Hunter stands up as guide shoots at wounded bear

[cleofus1]

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/6821337p-6715481c.html

welcome to alaska...


"Soldotna hunting guide shot and killed a Pennsylvania hunter Sunday afternoon during a guided brown bear hunt across Cook Inlet from Anchorage, in what Alaska State Troopers are calling an accident.


Gary Kern, 50, of Gettysburg, Pa., and two guides were in a thick grove of alder on the Chichantna River, about three miles south of Beluga Lake, when they spotted a bear. Kern fired two shots from about 175 yards away, wounding it, troopers spokesman Greg Wilkinson said.

As the bear fled into the brush, Soldotna-based guide David Haeg told his assistant, John Jedlicki, to shoot the animal again.

But just as Jedlicki pulled the trigger on his .338-caliber rifle, Kern stood up and into the line of fire, troopers said. Kern died at the scene of a single gunshot wound to the head."

[DS1]

1. No pity from me

Stop playing Mountain Man and your chances of having your head blasted open like a crushed grape drastically decrease.

[cleofus1]

15. OK

i assume you're a vegetarian...

[Gormy Cuss]

2. Ouch.

First job of a guide: don't kill the client.

[Shell Beau]

3. Hunting accidents are all too common.

[cleofus1]

4. yeah...tough break for everyone...

but one must be very careful when handling firearms...

[RebelOne]

5. I have no sympathy at all for hunters who get themselves shot.

Because I hate hunting and I think all hunters are dumb asses, anyway.

[Shell Beau]

9. Damn that is rough!

My dad hunts. I guess he is a dumbass! Hunting, if done for food, is and has been a way of life for humans. It is how we have survived.

[bearfan454]

10. I'm sorry you feel that way.

I know I don't hate everybody that likes different things than me.

[RebelOne]

23. I hate anyone who inflicts pain and death on animals.

Hunting is the ultimate animal cruelty.

[Shell Beau]

26. How do you think our ancestors survived?

How do you think we evolved to be what we are today?

[kodi]

88. mine survived by stealing from the rich.

and sometimes killing them too.

but that was siciliy, a long time ago.

[Rabrrrrrr]

13. Yay! Rabrrrrrr is a dumb ass!!

Finally, now, I know.

Thanks for pointing it out!

[BikeWriter]

69. Can he say that about us?

:shrug:

[Rabrrrrrr]

71. Obviously, he can

I feel no need to alert. I don't know if anyone else has.

Up to him to live with his childeshness and inability to see beyond his own myopic agenda.

Doesn't bother me.

One thing I've learned as I've gotten to be older, is that words from people about whom I think little, aren't worth worrying about, or fretting about, and can't damage me at all.

So he thinks I'm a dumbass? Who cares. Check out the source.

[BikeWriter]

75. You're wiser and more patient than I am...

Hmm, just noticed the poster is a she.

[ScreamingMeemie]

14. Thanks for calling MrG, and myself, dumbasses. Many a time it's

what has fed our kids. I find people who make sweeping generalizations to be dumbasses most of the time.

[Rabrrrrrr]

17. Hey, wasn't that just a sweeping generalization?

:P

:hi: MrsGrumpy!

I find people who think hunters are dumbasses to be ignorant overly-prejudiced fucks, no different than the racist fucks or the sexist fucks or the religionist fucks, personally.

[ScreamingMeemie]

45. Agreed Rabrrrrrr.

:hi:

[Dave Reynolds]

56. You said it!

Fucks is fucks, yah?

[Rabrrrrrr]

59. Yep, fucks is fucks

And we got some here, that's for sure.

[Dave Reynolds]

55. Wow.

You are a really sweet human being.

Or not.

[BikeWriter]

68. Be careful of who you call a dumb ass!

Damn, can he do that? :shrug:

[barb162]

97. I'm with you. All they are doing is killing for fun and showing what

big swinging dicks they are.

[StopTheMorans]

6. .

:popcorn:

[Mutley]

27. good idea

:popcorn:

I plead the 5th!

[XNASA]

7. Darwin at work.

O8)

[cleofus1]

8. tough crowd here....

i have sympathy for his family and friends...and for him too...stupid way to go...but i certainly won't dance on his grave...
not a big deal, but show some humanity...cripes...O8)

[flvegan]

11. Well, I for one am sorry for this hunter.

I'm also sorry for his family. I'm also sorry for the other hunter that has to live with killing another person.

However, I'm also sorry that right now, there's an injured bear running around, likely suffering a slow death with (possibly) 2 slugs in him.

