On Cliques and Elitism...

[Misunderestimator]

First a brief history. I have never in my life been a part of a clique, though I came close once. I won't go into my home life as a child other than to say that it was not an easy or happy one. When I was 10 we moved to the country, to a small farming town in Texas with 769 residents, one gas station a general store and five churches. That summer I met a girl my age who lived nearby. We became best friends, and she introduced me to her best friends. Was the happiest summer of my life.

Sometime during the first week of fifth grade, that fantasy of being part of a group came to an end. I noticed this boy who everyone teased mercilessly. He never said a word, never interacted with anyone. I had no idea why everyone teased him aside from the fact that he was a small kid. I felt sorry for him, so one day I went up to him at recess, sat next to him and kissed him. Not one word was exchanged.

Within hours I realized that I had become a "freak" by association. Boys lined up along the hallway as I passed by. Pulled my hair in class. Called me all sorts of names. I was the perfect kid to be put in this role, since I had already had my self-esteem pretty much destroyed at home.

I went into a shell, felt sorry for myself, cried every day. I was lucky enough that I had music and reading to see me through. I would lock myself in my room and play the piano for hours, or read a book I took from my father's library from cover to cover.

From that point on through high school, I made one or two friends as well as a couple of boyfriends but never let down my walls enough to have any real friends. It wasn't until I went to a music conservatory when I was 18 that it began to dawn on me that maybe I wasn't really such a freak. Or at the very least, there were plenty of freaks just like me in the world.

Even then, the training I'd had for those years did its damage, and with the exception of other musician friends I've made, I still have never felt part of a group. Always felt like an outsider who can't quite ever fit in.

Fast forward to now. I joined DU a little over a year ago. It took months for me to start to feel what I feel today, which is that this really is a community. I have friends here, some of whom I've met (one of whom I fell in love with), but most I've never met. I'm part of a group, and I really like that.

Speaking for myself, I have never intended to exclude anyone nor have I ever felt "better" than anyone because I have friends here. I do however, understand how someone coming into this environment might feel excluded. So for anyone who I've made to feel excluded, my apologies, and welcome to DU!

:toast:

[salin]

1. Cheers!

Here here!

I echo your sentiment. :toast:

For most of my time here at DU - the lounge has been the most upbeat, funny, sometimes controversial and crazy place at the wonderful DU.

Tensions happen. Dynamics get skewed in that course - seen it happen before - and as with any group - we can make 'course corrections'... easy enough to do. Sad that it sometimes takes a 'wakeup call' to realize a slight correction to the course is needed - but good enough.

:hi: to all :hi:

[Misunderestimator]

3. Thanks, salin.

Your posts these past couple of days make a lot of sense. :toast:

[salin]

27. Thank you

That last dust up... certainly got emotions on edge and on high. Was starting to think I am trying to talk some sense into a vortex (the wake of the dustup) which has sucked in some of my favorite friends and the vaccuum was making the voice disappear each time I tried to speak.

Back to your OP and thread... it is so hard to see, when in the middle of a room, esp if one has been holding onto the railings because the room has been tipping and spinning - that maybe - and completely unintentionally one is a part of something that unexplicably morphed in tone and was giving off the opposite emission of what was really intended. It happened during the primary season, if you recall. At times the tension just made most interactions - even in the lounge - labored.

Your beautiful post - is like a lifting of a viel - letting some sunlight and hope back into the room. I think I may even smell some roses and lilies in the room...

:loveya:

[auntAgonist]

2. I've never felt excluded by you or anyone else here

It does take a while to get to know folks though, I'm still learning.

thanks for your post!


:hi:

[Misunderestimator]

4. I haven't either...

But having had the experience in my past of feeling excluded, it's easy to put myself in those shoes too. It can be intimidating here... depending on how you look at it or what you feel you can contribute.

I truly don't think there really are cliques here, it's just the nature of a "lounge" to form sub-parties. Threads here are often almost like chatrooms. Then there's the revelatory troll exposures recently... that can dampen one's trust a bit, and for new posters, it may translate to exclusion.

:hi:

(On edit... I'm glad I've never made you feel excluded. :))

[JimmyJazz]

5. It's a lovely post - I think you express the sentiments of many of us here

I have never intended to exclude anyone. Thank you :hug:

[Misunderestimator]

7. Thanks, JJ

:hug: (And I'm glad you stuck around.)

