My "prejudicial" rant.(LONG)

[lildreamer316]

This is probably going to piss someone off. It's probably going to be very telling on me,and maybe many of you will feel that I am the typical white southerner,but I need to discuss this and get my feelings out on the table. In my defense, I am always open to other opinions on my state of mind and I realize I may be way off base here; but anyway:
I live in a medium-sized (200/300,000)southern town that was built on textiles, tobacco and colleges. We have 2/3 very liberal arts colleges here, one founded by Quakers. I have lived here all my life,and my parents made me attend the most prestigious Methodist Church in the city because they were studiously trying to climb the social ladder. For generational reference, I am 32 and my parents (both now dead)were 39 and 40 when I was born. Children of the 40s and 50s. I was an only child brought up in the southern tradition of teaching girls manners and music (piano from age 5) and poise (ballet from age 5). I was expected to be a little adult. My mother was a college professor and my father in the insurance industry. Nice house, not TONS of money but ok; you get the idea. I kinda rebelled against their elitism.Why were they ashamed of their poor roots? I purposely took what they thought were menial jobs because I didn't like the way they classified ppl. I accept ppl from all walks of life in my circle and always have; my parents turned out to be hypocritical alot.
Fast forward: I have been employed in the nightclub industry here for 11 years. I know most of the key players in town and what the history is concerning who has lasted, who hasn't, and what the "town temperament"is--do you know what I mean? I KNOW this town; what works and what doesn't; who to cross and who not to. I am now a moderate investor in a new restaurant & dueling piano bar (chain)that is scheduled to open downtown in a newly revitalized area this fall.
Lately (last 5 years) this town has gotten progressively more inundated with the latino and African-American population. I have NO PROBLEM with this; however I can see the traditionalists starting to get antsy.(their problem; just mentioning--I'm very observant) This town is very QUIETLY progressive; we like to put on the front that we are just good ol boys like everyone else; whilst underneath we are pushing the envelope--but no one talks about it. So all the clubs see this new customer base (they are young and motivated)and start catering to them with their music and drink specials. Again, not a huge argument from me. My problem is this: does EVERY club here have to play hip-hop???EVERY SINGLE ONE??? By my guess right now sitting here at the computer there are 30 nightclubs running in the area every weekend. There is NO PLACE for someone who wants to hear tech trance breaks to go. There are jazz bars (2) there are beach bars (2)there are live music bars (3) there are top 40 bars (the top 4 bars in town). No one is catering to the gay crowd. ( one of the gay bars shut down and the other one for some reason just started employing the same group of djs that the regular top 40 bars have; which means they play the EXACT SAME MUSIC).
Why wouldn't you want variety? Why wouldn't you want to give these people like me and others who I KNOW are out there (there is a fairly large gay and progressive pop. here because of the aforementioned 2 liberal arts colleges)a place to go? WHy wouldn't you want our MONEY??
So this columnist gets in one of the local paper (section on the local scene)and talks about how "hip-hop rules the world" and has the AUDACITY to COMPLAIN that the city is not accepting it enough!!WHAT?? I can't count the bars on both hands that are playing it.
Here's where I'm going to cross the line with some of you: As far as I can see, every PROGRESSIVE city in the world has a balance of urban music with HOUSE, BREAKS, PROG HOUSE; ELECTRONIC music in general. The city echos the mindset of its inhabitants. The fact that we are so eager to cash in on this ONE kind of music is not only telling, it's actually rude.I think it means we, as are alot of the south, SUBSTANTIALLY behind the times, and I think it speaks for our mindset. Also, to be COMPLETELY HONEST, many of the bars who are playing alot of this music are having problems with fights and shootings. One bar that used to be tech went hip hop and has had 7 ppl killed in the parking lot in the last year. Oh, there's a good advertisement. This is becoming commonplace. ( I would really like to know why??)
And basically, I find it to be ruining our reputation in many ways. The other 2 cities adjoined to us are very industrial; we are the "pretty" city and the place everyone comes to from miles around to party when they don't want to make the trek to the biggest city in NC 2 hours away.
Keep in mind I am speaking purely as a business person here. I know my town and I know the people "in power" and this is not a profitable and productive thing unless it is balanced. That is my problem. This columnist brought out the irritation I have been striving to deal with for years. He is acting as an uniformed ignoramus in my opinion and I'm sorry; that's just how I feel. We need to progress,and it seems that many things are conspiring to hold us back. The city council has been fighting for years against the "old guard" of southerners who didn't want the town to grow any bigger and progress. We have finally won that fight with a surge of revitalization downtown, a new baseball park, the FedEx hub at the airport, and many ppl moving here because it is rated a good place to raise a family with a decent cost of living.
There, I said it. I am not racist and I find alot of hip hop to be a great form of expression. But alot of it isn't, and promotes violence.Sorry.This guy really pissed me off.
Flame away.

