the price of the loaded, top-of-the-line models that were first on the showroom floor scared many buyers. There was no owner loyalty to count on. And, finally, it had a funny name."

http://www.edsel.com/pages/edsel58.htm

1958 Edsel Innovations

Self-Adjusting brakes (new with Edsel - still used today)
Floating speedometer that glows when a pre-set speed limit is exceeded
Transmission locks in park until ignition key turned (new with Edsel - still used today)
Top portion of seats slant forward to provide shoulder support
Triple-thermostat cooling system (head/block/radiator) during warm-up for increased fuel economy & heater performance
Front-mounted distributor, coil, fuel pump, oil filter dipstick for easy access.
Hood hinged in the front for safety (Although this somewhat limits access to the aforementioned distributor, etc!)
Hood release controlled electronically, from inside the car.
The front seats were split 60/40 for better driver comfort.

Here is a list of the available optional equipment and accessories, sorted by their retail prices:

Dial-Temp Heater/Air Conditioner (Citation/Corsair) $460.15
Dial-Temp Heater/Air Conditioner (Ranger/Pacer/Wagons) $417.70
Teletouch Automatic Transmission (The only option for Citation and Corsair) $231.40
Column Automatic Transmission $217.70
Overdrive Transmission $127.45
Radio (Signal Seeking "Town & Country", w/Electric antenna) $119.50
Power Windows - All 4 (Not available on Roundup) $100.95
Radio (5-tube standard, w/manual antenna) $95.25
Dial-Temp Heater/Defroster $93.45
Power Steering (Standard on Citation and Corsair) $84.95
Power Seats $76.45
Power Windows - Front only $55.65
Whitewall Tires 8.50 x 14 $44.25
Power Lubricator (Not available on Ranger/Pacer) $42.50
Whitewall Tires 8.00 x 14 $40.35
Power Brakes $38.25
Tinted Glass (Required with Air Conditioning) $34.00
Tri-tone Paint (Hardtop Pacer/Citation/Corsair only) $30.85
Wheel Covers with Spinner applique $27.70
Spotlight (Left or Right) $26.75
Two-tone Paint (Top and Scallop) $26.60
Power Antenna $24.40
Dual Exhaust (Standard on Citation convertible) $23.45
Padded Dash and Sun Visors (Standard on Citation) $22.65
Seat Belts (Front seat only) $22.50
Foam Rubber Cushions (Standard on Citation/Corsair) $21.25
Speed Warning Light $18.00
Two-tone Paint (Top or Scallop only) $17.00
Rocker Panel Mouldings (Not available on station wagons) $16.75
Dual Rear Deck Antennas $16.00
Rear Speakers (Not available on convertibles or wagons) $16.00
Electric Clock (Standard on Citation) $15.95
Tachometer $14.95
Wheel Covers $12.75
Heavy Duty Battery $12.65
Low Oil Warning Light $12.50
Carpet (Standard on Citation and Corsair) $12.30
Electronic Trunk Release $12.00
Positive-Action Windshield Wipers $11.70
Windshield Washer $11.50
Front Seat Foam Cushions $10.70
Rear Seat Foam Cushions $10.55
Oil Filter (Standard on Citation and Corsair) $9.15
Front Bumper Guards $8.95
Rear Bumper Guards (Not available on station wagons) $8.95
Back-up Lights $8.50
Low Fuel Warning Light $8.25
Padded Sun Visors $8.00
Extra Cooling Fan $7.60
Compass $7.10
Color-keyed Floor Mats (Front & rear) $6.95
Paper Air Cleaner $6.75
Traffic Light Viewer $5.90
Hooded Side Mirror $5.85
Courtesy Lights (Standard on Citation, Corsair and Pacer convertible) $5.35
Spotlight Bracket (Required with Spotlight) $5.00
Exhaust Deflectors $4.40
License Plate Frames $4.05
Adjust-O-Ring Side Mirror $3.95
No-Glare Rear-view Mirror $3.70
Engine Compartment Light $3.30
Luggage Compartment Light $3.30
Locking Gas Cap $2.95
Rear Door Child Safety Lock Covers $2.95
Oval Side Mirror $2.75
Parking Brake Warning Light $2.75
Curb Feelers $2.50
Glove Box Light (Standard on Citation) $2.25

and no, I do not own one...

