Question for those with teen aged kids - regarding tutoring (long story)

[KitchenWitch]

My son, who is very bright, and does very well on standardized tests (90+ percentile), struggles a little bit academically, in part due to lack of organization, and in part due to lack of interest.

Long story short, I took him to one of those "learning centers" to have him assessed, and we had the meeting today to go over the scores. They wanted me to sign up for 200 hours of tutoring at a pricetag of nearly $7,000. Needless to say, I did not sign him up, and let the woman there know that it was highway robbery.

He showed weaknesses (according to this woman) in his reading speed, his reading comprehension, and his basic math skills (without a calculator, which they have been able to use since 5th grade). In addition, I know for a fact that he needs to learn basic study skills. I am meeting with his high school counselor on Monday for another reason, and am going to ask her what resources are available to me through the school system, and what resources outside she might recommend.

Are there any strategies other parents have used to deal with bright children who are academic underachievers?

[KitchenWitch]

1. Oh and suffice to say

Both my son and I were in tears when we were discussing this today.

[madeline_con]

4. maybe he needs a study area makeover...

as dumb as it may sound, or some office stuff, folders or whatever, that help categorize and make the tasks less daunting by removing the "get it all straight" factor. (???)

[madeline_con]

2. Sounds like crap....

The 3 items she listed are always the catch-all things blamed for everything.

There should be a program on campus for kids to brush up on weak areas, without the parent(s) having to spend any money. OR, there should be private tutors who will work for way less a couple of days a week.

BTW, of course your kid's got "weaknesses" according to the "learning center". They're in it for the bucks. I had no clue how MANY bucks till now! Thanks for the heads up!

[KitchenWitch]

5. I was so fucking shocked

I figured that he would get like 10-20 hours of tutoring at around $40 an hour (I believe that is all he needs).

I remained tactful with the woman, despite wanting to go berserk on her. I told her that if I wanted to send my son to private school, I would, and that is where that kind of money would go.

[Whoa_Nelly]

3. Do you have a local university?

When I was attending college to earn my teaching degrees, I also participated in tutoring kids of all ages, and actually had several ages 13-17. I was successful in giving kids a boost, and the program I was involved with was a good one.

I agree with you re: the cost these people are asking; you may as well be paying for hiim to go to a private school fulltime for a half year or so.

Good luck!

[KitchenWitch]

6. I will check into that.

I do know that there is a good private college nearby that is known for its elementary and secondary education program, and my husband happens to be an alumni of that college. Thanks for the idea!

[Wetzelbill]

28. I was going to say the same thing

get a college kid to help him out.

Pay attention to him and really assert your interest in his studies. I was very similar to your son. I was an academic underachiever extraordinaire. I found schoolwork easy, boring and tedious. I never was pushed to do it. Be very involved and encouraging.

Also, find something he's interested in. Let him learn about other things in his spare time. A hobby. I was a reader and a writer. I literally wrote several books of poetry, I averaged about one book a year for five years, from the time I was 18 to 23. Before that I was bored with anything academic in the organized realm. If you allow your son to learn about something interesting on his own, it will help his other learning skills too. He'll be more diligent about it. That's what happened with me anyway.

[WCGreen]

7. Fuck that noise....

Get a retired teacher to help him out for fifteen or twenty bucks and hour...

Those learning centers are, as MC said so eloquently, out to separate you from your money......

Standard cookie cutter shit .....

Mc Tutoring.....

[KitchenWitch]

12. That is what I was thinking when I left there today

I had an interesting conversation with my son, after the meeting. He is just entering his freshman year in HS, and has not had much for World History yet, and one of the "reading passages" was this three paragraph blurb about one friend keeping another friend from committing suicide. The suicidal friend happened to be named Napoleon (whom my son had heard of but had not had the whole history behind him). This passage only covered the suicide bit, and one of the questions asked how the non-suicidal friend changed world history. My son, not having the whole background did not know, so he got docked for it.

There is a special place in hell for people who scam others.

[rockymountaindem]

20. That's a totally bogus history question.

As a history buff, college history major and recent high school grad, lemme tell ya that the state of humanities studies is dismal.

I had both very very good and very bad teachers. The good ones really picked up on the kids that were interested and moreover everybody made some progress. The bad ones either preached their own views (one would probably be a Freeper if she knew how to use a computer), showed endless videos or just told us to read from the textbook.