ON edit: does that " make more sense? sheeh...

[XemaSab]

1. .

:popcorn:

[Bouncy Ball]

3. I didn't even know where to start.

[Bouncy Ball]

2. Free market.

If hip hop is what brings the customers in, hip hop is what the clubs will play.

I don't get your whole thing about increased violence. When I was in college a lot of people were very into speed metal, etc. and those shows/concerts were often extremely violent (I'm talking about the audience/crowd).

Hey why don't you start up a club with only ambient music to counteract the effect of all the hip hop?

[lildreamer316]

7. Ok..

Free market isn't the problem.
I realize I did't put the other problem down: alot of said bar owners are COMPLAINING that they are not making any money on different nights. I listened and observerd and realized that the problem is there are too many bars playing the SAME THING. If you want to hear this format you have about 15/25 bars to choose from. No kidding. So the base is being spread too thin. But instead of trying to cater to a different crowd,these bar owners continue to try to fight each other for the finite amount of business that is available. Stupid stupid. If someone would open a bar such as I have suggested and RAN IT CORRECTLY and DIDN'T GET GREEDY (and give in to wanting the money NOW instead of later which leads them to play the hip hop) we would be fine.It's a killer circle, because now we have a city-wide reputation as a hip hop town and to get a tech bar started you would have to give it half a year to a year to get the word out and start making a profit. See?
I tried to buy 2 bars but to be completely honest the owners were 1)too greedy and 2)didn't want to sell to a woman. The second bar owner had my check for 10 grand IN HIS POCKET and THEN decided NOT to sell to me.

[Bouncy Ball]

4. You say you aren't racist, btw, but look at your title.

It confused me. You aren't racist, but you are prejudiced??? Confused.

[lildreamer316]

9. Trying to

say I'm prejudiced at the moment against that kind of music IN A CLUB as a business person in this town.

[Spider Jerusalem]

26. How does that affect YOUR business?

You run your business as you see fit, these club owners do the same. You think they need competition? Provide it. Find a few partners and open a club that specialises in house/trance/breakbeat/etc. Throw in a drum & bass/Asian underground night. Might attract some of the hip-hop crowd. There's a better answer than complaining about the way these guys run their clubs; if the market wasn't there, they wouldn't be doing it.

[lildreamer316]

31. See post # 7.

Long story; I tried. This is going to be the best for me in the long run; unless I can somehow get my hands on 9/Enigma. All my money is tied up right now; but as soon as this starts paying out I will be solvent; maybe another year.

[Kire]

5. Time to pack it up and head to the mountains.

Da da ding ding, ding ding, ding ding ding.

[Kire]

11. I hate hip-hop, too.

Aesthetically, it's displeasing to me.

And I hate the feeling that I'm not free to hate it when I'm around certain people. I hate that feeling about anything. But, shit, I forgot what I was going to say.

But I'm not successful at business, and this might be related to my need to be free from all that shit. Hip hop is not rebellion. In a lot of ways I think hip-hop is racist in itself. It has something to do with corporations exploiting the image of what "blacks" should be. "Gangsta-rapping" is just dumb, IMHO. But, what do I know, I was born, and I still live, in the mountains.

[lildreamer316]

15. Here I was

thinking you were jumping on me.Well, I may deserve it anyway.
Really; its a business thing. They way it is being handled here is just not productive for anyone; that's all; and I can't understand why these biz guys don't understand THAT fact,y'see??

[Kire]

16. I was jumping on you.

It's not about business. It's about politics. The corporations who benefit from hip-hop and it's exploitation of race are using this to gain power over their competitors (i.e. you).

And if you keep using the "it's about business" argument, sooner or later someone's going to accuse you of being worried about "property value" when a black person moves into your neighborhood. Metaphorically speaking, of course.

[lildreamer316]

22. I agree and disagree.

Of course in the bigger picture it's about politics, but that dosen't apply immediately here. The point you make is a realization that people have to come to in their own time. In this situation, if I were to take THAT attitude, that would come across as MORE racist than I think many percieve this first one about business. The bottom line is: money talks and bullshit walks.I know this town,and I can see what is wrong and what is right. These dumbass club owners won't listen to a stupid woman, but I'm telling you I'm right. Time will tell. If these owners don't wake up and diversify and let the clubs that are GOOD at hip-hop HAVE the crowd and DO IT RIGHT they are ALL going to lose and then we will be back where we were 10 years ago.
All I'm saying is we need diversity. COMPLETE diverstiy. We are almost at that critical stage where it's gonna be put up or shut up. We could go far, if some ppl will get a clue.

[Kire]

25. so you're calling ME racist?

The point you make is a realization that people have to come to in their own time. In this situation, if I were to take THAT attitude, that would come across as MORE racist than I think many percieve this first one about business.

am I coming across that way?

wait, you're the part club-owner, so aren't you just identifying a new market segment here? good for you, let THEM fight for the hip-hop crowd, what are you getting upset about?

[lildreamer316]

28. No...

the kind of restuarant/club I am part owner in really dosen't cater either one way or another in this particualr fight. The bar is going to be mostly focused on food with a dueling piano feature. It will be downtown withing walking distance of alot of these clubs that I am talking about; so the general mood will affect us but we are not involved (no dj or jukebox) Hubby is a dj and have alot of friends scattered in several clubs; I usually know what is being requested and not, etc.
I care about my city and I want it to do well,diversify, and progress.I see it heading down a dangerous stagnant road for the second or third time in my life and I hope it can see clear of it. That's all.
Hope no offense to you or anyone, really. Very sorry if you percieved it so; maybe I am not expressing what I mean clearly.

[Kire]

30. dueling what?

Da da ding ding, ding ding, ding ding ding.

:sarcasm:

[lildreamer316]

32. Thppppt.

Pianos.
I'm a silent partner anyway (not so much now...)

[Kire]

33. Do the pianists look like this?

[lildreamer316]

35. Dunno.

If they do, I'm pullin' out. AAAUGH.Yemuthuf***inhaw.

[Chicago Democrat]

17. Hi Kire

do you live on Short mtn in tn?

[Kire]

18. actually, I live in New Jersey

Northwest New Jersey, near the Poconos, is mountains. :hi:

[Chicago Democrat]

19. Well hello kire

my dad's name was kier

[Kire]

20. my name's Erik

Kire spelled backwards.

cheers

[Floogeldy]

6. TLDR

}(

[Spider Jerusalem]

8. Um...well.

There are a lot of redneck bars that don't play anything but shitkicking country music that have problems with fights and shootings. It's got nothing to do with the music, and everything to do with armed, drunk and/or coked-up yahoos. Anyplace with a sizable population of people who could be considered poor/underclass is going ot have problems with that sort of violence; it may or may not be gang-related, but that's got more to do with socioeconomics than race.

And hip-hop has become quite popular among the white kids, in the past 10-15 years, you know; the bar/club owners are catering to what they see as their market. (show me someone in that business who doesn't.)