I don't agree with hunting. I think it's barbaric, and if for sport, incredibly stupid. I don't wish them getting shot, either.

[cleofus1]

16. yeah

unfortunately no one knows what happened to the bear...

[cleofus1]

12. some background from the article

"Kern leaves a wife, Judith; daughters Jessica and Justine; and son Jason, all of Gettysburg.

He was a building trades teacher at Fairfield High School in Gettysburg and ran a small construction company part-time, his son said Monday.

Kern was a regular visitor to Alaska and an enthusiastic hunter and fisherman, Jason Kern said. The family bought a cabin in Soldotna and often came up together to spend portions of the summer, he said, though for this trip Kern was alone.

Said his son, "He loved the outdoors.""

[AntiCoup2K4]

73. Sounds like someone who should have known better....

...than to stand up in someone's line of fire. I'm not a hunter, but I think I could figure that much out. Gun behind you = good chance of something stupid happening.

My condolences to his family. And to the guide who has to live with this the rest of his life.

[jukes]

18. MOST unlikely this

was a subsistence hunter or even a true sport-hunter who'd put
this animal's death-agony to any proper use.

if you hire multiple guide's to locate animals that are pretty much only killed for trophy & you're so inept you wound the poor thing, you're not a "hunter", you're a heartless gentleman-slayer that pays big bux for the thrill of claiming you killed something.

i wd have prefered the wounded animal had back-tracked him and maimed him for the rest of his miserable republican life, but i'll gladly accept the justice of him being slaughtered by one of his own mercenary-servants.

[Shell Beau]

19. Jeez... Kind of cruel.

[jukes]

20. yes

he certainly was. but he cd AFFORD many trips and the cost of guided safaris...

[Shell Beau]

21. You know I meant what you said was cruel.

Especially to his grieving family.

[jukes]

29. apsitively

can't resist nailing an ambiguity, though, & it served my point.

i'm MUCH more concerned about the bear, maybe gutshot or otherwise maimed, dying in agony for NO fucking reason except the attempt at aggrandisement of some middle-aged elitist. imagine this poor animal starving to death because he's crippled, or dying from the agony of peritinitus from an abdominal wound.

this "hunter" died from doing something really stupid in the field, on an expensive and unnecessary trip to kill a magnificent creature for no purpose but proving his masculine superiority, whilst the local amerinds can't even afford to hunt and their game is being driven off by sport-hunters, oil-rigs and loggers.

he shd have found some less dangerous richman's hobby, and his grieving family wd be fine, as wd the bear.

[Shell Beau]

32. I thought I was talking to someone sensible...

[Xithras]

28. You're making a flawed assumption.

First, the article says that the family owns a vacation home in Alaska, so his many trips probably aren't costing him much. Since you can still buy land in Alaska for as little as $1000 an acre (even less if you want to buy in the roadless boonies), you can't even assume that the guy is rich.

You're also assuming that "guided safari's" are expensive. Fact is, most guides will take you out for a day for only a few hundred bucks, an amount that most middle class working people can afford.

You're tarring this guy without much of a case here. All we know is that this poor sap went bear hunting (and LOTS of Democrats hunt, including myself) and got his head shot off by a dumbshit guide. The rest of your assumptions are baseless and insulting.

[jukes]

31. sorry you took it so personally

ok, no, i'm not.

be honest. he paid for the pleasure of killing something he wasn't going to eat. he was really bad at it, and hurt a fairly rare animal for suspect reasons. he was stupid enough to stand up ina killing field. he was stupid enough to hire a guide that fired blindly w/o accounting for the safety of his client.

REALLY hope you have no reason to empathise w/ this mope too damn much.

i made my living w/ carrying firearms for many years. i have NO sympathy for stupidity w/guns, cruelty to animals, unnecessary killing, or (even cheap) mercenary "guides" that allow inept wanton killers out in the field.

[Shell Beau]

34. You seem to know so much about this guy

and his intentions. I am sorry about the bear, but I am more sorry for this guy and his family.

[Name removed]

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[jukes]

l LOVE my high horse, R

but you already know that. as to "assinine assumptions", see below. i admit some assumptions, albeit no "assinine" ones.

here's another assumption. his dipshit "guides" were so upset at wasting the client, they didn't bother to finish their job & track down that wounded animal.

i personally feel that the only assininity that abounds here were the killers involved in this pointless & ridiculous debacle and their apologists in this thread.