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DistressedAmerican]

6. Well Put Buddy! Does That Mean You Don't Want Any Part Of MY Clique?

I'll have the recruiters give you a call!:toast:

[Misunderestimator]

8. Well...

I didn't say I didn't want to be a PART of any cliques, did I? I've already signed up for yours! :toast:

[johnnie]

9. I am a clique. But it is just me

You never made me feel excluded. In fact I was here at least a year before you came here, and you were one of the first people on DU to engage in a conversation with me.:)
It's hard to imagine you being treated that way as a kid, but I'm glad you hung in there and are here today.
A lot of kids can be cruel, and I saw a lot of them being that way when I was a child. I got some shit as a child for my height, but I just mouthed back to them. My father was only 5' 8" or so, but man...he walked tall. He was also a Marine, so he had that thing about him. He instilled in me the importance of individuality and also to treat people with the respect I would want to be treated with. He also taught me that I shouldn't let people get away with picking on me. I never did. But I also stuck up for the other kids being picked on, and it seemed to always go well. I was also a leader when I was a child, and I followed nobody. I am still like that. Now I am yapping too much. Lol.
It's always good to see your posts, and once again... i am glad you are here at DU.
:hi:

[Misunderestimator]

11. Aw..

That made me cry. I wish you'd gone to my school ;) :hi:

[goodboy]

10. I didn't realize you played piano. I'm a professional pianist!

KEWL. We have something in common. What kind of piano do you have at home?

I've got a Yamaha Clavinova CVP307 like this one:

<>

[Misunderestimator]

14. Well, my last piano was a Wurlitzer spinet...

But I sold it with my house in upstate NY. That was almost five years ago... :cry: I've moved three times since then and I keep saying when I finally settle in one home, I will get one again. (And... someday, hopefully not anytime in the near future, I will inherit a 1923 Steinway baby grand.)

For now, I just bug the hell out of anyone who owns a piano :)

I've played since I was 5 years old. I was professional singer, but I have made money accompanying and stuff like that. Nothing recently... I REALLY miss having a piano. I think I need to buy one next week.

[goodboy]

24. what a coincidence...

I sell pianos for a living. check your PM's

[Misunderestimator]

29. Cool!!!

Now how do I get a deal? :D

(I'll say though, I'm a little hesitant to buy a piano without playing it first... make that very...:))

[goodboy]

91. depends on what kind of piano you're looking at.

Yamaha pianos are so consistant, you can buy them sight unseen. Play one at your local dealer, and I'll make it happen for you.

[cleofus1]

12. so you play percussion eh....

talent...intelegance and charm...you're quite the package...

[cleofus1]

13. damn...

did i just misspell intelligence?

[Misunderestimator]

21. psst...

I know you've been here a while and all, so I'll just whisper it...

There's an edit link on the bottom of the post, where you can go back and fix typos. :bounce: :D :D :D

[Misunderestimator]

16. LOL, percussion?!?

You are too funny, cleofus1! I do LOVE your posts! :hi:

[DS1]

15. That's a nice story and all

and I'm sorry for your shitty childhood, but I truly think the 'clique' accusations in the lounge are bullshit.

[Misunderestimator]

18. LOL

Not sure why, but that made me LOL... :rofl: I love you DS1. :hi:

[DS1]

25. And I love you, Commander Yar

NSMA is a lucky woman, I wish you many years of happiness together.

[Misunderestimator]

38. LOL

Thanks... :hug:

[redqueen]

71. How did I miss that?

She does look like Commander Yar! Or vice versa... whatever.

[FuzzySlippers]

17. I would compliment you on that post

but I don't think you're part of my clique.:P

[Misunderestimator]

19. Who the hell are YOU?

:P :bounce:

[terrya]

20. A very nice post, Misunderestimator

It has been unfortunate as of late that events here have caused some good, true, genuine liberal Democrats who have registered here to be reluctant to post because of feelings of "I don't fit in" or just feeling a bit intimdated about making their voices heard. I was that way when I joined. And then, because of some very good people here, I made myself known.

To those true, genuine (I'm not being real subtle here, am I? :-)) liberal Democrats who are a part of DU. Welcome to Democratic Underground. And please, come in and be a part of this community. :toast:

[Misunderestimator]

23. Thanks, terry.

and that was definitely subtle enough for me ;)

[Lars39]

22. You're a sweetheart, Misunderestimator.

:hug:

[Misunderestimator]

32. Aw, thanks...

:blush:

[Left Is Write]

26. You're a nice person.

That's mostly what I've noticed about you. :)

I've been accused, on other bulletin boards, of being part of a clique, one of the "popular" crowd.