And Greensboro is, I'm sure you'll agree, hardly a cosmopolitan sort of place; it doesn't have any major colleges/universities (the closest would be the UNC campus, but it hardly compares to Chapel Hill); it's not a major business city, lacks a major transportation hub...in short, it's not the sort of place that one would expect to be culturally diverse.

[lildreamer316]

10. Yeah; I know;

and half the shootings I was referring to involved white kids.
I'm just annoyed that we continue to try to pretend we are progessing and then someone wants to write such an obvious peice of drivel such as this.
And the country bars around here have changed, BTW. Riders has been relegated to ridiculousness,and the other 2 are booking high-name not-so-red fairly-progressive country acts. I know the owners of one.Their crowds are now fairly middle-of-the-road.

I do think Guliford College should make the map; it's a damn good liberal arts school.

And we got a little bit of a trans hub with the FedEx thing; sorta.

[jmm]

12. So instead of blaming the writer you post

a prejudicial rant about hip-hop? Hip hop must be great if it is powerful enough to incite violence, destroy the "QUIETLY progressive" facade of a good ol boys network, ruin a town's reputation and economy, and/or cause the lack of good journalists in your area.

[lildreamer316]

21. Heres a clarification; maybe I 'm not being clear:

I personally like certain hip=hop artists and not others, etc.etc. This is a business thing. This town is spread too thin and the biz owners are so greedy for the dollar that they are all fighting for that PARTICULAR dollar, becuase they see it as a QUICK way to make money. People in this town are NOT fickle; they are FAITHFUL to a club that is consistant and does not chase the quick buck. It is not good for biz and not good for our general rep, just like the good ol boy shit wasn't before. Balance is everything, and these men can't seem to see past their greed to a good solution. The risk here is that at first all these new clubs were a good thing, and injected money into the local economy.Now it is becoming a strain and the owners are complaining that they aren't making any money. The problem is NOT that we have too many clubs, it is that they are ALL PLAYING THE SAME THING. I don't want to see them shut down because we just got to the point where there was more than 2 decent places to go, but if they don't let go of their nearsightedness it will be too late.
The guy in the paper just was the last straw. He isn't seeing it from an economic perspective and he dosen't know this town.
People always seem to try to come into this town from somwhere else and change it to fit their needs. We don't work that way here, and that is just the way it is. You have to learn to go with the flow here.Then you'll make money.

[Spider Jerusalem]

13. Well, the columnist was obviously either a fuckwit...

or someone who is completely lacking in any breadth of musical appreciation (which, culturally, comes to the same thing). You're really better off not paying attention to idiots like that.

[lildreamer316]

24. Yes;

I just am fed up to HERE with the dumbasses here and their limited viewpoints. That was the last thing we needed.
I guess I'm just railing against human nature; I expect them to see past their greed.

[johnnie]

14. So...

Whom or what are you prejudice against?

[lildreamer316]

23. See # 9

[johnnie]

34. That was what I thought

I read all the posts and I guess I was asking my question as a rhetorical sort of question. Funny how so many people jump to a conclusion based on what style of music it is as to what "kind of people" listen to that type of music.
Some responses are more prejudicial than your original post.

[libnnc]

27. Crap, they're playing top 40 at Warehouse 29?

I haven't been there in years. What a drag...

I'm in Winston-Salem. Which other gay bar shut down? I hope it wasn't the Palms. That place is part of gay/lesbian history in the triad.

[lildreamer316]

29. Yes and yes.

Palms shut down. Top 40 at Warehouse 29.
See what I mean??

[libnnc]

36. Nooo! Not the Palms!!

Oh damn, my early 20's just flashed before my eyes!!

What a great bar that was. Joyce the bartender scared the hell out of me. God forbid you ever ordered anything outside of liquor or beer, she'd look at you like you were crazy.

Memories...Ce Ce Peniston, cig smoke and liquid fog...

[lildreamer316]

37. Sucks, dosen't it?

They put the new baseball stadium there.
Not sure why they didn't relocate; maybe too expensive? Haven't been able to tap the gossip wire about that one yet. If I do find out why I'll let you know.