ON EDIT: Rabr, i'm a bit surprised. from previous posts, i seem to have developed a perception of you as a serious hunter. my father was a serious hunter; he wd have been appalled at the insanity displayed by these men. he was amerind.

i'm also a bit surprised at your vehemous remarks. you shd know by now i'm not easily intimidated, nor impressed by empty insults. hence, i'll just ride my "fucking high horse" into the sunset, since i have no concern at turning my back unless a danger wd be behind me whence i did.

[Name removed]

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[jukes]

47. multiple guides present.

some1 shd have dispatched that animal. it's a primary rule of safari hunting, if not for the humanitarian concern of saving the animal from unnec pain, for the fact that a wounded "big game" animal is extremely dangerous to any other human it might happen to meet.

that's 1 reason they have multiple guides present. i ASSUME this was not done, because the guides were clearly NOT professionals. did the media article remark on the bear's fate, or was every1 ONLY concerned about the men-who-shd-be-nowhere-near-firearms?

[Name removed]

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[Sugar Smack]

50. I can identify with your post because I have 3 close friends who

bowhunt. They are very, very intelligent people, they respect their surroundings when they hunt, and they feed their families off the kill for quite some time. All three are Democrats and not one throws money around wildly for some plush trophy-hunting endeavor.

[Xithras]

22. The guide is an IDIOT

You never, EVER fire a rifle in the direction of another person, even over their heads, for precisely this very reason. You NEVER know if the person is going to move into your line of fire.

The troopers can classify this as an "accident" if they want, but IMO it's negligent homicide or involuntary manslaughter. The assitant did an incredibly stupid thing in trying to shoot over the top of this guy, and killed someone as a result.

[Deep13]

42. habit of safety

I make it a point never to point a firearm in any person's direction even if I know it is not loaded, even if there is a cleaning rod in the breech, even if handling them at the dealer. This develops a habit of safety. At the range, guns must always be pointed down range and be unloaded and untouched when anyone is downrange.

Suppose the guy from PA had not stood up. Suppose instead the bullet was a flier and took out one of the seated guys. That's not unforeseeable either.

[chaska]

24. Isn't 175 yards kind of far away?

Is that really sportsman-like? The bear may not have even known the hunters were there. How's that fair?

Not to be overly down on hunters but the bear should be given a fighting chance (to get away), IMO.

Edit: I understand hunting, though I don't hunt myself. If it's food we're talking about that's one thing, the object is to put the animal on your table in anyway possible. But for sport I think you need to get closer to the animal, otherwise it's just like being a sniper. There's no honor in that kind of hunting.

[Shell Beau]

25. Usually when people hunt, they try not

to let the animal know they are there. That is kind of the point. I, however, could never ever hunt. But there are people who do it for food. I don't know if these guys were or not.

[jukes]

35. Shell Beau

do you REALLY think this guy regularly shipped bearmeat home to PA from AK to keep his family fed? he liked killing things; he especially liked killing things he cd put on display whilst hiding safely (he thought) behind professional hunters.

[Shell Beau]

36. I am not willing to make that assumption. Many people

eat wild game. Elk, bear, deer, moose, etc. I can't say for sure what he would have done with it.

[jukes]

40. i've only hunted

armed humans. i didn't eat them, nor did i mount their carcasses in my living room.

i didn't enjoy it much, either.

i AM making some assumptions here, but any1 remotely honest will admit they are at least likely, if not QUITE likely.

i am NOT making assumptions about this man's ineptitude, nor the unprofessional qualities of his baby-sitters.

if you want to kill things, you put yourself @ risk. he wanted to kill, he got himself killed instead. if he'd left the bear alone, he'd prbly still be alive.

i've been hurt in the line of duty; i never whine about it because i knew the risk i was taking. i didn't get myself killed because i didn't do really stupid things and was careful who i worked w/.

[Name removed]

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[jukes]

43. matter of perception

my belief system and code of honor demands protecting the weak, helpless, and inoffensive. that wd be the bear, in this case.

i abhor the cruel, callous, and clumsily dangerous. that wd apply to the humans, here.

sorry, SB, but WE ARE animals. we're SUPPOSED to possess superior intellectual capacity to other species, but often don't display it. i don't feel that makes us innately superior or of more value than other creatures. quite the opposite, in fact.


my cats don't realize that they are being cruel when they play w/ a cricket. WE'RE supposed to occupy a higher moral ground, but are so flawed at that...

[Shell Beau]

46. Okay, we have two totally different views on this.

I am all for animals and love them very much and hate to see them suffer. But if I had to choose the life of a human over an animal, there would be no question to it. As much as I love my dogs and think of them as part of the family, they are in no way comparable to my husband or mother or brother or father or even a complete stranger.

