What if I told you women that if....

[coloradodem2005]

...I had a girlfriend, I would make her the happiest woman on earth or die trying. What would you think? Just curious.

[Orangepeel]

1. honestly, it's a little creepy.

"I would do everything I could to make her the happiest woman on earth" would be romantic, IMO. The "die" part freaks me out a little.

[ChoralScholar]

8. it depends on which woman you're talking about

the 'die' part may just be the part of the puzzle that makes the woman happy....

I've got an awful lot of life insurance...

(don't flame me, I'm just teasing...)

[ogradda]

49. I agree take the dying part out.

that's a bit startling. A nice woman won't want you to actually die trying anyway. I'm a woman, and I wouldn't like it.

[jilln]

2. Honestly...

if I were the potential girlfriend in question, it would make me worry that you would smother me. How sad is that...

[coloradodem2005]

4. ok. Noted for future reference.

Though if backing off would make a woman happier, then I would back off and furthermore I would tread softly to begin with.

[FreedomAngel82]

27. With me

I like a guy to shower me but also like my time alone. Sometimes I just get annoyed with people no matter who it is.

[maddiejoan]

77. I just like a guy to shower.

period.

[benny05]

3. I don't know

sorry, but we all different. :-)

[Bread and Circus]

5. I am not a girl but here's my advice. Just be a real person w/ her.

Don't "try to make her" anything. Just be yourself, really. As far as I can tell, you gotta be real. Girls/women are not a fantasy. We are all just "real people" and if it's meant to be, it's meant to be.

[deutsey]

125. Best advice possible

[Radical Activist]

6. Yeah, its funny how a lot of women won't stay with guys

who treat them extremely well or they'll lose respect for him and treat him like shit in return. Its fucking stupid, but what can you do. :shrug:

[Bok_Tukalo]

7. Treating a woman with dignity and respect is the best way to gain a friend

And that's all I'll say about that.

[progmom]

9. i'm best friends with my husband

and based on that, i think we will be together for a very long time. gets you through a lot of tough crap.

[Bok_Tukalo]

11. Your best friend should be your spouse, I firmly believe that.

He was talking about a girlfriend.

[Radical Activist]

13. Yeah, exactly.

"Just" friends. :)

[JVS]

58. We missed you at the Champaign-Urbana DU meet-up

maybe next time, eh!

[Radical Activist]

178. Yeah, I felt bad missing that

after pushing for it to happen, but work got in the way.
I'll make the next one.

[Bouncy Ball]

20. A friend.

And a wife, in my husband's case. Again, not all of us cared for the bad guy. In fact, I actively avoided that jerk.

[Bok_Tukalo]

28. Of course you do. You are married.

<ope>

[Bouncy Ball]

29. No, I mean I actively avoided him even when I was dating.

I went out on a few first dates with the "bad guy." They never got to a second date, because I was not impressed with rebels with no causes or assholeish behavior.

[Bok_Tukalo]

32. You don't have to be an asshole

But you don't have to be a doormat either.

Treating a woman with dignity and respect means that she deserves it and reciprocates.

[Bouncy Ball]

34. I don't think we disagree here.

:shrug:

I just thought you were saying women go for the "bad guy" and I was saying not all women do.

[Left Is Write]

30. It got my husband a wife.

Were there guys who treated me with dignity and respect before him who wound up with "just" a friend? Sure. There were also jerks who treated me like shit.

But I married a man who treated me with dignity and respect.

[Bok_Tukalo]

31. Of course

And if you are looking for a wife, finding a woman that can deal with you treating her with dignity and respect takes time.

But I thought we were talking about finding a girlfriend.

[Left Is Write]

40. He wasn't looking for a wife.

But he found one anyway.

[Bok_Tukalo]

41. I get the feeling that my cavalier attitude is not welcome in this

Which is good. I am in no position to give advice on how to interact with the opposite sex. So far, mine have all ended in disaster.

[Left Is Write]

42. No, your opinion is as worthy as anyone else's.

But women who DO value and look for honest, kind, and respectful men are interested in debunking the myth that all women love a jerk.

[Bok_Tukalo]

43. I certainly hope so

My experience has been that they simply don't know how to deal with honesty, kindness, and respect.

And I don't mean the "just friends" nonsense. I mean when in a solidified relationship being given it and not knowing how to deal with it.

[progmom]

68. all i can say to that ...

...is that maybe, just like some women are attracted to jerks, maybe you've been attracted to women who aren't as appreciative of good guys as they could be. :shrug:

[Bok_Tukalo]

147. I don't think so.

I am attracted to them all.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

88. Grrrrrr! Not that "women love to be treated like shit" meme again!

Once again, guys, we don't like to be treated like shit. On the other hand, we don't like men who grovel like abject serfs, either.

Look around, guys, not at who's attracting the pretty but brainless airheads whom the media hold up as your idea., but who's attracting the goodhearted women whom you won't even look at because they don't fit your masturbatory fantasies, the ones who are as attractive as you (no more, no less).

Years ago, I knew a man whom I'll call "M." M was overweight and kind of geeky looking, but he was always surrounded by women, who were disappointed to find out about his out-of-town fiancee.

Some of the other men were really puzzled as to why this seemingly unattractive man seemed to be surrounded by women all the time. I tried to explain: M gave off an air of approachability and kindness, he was a good conversationalist, and he truly considered women his equal.

I currently know another man who is odd-looking and more than a little eccentric, but he, too, has no trouble attracting women, and they are disappointed to find out about his commuter marriage. Again, he is approachable, kind-hearted, a good conversationalist, and truly treats women as equal.

I'll tell you what doesn't work: chasing after a woman just because she looks like some fantasy you've always had, hanging around like a whipped puppy, rehearsing clever "lines" that you think will magically make any woman swoon into your arms (if it doesn't occur to you on the spot in response to a specific situation, it's not a good line), doing anything that makes you seem desperate.

[crispini]

107. Amen, Lydia Leftcoast!

"Nice" is one thing. "Desperate" is completely, totally different.

[Southsideirish]

18. Oh, I don't know ..my husband treats me very well and I just love him

to pieces. Drives me to work, picks me up, cooks, is my "running buddy",movie going companion, best friend, etc.
It took a long time to find him (late 30's) but I knew I would never get married if it wasn't going to be "the one." Glad I waited.

[Kire]

44. I know why that is.

because you're a hypocrite if you don't think you're treating her like shit yourself

demanding appreciation for your good deeds is not a virtue, I think it's a vice, an insidious one

what do you expect? for her to worship you, is what I think

[Radical Activist]

46. What are you talking about?

It works better if you don't talk out of your ass.

[Kire]

50. I'm overthrowing the government

what are YOU talking about?

[Radical Activist]

183. No, I think

you were calling me a hypocrite and accusing me of treating women poorly. I don't think that has much to do with overthrowing the government. Go take your meds.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

91. Ding-ding-ding-ding-ding!

If your approach is, "I'll treat this woman like a goddess so I can get in her pants and ignore the rest," you deserve what you get.

If your approach is, "I treat everyone with dignity and respect, because that's the way I am, only with a little extra wicked glints in the eyes for women I'm attracted to," then you'll attract love, only she won't be what you expect. She'll be better.