The freep once referred to the Battle of Jutland as a land battle between Russia and Germany, when in fact it was a naval battle between Germany and Britain. I tried to correct her, and she made up some bullshit about "maybe that was another battle of Jutland" and practically defied me in front of everybody to prove her wrong; which I did the very next day.

I guess just reading about the most amazing events in history or learning the record of the human race just isn't engaging enough... students have to fantasize about it and then lose points on the test when they don't know what the hell really happened.

I'm sorry for you and your son.

[SW FL Dem]

13. Unfortunately, most current and retired teachers in my area

charge 50 bucks an hour or more.

[WCGreen]

14. YEa, but still....

Yo could find college age kid to tutor for that much....

And you tell them it's under the table...

[Spinzonner]

8. What is he interested in

or better yet, impassioned by ?

If he can find the motivation and has the intelligence - as the test scores suggest - then together they can take care of the problem assuming there isn't some systematic learning disability.

So, maybe you can focus on finding a reason for him to fix his own problem rather than an external fix.

This is not a criticism of either him or you. Sometimes very intelligent kids can be bored by the education or subject matter they are provided.

[LynzM]

31. Same thought here

It sounds almost more like he's bored than actually having trouble, perhaps?

[friesianrider]

9. Don't expect the guidance counselor to be much help.

Mine told me that "frankly, I'd be shocked if ANY college accepted you." I went on to get scholarships from ALL the colleges I applied to, and three of which were pretty selective.

He didn't help me one ioda when I needed help with school, college choices, or whatever. He was discouraging, rude, and misinformed.

HS and college counselors aren't worth much. You'd do best to hire a private tutor rather than a learning center.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

33. Ditto

Mine caused all sorts of problems because he misspelled my name when completing documentation for colleges. This same guy did not know enough about disability regulations in our state to realize that my brother could attend college FOR FREE as long as he maintained a certain GPA. Bro only found out when he went to orientation right before the start of school, because his athletic department advisor knew.

[evlbstrd]

10. I have a similar problem with my son.

Part of it I chalk up to his age (15). It's a complete lack of effort.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

11. Most schools have peer tutoring or study skills classes

Just talk to the counselors...

[sakabatou]

15. My mom got a prety good teacher (stanford student)

for $60 a week for 10 months.

[madmom]

16. Have the school test your son for a .....

learning disability.My daughter was having the same problems, she was an excellent student except math, high grades in every thing honors english even.They could not figure out why she was so good at every thing else except math barely passed mandatory test for graduation. The school psychologist suggested checking for a learning disability and since we were all at a lose for anything else we said so why not.Turns out she had some kind of disability as far as numbers where concerned. She was given special circumstances for the rest of high school and through college because of it( able to use calculator, even on test, able to have algebraic tables and equations on note cards for reference, stuff like that to help her out). She also had very poor organizational skills,and short attention span, it seemed too help in this area also (self esteem?)Could be similar situation.

[Fleshdancer]

17. Go with your instincts....

Disclaimer: My child entered kindergarten four days ago so my advice doesn't come from personal experience.

I noticed from your profile that you're in the Twin Cities.

I lived there for a while and I know for a fact that you have a number of wonderful Universities at your (possible) disposal.

If I were you, I would contact the education programs at the various Universities and either hire a Grad student to tutor or a PhD student to test/help. If they can't help directly, ask for a recommendation.

If that doesn't work, ask the school district directly.

If that doesn't work, harass the Principle.

If that doesn't work, tell everyone and anyone that the school and district aren't helping. :) Your son is worth it.

[KitchenWitch]

18. Thank you everyone for your good ideas and encouragement

I walked out of there feeling pretty overwhelmed.

[LeftyMom]

19. Those chain tutoring places suck anyhow

My stepdaughter has gone to one for a couple of years now (not what I wanted at all, but her mother is not one to listen to others) and neither her grades or her math skills (which are abysmal) have improved.

It cracks me up, her mother bitches about the price all the time and keeps trying to get us to pitch in (she can waste her own money, thankyouverymuch) and meanwhile there's a nice private college with a teacher's program full of potential tutors maybe five blocks from thier house. So what does she do? She drives the kid 40 miles round trip to the McTutor twice a week and bitches about the cost.