[jukes]

48. essentially

we do disagree. i've never claimed to be a good person. honestly, most people don't like me much. i can't say i care. but i have always done my best to measure the circumstances and do what i felt was the most honorable course.

had i been there, my 1st "choice" wd have been to disarm every1 present; fools w/guns are a VERY bad thing.

granting the improbability of that being possible (or me EVER being around these cretins) i wd have tracked down the animal & performed the humanitarian coup-de-gras. i wd have ASSUMED, o/c, that every1 else wd have been wasting tears over the white-hunter, or worrying how deep the shit they were in was.

[misanthrope]

83. So, you would pick...

...the life of Jeffrey Dahmer over that of a rescue dog?

[Xithras]

30. Not really.

The .338 is a common target shooting round because it's accurate up to about 750 yards. The slightly less accurate .30-06 has a useable range of up to 1000 yards (more than a half-mile).

A scoped 150 yard shot is about as close to point-blank as you can get when hunting.

[maxsolomon]

37. who eats BEAR?

yuck.

elk, deer, wild boar, all good. as long as you eat em, fine. but we don't need to eat megafauna predators.

[Shell Beau]

38. I don't, but I also don't eat all the other stuff

you named b/c that is yuck to me. What is yuck to one person isn't necessarily yuck to someone else.

[maxsolomon]

49. unless you're veg, you're nuts

bear is greasy. they were hunting for trophies. no one hunts bear for sustenance. there's plenty of easier game for that.

deer, elk, wild boar - that's REAL organic meat, not artificially produced factory BS.

[cleofus1]

51. bear is delicious

if you prepare it properly...i ate this bear in a burrito and boy was it good!



butchered it and put it in a sauce in preserve jars...to eat as needed...the little dots in the photo are insects....

[Ellipsis]

52. Tastes like chicken.

...couldn't resist.

[flvegan]

76. I see the gun. What weapon did the bear have? Just curious...

Sure, shooting an animal from a distance makes you such the hunter. Tell you what, you take on a bear with, oh, I don't know, a baseball bat, and maybe, maybe your shit post will matter to me. Not that what matters to me matters to you. But still...

[cleofus1]

53. hunting wild game is a skill

it is dangerous and difficult...not an evil thing...unless you're some kind of nut...people hunt to eat and they hunt for fun...sometimes both....but it is an ageless skill that should be passed from generation to generation...in this specific case it ended in tradgedy...it gets very hectic sometimes and when a mistake is made...it can cost someone their life...

but that is not a good thing or something to be relished...it is the law that you have to take the bear meat for consumption...and that is what these guys were gonna do. i respect hunters...they have been and are an essential part of our society...and perhaps always will be...baby...

[WhollyHeretic]

54. Sorry but killing something for "fun" is the sign a of a twisted mind

[Name removed]

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[WhollyHeretic]

58. I said people who kill things for fun are twisted. Trophy hunting is

disgusting.

Why don't you put a sunscreen on, your neck is looking a little red there cletus.

[Name removed]

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[flvegan]

72. Greenie ignorance. Nice.

Broad brush much, eh?

Don't throw ignorance out there unless you can back it up, partner.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Rabrrrrrr]

74. And then we're back to the holier than thous, who love to say

"Well, you can't be a real democrat/liberal if you don't believe ______"

In this case, as in so many other cases, it's "if you don't believe that hunting is only done by racist redneck republican assholes".

This is the side of liberalism and the democratic party that pisses me off - the "Either you agree with me one hundred percent, or you ARE A WORTHLESS SHITBAG NO DIFFERENT THAN A FREEPER REDNECK".

"No, you can't march in the gay rights parade with us because you think hunting is okay!" or "No, you can't join us in the war protest because you eat meat" or "No, you can't help in the feminist uprising because you drink non-fair-trade coffee" or other bullshit lines.

I fuckin' hate that attitude.

[Name removed]

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[cleofus1]

79. so who put the greenies in charge of saving the world?

do i even believe the premise that hunting is self selfish or self destructive...no...i don't hate environmentalists...not at all...but greenies tend to leave me a little flat...becouse of their holier than thou atitiudes...and my kids are my concern not yours...typical greenie attack...

[Name removed]

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[cleofus1]

86. try not to get personal

i will try too...but i do not believe greenies have the expertise to save the world...and there is nothing worse than someone trying to do something...when they don't know what the hell they're doing...