[JI7]

98. you got it

i agree with that. it's not exactly respecting a girl if you feel she owes you something for treating her kindly.

[Radical Activist]

182. You don't know a thing about me.

This post is asinine and presumptuous.

[uppityperson]

51. Treat me well but you can't "make me" happy

Please treat me well, treat me great. But don't take the responsibility for my happiness because that is up to me.

Sorry, meant to post to original thread but wanted to respond to RA too. People treat each other like this and it is annoying. Men/women, women/men, women/women, men/men, young/older, older/young, many people do this with others and it is annoying.

[Mutley]

113. I think some women WANT to be treated like shit

I've certianly known a few like that.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

126. GRRRR, see my post above

:grr:

[Mutley]

134. For one thing I am a woman

Two, I said SOME, not ALL. And I HAVE known women who like to be treated like shit. They were treated like shit by their fathers, brothers, etc, and it's the only treatment they know. One of my friends has even admitted this to me. So, I stand by my original statement: SOME women like to be treated like shit.

[lukasahero]

135. That doesn't mean they "like" it

that means it's all they understand.

[Mutley]

140. I'm only speaking from my own personal experience

but I think some, SOME, women do like it. This one friend of mine, she says she gets a rush from a guy acting like an asshole. She said it's like he's so aloof that it's a challenge to keep him around. Then if she dates a guy who's obviously crazy about her, she loses interest.

[Jessica]

10. I would think you're sincere, but

choose your words carefully around the ladies sometimes -- especially in the beginning. Tell her you'll do all you can to make her happy, then do those things. I'd leave out those strong words -- at least until you've established a strong relationship. :)

[Maddy McCall]

12. I'd say that desperation is unappealing.

Just being honest.

[Starlight]

16. I couldn't agree more.

I had a guy tell me once that he was calling me because he thought I might go out with him and he hadn't been able to find any other women who would. :wtf:

[Lorien]

14. If she's very young she might believe you

if she's over thirty then she probably knows damn well that NO ONE can "make" anyone else happy. The statement may be sincere, but it's a tad naive and seems a little obsessive.

[jobycom]

15. Okay, try this instead

"I can't smile unless I see you smile. When I see you sad, I want to rip out my heart, change the world to make you happy. I wish you could see me the way I see you, because I KNOW that would make you the happiest woman in the world."

And if it works, tell me, cause there's someone I want to use it on! :-) (You think I'm teasing, but that's how I feel about her. Sigh.)

[Bouncy Ball]

21. That would make me vomit or laugh depending on my mood.

But don't mind me.

[jobycom]

24. It's okay, I'm sure I'll never try it. LOL

[Bouncy Ball]

26. I meant it when I said don't mind me.

I'm weird.

[jobycom]

35. There are other reasons I can't

Neither of us is really available. Sadly, neither of us is really attached, either. So, they are words I hear in my head, but won't say aloud.

[Bouncy Ball]

36. Awwwww.

That's pretty cool, actually. Too bad you can't say them, or a variation of them.

Hey, write it down!

[skygazer]

142. You may be wierd but not for that

That would certainly make me vomit or laugh too (probably vomit AND laugh which would make me choke to death).

[DS1]

17. reword it

You enjoy making her smile.

Let her figure out the rest.

[JVS]

60. Reword it again "I drive a BMW"

;-)

[Bouncy Ball]

19. I'd say "that's lovely" then shoot you with a tranquilizer gun.

[Redstone]

22. Dude:

You're thinking WAY too much.

And giving WAY too much away.

Adn coming across as WAY too needy, if you don't mind me saying so, and I hope you don't because you have to remember that I'm on your side.

But--listen to me on this, would you--women, in my experience, aren't interested in martyrs, nor grovelers, nor servants. Just give them respect, and (equally important) have some respect for yourself while you're at it.

You gotta lighten up on this stuff and stop crawling.

Just some friendly advice.

Redstone

[Lorien]

33. Very true n/t.

[thecai]

23. Sounds Like My Ex Husband

...who actually made me the most miserable woman on earth, and nearly killed me trying. ;-)
Actually, that's really sweet, coloradodem2005, and I believe you are sincere. I hope you find someone who appreciates you. SOON. (But be patient!) Best wishes!

[tjdee]

25. I'd think you were a)talking out your ass, or b)she's a sex goddess.

And that when you have sex with the object of your desire, and realize that she's just a woman like the rest of us,that you will search out another better looking/younger/more of a sex goddess type woman.

But mostly, I'd be like, yeah, happiest woman on earth until she nags you too much or you get sick of carrying 100% of the weight, both of which will happen.

[RandomKoolzip]

37. Wow.

Dude...the groveling shit never works. Be FUNNY. Make her laugh first. Keep it light until after the third date or so. If you have incompatible senses of humor it WILL NEVER WORK OUT.

Be confident, but not overconfident.

Then, after you've got it to the point where she WANTS to see you again (you know, like after the tenth date or so, or after you've swapped fluids once or twice), THEN, and ONLY THEN, can you even APPROACH using words like "DIE" and "MAKE." (and even then, it's iffy. Save it for the wedding proposal) You're smothering her, man. That's totally unattractive to women.

[Heidi]

38. Make yourself the happiest _man_ on earth or die trying . . .

Your largest responsibility is to yourself, and I say this fully prepared for the flaming that may ensue. Take care of yourself in every way possible, mentally, spiritually and physically. Develop your inner life; make yourself a self-supporting, self-sustaining entity. When you've done this, you'll see yourself differently, and it's very likely that what you look for in a partner will change dramatically.

Before that time, if you find a woman who is willing to fully depend on you for her happiness and wants to be the center of your universe, run the other way as fast as you can because she most likely will be an emotional vampire.

[R. A. Fuqua]

39. As a fellow man--I am going to tell you my

secret to relating to women.

There are 2 parts--if you can do these 2 things successfully I have found that wonderful, exceptional women will be eager to go out with you.

1) LISTEN TO HER WHEN SHE TALKS.
This is the most important thing--and something that most men neglect--or do poorly.

2) Make her laugh.

If you can do those things--you WILL have success with women.

[Kire]

45. a good reason to listen to her:

she might be a lunatic and it'd save you a lot of trouble

[R. A. Fuqua]

47. I suppose so--but to tell you the

truth, I have never known a woman who was a complete lunatic (I know they exist--the Andrea Yates of the world--but I think they are pretty rare). My purpose in listening is not to screen out the losers-(usually that is not hard to do)-it is to make friends with them and make them feel special.

Most women that I know are intelligent and sensitive--and when men listen to them it shows that they CARE. The women in my life always hate it when men don't pay attention to them, when they are insensitive--and when men seem to be thinking about what THEY are going to say next instead of responding to the person they are talking to.

In general, I think a lot of the men who are not successful with women--have these problems. It is just my personal observation. Also, when I treat women a certain way--I have found that I do not have any problems getting dates. I have dated women who are unbelievably beautiful, talented, smart--etc--I have found that if you treat a woman like a human being worthy of your attention--they generally respond well to me.