That astounded me. It still does. I would never intentionally be exclusionary.

[Misunderestimator]

33. I didn't mean this to be a self-appreciation thread or anything...

swear... :) and thanks. :hi:

[Texasgal]

28. You are HANDS DOWN

One of my favorite posters! ( As well as NSMA )

When I first got here almost a year ago, I was exited to be here but afraid to post, I lurked for the longest time. I was afraid that I wouldn't have anything intelligent to add. There are some really witty people here on DU, and even though I have a formal education I always felt somewhat awkward. I still do sometimes.

The thing I absolutely ADORE about you is that you bother to talk to people, you bother to bring out some of the best damn debates I have ever seen!

I really want to say THANK YOU for helping me overcome some of my unwillingness to post on some threads, you paid attention to me! (ME? of all people ) you took the time to READ my posts and respond, no matter how un-witty!

Thank you Misunderestimator, your the greatest!

[Misunderestimator]

31. Aw... everyone's making me mushy now...

Texasgal... :hug: What a sweet thing to say.... and you must be witty, or why would I have paid any attention to you? :D (j/k, well, not joking about the witty, but the paying attention...er.. you know what I mean :)) I love your posts, TG. :hi:

[leftofthedial]

30. Oh, so you're a clique of one then

just teasing.

I'd be glad to not be a member of your non-clique . . . that didn't come out right.

:hi:

[Misunderestimator]

34. Misunderestimator's Underestimated Unclique

:hi:

[salin]

35. Makes me thirsty for some seven up

the UNcola

[Misunderestimator]

36. LOL...

[salin]

37. Love IT!

[bigwillq]

39. What a heartfelt post!

Thanks for sharing some pretty intimate details!
Thanks for bringing some class to the lounge!

You're the best!:hi: :pals:

[Misunderestimator]

48. You're the best too, will!

:pals:

[VOX]

40. Beautiful post, Mis...

In those dreadful early years, sometimes kids can be as cruel as adults. And it all sticks in memory.

As one who shared a kinship with the outsider smart-boy in your recollection, a belated thank you for kissing him, even though you paid dearly for that gesture of kindness.

I've always thought that the pain and curse of being a chronic outsider also brings a certain blessing: the vision of the observer -- the ability to see things from the clarity of perspective and distance, as uncomfortable as that removal may feel at times. And that is fuel for your art, be it music, writing, acting, or whatever.

Thanks for revealing this bit of your past, and thanks for being just who you are. :hug:

[Misunderestimator]

49. I remember taking comfort in something I heard once...

that at least half of your life is going to be a struggle, and it's better to get the bad part out of the way first. I still have my share of struggles, but nothing like those years.

Thanks for the post. :hug:

[Hardrada]

56. I had a sense of distance early

when I moved to a new school in third geade and never quite fit in. I've only been to one Homecoming. But I have made much use of my ability to step back and be detached.

[hfojvt]

41. would you be a fan of this song?

"I have my books, and my poetry to protect me.
I am shielded in my armor
hiding in my room, safe within my womb
I touch no one and no one touches me."

I would, if I could, I surely would.

[salin]

43. S & G

was that in I am a rock?

[salin]

44. another one...

I learned the truth at Seventeen
That love was meant for beauty queens
and high school girls with clear skinned smiles
who married young and then retired
The valentines I never knew
The friday night charades of youth
Were spent on one more beutiful
At seventeen I learned the truth...

.... (of course this one also had a 'warning/reversal')
So remember those who win the game
Lose the love they sought to gain
In debentures of quality and dubious integrity
There small town eyes will gape at you
in dull surprise when payment due
exceeds accouts received at seventeen

http://www.janisian.com/lyric-at_seventeen.html

[Misunderestimator]

46. That was one of my favorite "feel sorry for myself" songs...

when I was seventeen... :)

[salin]

47. mine two

and one of the early songs I used to help teach myself guitar.

