Do spelling and grammar count???

[grannylib]

Question for discussion - I would appreciate hearing from others on this.
Not to sound like a schoolmarm or anything, but is it worrisome to anyone else that so many people don't seem to be able to spell correctly/use proper English grammar?
I am particularly concerned when I see things like petitions being generated, with the intention of passing those petitions along to any government figure/entity, with glaring spelling and grammatical errors. IMHO, it might give others the perception that we are not too bright, or just careless, or whatever...
I have seen this one a lot: "appauling" when it should be "appalling" and one of these instances was on a petition that DUers were being asked to sign. I attempted to e-mail the author but received the e-mail back as undeliverable.
Does this stuff really matter, or am I being too anal?
Other pet peeves:
"its" vs "it's" (constantly being used incorrectly)
apostrophes in plurals...
"should of" vs "should've"

I am simply trying to say that I think it's important that we create the best possible impression, particularly with anything that is designed to go beyond the DU site. No need to give them anything to pick apart that will detract from the message.
Thoughts??
Thanks for patience with long post...

[caledesi]

1. You forgot the classic "loose" when the writer means "lose" ARRGH!

[Stevendsmith]

2. "Definately"

I see that one quite a bit.

The correct spelling is "definitely"

[eyesroll]

6. That's one I always mess up...

But I'm a total stickler for "it's/its" correctness.

[lapislzi]

8. Pet peeve: it's spelled HYPOCRISY, people

and people who practice it are hypocrites.

Not hypocrates, hippocrits; not hypocracy (is that "too little democracy") or hippocrasy. Or any other variation.

Sorry...end of rant...

[moz4prez]

22. HYPOCRACY

rule of the deficient

[Maddy McCall]

3. anal

Why disaffect people just because they quickly tap out messages on a forum.

The Democratic umbrella is a broad one that includes Ph.Ds and GEDs. I for one don't think it is appropriate to alienate people just because they can't spell properly. I would be included in that group, because I frequently type out messages and don't review them before posting. The urgency is more important that perfection to me.

As for whatever petition to which you are referring--I am appreciative of anyone who takes the time to engage in activism. Could care less if his or her spelling or grammar is perfect. I doubt petitions are ignored because of form.

All JMO.

[grannylib]

9. I certainly apologize if I have offended...

And I do not mean to disaffect anyone, particularly those on whose side I am firmly sitting!
I understand that quick messages typed out should not be "red penciled" or anything, and I am not out to shoot the messengers...

I appreciate your feedback!

[Maddy McCall]

30. no, granny, you haven't offended me...

this topic surfaces periodically on this forum, and it always seems elitist--"I am smarter than you"--in orientation.

Now, I am NOT saying that about you. It's just a personal pet peeve of mine, that's all. I am not the type to point out others' grammatical or spelling errors unless I am grading their history papers.

And I was referring to online petitions, not hard copy that someone should have proofed before being passed out.


By the way, I haven't properly said this to you, so :hi: welcome to DU.

No offense taken, and I hope I wasn't too harsh. :-)

On edit: Oh the irony--edited for grammar :-)

[jafap]

16. well, it can make you look like a moran

but no body is perfect - except Angie Dickenson's (OMFG how do you spell Dickinsen???)

Back in the 1980s when I was a young Alex P. Keaton, the Minnesota Daily showed a photo of a guy with a sign that said "Honk if your against Reagan" which showed me that them libruls were morans.

As to quickly tapping out messages, I think I would prefer responses that are thoughtful and have been proofed. Many is the time I have reached for the dictionary to avoid revealing my inability to remember the i before e rule or the doubling of letters as in "apparrent". In my last post, I had to look up "competitive" which I first wrote as "competetive". If you care about the ideas you are presenting, you should represent them well.

But, of course, spelling and grammar do not "count". Counting is down the hall in math class.

[NuckinFutz]

18. It depends..

In a forum like this one, people get in a hurry and fat finger things. That's to be expected. I've done it myself.

In a professional document or petition, especially, bad spelling and grammar irritate the hell out of me. If that makes me an intellectual snob, sorry. But it truly makes me cringe to get memos and email from high level management who apparently can't even be bothered to run a grammar and spelling checker. I have the same problem with professional documents or flyers. The bad grammar reflects badly upon those who publish and/or write the documents.

Obviously, this feeling doesn't 'resignate' with most folks who voted for Bush and intend to do it again. I think they 'misunderestimate' his idiocy. I personally think constant bad grammar reflects inate stupidity, and I prefer people in positions of power and leadership to be at least literate, and hopefully, wiser than I.

[grannylib]

27. Once got a memo from the VP where I used to work....

that contained the following:
1) "There will be a internal audit..." (how about AN internal audit?)
2) "All departments must maintain its focus..." (each department, maybe??)

Yikes...

[NuckinFutz]

33. An entire directorate

of employees where I work, all working of the same massive server, serving for several cities, was sent an email indicating the server would be down for a few hours. In the email, the writer apologized for any "incontinence this might cause," when he/she obviously meant inconvenience. No spelling errors, and no real grammatical ones... just goes to show that you shouldn't rely on software for everything. There's just no complete substitute for effective proofreading.

The sad thing about this was that I noticed the error, but most people I work with didn't. Once it was brought to people's attention, they got a really big laugh out of it.

[Redleg]

34. Not fair to say he/she is anal compulsive because he/she...

is concerned by poor spelling and grammar. I am just being pedantic by correcting your use of "anal." Maybe that is my pet peeve! Just kidding.

[lapislzi]

4. You only get one chance to make a first impression

So make it count. I believe it is especially important to present our message in clear, correctly spelled, and grammatically accurate language. When the RW engages in "moranic" behavior, it shows them for the anti-intellectual ignoramuses they are.

I will sometimes correct DUers who I think should know better, but we also need to make allowances for clumsy fingers and high emotions. I'm guilty of that myself.

But overall, especially when presenting to the world-at-large, the message is only as good as the package it's in. At least that's mho.

[joshdawg]

5. Just my opinion....

I tend to agree with you. However, in defense of some of these messages, I must say that some, if not most, are written in a hurry to try to get them out expeditiously. This is, in no way, to be construed as a defense, but just a suggestion.

One other thing I have noticed is the misspelling of the word "moron".I have seen it spelled "moran" and "morun". No big deal. The meaning is clear. That is what I look for.

Thanks for the post and allowing me to reply.

[Paschall]

7. Yes

Spelling counts for 4 out of 10 points; and the other six are for grammer. :evilgrin:

Seriously, if people are presenting something through an "official" channel, they should do a double- or triple-check. I usually only find my own mistakes here at DU after my editing privileges have expired. :dunce:

[asjr]

10. grammar

It bothers me Grannylib. But I mostly keep my mouth shut. I have the feeling grammar is not being taught in schools today. When I was in school in the dark ages much emphasis was placed upon proper grammar. If students do not learn or are not taught I can't blame them. But I do cringe at times. I have lapses myself especially when typing on an old keyboard, but what the heck I'll live. Times have changed. There is a lot more to learn today than when I was in school.

[PurityOfEssence]

11. Absatively

It shows many things: respect for the reader by having spent some effort on it, an orderliness of mind when dealing with thoughts and communication and some form of tacit statement on one's respect for society at large by having gone through an apprenticeship to the language before spouting off.

Whether one likes it or not, typos, writeos and thinkos all detract from the message, and one is torpedoing one's own efforts by not taking the care. It's just human nature. Sure, there are always some who will pick on structure to obfuscate the argument and marginalize his/her opponent, but the truth of one's reaction to cumulative errors is pretty hard to deny.

Sure, some haven't had the benefit of education, but I see a fair amount of slack for that around here, and one can always learn. Eric Hoffer didn't have much schooling, nor did Jack London. The list goes on and on.

Yes, dagnabbit, it matters.

[Rashind]

12. In defense of fucking up its vs it's...

The rules governing its vs it's are irregular. It is completely impossible for many of us to keep these two straight in our heads.

Usually I break the contraction down to it is if I'm being particularly careful, but I'll confess that's not incredibly often, and I honestly have no idea what is correct for which meanings. I have my writer's reference within 2 feet of my left arm right now, but... meh. Logic homework to do.

[foo_bar]

24. when is it irregular?

(or rather, how is it irregular?)

"It's" is always a contraction of "it is" or "it has". "Its" is always possessive.

[Syncronaut Seven]

13. Yes

I keep my dictionary close at hand. The mis-spelling of others I can tolerate. I hate it when I get it wrong.

I also look up words I don't fully comprehend as I read them. It's nice to have more than just a hammer in your tool box. :)

Harrad.

[kutastha]

14. Matters to me

I pick up on misspellings and typos pretty quickly. It's my native language, and I make every attempt to respect it as possible. Someone can have a brilliantly worded diatribe, but throw in a couple misspellings and somehow it seems somewhat less attractive.

People can call it anal, or ask what does it matter, but as the internet grows, so do the misspellings. I never saw "definately" til recently, and now it's everywhere. I didn't even know you could misspell, let alone pronounce, it like that.

Another one that is becoming more common is the overuse of apostrophes. Or should I say, apostrophe's? They're becoming more and more prevalent as they get used more and seen more every day.

I guess we should ask, "Is our children learning?"

[LittleApple81]

19. English is NOT my native language, and I make my share of

typing mistakes because I am hurrying to get something out (i.e., when C-Span or T.V. programs have something interesting and I don't want DUers to miss it). However, it hurts me to see how Americans in general have no appreciation or love for their language. English is a beautiful language and we should respect it for what it is: a wonderful communication tool. And tools should be used correctly to produce the desired effect.

[corarose]

15. It depends on where you are from

I lived in England and some of the words are spelled different. Like Grey/Gray for instance.

I am from Chicago and we speak different then other people. We say use guys.

[grannylib]

20. No problem with spelling differences for UK/Canadian etc...

color vs colour
behavior vs behaviour
practice vs practise
etc...
that is perfectly understandable.
used to live in the UK myself, so used to those differences

[ZenLefty]

17. In a published work, all grammar and spelling should be correct.

In a post on an internet discussion board, its definately not important. ;-)

[oneighty]

23. Youse be rite their

Misster ZenLefty. Wheris you been?
810

[roughsatori]

21. I agree. I don't like signing petitions that are ungrammatical

As others have mentioned the written word is like an introduction--and you never get to make a first impression twice.

I have done proof-reading and editing for my more politically active friends who will admit that they are slovenly with their language, but they know it is important to write well in petitions and submissions of Abstracts, etc.

[SadEagle]

25. What's weird about this issue at DU...

... and similar forums is that they represent, in effect, a written form of spoken speech rather than written speech. When we speak, we certainly do not worry about spelling (is this is obvious enough to earn me a job as a pundit?) and we also tend to do tons of things English teachers would get angry about --- like using incomplete sentences, etc. We also ignore certain stylistic conventions from writing that would look rather silly when chatting with a friend.
Here, however, our 'conversations' are put down in writing, so the speaker has to decide how to combine the two types of language. So as long as the writer can actually speak "proper" English when needed, I personally don't care, as I wouldn't grammar-check anyone in a conversation.

[Cleita]

26. For purposes of posting on internet boards, I don't feel

that nit-picky. I often post knowing I have made some grammatical, spelling and punctuation errors, but time constraints prevent me from fixing them at the time. I agree with you about petitions and other official documents or articles to be submitted for publication. These documents should be proofread by a real editor before being made public. Many of the people who make the errors are unaware of them, so everyone should get an editor. Mine is a retired English teacher who lives across the road from me.

[RichardRay]

28. Important for me, anyway....

My father was a newspaper editor; not just any newspaper - The Christian Science Monitor. I couldn't get out of the house with a piece of writing until it had passed through his hands. I absolutely HATE it when I read one of my own posts and find a word spelled incorrectly or something basic like noun-verb disagreement or incorrect use of a comma in a restrictive phrase.

I try not to let spelling or grammar problems color my appreciation for the content of what other people write, but I’m not always successful. I have a prejudice that people who don’t write well don’t think well, either. That’s not always true, I know, and the feeling is still there.

-
Richard Ray - Jackson Hole, WY

[mantis49]

29. your and you're bug

the hell out of me.

you're = you are

your = belongs to you

[Book Lover]

31. I have replied to this before and been flamed privately...

but it is worth repeating - yes, it bothers me. Yes, it makes one look ill-educated. We are not communicating using speech, where rules are much looser; we are communicating in writing. We have rules and standards in written communication to prevent as many misunderstandings as possible. That is not an elitist attitude.

[MissMillie]

32. If you're asking me to sign something

YES... spelling and grammar count.

Here in the lounge where people are just shooting the breeze.... nope.