[Kire]

52. may I introduce you to my mother?

she's a complete lunatic

she doesn't want to be treated like a human being worthy of your attention, she'll settle for nothing less than worship and fuck all if you want to go to the bathroom in the middle of her lunacy

holy terror, she is

[Lorien]

56. You are a wise man, and I have no doubt that you are very

successful with women. As Dale Carnegie always said; there is a basic need among all humans to feel understood, and if one can take a GENUINE interest in one's fellow human beings ((male or female) then one will indeed "win friends (and lovers) and influence people".

Years ago I worked for a film studio, and I met many famous people, from movie stars to presidents. When people ask "which celebrity impressed you the most"? I always answer "John Ritter"-which surprises everyone because I'm not a fan of his work and he wasn't as famous as many who visited-but he truly LISTENED when people spoke. He responded to others in such a way that one really knew that he was interested in what one had to say. When he died, it seemed that there was an overwhelming outpouring of love for him and his family in Hollywood. People couldn't stop talking about how nice a guy he was. It wasn't because he smoozed or showered anyone with complements-it's because he really listened to people and made them feel as if someone truly understood them.

[Heidi]

57. Lorien, don't you think people's response to John Ritter

was so overwhelmingly positive because they sensed that he had done of the "self" work that _enabled_ him to respond to people in a genuinely caring and curious way, free of insecurity and ulterior motives? There's a kind of quiet confidence about people who've taken care of their own mental, spiritual and physical needs, I've found. These people feel "safe" to other people because they're secure in themselves. What do you think?

[Lorien]

61. Maybe

He had a very calming presence about him. He looked directly into your eyes when he spoke, but there was never anything confrontational about it-not in the least. Your right-he didn't project any insecurity,nor did he seem to posses an overblown ego. He was just very present in the moment, and very open to those around him. That's a pretty rare quality these days.

[Vektor]

65. I absolutely adored John Ritter.

One of my very favorite actors of all time. I loved every episode of Three's Company, a silly show, yes, but his character was so likable. The world lost a wonderful man the day he died, I believe.

[Orangepeel]

82. excellent advice, especially #1

#2 can be tricky. Not everybody is naturally funny and sometimes it is just painful when they try to be.

I'd change the wording to 2) laugh together.

[Lorien]

84. Yeah, but if a guy really can make you laugh

that's damn sexy! It's finding someone with a compatable sense of humor that's tricky.

[Orangepeel]

87. Oh, I totally agree

it's just that telling somebody to be funny is a bit like telling them to be tall. Some people can't be funny -- it isn't natural for them and telling them to be funny doesn't work.

But, that doesn't mean they are doomed. If they enjoy life, are open to humor, can laugh at things that are funny, and can have a good time, they don't necessary have to be funny themselves.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

131. Not everyone can be witty, but even two people who aren't witty

can be on the same wavelength mentally.

Being on the same wavelength mentally is one of the sexiest things there is.

[HEyHEY]

48. Dude, get a hobby

I suggest model ships

[JVS]

55. Yar! Model ships are a life-saver!

Better yet, go to sea. Nothing draws in the chicks like the opportunity to have a boyfriend that is gone lots of the time and spends huge amounts of time and money on whores in strange ports. It's money in the fucking bank!

[JVS]

53. They'd probably just find it pathetic.

The proper way to treat a girlfriend is throwing many empty beer cans at her

[leftofthedial]

54. I'm no woman, but the "die trying" part is a little over the top

couldn't you just stop once you strained a muscle or something?

[GirlinContempt]

59. Are you trying

to kill me today?!

:rofl:

Also, agreed.

[leftofthedial]

180. I'm a killer

me and Jerry Lee Lewis

[benny05]

62. that your comment

was very much what was worth the emoticons...a beer...or a few

[SouthoftheBorderPaul]

63. WAY TOO STRONG!

I think that line would freak out a woman although I don't have an alternative available right now. Good luck.

[Vektor]

64. I think the line my husband used was:

"Want to spend the night? I'll make you a bagel in the morning."

It worked.

[JI7]

97. that's cute

i would probably like that because it's getting across what he wants in a cute way without sounding too pushy. and there is a bit of humour to it which allows you to turn him down if you want without feeling weird or bad.

[Vektor]

172. Right, exactly.

And we had already been dating a while before the line "worked." :-)
I'm glad it did. Best. Husband. Ever.

(Although I'm sure THK's hubby is right up there too!)

[SarahB]

66. Try to be a happy man within yourself.

I was with someone like you for a long time. He put every ounce of his happiness into me and it was suffocating. I couldn't discuss real, valid problems without anger because it was always, "Look at all the things I'm doing for you, Sarah." I just had to shut up to not make him feel insecure all the time. I wasn't "allowed" to have much else (not blatantly would he say this, but the fighting and hostility just became too much) other than him in my life.

Take care of yourself and find a way be happy WITH WHO YOU ARE. Then, you will attract into your life a person who simply loves you for that without having to try so hard.

[jpgray]

115. I've got it. You two should date

[SarahB]

168. That wouldn't work.

I'd wear the Hell out of him for a weekend, we'd have nothing else in common, then I'd break his heart. I only have two kinds of men I can conceive of handling at this time: 1. someone who knows it is what it is for something less than serious or 2. another semi-bitter, hopelessly romantic divorced person who understands all my apprehensions that's not so serious either, but could conceivably be later without pressure.

Anyone else (especially someone really emotionally "in need" so to speak), just wouldn't work for me at the moment. Thanks though for the thought. ColoradoDem is a nice looking, smart man. I hope someday he can see that and he'll meet the right woman.

[Dastard Stepchild]

67. Depends on the context...

Depends on the way in which you say it. Depends on when you say it. Little terms and phrases of endearment are not offensive or ridiculous, per se, but they shoud be apprpriately timed. I wouldn't part with that line before the first one or two years of knowing someone. And even then, I'd sprinkle it with a little humor.

[gmoney]

69. Romantically, women are like republicans...

...they only pay attention to those who don't need it, and ignore those who could really use a break.

With women, nothing succeeds like success, and nothing fails like failure.

It's like Republicans falling all over themselves to reward the wealthy, while poor folks are seen as having brought their troubles upon themselves.

Or it's like getting a loan at the bank... only if you can prove you don't really need it is there any chance at all that you'll get it.

Just watch the film "Broadcast News" for a technicolor illustration of this principle. Albert Brooks' character Aaron sums it up well: "Wouldn't it be great if our insecurities made us more attractive? If 'needy' were a turn-on?"

Or sage musician Ben Vaughn:

"Clothes don't make the man
And money can't help a woman understand
That all she has to do is reach out her hand
And she can make a better man out of any man"

Yes, some of us guys are like dogs at the pound... we'd make a great grateful, loyal companion if given a chance, but most women prefer cute puppies or purebred showdogs, so the mutts at the pound hardly have a chance. And if you're eager to please, you might as well resign yourself to the pound gas chamber, because you're doomed.

[fudge stripe cookays]

70. Not necessarily true.

Again with the generalizations. All women are not alike.

I was never attracted to the cocky, really gorgeous guys with women swarming around them. I always went for the individualists: kind of cute but they didn't realize it, dressed in old Goodwill jackets, Chuck Taylor high tops, and alternative band T-shirts back in the 80s (when I was young and REALLY looking). They had very quirky style, and chances are they'd been considered geeks in high school. When we hit college, they realized the same thing I did-- they could finally be themselves, and WERE. Just like I was doing.