[Misunderestimator]

45. I don't know that song...

It would have been fitting at the time though. :)

[mcscajun]

76. "I Am A Rock" -- you must get "Sounds of Silence" by Simon & Garfunkel

Simon and Garfunkel
The Sounds of Silence (1966)

I Am A Rock

A winter's day
In a deep and dark December;
I am alone,
Gazing from my window to the streets below
On a freshly fallen silent shroud of snow.
I am a rock,
I am an island.
I've built walls,
A fortress deep and mighty,
That none may penetrate.
I have no need of friendship; friendship causes pain.
It's laughter and it's loving I disdain.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

Don't talk of love,
But I've heard the words before;
It's sleeping in my memory.
I won't disturb the slumber of feelings that have died.
If I never loved I never would have cried.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

I have my books
And my poetry to protect me;
I am shielded in my armor,
Hiding in my room, safe within my womb.
I touch no one and no one touches me.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

And a rock feels no pain;
And an island never cries.

[Misunderestimator]

77. LOL... I guess I DO know that song!

Silly silly me... :) (I guess I needed the refrain to recognize it.)

[mcscajun]

79. Well, All RIGHT!

:)

Glad I was able to jog your memory.

[hunter]

85. I am a rock, I am an island.

I've never had to build any walls, they came with my package. The hard part for me has always been climbing over the walls or swimming away from the islands.

In lesser worlds I am perfectly content to write code and build machines all day, and for this reason I am very fortunate that places like DU exist. I value very much the friendships and acquaintances I've made here.

[sundog]

42. thanks for the post mis

I belonged to a clique called "the mooses" - I kid you not... we tended to reap the spite of the other cliques unilaterally... x(

but I wouldn't have had it any other way... just showed me a lot of things I needed to learn at a young age...

social groups are unavoidable... they are always a mixed bag.. but like you mentioned, this place brings me some sunshine :)

[Misunderestimator]

50. The mooses... LOL

You bring the sunshine with you, sundog! :hi:

[sundog]

51. yes, the mooses

4 of the 5 guys in that clique would later come out of the closet...

I guess that would have made the girls FFHOA -- "Future F*g H*gs of America" :P

[KoKo]

52. There's lots we could be doing on DUrather than "navel gazing" ...but then

what do I know. :shrug: The Lounge is an important part of DU for so many...but for the rest of us it's a "resource."

There are good folks here. But, it seems sometimes a place where folks congregate because they have "given up" on the Poltical Scene in the other Forums.

I wish more of you could come back "above ground" and get into the "fray" again. And maybe you do. But so much down here seems to be escapism. But then isn't that what the "DU LOUNGE" was supposed to be?

So..it's good that you are fighting battles down here that many find "beyond us."

Hey...it's a BIG TENT...but sometimes I wonder if we go over into a "Circus" rather than what Martin Luther King and John F. Kennedy were hoping for.

I don't know..:shrug: And I don't want to sound like a "School Marm" chiding, chiding, chiding. But, I do....:-(

[Misunderestimator]

86. Had to read your post a few times...

before I could respond. I was taken aback by the "navel gazing" part of it, but after re-reading a few times, I think I agree with you? :)

And, yes, since the election, I've jumped out of the fray a bit, gradually easing my way back in... lots of other reasons such as moving across the country and getting settled here have taken my focus off politics (relative to what it HAD been prior to Nov 2) too. But I hear what you're saying. It is a circus sometimes, and it would be great to channel that energy to better use (though, escapism can also be a necessary pursuit).







School Marm. :D :hi:

[enigmatic]

53. Now that's what I'm talkin' about...

Since this whole thing has happened I've really fallen in like w/ you and your posts; this is another great one:)

[Misunderestimator]

58. Thanks, enigmatic.

I think we agree more than we disagree. I appreciate the post. :hi:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

54. kick

[Zomby Woof]

55. Cliques can damage one's reputation

Through lies, rumors, and slander.

Through believing the smears of a vengeful person.

Some may say they are not part of a clique, or that they do not mean to be, but make no mistake - that 'some' could have wrought much destruction upon the reputation of a good and decent human being, by perpetuating vicious slander.

[Misunderestimator]

57. Oh, now you have me intrigued...

I'm not sure what that means, but it sounds interesting. :hi:

[Zomby Woof]

59. That's as far as I will take it

:hi:

[Misunderestimator]

61. Ok, I guess I'll be satisfied with the knowledge...

that I'm not part of whatever clique that is... :hi:

[Zomby Woof]

63. You are not, I assure you

I trust you are a person who would reserve judgment on me fully after knowing me, and I in return would do the same for you. That is what we all would like, I would think. :-)

[DoveTurnedHawk]

93. I Can't Wait Until You Move to SoCal

And we all get you drunk so you can start telling tales. ;-)

DTH

[fishnfla]

60. You've only been at DU for over a year?

I could've sworn you were a long-timer.

