I failed anatomy (Why is it weird that Ann has an Adams Apple?)

[trumad]

Just askin? :shrug:

[phaseolus]

1. it's a "secondary sex characteristic" that men generally get

"The Adam's apple is considered a secondary sex characteristic, such as increased body hair, and is caused by more testosterone flowing through men's (and some women's) bodies."

http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/1715.html

"Even though your Adam's apple most likely is the harmless result of your hormones, social stereotypes can obviously contribute to the feelings of embarrassment that you write about. Often when an individual looks different from those around her or him, her/his self-confidence can suffer because of embarrassment or social teasing. Talking with a therapist might help you to recognize and appreciate the emotions you've had while growing up and learn to restore some of your confidence."

http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/2487.html

Just think... a little more therapy and a little less amphetamines could have turned her into a real human being instead of a hateful ranting bitch.

[izzie]

26. You do not use it in drawing women even if you can see it.

Poor Ann

[ant]

2. I think the more interesting question...

...is why constantly questioning Coulter's femininity - which seems to be defined in very "traditional" ways when it comes to her - is seen as acceptable by many on DU.

This is really no different than those who would dismiss feminism by saying feminists are all a bunch of hairy, fat, butch dykes. (And, by the way, SO WHAT if they are? Does being ugly and fat mean you don't have a right to speak your mind and demand equality?)

There are a lot of things that suck about Coulter. Her politics, her beliefs, her public statements...let's try to focus on the SUBSTANCE rather than adopt the tactics of anti-feminists by talking about her adam's apples and what not.

As a woman, and as a feminist, I'm really irritated by this. Coulter may be crazy, and no doubt she has risen to the level she has because she's a good poster girl for the right, but the fact is it isn't easy for ANY woman - republican, democrat, or anywhere in between - to be strong and vocal without having someone criticize her for being "too manly." Let's leave this approach to the misogynists on the right, please.

[Susang]

5. Yeah, what she said

Who the hell cares if she has an adam's apple or not? I only care about the hateful rhetoric she spews. Constantly commenting on what she looks like is as sexist as anything she throws out. It makes me embarrassed that it we seem to be embracing a double standard here.

[hlthe2b]

6. you make excellent points, ant... and generally I agree with you..

However, I think that there is a line of questioning that is a bit relevent and which some here may be following. Like the crass homophobes who (in some instances) end up behaving out of self-loathing at their own well-closeted homosexuality, one could wonder what is behind Coulter's apparent loathing for feminists and liberal men and women in general. Some psychologists point out that we are most intolerant of those things we hate most in ourselves. If one follows that line of reasoning, it does open questions as to what triggers Coulter's vitriol.

[ant]

7. I don't follow

I understand the point about hating in others what we hate in ourselves, but I'm not sure what, specifically, you're talking about in Coulter's case. What does this line of questioning have to do with how "manly" she appears/behaves?

[hlthe2b]

10. I think you'd need a psychiatrist/psychologist to delve into it...

and I don't qualify. However, Coulter is certainly a paradox in classical male versus female terms... On the one hand she wears very skimpy skirts and long flowing blonde hair over an exceedingly thin (very likely anorexic or bulimic) body, nearly devoid of feminine (curvy) features, (and which ultimately results in that prominent adam's apple as an unintended consequence). She spews hate for the assertive aspects of the feminist movement, yet her own assertiveness in exposing her views approaches aggressive and almost violent proportions. She has complete disdain for the classical female emotions including compassion for others less fortunate and a desire to both understand and help others. One could certainly never consider her to be a "care giver." Do I think she is a man? No. Do I think she disdains and seeks to diminish any innate femininity in herself? Yes. Does she do so in a way that would be considered nonthreatening to her RW crowd, by maintaining just enough sexuality via the miniskirts, hair, etc.-- I think so. She certainly is not lacking in intelligence.... I do think something is seriously wrong with the woman, on a psychological level.

Ok, all speculative on my part. Feel free to disagree.

[ant]

15. yes and no...or sort of

She spews hate for the assertive aspects of the feminist movement, yet her own assertiveness in exposing her views approaches aggressive and almost violent proportions.

That I agree with. She certainly holds onto right-wing caricatures of feminism (and liberals in general) while exhibiting the qualities she claims to hate in others. I understand your point there now.

Do I think she disdains and seeks to diminish any innate femininity in herself? Yes.

But then the obvious question: what's "innate femininity?"