I never gave a crap what a guy drove as long as it ran. Didn't care what kind of job he had since I had always determined I would be independent and make my own money.

When reprehensor and I met (through the internet), he had just been laid off. He drove an old piece of crap 85 Topaz (this was 1999). And I didn't care one bit because he treated me like a Queen. He didn't SMOTHER me, and let me be me, but he did prove to me every day that I was the most important thing in his life.

To CD, here is the brutal truth:
The first thing you need to do is get right with yourself. You need to find some psychiatric help to deal with your confidence issues.

No woman with ever look at you seriously or consider you for the long term until you deal with your lack of self esteem and your confidence issues. You have got to know how to take care of yourself before you take on another person in your life.

Women are attracted to confidence. Not COCKINESS, CONFIDENCE. Until you can develop some, and stop needing validation from strangers on an internet board, your chances are going to be very slim.

You might get laid once in awhile from some chick out on a lark, but don't pin your hopes on one night stands. The woman you're looking for won't be looking for you until you mature more emotionally, and are up for the challenge.

Harsh, but there it is.
FSC

[gmoney]

72. You missed my point a bit...

(rant un-deleted)

You said: "No woman with ever look at you seriously or consider you for the long term until you deal with your lack of self esteem and your confidence issues. You have got to know how to take care of yourself before you take on another person in your life."

"Women are attracted to confidence. Not COCKINESS, CONFIDENCE. Until you can develop some, and stop needing validation from strangers on an internet board, your chances are going to be very slim."

Very Republican way to think... it's a lifetime of rejection and other abuses that leads to this lack of confidence, and if some woman would see her way clear to give him the time of day, help him build his confidence, point out his strengths and help minimize his weaknesses and just gently set him straight, he'd blossom.

But you want him to go to a shrink to get all this work done before you'll even consider him. Not everyone can afford a shrink, or can find a decent one, or can even get time off from work to go. Besides, a shrink can't help with so much of what goes in to knowing how to be in a relationship -- that only comes from experience.

This is like hiring a landscaper instead of cultivating your own garden. Throw money at the problem instead of doing the work.

I'm not saying all women want rich cocky guys -- it's just that if a guy needs guidance in this area, he can forget about getting it. So a guy's only hope in this situation is to lie and fake it and not be himself, hoping to "trick" a woman into thinking he's fully realized and self-actualized. This is a recipe for long-term disaster.

[JVS]

90. You are very wise. You should publish a newsletter.

I would gladly subscribe.

[fudge stripe cookays]

92. First of all,

I'll thank you for practically calling me a Republican. Very nice.

I'm being completely honest.

No woman should have to be saddled with a guy's self-esteem. The responsibility is too great, and THAT is how stalking occurs. If a woman shows a man in his mindset some kindness, and then withdraws it, it often results in disaster.

Any woman at this point who shows him any type of kindness will probably be misconstrued, and he'll wind up falling over himself at her, thus pushing her further away. I'm not saying there ISN'T a woman who is capable of this, but a woman should be able to be herself, not a therapist.

His problem is not with women. That is an OFFSHOOT of his problem with self-esteem. And it becomes a vicious circle. He feels bad because he's not attracting women, so he gets depressed. His depression doesn't attract women, so he feels worse.

There are plenty of places with low cost services for those who are having difficulties like CD is. College campuses have facilities like these. I've used them in the past myself. He could ask his parents for help; he could use a referral.

Therapy does not have to cost a bundle. Sometimes all it takes is a mentor to discuss things with.

[gmoney]

100. "Get Confident, Stupid!"

"Hi, I'm Troy McClure. You may remember me from other self-help programs, such as 'Smoke Yourself Thin' and 'Get Confident, Stupid!'..." (The Simpsons)

Well, FSC, I apologize if it appeared I was calling you a Republican. It's just that this whole topic reminds me of the "why don't those homeless guys go get a job at McDonald's?" line of reasoning. It's more complicated than it appears, and it's tough to truly understand it unless you've been driven there yourself by circumstances that may or may not be within your control. Yes, it's possible to turn it around, and there might be a program or two to help, but for every one that makes it back to a "normal" life, there are dozens of more that never do.

Even if he goes to therapy and starts chanting "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone, women like me" -- that won't get a guy too far unless a woman is willing to meet him halfway and cut him some slack. But if he shows any signs of weakness or needing a hand, he's probably a stalker and should be reported to the authorities.

"No woman should have to be saddled with a guy's self-esteem. " -FSC

So, only those who are self-actualized need apply, right? My point exactly. Only the strong get to breed. The shy or uncertain should just go home... social Darwinism. An idea that's rather, uh, I don't know...

[lukasahero]

104. We are all responsible for our own self-esteem

That's why it's called self-esteem.

[fudge stripe cookays]

129. Points are being made right and left....

to your post #69, and you just don't seem to get it.

Women are not thinking like Republicans. We're thinking in terms of our own dreams and happiness. That's not selfish, it's self preservation.

I daresay that we have ALL gone through periods of self-doubt and feeling worthless or depressed about ourselves and out lives where the opposite (or in Misunderestimator's case..same) sex is concerned.

It's part of life. No one feels confident and great all the time. I myself did not have my first date until the summer after I graduated high school. No prom, no nothing.

I didn't have my first boyfriend until I was 19. I did the wrong thing, as Lydia mentioned, by basing all my happiness on that first boyfriend. And like Lydia's friend (B), I attempted suicide when he left me. Every dream and hope I had was wrapped up in that other person. That was my big mistake.

And I was a shell for at least 5 years after that. It was very hard to develop confidence again. But I did it. I was never a social butterfly anyway. But I just learned to discover who I was, and what I enjoyed, and share it with others who felt the same way, so we had things in common, and something to talk about and have fun over. And yes, I went through serious therapy.

And I thought the same thing a lot of times: "All I need is to have a guy date me and treat me nice and I'll be fine. I'll be better after that."

But I look back now and see what a mess I was, and I wouldn't have saddled anyone with that. I was a basket case. I had to work through my own problems before I could ask anyone to share that load.

But something amazing happened during those post breakup 5 years. I finally discovered who I was, not based on another person, their views or values or anything else. Only then did I begin to attract people based on ME, the real Fudge.

I'm sorry if you've been hurt, but you're not the only one. I finally married at 32, after dating a lot of damaged guys. Some of them I have wonderful memories of; some of them I just have memories of. But after the last one, I somehow got lucky.

My point is-- women cannot fix what is wrong with you or any other man, no matter what you think. You have to do that yourself.

[Lorien]

146. Wow FSC!

I could have written all of that about myself-word for word (even the ages)-except for the marriage part. Got engaged but never married, and I'm not terribly unhappy about that. ;-)

[fudge stripe cookays]

159. Well then,

great minds must think alike, sweetie.

I'm glad we're both here, and that we both got our shit together. Whatever way works for us.

:hi:
FSC

[Lydia Leftcoast]

99. If your self-esteem comes from how other people treat you, it's

not real.

You need to step back, look at yourself honestly, and find something to be proud of. No one else can do this for you.

I once knew a gay couple who had these issues. A was very accomplished in his artistic field, having gone to all the right schools and won all sorts of prizes. B was largely self-taught, had never completed any school after high school, and was largely unknown, although he was able to make a living of sorts in that field.

A left B rather abrumptly, and B attempted suicide.

As part of B's circle of friends, I was one of the people who tried to make sure that he wasn't alone too much after his suicide attempt, and one thing that became clear as we talked was that a large part of his self-esteem had been based on being able to attract the accomplished and well-known A. His family of origin had rejected him for being gay, and if A no longer loved him, he was worth nothing.

I was astonished that he didn't admire himself for having achieved professional-level competence in his field with almost no formal training, and I told him so.

He had literally never thought of it that way. He had always looked for validation from outside. You could see the light going on in his eyes when I assured him that he could not have accomplished what he had accomplished unless he had some strong inborn talent. Even though he hadn't received the public acclaim that A had, his accomplishment was actually more remarkable, but he hadn't realized that.

I think that all of us are like B at times, some more than others. If we have self-esteem and confidence issues, we need to look at ourselves honestly, not only beating ourselves up for our faults but also patting ourselves on the back for our good qualities.

[crispini]

108. Oh, man, every time I took on a guy and tried to

"build his confidence" it turned out to be the BIGGEST mistake ever.

You can't "fix" other people. They can only fix themselves. Until they decide that they want to change, they're not going to change. Until they learn to love themselves, there's not a chance in hell that they can really, truly love someone else and build a healthy relationship.

The GUY needs to cultivate his OWN garden, not get involved with a girl and expect her to do all the work for him.

[lukasahero]

114. Not to mention we get stereotyped for that too

The old "women want to change men" meme. Does "damned if you do, damned if you don't" sound familiar?

[fudge stripe cookays]

117. Well said!

And brevity is the soul of wit, as they say.

:hi: crispini!
FSC

[cassandra uprising]

120. Bingo

This is similar to my 'yikes' (78 I think) post. I've a got a *theory* as to why women in America have such high rates of breast cancer. It might be a result due to how most women waste so much energy breast feeding their lovers. I'm being flippant of course but it's a thought that has passed my mind.

[last_texas_dem]

109. Thank you for your posts on this

I have thought very similarly on this subject before, and it feels like you are putting many of my own thoughts into words.

>>So a guy's only hope in this situation is to lie and fake it and not be himself, hoping to "trick" a woman into thinking he's fully realized and self-actualized.>>

Not being a particularly confident person myself (except about things I felt like I had reason enough to be confident about) and not having much luck with the opposite sex, either, I have been given the same advice about having "confidence." But I keep coming back in my mind to the sentiment you express so very well above...

So many women tell you they want you to be yourself, but at the same time tell you to be "confident." Well, "myself" is a pretty nice guy, I belive, but myself is also modest, not confident. And I think that's a major part of me. If confidence is the main thing most women want that's fine and I can live with it; I just wish these same women would quit saying they want guys to "be themselves", too.

[crispini]

116. Modest is not the opposite of confident.

INSECURE is the opposite of confident.

[last_texas_dem]

121. I guess the problem to me is

I have known far too many people (women and men) who treat modesty as some sort of insecurity.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

133. Then you're going after the wrong women

There are shy women out there, too. Go after them. Some of them may even be pining over you, only you're so dazzled by the glamorous types, you'll never notice.

Don't pursue the same women that the swaggering types are pursuing. The shallow types tend to recognize each other.

[crispini]

156. Well, define "modesty,"

especially in terms of behavior. I define modesty as not tooting your own horn all the time, being willing to listen to what the other person has to say, but also graciously responding to questions about yourself and helping to keep the conversational ball rolling and being interactive and so on.

If you're calling "modesty" the type of behavior which means that when I ask you a question about yourself you give me a two word answer and then look at your shoes and vanish into your shell, well, sorry, but I'm perceiving that as insecurity.

[Heidi]

71. I don't even know where to begin replying.

So I'll just say that I'm sorry your experience with women has shaped your view of us in that way.

[SarahB]

74. Wrong!

Big time!

If you're talking women who are vacuous airheads, perhaps, but those of us with a bit more substance to us are not like this by any stretch of the imagination.

There's someone in my life I care for very much and he has been going through a damned rough time for the last couple of years on a number of levels. I know the amazing man behind the difficulties he's been through. That's why I can't shut him out despite what caring for him it has put me through sometimes.

I'll tell you, it's a lot easier to blame everyone else than have to look at one's self.

[progmom]

75. That is really sad

...and totally off-base.

But I can tell you one thing...most women I know are not attracted to men who have a chip on their shoulder about women.

[lukasahero]

83. Ding ding frickin' ding

It always amazes me here to see the guys who have the worst things to say about women complain that they have no success with women. Yeah, I'm a martyr and would like nothing more than to date a guy who hates me and my entire gender. :sarcasm:

Then again, there are some women who do "like" that kind of thing. They often end up in women's shelters.

[Lorien]

95. Double ding ding!

Anger ain't sexy.

[cassandra uprising]

78. yikes!

There is the cliche that nice guys finish no where and it's a cliche for a reason. But to further generalize that "romantically woman are like repukes" is also repulsive and perpetuates the same bs.

I was always attracted to the underdog. And those poor guys really missed out on a nice relationship because it never worked out. They were so insecure and starved for attention that my genuine interest in them fried their circuits and they would entrench themselves so far in my asshole I couldn't breathe.

To imply that men need women to cut them a brake is really insulting to men.

[gmoney]

86. well, it's taken me almost 42 years to get this bitter...

...and maybe I've made nothing but bad choices along the way. But the first sign of uncertainty or weakness, and I get shut down and tossed aside.

When I was young and naive, my sin was being young and naive. Now I'm old and naive.

The outpouring of compassion and attempts to understand or enlighten that I'm feeling in this thread have been reassuring. (where's that dripping sarcasm widget?)

[Heidi]

89. And people being unkind to you doesn't help, I know.

Every man I've ever been with has shown signs of uncertainty and weakness, as have I. We're human. You're human.

I'm glad you're here to tell the other side of the relationship story, gmoney. :pals:

[gmoney]

93. Well, in person, you might never guess it, either...

But here on the anonymous innernet, I can vent the dark side a bit.

I'm just trying to point out the cruel irony that the surest way NOT to please a woman is to TRY too hard to please her.

[Lorien]

94. Total bullshit

Every man I've dated made less money than I do. Many men would no longer date me when they found out how successful I was! I didn't give a shit that they made $30,000 a year, but my six figure income was a dealbreaker for them.

And do you honestly think that any person-man or woman-is without faults or insecurities? Who are these "cute puppies and purebred showdogs"? Never met one myself.

[gmoney]

105. I'm honored to have achieved TOTAL bullshit

But I'm not talking about money, except as a metaphor...

It's the old paradox of "nobody will give me a job because I have no experience, but I can't get experience until someone gives me a job" problem, except substitute "relationship" for job. (I know you can't "give" someone a relationship, but you know what I'm getting at.)

The "cute puppies and purebred showdogs" are not folks without faults or insecurities, but rather those that have some appeal that compensates/obscures the faults, at least initially. Either they're good-looking, or charming, or intelligent, or passionate, or adventurous, or wealthy, or socially prominent, or career-accomplished, or talented, or whatever your particular weakness enjoys. Again, I defer to the wisdom of "Broadcast News":

Jane: I have passed some line some place. I am beginning to repel people I am trying to seduce.
Aaron: He must been great looking, right?
Jane: Why do you say that?
Aaron: Because nobody invites a bad looking idiot to their bedroom.

[Lorien]

111. Plenty of ugly idiots get beautiful women into their bedrooms

look at all the comedians with girlfriends who look like supermodels. Look at your average sitcom; the guy is an unattractive idiot, and his wife is usually smart and beautiful. I've seen dozens of examples in real life too. When someones asks their wives why they were attracted to these men, they usually get a response like "he makes me laugh" "he's got a great attitude about life" "He has a good heart and he's a wonderful husband and father" etc.

People want to be around others who posses qualities that they themselves want to possess (the old "you complete me" cliche). If a person is insecure or angry, then their potential partner is going to have to find other qualities about them to compensate for those two big negatives.Who wants to add "insecure and angry" to their own personality? If the woman is very secure and basically happy already, then they might have a shared mutual interest that attracts her, or he might be at the very least funny, or maybe passionate about a cause. The problem with those who are very insecure is that they are often very inwardly focused. Nobody-either man or woman-wants someone who doesn't really listen to them or try to understand them because they are so wrapped up in their own self examination.

[gmoney]

130. Sitcoms as a basis for reality?

look at all the comedians with girlfriends who look like supermodels.

Well, I'd argue that you can't be a complete idiot and make a living as a comedian. Even Larry the Cable Guy, while a redneck bonehead, is fairly clever, even though his appeal is probably mainly to idiots. Also, studies show that if you're famous enough or rich enough, you can date a fashion model, many of whom are loaded with their own issues. But we're not here to discuss celebrities, are we?

Look at your average sitcom; the guy is an unattractive idiot, and his wife is usually smart and beautiful.

Again, nowhere NEAR reality. This is just a comic formula as old as the sitcom itself. And the guy is usually the show's producer who gets to cast the hot wife. Besides, if you reversed the formula, it would be seen as misogynistic. To me, that's part of the great appeal of Seinfeld, is that they let Elaine be as conniving and dopey as the guys on the show.

I've seen dozens of examples in real life too. When someones asks their wives why they were attracted to these men, they usually get a response like "he makes me laugh" "he's got a great attitude about life" "He has a good heart and he's a wonderful husband and father" etc.

You keep making it about looks, and it's not, I'll admit that. Many women can see past a guys looks, but what they can't get past seems to be a lack of confidence and self-assurance. So, if you're a guy who doesn't have these strengths, AND you're not a successful stand-up comic, AND you don't have your own sitcom, you're out of luck.

People want to be around others who posses qualities that they themselves want to possess (the old "you complete me" cliche).

Wow... talk about co-dependent! :)

The problem with those who are very insecure is that they are often very inwardly focused. Nobody-either man or woman-wants someone who doesn't really listen to them or try to understand them because they are so wrapped up in their own self examination.

But I thought you wanted us to figure out what was wrong so we could fix it. If he's too wrapped up in himself, he's dysfunctional. If he's too wrapped up in YOU, he's a stalker.

Again, what I'm saying is, that to those that haven't had to try to attract romantic interest, not being able to do so just seems alien, like the "get a job" attitude that "some people" have to the poor.

[Lorien]

143. I never said that sitcoms are a basis for reality

sitcoms reflect what I've seen for myself IN reality. And no-I never made it "about looks". The guys I've known who were married to smart, beautiful women weren't great looking, were not smart, were often NOT successful, and often no one else saw what she saw in him; a decent soul who really cares about those around him.

And as for the rest of it? Well, is not a big surprise that you're single. Co-dependent? Hardly-you missed that one completely.Your stereotyping of the opposite sex has really hindered your success with the opposite sex.YOU are responsible for that success. It's not a handicap that you are stuck with for life unless your views on the subject continue to be what they are today.

[Misunderestimator]

101. Wow! What a very nice slap in the face!

Right.... I ignore anyone who needs anything... because I'm a WOMAN! It's all resolved now... I had always wondered why I was devoid of compassion and entirely superficial. Thanks for clearing that up!


:sarcasm:

[gmoney]

102. Never said that...

I'm sure you're a highly compassionate person and do many things to help many people.

But romantically, don't you have different standards?

[Misunderestimator]

103. As a matter of fact, I do not have different standards romantically.

My standards are consistent for all people. It's insulting for you to generalize that all women change their standards to pursue a man (or anyone) who they would not want as a friend (assuming that they would not change their standards for friends).

Every good relationship I know consists of two people who are fundamentally friends and share the same principals and ethics.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

106. Thank you, Misunderestimator

Maybe it's just because I'm older, but I've found that it's simply not worth dating anyone I don't respect and whose values I don't share.

[MissMillie]

162. We take care of everybody and everything

and now we're supposed to be responsible for men's self-esteem?

I don't want a man that needy. I have my own self-esteem to take care of.

And you know what, I've made more bad choices when it comes to men than I can count. But that doesn't make me a person that is not worth loving.

My self-esteem doesn't come from how a prospective romantic interest may feel about me. It comes from the fact that I am a kind, caring, compassionate person. I am a good mother, a good friend, a good employee. I am proud of what I have accomplished and look forward to accomplishing more.

And if some guy can't see that, it is not a bad reflection on ME.

[gmoney]

164. no, you're not supposed to be responsible for men's self-esteem

But if you meet a guy whose self-esteem is a little shaky and could use some self-confidence, consider giving him a chance and maybe offer some guidance when he says something stoopid, like I've been doing all day. Don't just label him a prospective stalker and hose him down with the pepper spray.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

128. Oh man - wow

how terrible

[gmoney]

136. OK. "Uncle" I cry...

As usual, I am completely wrong, and my views are without merit, and are deeply fucked-up and assholic. I don't even have the excuse of being drunk.

I am unworthy to share the planet, or even tread on my little corner, with creatures of divine wisdom or even normal intelligence or even the sense God gave a carpenter ant.

The torrents of ire and dismay I've unleashed are fully deserved and wholly justified. I'm lower than Yahoo message board trolls...

I admit it. There.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

139. With an attitude like that, I'm not surprised

that you have trouble getting dates.

I have a sense that if you were to approach me, I'd feel the hostility and self-pity radiating from you at a hundred yards.

[gmoney]

144. Talk about "damned if you do, damned if you don't..."

So, I should go ahead and get the "Biohazard" symbol tattooed on my forehead?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

145. I rest my case.

:-)

[JVS]

148. There is no winning dude

It's like you said before. Nothing succeeds like success and nothing fails like failure. You have a complaint, which means you aren't happy. You must be unhappy because you are in some way inadequate. So the very fact that you complain is used as ammunition to attack you.

[gmoney]

149. Kick me long enough and I'll say whatever you want me to say...

I guess you all showed me. "We love everyone, and we'll kick down anyone who says otherwise."

I guess I'm an asshole, just not the RIGHT kind of asshole to appeal to y'all.

[JVS]

152. Yeah, but it isn't enough to say it. You have to believe it and go...

forth and spread it.

[Misunderestimator]

154. I love it when people attack someone else, then turn it around to 'oh poor

me' everyone always attacks me. :eyes: You attacked women. Not even "some" women, but all women. People object to your insults so you now pretend to be the victim. Good luck with that personality.

[gmoney]

155. Attacked women?

I was basically agreeing with everyone who was piling on the original poster. "Don't tell her you'll die trying" because most women see anything resembling needyness as a disqualifier.

I think it sucks that people want this guy to get years of therapy when a little individual validation would probably do wonders for him. Not basing his entire personality and self-worth on the validation of another, but just getting enough of a spark to light his own fire.

Millions of women swooned over Leo DiCaprio's self-sacrifice in "Titanic" but when one guy considers saying it in real life, he's a creepy psycho stalker.

My original post may have had a bit too broad of a brushstroke to it, but that if you're a "nice guy" who has any whiff of desperation or neediness, you'll never get anywhere with most women.

I wasn't always like this. It's taken years of being treated like dirt by "the wrong women" for me to get this way. And maybe I'm just too slow at learning my lessons, but this thread hasn't been very constructive.

[Misunderestimator]

157. I can't argue with someone who can't admit what they said...

and take responsibility for it.

[gmoney]

163. "If you don't know what you said..."

"If you don't know what you said, I'M certainly not going to tell you."

A classic.

[Misunderestimator]

165. Sometimes that applies, so in this case I'll humor you...

This is what you said:

"Romantically, women are like republicans...

...they only pay attention to those who don't need it, and ignore those who could really use a break.

With women, nothing succeeds like success, and nothing fails like failure.

It's like Republicans falling all over themselves to reward the wealthy, while poor folks are seen as having brought their troubles upon themselves.


Classic.

[gmoney]

170. Succcess and Failure in romantic terms...not financial.

Not trying to say that all women want wealthy, financially successful partners... but I do stand by that most (I'll concede not all) do strongly, heavily prefer those who have dated successfully over those who have either dated unsuccessfully, or not dated much at all.

Again, if the person dates successfully and it's known, he/she generally has no trouble finding all the dates they want. Those who haven't dated successfully must have done something to scare away all the other women, or have some deep character flaw, or be a psycho stalker, so by all means run away.

Rapper Usher Raymond has slept with thousands of women who throw themselves at him. Why? Because he's such a great lover? Why is he such a great lover? Well, he's slept with thousands of women! Despite the tautology, most women would sleep with Usher before giving some regular insecure guy a chance, even though the regular guy would devote himself to her happiness, while Usher won't even remember the woman's name the next day.

You'll say the Usher women are atypical bimbos, not "real women" -- granted. It's an exaggerated example to illustrate a real-world problem that happens on a much smaller scale in offices, schools, neighborhoods, bars, etc. every day of the week, and leaves lots of men (and women) out in the cold.

Maybe I should have said "PEOPLE are like Republicans when it comes to relationships", but I think the "Rocky/Adrian" scenario is probably a lot more common than the inverse... the closest example I can think of is Julia Roberts/Lyle Lovett, but he's wildly talented and successful and famous.

[Misunderestimator]

171. It doesn't MATTER what you are trying to say, it matters what you say.

And it matters that you negatively generalize about women in any manner, whether it's how we choose a mate or how we choose a job.

The cause of successfully and nonsuccessully dating can only be traced back to the person dating. That's you. Why would you blame your lack of success in dating (which I guess is what you are saying) on the women you date?

[fudge stripe cookays]

161. Hey...

if the shoe fits....

[Shell Beau]

73. That you were my husband?

Seriously, boyfriends should do that anyway!

[MissMillie]

76. I'd say you were nuts

the person you should be with is a person who is happiest just being with you for the person that you are... not for anything you try to be or do.

[Wapsie B]

79. It does sound needy.

Issues of self-esteem and self-confidence need to be resolved. I should know that as well as anyone. But having said that I also realize that the world just plain sucks at giving a break to a person who needs it most. You'd think that to give a person a confidence boost to help them get into the right frame of mind someone or something would give them a break. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. It really is backwards as a previous poster said. But it goes beyond the nice guy bad boy myth.
Those who need a break the most just get kicked in the teeth.

[movie_girl99]

80. IMO it's all about reciprocation

and compromise. As long as she's willing to work as hard to make you happy, it sounds cool.

[cassandra uprising]

81. Ease up there killer

Absolutes and suffocation are no way to approach a relationship if what you want is equality.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

85. If she's not already interested in you, it makes you sound desperate

And it also sounds uncomfortably like those guys in personal ads who "really know how to treat a lady."

[datasuspect]

96. just be who you are

people are easier to get along with if you're laid back somewhat.

and YOU cannot MAKE another person HAPPY.

that's an inside job.

[Senior citizen]

110. "What if I told you people that if...."

...I were a rich man, I would donate tons of money to DU. Would you help me get rich?

The acquisition of material things is not a healthy goal. He who dies with the most toys, still dies. And a life spent pursuing toys instead of trying to make the world a better place is almost a guarantee of regrets. If you do good, you will probably fail but you'll die with no regrets about not having tried.

The acquisition of people is called slavery, and I believe it has been abolished, at least technically. If you devote your energies to attempting to make the world a better place, you may not end up living in a better world, but you'll find yourself surrounded with other decent people.

The capitalist meat market divides females into porn types--blonde, brunette, buxom, young, old, etc. It does the same with males. It is as if people lacked minds and consciousness altogether. If you accept someone as a friend or get into a relationship with them based on their external personna, you'll probably find that the real person underneath is nothing like that at all--and you won't get along with them. That's usually a mistake that young folks make, but older folks aren't immune.

A person who has a cold heart but a sexy personna might be fun until you get the flu or need surgery, when they'll be off partying with someone else instead of taking care of you.

A study of young kids found that when asked what they'd do if they woke up the next day as the opposite sex, found that most young girls said that they'd be baseball players or President, while most young boys said that they'd kill themselves. Imagine being born into a world that treats people like you so badly that half the world thinks it is a fate worse than death. Even the most well-adjusted, apparently happiest females know in their subconscious minds that most males would rather die than be in their situation. What do you think that does to relationships? How the hell do you think you can make someone in a situation like that happy? Sympathy? Comforting? Distractions? How about changing the situation, or at least trying your damndest to do so?

After all, if you do get a girlfriend, you might end up in a relationship that could result in daughters. What kind of a world do you want for them?

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

112. try " I would make you the happiest woman on earth or kill you trying"

:evilgrin:

[SouthoftheBorderPaul]

118. !

:rofl:

[Maddy McCall]

119. Bwahahahahaha!!!

Yeah, it sounds kinda stalkerish either way, doesn't it. :shrug:

[JVS]

122. That's so money!

[cassandra uprising]

123. thank you, thank you, Chavez will be in the Lounge all week

He does weddings, bar mitzvahs and please don't forget to tip your server.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

124. Honey - you better be happy or it's curtains for you!

[cassandra uprising]

132. Oh I'm happy

except for you know who, who is sitting two feet away from me
:banghead:
guess who's got doctors appointments the day before our road trip! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I despise this woman!

[hyphenate]

127. Most of us would know

you're only saying that to get exactly what you want out of us. ;)

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

137. Oh no you didn't!!

:D

[Lydia Leftcoast]

138. So whaddaya really want, Coloradodem2005?

Are you looking for a real relationship or a one-night stand?