Okay, I think I've gone way off on the LeftyDad's ex is an idiot tangent, so I'll return to my point: generally a private tutor is cheaper and more effective. I don't know how much tutoring can do to solve lack of organization or interest. Perhaps he's insufficiently challenged? Maybe he'd do better in another program or a different learning enviornment?

Just thoughts I'm throwing out there. I was somewhat similar in terms of the high ability and test scores coupled with low performance in school. In my case it was mostly two things:

-I was bored
-I had no patience for busywork

When changes could be made to get me into classes that met my needs better (high-level discussions, creative and thought-provoking assignments) I did really well in school.

So my priorites, were this my kid, would be to look into an alternate program first, some sort of enrichment activity coupled with his existing classes second and the tutoring third (unless your son thinks he needs it, then I'd try that along with one of the first two.)

[KitchenWitch]

22. Bingo

You nailed it on the head...I do believe he is bored, and the no patience for busywork - HELLO, that fits him to a T.

I do think he needs a little tutoring in reading, but not 200 hours worth.

Question: I got a packet from the McTutor that kind of spelled out what his "needs" are, do I bring that along to the counselor's office?

[LeftyMom]

27. If you think it reflects his needs and capabilities

(probably not, or you would've skipped the quotes) it might be good to have documentation in educationese to back up your opinion. On the other hand if you're trying to address the boredom issue and see about gifted classes or a magnet school or something it'd probably confuse the issue. If you go in with papers that say he needs seven thousand dollars worth of tutoring and then you say he needs more difficult classes the counselor may have a hard time reconciling the two needs.

I think your opinion and previous teachers' evaluations should be more useful. Try to ask around with other parents and any teachers you're on good terms with to find out what's available, then you can go to the meeting informed and maybe with a plan in mind. It's much easier if you know what to ask for.

[SheilaT]

21. Hmmm. Very bright son who

struggles academically, lack of organization. Boy, does this sound familiar!

I have two sons, now 18 and 22. The oldest was diagnosed as ADD and had absolutely NO organizational skills. He was (is) phenomenally bright but struggled academically all the way through school. Eventually, half way through his senior year of high school, I figured out that he has Asperger's Syndrome (google it and you'll find a wealth of information). He flunked out of his first college because I didn't realize how much support he would need to succeed at that level. He's now in a mechanical engineering program at a state university and doing well, although he'll never really be "normal".

The younger one pretty much tuned out part way through high school and had terrible grades and nothing I did or said motivated him. We got tutoring to get him through certain math and science classes. He's just started college and we're keeping our fingers crossed that he'll make it through.

Good tutoring, usually former teachers or ones who moonlight as tutors, are out there. Don't waste a penny on the "learning center". They're really only interested in maximizing their profits, not necessarily what will be best for your son.

There are federal laws in place that should require your public schools to test your son and determine exactly what kind of educational program is best for him.

Ever since my oldest started kindergarten I've been driven crazy by the lock-step assumptions of conventional schools. Consider home schooling. Unfortunately, there's this notion (especially on this board) that home schoolers are all religious fanatics, but in reality most of those who home school do it because they feel it's best for their kid. If nothing else, serious consideration of homeschooling will make you think carefully about the public school and what they offer.

Good luck. Remember that no one within the system will care as much for your child as you do, and be prepared to do battle on his behalf.

[NNadir]

23. My son is dyslexic; New Jersey doesn't recognize dyslexia.

If you go on a dyslexia website and run through a check list of twenty "symptoms" my son comes out with 17 or 18.

This is a boy whose first kindergarten project was building a circuit and explaining the operation of a diode. Now, when he's entering 5th grade, his mother and I simply hope he doesn't have a nervous breakdown because he has to work 5 times as long as everyone else just to finish his homework.

He's a very good boy, polite, intelligent, kind, gracious, hard working, gentle and very bright, but - just like they tell you when you read about dyslexia - his academic elementary school has been a litany of (unnecessary) pain and struggle.

They have "offered" us ADD, AHDD, Asperger's syndrome (pretty crazy), autism. Each time we've been to the school, I've used there own testing to show that he is dyslexic. They don't get it. New Jersey apparently doesn't have any program that acknowledges dyslexia as a syndrome.

It's a genetic syndrome for crying out loud! My brother has it, my sister-in-law has it, my uncle had it, my grandfather had it. It's not even that rare. Hell, everybody on the planet has pretty much heard of it.