Anyway, welcome to DU :toast:

[Misunderestimator]

62. Hahaha... Thanks for the welcome!

:toast:

[progmom]

64. I'm too self-involved to read your whole post

But...can I be in your clique?




















Just kidding. Beautiful post. I didn't know it was possible to respect you more than I already did, but you brought me to a whole new level. :hug:

[Misunderestimator]

67. I thought...

that I was already part of your click! :hi: :loveya:

[MrSandman]

65. No apologies necessary...

I come here for enjoyment,not validation.:pals:

on edit...no, I don't mean to imply I have felt "excluded." It has just never crossed my mind that I might be....s

[Misunderestimator]

69. Thanks, MrS

:pals: Before the last couple of days, it never crossed my mind either.

[In_The_Wind]

66. We've spared once or twice

but it was fun and I've never felt as if you have excluded me.

:hi::toast:

[Misunderestimator]

68. Have we?

Best not to remind me then :D... :hi:

[matcom]

72. i'm too good to post in this thread

but i will just so you can swoon over my above average typing skills

:loveya:

[Misunderestimator]

75. Indeed, they are above average...

You might want to check out the "Shift" key though. :loveya:

[redqueen]

73. What a sweet post.

:)

You're still a freak, though. :P

[Misunderestimator]

74. LOL

:rofl:

:hi:

[NV Whino]

78. Well said.

:toast:

[northzax]

80. what a nice post

would you have accepted an apology from all the people who made you feel excluded? would that have made you feel included and accepted, a simple apology, followed by a "I didn't know what I was doing"? Certainly there is no equating the Lounge to high school (first off, it's very difficult to give swirlies over the internet...) your apology is heartfelt, no doubt, and welcome, but behaviour modification is the key. And I know we have battled on several occasions, so please don't take this as personal criticism of YOU in particular, but criticism of a behaviour engaged in by many people, including myself, human nature if you will.

just a question, you haven't been here long enough to see it, but this is a cyclical thing that happens over time, and it's natural, people want to talk to their friends. The more time people spend here, the more they develop relationships beyond the visible text of this board. And that spills over into their open interactions with others. Just as a test, go back and read your lounge posts for the past week (I'd do the week before this all blew up for fairness) and see how many involved inside jokes, saying publically how much you like someone, or mentioning a reference to another thread, or a past event that others would not understand? All that is completely innocent, but it is cliqueish behaviour, having private conversations in public, and making references to 'insider' information. It's something we all need to be careful of, especially those who spend large amounts of time in the Lounge and meet other DUers out of the internet space.

To your (this is you, misunderestimator) eternal credit, you are apologetic and recognize that cliquish behaviour, however unintentional, has occured and continues to occur in the Lounge. Of course it does, there is no way to really prevent it, but knowing that it happens and caring enough to try to remain open is the key to alleviating it. Compare that behaviour with others', who respond to the complaints of many with disdain and ridicule. There are those who are immediately defensive, and put the blame on the accuser, saying that they are the odd man (or woman) out, simply reinforces the belief among those feeling left out that they are outsiders. So thank you for not taking that position.

Think back to yourself in middle school, and them imagine you are one of the 'in-crowd' not meaning to be mean or exclusionary, in fact many of them would be shocked to be accused of it (not all of them, some are just plain assholes, but most simply go along to get along) They would probably say that you 'chose' not to be one of them, that that you are the one who wouldn't deal with them. the problem is you not them. which is bullshit, but the way insiders tend to think. Except for those who remember the outside and try to change things.

For the record, in the 4+ years I have been a DU member, I have only once, to my recollection and knowledge, met another member physically, and that was simply crossing paths in Seville and noting a DU T-shirt. I simply don't care to, I've skipped all the DC meetups, and I couldn't pick William Rivers Pitt out of a lineup. I come here because it amuses me, and I believe in the cause. But it's not life itself. For some people DU has become a second home, (or god forbid a first home) the place they feel comfortable and safe, which is fabulous, such a place should exist for every human being, but it should not exist at the risk of being exclusionary to others. And that is a balancing act that it very hard to accomplish.