If you're looking for a real relationship, cut out all bullshit, be a good listener, and don't be too wrapped up in yourself. If you don't genuinely LIKE the person instead of just LUSTING AFTER them, your relationship will soon degenerate into one of those horrible dramas where the partners bicker all the time.

I'm not the world's most self-confident person, but I've found that when I'm with the right person, things click naturally. It's a regular Vulcan mind meld.

If I'm not with the right person, if it's just lust with no emotional attachment, no communication occurs.

[skygazer]

141. That you were full of shit

Sorry, but that simply reeks of a "line". Besides, every guy and his brother tell women that they'll make them the happiest woman on earth - it's a stupid statement. Grandiose. Not real.

Contrary to the movies, most women really want something real and tangible, not fantasy. What I want to hear from a man is that he'll be there for me, he'll respect me, he'll love me. I want security and stability, not overblown declarations. What the hell good would it do a woman for you to die trying to make her the happiest woman on earth? How about just being a good man for her and staying alive? That would be far superior.

[datasuspect]

151. i like the cut of your jib

that's what i was thinking

[Redstone]

153. Skygazer, you win the prize for saying:

"What the hell good would it do a woman for you to die trying to make her the happiest woman on earth? How about just being a good man for her and staying alive?"

Well said, indeed. Hope he listens to you.

And, besides his statement sounding like a "line," it reeks of desperation as well. And I've not known any women who react positively to desperation in a man.

Redstone

[hippiechick]

150. I'd think you're really pussy whipped at the moment.

This too, shall pass. ;)

[grace0418]

158. No one can make someone else be happy. You can only make

yourself happy. That doesn't mean you should be a selfish asshole (because eventually being a selfish asshole will set off a chain of events that will in turn assure your unhappiness). Just be good to her, treat her with respect, listen to her, make her laugh, care about her feelings and expect the same from her.

[northzax]

160. just a hypothetical

but what if the thing that would make the the happiest person in the world is you dying? how can you die trying to die? and if you die, while trying to die then you fail, by your own definition. explain your completely illogical statement.

thank you.

[enigmatic]

166. I'm really reluctant to wade into this...

but what the hell...

My advice to you is to forget every post here with "advice".

Seriously.

The problems w/ threads like this is that everybody comes in w/ varying stages of bitterness towards the sex they are attracted to, and it can't help color their responses, especially when they think they see their "pet peeves" in other posts/posters. So it pretty much negates anything they say, and in the end, is about as worthless as it gets regarding advice.

I was a loner for most of my life; now I have a wife/soulmate who I love deeply and want to grow old with and can't ever imagine living without. It took a long time for us to find each other, but I wouldn't trade the years before her for anything, no matter how screwed up (or not, which was often the case)they were.

It's part of the process of evolving as a human being, and everybody goes through it. Embrace it and learn from it, don't deny it and curse it.

Be yourself in everything you do, and most importantly, stay as far away from all the self-help garbage books out there as you possibly can; they are for the most part worthless. The most important lesson I ever learned about relationships was from an old parable that went something like this:

An older and younger man were sipping tea when the younger man asked the older man why he never married. The older man said,

"When I was younger, I met a number of women, but not the perfect one; one was beautiful but unkind, another was generous but cold. Then I finally found the perfect woman."

The younger man asked, "What happened? Why didn't you marry her?"

The older man took a sip of his tea and looked away reflectively and said, "It seems she was looking for the perfect man.."

That's pretty much it right there.

You're not perfect; nobody is. And nobody should expect perfection from the ones they are attracted to, or they are going to end up being miserable.

I'm a firm believer that everybody has their soulmate; if I can find mine, anyone can. The key is not that she/he is perfect, but that she/he is perfect for you. And you for them.

Forget the navel-gazing and wailing; it's not worth it. Live your life the best you can and I promise you, you'll find her. Patience, my friend.

Good luck.

Edit: Mr. Typo strikes again!

[lukasahero]

167. Best post of this entire thread - Read it DC please!

PS - my husband was 55 before he was married for the first time - to me. And I absolutely adore him. It happens even to the nicest guys. ;)

[enigmatic]

169. Thanks

And yes, it does:)

[Redstone]

173. Self-delete.

Pointless statement dutifully retracted before it wasted any bandwidth.

Redstone

[enigmatic]

174. I think the thing is....

That everyone is coloring their own experiences w/ this and transposing it on their advice; it can't be helped, I guess.

When it comes to this topic there's alot more bad advice than good advice because of the experiences of those giving advice are extreme cases of the spectrum. There's alot of bitter people of both sexes out there who are more than willing to turn threads like this into a bash session under the guise of "advice".

Your posts were cool; I've got no problems w/ w/ you wrote. I think in this case he needs to turn off his mind regarding this and throw out everything and start over, so to speak.

I hope this makes sense, I just had a couple of malt liquors..

[Redstone]

177. I agree with you; it was just that my post did not contribute

anything to the discussion, and I hate to sound like I'm posting just to hear myself type.

And yes, there was bitterness aplenty; I consider myself fortunate that I don't have any of that, even though I've known a woman or two who was less than ideal. Can't dwell on the bad experiences, though; all that does is eat your life.

A couple of malt liquors? I'll see that, and raise you several vodkas and three Vicodins. One of those nights...

Redstone

[enigmatic]

179. You got it, my friend

I even have some killer moonshine to chase it with!

[Lorien]

175. So all of us offered worthless advice

that should be disregarded-yet you've just offered advice yourself. I've always thought that there was more than one person on DU who had something worthwhile to say...

[enigmatic]

176. There is

But when it comes to relationship advice, it's more than often colored by the bad experiences of the people giving the advice, so it really doesn't help except to encourage fear and loathing of the sexes IMO. And the "advice" I gave specifically didn't do that.

Hey, if you're offended, I apologize.

[dxstone]

181. I'd say you sound LONELY, dude...

And that's tough; we all go thru it at one time or another, questioning ourselves... no big deal if you ask me, sounds like totally NORMAL human feelings n' behaviour...
What's kinda sad, though, is how many women on this post reacted not with compassion but rather with this cold, clinical (and in some cases) quite extreme judgement...
You came to the wrong castle tonight, Mr. Harker; not a lot of empathy in this room...
Look, ladies, before you pile on ME now... I'm a humorist, so I'm just joking! There! I said it! Ha!
This is my one superpower... but because of it, I can get away with anything...
Now then: Questioning this guy's mental health for the sin of feeling BLUE seems kinda ludicrous, if not downright cruel...
He's sad, tonight, y'know?... feelin' totally alone in the world...
Least, that's what I'm hearing...and does this really require medication?
Maybe he gets like that once in a while... big freakin' deal...
And too, when did being a hopeless romantic become this horrifying social disease?
Dude, THEY don't know you and I don't know you... but you sound totally sane to ME... you sound like a person of great passion, actually, and a regular guy (I hope you DON'T creep in the night and sleep in a phone booth!)... but I don't think you do, and if I were you I'd listen to enigmatic--just forget everything you read tonight (or use it as research to write a film sequel to Fight Club, that's what I'M gonna do)...
Anyway, tomorrow's another day, huh?
And REMEMBER, women are like buses; there's always another one comin' along any minute now...
D
(edited for spleling error)