RL

[meppie-meppie not]

56. Pontiac Sunburst

[solinvictus]

58. I'd say the Pontiac Aztec, but they still make it. N/T

[VOX]

59. The Ford Maverick...

My dad had a mid-70s Maverick, and it was without question one of the cheapest, tinniest, worst-designed pieces of shit ever to roll down a street.

The wheels were "designed" so that the tire valves would blow off *every* time you gently brushed a high curb while parallel parking, which emptied your tire's air with startling speed.

The manual window cranks were "strategically" placed mere inches from the (very) sharp door handles, and you were assured of getting bloody knuckles each time you opened the driver's window.

I have nothing but utter contempt for the memory of that car. :grr:

[warrens]

64. Those two top my list

Ugly, awful cars that were death traps due to poor steering, lousy frames and horrible weight distribution. I nearly got killed in a Gremlin one time.

[Lady Effingbroke]

66. the Trabant.

[TheMightyFavog]

73. I saw a picture somewhere...

Of a navy Carrier Crew Launching a Trabi off of the flight deck with the catapult.

I can't belive that there are people in Germany who actually like these cars. Their Blu smoke belching two-stroke enginges (yes, I said two-stroke) aren't exactly umweltfreundlich.(environmentally-friendly)

[Kellanved]

89. but the trabi on the photo has interesting plates

"MTK", a high-income West German county near Frankfurt.

And truth be told: the Trabi looks kinda cute.

[Hardrada]

70. Chevette

Ours only started every other time. Chevy Cavalier wagons, would start but were woefully underpowered. Nash Rambler wagons. Still shudder at them. Cadillac Cimarrons. Not a good idea. Dragged down the marque by being too destructible and puny.

[MrSandman]

74. Matador...

http://www.geocities.com/mmbb444/Matador.html

[salin]

81. those amc cars

just keep appearing on this list... hmmmm

[MrSandman]

85. 1970's genius of design...nt

[tinfoilinfor2005]

76. YUGO? N/T

[salin]

80. I forgot... Le Car!

[Misunderestimator]

82. That's what I was going to post...

I actually wanted to get one of those my last year of high school... because they were so cheap. Glad I didn't buy one.

(edited for typo)

[salin]

83. I wanted the brand new vw rabbit

only 3,499! My parents response: We laugh in your general direction.

Mostly - they were paying for college tuitioon - and the campus was maybe 8 square blocks.

[Kellanved]

88. That one has a successor

The Le Car was named R5 in Europe; in the 90s the series was re-namd "Clio".

The current incarnation looks like this:

[DS1]

94. I owned one of them

I'll tell ya, there's nothing like STANDING UP with your three other buddies while doing 70 down the hightway. Good times, good times.

[auntAgonist]

87. I owned a Pacer,

it was silver and one of the most comfortable cars I've ever driven or sat in. Very stable on the road. The passenger door was larger than the driver side door for ease of getting in and out of the back seat. I really liked it. Sure it looked like a fishbowl, but I'd have another one if I could.

just my .02


aA

[CanuckAmok]

96. Aw....AMC always gets picked-on in these threads.

I love AMC cars. I've had a Matador, two Concordes, and a 4x4 Eagle wagon. They were really good cars! When I was a kid, we had a Gremlin X (with the optional V-8 and Levis denim interior package!), and it was a rocket!

They were prone to rust in the front fenderwells, but the frames and drivetrains were solid. The Gremlin suffered from being too ligfht in the rear for the power it put-out, but a few cinder blocks in the cargo area fixed that problem.

The Pacer was a great idea, but compromised from the get-go. It was completely innovative in the areas of passenger comfort and convenience (few people know this, but the passenger door was longer than the driver door, for ease of access to the rear seat). It was AMC's econo-box, and it had excellent safety and visibility design. It's biggest problem was the fact that it was designed around the innovative and economical Wankel rotary engine (which later appeared in the Mazda RX-7 for decades), but in the last months of pre-production, the licensing agreement between AMC and Wankel fell through, and AMC foolishly chose to pair the Pacer with a woefully inadequate 4-banger from their own design team. That and the terrible Renault 5-speed gearbox made the poor Pacer an underpowered, unreliable albatross.

