Dog experts or experienced owners- a sad question

[Wcross]

I rescued three dogs about a month ago, two of which were female and carrying pups. The first dog (mother of the second female) had her pups two weeks ago, two survived and are doing fine. The second dog (the daughter) had her pups last night, she did not show any signs that she was going to have them last evening so I allowed her to go outside. I let the older female out in the middle of the night to pee, and didn't see or hear anything out of the ordinary.

This morning there were 4 dead pups in the front yard, the dog had managed to save one. My question is, do you think the older dog killed the pups? The third dog, Buddy was outside all night, this morning he was sitting in front of the dog house that the pup was in. Do you think he killed them? Or, is it possible that they were still born and eaten by the mother?

I have no clue about dogs. I am having both of the girls and buddy fixed as soon as they ween the pups. I am worried about leaving both sets of mothers and pups in the same house. I will keep the seperate, but is there a chance of puppicide? Will the mother of one dog kill her childs puppy's?

[Maddy McCall]

1. Was there any sign that the pups had been attacked?

Pups can be stillborn and mothers may eat their own if this happens. Also, it is a survival mechanism for bitches to kill other litters. Some even kill their own litters.

In any event, no matter what happened, you don't need to hold it against either of the mothers. It is nature at work, and even if you had kept them inside, this could have happened.

I have a friend with a Jack Russell Terrier that ate the whole litter upon arrival.

Some new doggy moms will also refuse to nurse. And bottle-feeding a litter of eight pups is almost impossible, unless you don't work and can stay at home for hourly feedings.

[Wcross]

2. Thanks jchild!

I guess it could have been either mom. I just hate it though. They are just mutts and maybe its a blessing that there was only one survivor.
It looks like she is nursing this one ok, it is her first litter. I am keeping them in seperate rooms while at work, I hope the killing has stopped!

[onebigbadwulf]

4. Ah!

Also, it is a survival mechanism for bitches to kill other litters. Some even kill their own litters.

Now we know why Anne Coulter doesn't have any children.

[SoCalDem]

3. Exposure, most likely

Just warch them and see how they treat the pups.. If they handle them roughly, or push them away, you may have to head for Pert Smart and feed them by bottle..

It's not common for them to kill the pups.. and some mother dogs will nurse others' puppies.. We had a dog that even nursed kittens:eyes:..

[Wcross]

5. I inspected the new mom

She has some bite marks on her nose, she was fighting. I assume it was the older dog that did the killing. It seems as if she is nursing well, so I think this one will be ok.

I guess the fact that the litters were so close together (two weeks), inspired the older dog to try to kill off the new litter. I still like all the mutts, I am just pissed off that they would do this!

[SoCalDem]

6. Infanticide is more a male trait..

If the male kills the litter, the female will come into heat sooner, and then HIS pups will "win out".. That's nature for ya.. Brutal.. Sounds like maybe she fought for them..I would not worry about her being a good mom.. she did save one..

You might want to take her and the baby to the vet, just to make sure the little one is not wounded or getting distemper from being out all night.. They don;t have to get very cold, to get sick..:(..

I hope you have some help with the maternity ward duties :)

[Wcross]

7. Buddy a KILLER?

They were his pups, but I wouldn't put it past him. I inspected the pup and there is no broken skin. It wasn't too cold last night (55) so it should be ok.

As far as maternity ward duties, its just me and the moms.

[7th_Sephiroth]

9. yeah

i have a dog who nursed a cat

[Wcross]

8. How long?

How long before it will be safe to allow all the dogs to mingle? At what age will the pups be safe?

[SoCalDem]

10. You will just have to watch them and see how they do..

You might go to Pet Smart or Petco and ask the resident "dog trainer".. (Our store has one).. If the two dogs got along before, they should be ok....Just feed them separately so food is not an issue, and make sure each one has their own "space"..

We were lucky...our Lab had a charmed litter.. 9 healthy pups, no rivalry from the other dogs...but it sounds like your girls have led a hard life :(.. Chin up.. it will be ok :)

[jobycom]

11. I've seen litters get along, and litters fight

We had three female dogs who all had puppies at the same time. Of the three moms, two were the daughters of the third. Of the three litters, oddly the two daughters had all daughters (and they were from the same litter themselves, so something genetic was happening), but the oldest dog's litter were all males. These males (half chow, from the mom) were the meanest puppies I've ever seen. We caught them a couple of times trying to kill the other puppies, to the point of bloodying them. But the two female litters mixed well, with no problems.

That may have been gender related, or it may have been genetic. The matriarch of the whole clan was the daughter of a very mean male chow who would randomly and viciously attack his owner, and other dogs. Everyone kept their kids away from him. But his daughter (our dog, the matriarch, in case you're getting lost) is very sweet. Her male puppies were vicious, too. Not sure how that ties in.

As for the puppies being killed, the matriarch did once move all of the other puppies outside, and my wife thought she was trying to kill them. We couldn't be sure-- she had dug a small hole and was dropping the other puppies in it. I think she was just moving them further away from her litter, but there was definitely a rivalry going.

Are you sure the puppies were killed by one of your dogs? Where we live, urban coyotes are a big problem, and kill a lot of small pets. Any predators like that? Were the puppies eaten or just killed?

[radwriter0555]

12. Please separate the mom and her pup from the rest of the dogs.

That will solve all the issues.

The mom didn't kill her pups.