[WhollyHeretic]

89. OK, let's just do nothing and let the world burn

[cleofus1]

93. why is is greenies and fundies

both use these end of the world scenerios? if you don't do what i say the world will end and we will all die?
very disturbing premise...if i don't follow greenie law then my family will all die...in flames no less...

i think i'll pass...

[Name removed]

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[cleofus1]

100. i tried not to say "you"

i said greenies...maybe that is why "your" post was deleted...just pointing out the similarities in the philosophy...i do know many environmentalists that are not greenies...once again this end of the world scenerio leaves me cold...
i do support hybred cars and solar panels and recycling etc...but greeenies who dance on hunters graves seem to me to be another type of animal...

[WhollyHeretic]

101. I never said one bad thing about the hunter who died.

You also seem to think that I'm a member of the green party, something else I never said. I am not a member of the green party. I never even condemned all hunters, just those that hunt just for fun.
You also seem to have a post deleted so....glass houses and all that jazz.

[Name removed]

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[misanthrope]

85. If it were truly a test of skill...

...or sport, then you would only be hunting with weapons made by your own hand, not something you bought. THAT'S a test of skill.

[Name removed]

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[Briarius]

61. wow, this thread is depressing

This is a horrible thing for this guy's family and some of you are almost celebrating. You should be ashamed! This is a person, loved by someone, depended on by someone, who is dead. Can you imagine if this happened to someone you loved and then people made comments like the one's above.
Come on people, show some respect. We're better than this.

[Dave Reynolds]

63. Kinda sad, isn't it?

The same kind of mindset exists elsewhere.

There is a parallel:

PETAns celebrating hunters who are killed, and fundies celebrating abortion doctors who are killed.

Very sad to see here.

[flvegan]

65. HEY!!!!!!

Don't you dare. Don't you fucking dare lump anyone into a "PETAns" group celebrating anything. I posted one of the very first non happy for hurt hunter posts in the thread. I take offense to your broad brush stroking of animal rights folks into some stupid, silly little group. Grow up. When it fits, fine. It doesn't here. PETA has nothing to do with the thread so leaving it alone would be appropriate.

What's sad to see here is the knee-jerk response from posters carrying an agenda.

[Dave Reynolds]

67. Whoops, my bad.

I should not lump. Bad habit of mine, actually.

[Rabrrrrrr]

66. I find it disgusting

[Wickerman]

64. nicely put

thank you.

:toast:

[kodi]

80. i stopped deer hunting the day i got shot at in the woods

some son of a bitch shot near me and a buddy while we were tracking a deer in a deep ravine. and the shots came from the ridge above us. how two guys dressed in orange vests and hats could be mistaken for a deer is beyond me. the first shot tore apart a tree within 10 feet of my buddy who started screaming that we were there, yet another shot went off from the same place on that ridge. if we could have caught the guy we would have killed him on the spot.

i dont hunt anymore because of the stupid, drunk fuckers who go out and shoot at anything that moves.

[cleofus1]

84. thank god you didn't get shot....

becouse if you did apparently lots of people here would throw a party...

and you know what really pisses me off? my art threads sink like stones...but this stupid bear story really is racking up the replies...

and...my apologies to anyone that i may have been rude to here...you have a right to your opinion...

so when the world does end...how the heck are you gonna feed yerself?

[Dave Reynolds]

90. They will grow their own tofu?

The anti-hunters will, I am sure, stand by their principles and gladly starve to death as to not victimize a poor creature. Or, given the disregard to human life, turn cannibal.

[cleofus1]

91. wow

this is almost like GD! what have i done...hopefull this thread will get locked soon...too many personal inuslt...i think even i have been a little too vitriolic...i did start off this thread with a sense of sensibility...but boy is it hard to maintain...sorry

[Zenlitened]

92. Isn't the guide at fault here, not the hunter/client?

I've been on a hunting trip exactly ONCE in my life -- when I was too young to be permitted to carry a gun, just allowed to take a few supervised shots at an old tree stump -- and even I know that you never pull the trigger when there is someone in front of you nearby. You just don't do it, not for any reason. :(

[cleofus1]

94. although not intentional

it is the assistant guides fault...he'l probobly be having nightmares about this the rest of his life....

[cleofus1]

99. well i have to take a nap

so i will do the obvious thing a Narcissus like me would do and post one of my latest cgi



even though i'm an atheist i'll say a prayer for the dead hunter and the bear...may they both rest in peace :)

[TheMightyFavog]

102. Locking.

Per cleofus1's request.