[onager]

102. Some good Edsel lore...

I've read a couple of good "insider" books about the Edsel cock-up. The Edsel Affair by Gayle Warnock (a marketing insider) and Edsel: The Motor Industry's Titanic by Robert Daines.

You have to remember that the Edsel STARTED as a good idea. Ford had lost customers to GM for decades because GM had a product line that spanned a buyer's entire driving career.

He or she started out with a Chevy or Pontiac, moved up to an Olds, then a Buick, and hopefully became successful enough for a Cadillac.

Ford had only its namesake car line and Mercury (which was only created in 1940). Then there was a yawning gap until a buyer could afford its luxury car, the Lincoln. Buyers able to "move up" out of Fords, but who couldn't afford a Lincoln, were more likely to buy a GM product than a Mercury.

So what happened? A lot. For one thing, the president of the Ford division at the time was Robert S. McNamara.

Whatever bad decisions he made later...cough, cough...McNamara was dead right about the Edsel. He hated the whole idea, especially as it ran out of control and became a gimmick-laden parody of Fifties Americans "Bulgemobiles."

The marketing people and bean-counters at Ford generally hated McNamara. Believe it or not, he was a sort of corporate version of Ralph Nader. McNamara's idea of a good American car was the 1960 Falcon, which he personally rammed down Ford's corporate throat: sensibly-sized, economical cars with few frills.

But big cars and more frills mean a higher mark-up, since it costs the industry about the same overall to build either a Falcon or a Lincoln.

Ford Corporate handed McNamara a big gift when they ruled that the Edsel would be a totally separate line, joining two other makes in a new division ("MEL," for "Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln.") That meant the albatross wouldn't be hanging around the neck of McNamara's Ford divsion.

Corporate also issued orders that only the top employees would be transferred to Edsel.

Probably after he finished rolling on his office floor laughing, McNamara in fact made sure that only Lemon Employees got transferred to the Edsel division.

He also made sure that he and his associates stayed FAR away from the whole Edsel effort. And when the Edsel tanked, McNamara was one of the first to say "I told you so."

[carpetbagger]

103. Pacers combined weird frenchie look with American mileage.

Double disaster, a gas-guzzling egg.

If I remember right, they got about 17mpg.

[Goldmund]

105. I grew up in this thing

[salin]

109. called the "sport"?

it is indeed a sporty looking car.... to a old vw beetle/stationwagon.

[Goldmund]

111. It's called Renault 4

[Cornjob]

106. Fiats (all models) and Volkswagen Dasher

I had the misfortune of owning a new '75 Fiat 124 Spider convertible.
It was a beautifully-styled pile of crap. Everything imaginable, except the engine and tranny broke.

When it died at an early age, I replaced it with a snazzy new VW Dasher.
The Dasher proved to be Germany's answer to the Fiat. It was plagued by accelerator cable failures, a bad electrical system, broken CV joints, and finally died of a massive head gasket failure.

My wife's boss (a doctor) recently sank $35k into a pimped-out Passat.
It is interesting to see that the Dasher's lack of reliability lives on 30 years later! It is a miserable excuse for a car!

[salin]

110. *snicker*

this post cracks me up.

[Kellanved]

112. oh, the old "F.I.A.T" joke

For Italians Acceptable Technology.
:hide:

[onager]

113. It follows the First Rule Of Italian Car Engineering...

"If you can't see the part, it doesn't rust."

The Italians may have stolen that rule from the British, though.

[Cornjob]

115. A true story about that Fiat Spider....

My wife and I drove that new car to Ft. Lauderdale. Upon arrival we found that the trunk would not open. We drove to the local Fiat dealer whereupon two mechanics attempted to force it open. They immediately mangled the (aluminum) sheet metal. Their boss was livid when he saw what they had done to our car!

Turns out Fiat had issued a bulletin about the problem that they had not read. The fix involved drilling a large hole behind the license plate and using a screwdriver to trip the release.

Later when I complained about the damage to Fiat N.A., the (Italian) rep said that "the Spider is like an Italian woman... beautiful to look at but with many problems." I still laugh about that reply.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot... on our next trip the radiator fan circuit failed on the George Washington Bridge in NYC. I kept dumping water into the boiling radiator until I could get a switch at a hardware store and wire it up to make it work.

[Hardrada]

117. Renault Dauphine

Even their roofs rusted.