[Misunderestimator]

81. Thanks, northzax...

However I think you misinterpreted my intent. My posts over the past few weeks in the lounge would reflect the fact that I do know people here. Is that cliquesh? I don't think so. If I go to a party and recognize some of the people, I naturally go up to them to say hello. If I enjoy someone's posts and have developed a relationship with them here online, the lounge seems the appropriate place to communicate.

Yes, I recognize that outsiders and newbies can be intimidated by walking into a party where they know no one. But there are plenty of people, myself included, who go out of their way to welcome new people.

On the other hand, there have been a number of bannings of trolls who have been here a long time, and many daily ones of people who come here to distract us for whatever reason. That has likely shaken a lot of trust towards people who are not known. If someone comes in and starts flamewars right away, or has exhibited this behavior over and over again, it makes a lot of sense for people to have some suspicion and not be quite so welcoming.

My intention in this thread was to share the fact that I can emphathize with people who feel they are on the outside looking in. And that I welcome them to this community, being myself an outsider. I am not planning on changing my behavior which I think is pretty consistent and fair.

One note in response to the analogy of me in middle school. The lounge is not middle school. Technically, it was my fault that I was an outsider then... but I was a child without the tools to understand how not to be an outsider. I learned those tools when I became an adult. I think if people approach the Lounge as the light-hearted place it should be, we'd all be better off.

[tigereye]

82. nice post Mis

I think most folks here are kind and good and fairly open-minded. It is a good place to meet kindred spirits. I think if people wait for a while, and continue to post, they will find others who think as they do and that they enjoy communicating with. And I really do not think most folks have any intent to exclude others.

As an odd nerdy kid ( I think many of us felt outside the mainstream at times) who somehow always managed to find others that I could communicate with, I respect what you have said.

[Lilith Velkor]

83. I just wept like a child.

It's partly lack of sleep so please don't feel bad.

Also, I'm terribly lonely. I almost was part of a group recently, but it all went to shit. There always seems to be some asshole who just has to turn everything into the Jerry Springer show. I'm sure you know the deal.

That being said, I've never felt excluded here. I've lurked since the beginning but have only recently started posting. Got a few replies, been in a few argyments even.

I really appreciate the variety of POVs here. Ya get everything from conservative Dems to me, an anarcho-communist. I've learned a lot here.

Take care, and pleased to make your accquaintance. :hi:

[Misunderestimator]

84. Nice to make your acquaintance too!

:hi:

I've met some wonderful people here, and am definitely chattier here than I ever am in real life. The thoughts are always there, but something holds them back... unless it's political, then all bets are off :)

Keep posting, and thanks for the post!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

87. Nice post, darlin'

Read the entire thread... :thumbsup:

[Misunderestimator]

90. Thanks hon.

:)

[jswordy]

88. Every stinkin' Web forum I have EVER been on comes to...

...a place where there are allegations of cliques, etc. Too many people get myopic looking at the puter screen and do not let enough "real life" into their lives.

And every one who bitches says, "there is a clique and I am not a part of it cuz I have never been in a clique."


LOL. I have moderator experience elsewhere. This is deja vu. Happens everywhere.

Like Skinner said, go outside. Take a walk. Talk to some actual humans, face to face! A shocking concept, eh? But it does change yer perspective about the emotional weight you give to typed words in an electronic box. I know. I have been in both places. Getting out into real life is a lot of fun, and defuses perceptions from the puter by diminishng their overall importance. Eventually, you find that you don't have to hang on every word typed here. Try it.

[Misunderestimator]

89. I take it that post was to the general public...

and not directly towards me. That said, Yes, real life CAN be a lot of fun. And it's also worth considering that some people cannot, for whatever reasons (disability, or geographic isolation, for example), interact regularly with others in real life. It's nice to have a forum like this where real relationships can and are formed.

All about perspective.

:hi:

(On edit... did you just describe my OP as bitching? I think you did. How odd.)

[DoveTurnedHawk]

92. Sniff!

You are so exclusionary. I feel so left out. You never let me play in your reindeer games. You never kissed me, you meanie. I want more friends. I want to be loved. I want to be held. I want to be popular. I want a million dollars.

So when are we getting drinks again? ;-)

DTH

[Misunderestimator]

94. Wait, I didn't kiss you!?!

But I had enough to drink.... Surely I kissed you :silly:

We should get drinks VERY soon!!