I understand the classical construct, and I agree with what you said after this about Coulter adopting a traditionally feminine appearance while adopting traditionally male behavior. It makes sense that she would try to be "one of the guys" in an ideology that tends to hate women. While that's certainly an interesting discussion, it's not the discussion I usually see taking place when it comes to Coulter.

I guess what I'm getting at is why we, as progressives/leftists/liberals/whatever, would accept this right-wing view. Maybe we should all be more conscious about trying to move beyond that, and how we treat/talk about Coulter offers a good opportunity for that.

I think people need to re-examine their views on femininity. Why is being agressive and violent not consistent with femininity? Doesn't the fact that women can and do exhibit these qualities automatically make them feminine qualities?

I understand why this happens with people on the right - I expect them to cling to outdated notions of femininity and womanhood and the rest - but it's discouraging to see the same sort of ideas pop up on the left.

I do think something is seriously wrong with the woman, on a psychological level.

And that I certainly agree with.

[hlthe2b]

17. While I may be giving all DUers too much benefit of the doubt,

and I think we have to be cautious about discussions that stem on intolerance, I DO think we must seek to understand Coulter, in order to counter her. And yes, misogyny is not unique to RWers, unfortunately. Something we must work on, all around.

[SweetZombieJesus]

8. You're looking at this from the wrong perspective

The context which I've always read it in is a sort of classical feminism wherein women are generally more rational and peaceful, i.e. more likely to be liberal, and that the Ann is a Man thing is a reflection of the way she exhibits characteristics of stupid, violent men. She's like a female misogynist in a lot of ways, in that she hold herself up to be some sort of standard for Republican women to live up to: hateful, willfully ignorant and mendacious. She's just trying to show she's one of the good ole boys, and as such, I will continue to make fun of her adam's apple, and not feel guilty that I'm being misogynist.

Hating Ann Coulter doesn't make you a misogynist or afraid of strong women. It makes you sane and afraid of crazy idiots like Ann.

[paradisiac]

12. the problem with that

One of the problems I see with that chain of thought is a woman is being stripped of her femaleness because she's assertive, because she's not afraid to deploy a certain degree of "verbal aggression" when she feels like it. That seems like a type of gender policing against a woman, which is regressive.

Pointing out Coulter's ugly tactics and lies and criticizing her for it does not entail insisting she's a transexual or calling her a man.

But the silliest thing about the Ann-the-man deal in my opinion is that we allow ourselves to sink down to the level where we skirt the periphery of misogyny. I'm afraid that's one of the right-winger's goals, to make their opponents use the same ugly tactics they do, then proclaim with glee, "look at how intolerant the left is!".

[SweetZombieJesus]

14. No, she's stripped of her femaleness because she's a crazy lying bitch

Not because she's "assertive". My mom is assertive, and I love her. Several of my girlfriends have been assertive.

But a few were crazy lying bitches with an extremely tenuous grasp on reality. Saying so doesn't make me a he-man woman hater, does it?

I love assertive women when they're honest and compassionate. When they're full of shit and hateful, it's a completely different story.

[ant]

16. she's crazy and she lies

But so are/do many others on the right. It's only in Coulter's case that her sex becomes relevant at all. Why is that?

[SweetZombieJesus]

19. If she were a guy, we'd be making the "overcompensating for tiny willy"

argument. But she's ostensibly a woman, so we have to do the opposite.

And really, it's very hard to believe she's a real woman. I mean, I've known some run of the mill crazy women before, but none of them advocated killing all Muslim leaders.

So, at least in my case, it's not about trying to put her in her place or anything silly like that. Besides, inferring that she's a man drives the freepers who fawn over her batshit, so what's wrong with that?

I mean, honestly, do you want to associate that crazy bitch with the rest of the female gender? I don't even want to admit she's a human being.

[hlthe2b]

23. "I don't even want to admit she's a human being..."

... and on that, we can all agree! :evilgrin:

[ant]

24. I'll give you that

Point granted on the tiny dick thing, but I'm not actually convinced that sort of thing is as common. I'll have to pay attention to some threads for a while to get a handle on how often a person's sex is brought up in criticizing right-wingers.

And really, it's very hard to believe she's a real woman. I mean, I've known some run of the mill crazy women before, but none of them advocated killing all Muslim leaders.

Again, I just don't see why her sex is relevant here. So she's crazy and has advocated the killing of all Muslim leaders - how does that lead you to believe she's not a real woman? What's the connection there?