New Jersey: Nope, it doesn't exist.

The school did one thing for my son that I was always be grateful for though. In the third grade they gave him a tough but very competent reading teacher, in a special reading class. Up until that point we had lost all hope that our boy would ever read. She didn't bother with whether or not he had dyslexia, pretty much even refusing to discuss the subject, but, one way or another, she did get him to read. It's still a huge labor for that boy, but he can do it.

I will hold this teacher in the highest esteem for the rest of my life.

[KitchenWitch]

29. That is unbelieveable

Dyslexia was a diagnosis back when I was in elementary school (suffice to say, that was quite a while ago).

[tjwmason]

34. What the f***

I was diagnosed as being dyslexic when I was 16, the school gave me extra special tuition (which aided me dramatically) - I was given an allowance of extra time in my exams both at school and at university, and had a computer bought for me. I wasn't even overly severe either.

Not a ****ing condition????????????????????

:banghead:

I know that here in the U.K. it's distinctly under-recognised, but it's pretty damn obvious that it exists.

Oh, and best of luck to your son. I'm living proof that it can be over-come. :hi:

[NNadir]

36. Thanks. My boy's case is also relatively mild, but frustrating

nonetheless.

I have no doubt that he will succeed, but it's troubling that there has had to be so much unnecessary struggle.

[Sgent]

24. You may want to think about

getting an IEP (from the school). If he's in the upper 2%, and not performing up to his potential -- for a learning disability reason, your local high school will have to provide the assistance. This could include tutoring, additional coursework which is more interesting, etc.

[nickgutierrez]

25. Let him find something that interests him

Your kid sounds an awful lot like me when I was in high school. The problem may just be that school is too simple, and he needs a hobby to keep him interested. That would explain everything you listed except for the problem with basic math skills, and even that, as you noted, can be explained by the constant calculator access.

And, by the way, when he finds that hobby, don't be surprised to see him change it frequently. If he's anything like me, it won't last for more than a couple of months at a time (I'm hugely scatterbrained about things like this).

[KitchenWitch]

26. What was strange was he did well on the fractions and decimals

but it was the long division of multi digit numerators and divisors, and the multiplication of two multi digit numbers that he did poorly at.

If he can do fractions and decimals, I believe it is just a calculator dependence problem...now that I think about it.

He is very interested in music, has taught himself how to play piano and guitar. I am getting him either piano or guitar lessons this year to further his progress. He also plays trombone.

[uppityperson]

32. Sounds like my son too, great with relationships, bored easily

Art, music, math, all these are relationship things, how do things relate to each other, puzzle solving skills. People who excell at this type stuff frequently seem to get bored easily, have little patience for repetitive busywork. Converse is true also. Unfortunately places like schools are able to deal better with the sitting quietly doing busywork people due to various factors (like not having the time or resources available to deal with the others), so our kids do not excell gradewise.

He might get interested in 1 thing and stick with it, or he might jump from obsession to obsession as mine did. However, now, at 17, I can look back and see that almost everything that he was interested in enough to pursue fall in the category of relationships. Math-how do numbers and things relate. Music-how do tones and rhythms relate. Photography, art, dance, acting, physics, wordplay, puzzles, all how do things relate to each other. He also has a large group of friends and larger group of acquaintences who he cares about dearly, is very empathetic towards people, animals, the world. As 1 teacher put it, he is in the group that does not get the best grades but make the best students because they are busy, active and engaged.

Hang in there, sounds like you are doing fine. It is tough having one of these kids, but keep working with him, being his advocate, and it pays off in the long run. They are wonderful humane people.

[Merrick]

30. There are some organizations that offer free tutoring

Operation Jump Start is one (head start for younger). I tutor HS kids in chemistry and biology through them once a week. Course it seems, around here anyway, that there are more kids than there are tutors. Guess it would depend on your area. I think there are some other similar orgs out there. dont know if you have to prove financial need, though.

[tjwmason]

35. Is there a genuine underlying issue?

Your son sounds very similar to the position I was in - though underachiever is difficult to define as I was already at a very high level (e.g., at a Grammar School).

I was diagnosed dyslexic (can I just wonder opennly whether it was a dyslexic who chose that spelling? it's just so silly) during my A levels - it's likely that there's a slight dash of several other issues in there too.

If this is the case then you should know where to focus your assistance.

Good luck to you both. :hi: