While I enjoyed Star Wars Episode 3...

[NewJeffCT]

I still think that I like all 3 of the originals better than Revenge of the Sith... yes, that includes Return of the Jedi.

I think Episodes 1-3 were missing the bad boy panache of Han Solo (and Lando from 4-5) and that Darth Vader was a much better villain than Darth Maul in Ep 1 or Sarumen/Darth Sidious (?) in Ep 2.


Also, Ep 6 had Leia in a metal bikini, so that is better than anything Amidala wore... and Leia was a tough character, too, and had chemistry with Harrison Ford.

[Kelvin Mace]

1. Amen, brother

Preach the truth to the heathen masses.

[nytemare]

2. I mostly agree

I thought the plot was clever as far as the storyline around Palpatine.

Episodes 1&2 very much dissapointed me. I had the feeling that I was only watching to see how we got to Episode 4, I didn't care about the characters, or hate the bad guys. The character of Darth Maul was not developed enough, and neither was Dooku's. I can understand waiting until 3 to get us to hate Palpatine, but in 1 and 2, it would have been better to have villans that were developed enough to hate. Dooku was sort of too cool to hate.

[NewJeffCT]

3. the plot was interesting

but, sometimes a simple plot & some great characters with great chemistry just works - like Star Wars.

[nytemare]

5. A plot that makes us empathize with the characters is most important to me

The original series all had that. I cared what would happen with the characters. Episode 3 had that, and even added an depth to a character that originally I found to be one sided.

I am somewhat partial to the original trilogy because I was a kid when they came out...after watching episode 3, it is really close in my book, though.

[DerekG]

4. Sorry, but "Sith" is far superior to "Jedi"

Three points to make:

--Carrie Fisher's performance in "Jedi" ranges from serviceable to execrable (check out her scene with Luke on the bridge of the ewok village--"Luke, run far away"). I'll take Padme's "You're breaking my heart" anyday.

--The Palpatine of Episode III leaves a far more indelible impression than the cackling Emperor of Episode VI (who spews out "apprentice" and "destiny" ad nauseum). Need proof to see which is better? Just watch McDiarmid's rendition of the Tragedy of Darth Plaguius (the best acted scene in the entire saga).

--Han Solo's cynicism was sorely needed in the prequel films, but recall that in "Jedi," Han Solo is deprived of the acerbic edge he had in the first two. No Solo is better than Neutered Solo.


Yes, "A New Hope" and "Empire" are still the best; but the Faustian "Sith" wipes the floor with the insipid "Jedi." (Can you actually watch the juvenile Jabba and Ewok digressions without groaning?)

[liberalpragmatist]

6. The Luke-Vader-Palpatine battle in ROTJ saves the movie

But as a whole, ROTJ disappoints. Empire called for a similarly epic, sweeping ending to the saga. One that was hopeful, but bittersweet.

I've thought about an "alternate" Jedi for a while. Here's what I've got: They really should have stuck with much of the original ending which had Luke's sister being someone else, Han dying in a blaze of glory, a planet of wookies instead of ewoks, Leia being crowned Queen of her people at the end, and Luke redeeming Vader but then setting off to train a new Jedi order. They could have had a giant battle throughout space and concentrated over Coruscant, with Luke battling Palpatine and being saved by Vader. Then they could have closed with a 20-minute sequence in which the victorious rebels tearfully celebrate their bittersweet victory. Mon Mothma makes a speech establishing the new republic, while Leia weeps and is informed that she is now the leader of her people. Luke visits the Jedi temple where he talks to Yoda and Obi-Wan's ghosts, who tell him to travel to Anakin's birthplace if he wants to talk to Anakin. Thus, the film closes with Luke traveling to a far, isolated corner of the galaxy and climbing a mountaintop, where he suddenly finds a flesh-and-blood Anakin Skywalker (played by a make-up aged Luke) - this Anakin is a vision conjured by Luke, who gives Luke wisdom about the force and about Luke's mission, all the while revealing that is Luke all along who is revealing this wisdom to himself. Then, the vision fades, we cut to a scene of Leia being tearfully crowned, then we cut back to Luke, walking slowly through the fields, staring at the stars. Then the 'Star Wars'-theme.

[NewJeffCT]

10. some points to make

1) Vader's return to the good side of the Force at the end of RotJ is more convincing than his fall into the dark side in RotS. To me, it just seemed like Anakin flipped a switch in RotS and said, "ok, now I'm bad..." and threw away a good decade or more of Jedi training.

2) RotJ also contained the completion of Luke's rise from bratty teenager to Jedi Knight. Anakin never really seemed to rise above the whiny kid to me, despite Lucas putting him in some horrific situations - killing the sand people & then the Jedi kids.

3) I think RotJ was far weaker than Eps 4 & 5, but still stronger than any of episodes 1-3. It's not a huge victory for RotJ over RotS, but I still like that one better.

[liberalpragmatist]

7. I think it's far better than Jedi

And plotwise and thematically it's actually superior to "A New Hope" - although admittedly that film is better directed, perhaps more fun, and all around probably a better film.

But the way I see it now, Star Wars has three great films - Revenge of the Sith, A New Hope, and of course the greatest of them all Empire Strikes Back - and three okay films that are essential the story and have their moments but as standalone movies are somewhat lacking - The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, and Return of the Jedi.

I actually found upon rewatching TPM and AOTC after seeing ROTS, that to my surprise I liked TPM a lot more than I did and I disliked AOTC a lot more than I had. Somehow TPM seemed more tragic, while AOTC seemed like a bigger letdown b/c you could tell that plot outline was decent and the events were supposed to make you understand Anakin's fall, but the direction and the dialogue in that movie were SOOO bad that I realized I hated much of it more than I hated Jar-Jar. I wanted to gouge my ears listening to the fireplace exchange between Anakin and Padme ("I am haunted by the kiss you should not have given me..."). Frankly, while the dialogue in ROTS wasn't Oscar-worthy, I never once cringed, even with the "You're so beautiful"-exchange, which I thought was clearly meant to be a silly, sarcastic exchange among lovers. Despite some cheesy dialogue, I found the romance in ROTS believable. In AOTC, not at all.

It really is sad to see such a talented actress as Natalie Portman give such a pathetic performance, but Lucas is not an actor's director.

[DerekG]

8. Indeed, the Star Wars saga scored 3-3

Most of the seasoned fans I've spoken to admit to a line of demarcation that exists between III, IV, and V and I, II and VI: the former three are superlative additions to our cultural mythos while the latter group is mere bubble-gum entertainment.

I agree also with your assessment of the first two prequel films: "Phantom," for its myriad flaws, boasted two outstanding set-pieces (the race; the duel) and had a rather nice anchor in Liam Neeson's Qui-Gon Jinn; "Clones" has not fared as well, with its badly-executed courtship and jarring editing.

Personally, I would have made Anakin an orphan, thereby making his life in servitude all the more pitiable; his act of aggression in II would not center around slaying his mother's captors, but slaughtering, en masse, the slave-masters of Tatooine (as foreshadowed in a throwaway line in TPM). This aversion to oppression would be the thread that connects Anakin to the idealistic Padme, and one that would lend bitter irony to the fact that Anakin embraces totalitarianism as a means to bring 'peace' to the galaxy.




BTW, your alternate "Return of the Jedi" synopsis gave me chills.

[liberalpragmatist]

11. Well, thank you

I imagined it basically as transposing the last 1/3 of the Mahabharata to the Star Wars universe. Have much of the begining spent preparing and reckoning with a battle to end all battles, then deal with the bittersweet aftermath and unresolved questions.

[leftofthedial]

9. Leia was so much hotter than anything since