(It actually sounds like you're saying "she's too crazy to be a woman," which amuses me because usually being crazy is a common thing people associate with women. If I were to buy the "women are crazy" myth I would have to say Coulter is ALL woman.)

So, at least in my case, it's not about trying to put her in her place or anything silly like that.

I want to be clear: I don't believe that those who make these points are deliberately sexist or anything like that. I just think that sometimes, wheter we realize it or not, we use language or tactics that accept a certain system we would otherwise object to. That's how pervasive "isms" can be (and we're ALL guilty of it at one time or another).

I mean, honestly, do you want to associate that crazy bitch with the rest of the female gender? I don't even want to admit she's a human being.

Heh. Since women are also human beings I guess I don't see the distinction. ;)

[izzie]

27. Well men are just as bad if they are like her.

We just have to hunt for men that mean also.

[ForrestGump]

18. Agree and disagree

Sure, if she's a man, or was a man (externally, and still is physiologically), or is simultaneously both man and woman, making fun of that fact is inconsistent with the ideals that many of us hold dear. That's true if she's a Natural Woman, too, in that we'd be making fun of perceived masculine traits. Among DUers we could very well have transgendered people and I strongly doubt that most of us would ever jump on that fact as an article of derision.

On the other hand, she's one of the most virulently hateful people to be given a voice in American mainstream media and, to a certain extent, she deserves to be ripped into in whatever way is possible. That doesn't mean that the rippers' tactics are necessarily any loftier than those of the Bad Guys (such as her) but they're at least justifiable in some way. Given the Right's collective hatred/fear of anyone of anything perceived as 'different,' and that she is a true poster girl of the far-Right, I know that I will revel in the irony if she ever actually publically admits to being other than biologically female.

The same with Rush Limbaugh's addiction - it wouldn't be right to jump on it if he weren't such a rampantly ugly and hate-filled hypocrite. It's not the addiction that's funny or inherently worthy of contempt, it's the hypocrisy and the nature of the addicted person.

I don't particularly carry on about either her alleged maleness or that Limbaugh was busted for drug-related hypocrisy, but I can see the point of those who do. And the point of those who think it is not only beneath us but smacks of misogyny or other assorted negative traits.

[jafap]

28. I also think that this line will "prove" to Repukes

that you are nuts. I think she is totally gorgeous, and see nothing at all wrong with her neck either. I was in lust with her from the first time I saw her on "Politically Incorrect" - until she started talking. I switched right from "who is the babe?" to "who is the a%%-hole."
The Chinese say, "the person who hits first is the one who has run out of ideas." Attack her person, and it shows your inability to attack her rhetoric.
Also I am guessing that the "a" in "ant" stands for "awesome" - at least it should!

[Philosophy]

3. Everybody has them

It's just that men's larynxes are bigger and more prominently visible so they have lower voices. Ann has a pretty low voice for a woman and she is also abnormally thin so her larynx is unusually noticeable.

[trumad]

4. Here's the deal

Anyone who advocates the death of another human being deserves whatever is thrown her/their way....

[Stone Cold]

22. I agree with trumad...

...Ann has always been a hateful person. She deserves what she gets because of advocating killing other human beings and her lies. You all know how hateful she is. Besides, the comic was intended to be humorous. I laughed. Let's all get a sense of humor. :D :) I think some of you are looking way too deep into this. That's just my opinion.

[alphafemale]

29. She also has very large hands for a woman

Not that that means anything either.

[Ratty]

9. Heh, Adam's Apples

Once when I was in my teens a friend said you could always tell a guy was gay because he had no Adam's Apple. Of course, without thinking, my hand went right up to feel my own Adam's Apple. He had a good laugh watching me do that. I don't really have much of an Adam's Apple at all and it used to worry me greatly.

I'm all better now though ;)

[WillParkinson]

11. To Wong Foo, Thanks For Everything, Julie Newmar

If you've ever seen it (and if you haven't you should see it at least once) Patrick Swayze, John Leguizamo and Wesley Snipes play cross dressers and how the movie ends is interesting (and has to do with this topic).

[Lady Freedom]

13. The Adam's Apple. All women/men should know...

That if stimulated by mouth or hand can help incress male orgasam!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

20. OH NOOOOOOO!

Does this mean you might have done the WILD THING with someone with an Adam's apple??? :evilgrin:

[beanball]

21. D'anny's apple

well you see Bubba that bitch is a boy.

[youngred]

25. It's not

Everyone has one, it just tends to be more obivous amongst men. hers is unusually large for a woman, but it doesn't mean anything