The Matrix Revolutions (some SPOILERS)

[Terwilliger]

...sucked!

I was exceedingly bored...by the battle scenes, by the dialogue, and felt completely confused by the end of the picture. I was happy it ended, though.

I can only hope that the third Lord of the Rings movie is just as good as the first two.

Wachowski Brothers! If you're reading...next time....THINK THROUGH YOUR SEQUELS!

BTW: Bruce Spence from Road Warrior? This guy looks just like he used to!

OnEdit: Bruce Spence...thanks Sagan

[La_Serpiente]

1. Are the Wachowski Brothers Jewish?

I know they were mentioning Zion and all...but that kid was fricking happy to see it when they defeated the machines. I hope they didn't have a Zionist bent when they made the film.

[Terwilliger]

6. Zion...a definition from dictionary.com

3. An idealized, harmonious community; utopia.

[Sagan]

2. Bruce Morton?

I don't see the name in the credits...

On edit:

you mean Bruce SPENCE... I've always loved his work. Great quirky actor.

[Terwilliger]

4. he was the Trainman

who kept Neo in that all-white subway station

[Terwilliger]

5. oops! thanks

[PNHDoug]

10. My opinion...about the franchise

Hi there...first time poster.

Honestly, I liked Revolutions (and after a couple of viewings, Reloaded grew on me as well). I thought it fit in nicely with the whole series, and my wife and I have been having great discussions about the franchise as a whole, especially the ending.

I know that there are a LOT of people that have been saying that the first one is infinitely better than the sequels. I had a chance yesterday to watch the original, and quite frankly, it's not that much better than Reloaded or Revolutions.

Keep this in mind...I absolutely love the first movie. I thought it was kick-ass the first time I watched it, and I still believe so today. However, this time I watched it with the critical eye that others have been using on the sequels, and I honestly have to say that the acting and parts of the plot were just as thin as the plot-points critiqued in the others. The only exceptions to the acting problems in the franchise were that of Lawrence Fishburne and Hugo Weaving, in my opinion.

For example, I never heard one person complain that after Neo was shot dead in the first movie, all Trinity needed to do to bring him back to life was to say "I love you" and kiss him. I found it to be pretty hokey and a cop-out way to make him officially "The One," but no one else seemed to think so.

The thing, I believe, that sets the first movie apart from the sequels is the element of surprise. You didn't know what the Matrix was in the first movie, so in essence it was a grand introduction into the world that the Wachowski brothers created. Once you take the element of surprise away from the first movie, what you're left with is a sci-fi kung-fu flick with passable dialogue and plot, and the start of an emerging philosophy the creators want you to ponder. The sequels are the first movie without that element of surprise -- science fiction, kung-fu, and more of the Wachowski's philosophy layed out for you to accept or reject.

Perhaps that is why I didn't have as much of a problem with the sequels as others have had...because as cool as the first movie was, it was still flawed in many ways. So I guess the flaws weren't as noticible to me in Reloaded and Revolutions as it has been with others.

Regards,
Doug Hills
Place Name Here Comics

Edit: BTW, sorry...this should have been the start of it's own mini-thread, but I guess I hit the wrong reply link. :)

[RedSox02]

3. It was better than the second

I think the trilogy was ruined by the second installment, however, I did at least enjoy this one and thought it was close to being as good as the first one. However, it was hurt by the fact that ithad to spend a great deal of time just cleaning up the mess in the plot caused by "Reloaded". It does a pretty good job of this, however I just wish they could go back and do the second one over. This series just took too drastic a turn after the first installment. I didn't think the action scenes were all that bad in part 3, but they just sucked in Reloaded.

[Terwilliger]

7. it wasn't as much that they were bad, but they were overwhelming

there was so much onscreen business that I felt disconnected from the consequences of the battle

and the storyline sucked...really...it was a mess

And how the frell did Neo NOT realie that Bane was Smith...how could he not know after a few seconds?

[RedSox02]

9. My other problems

Your right about Neo not being able to realize it was Smith. The other problem I had was why was Neo able to see certain things in "The Real World". For example after he was blinded, he sees in a sort of "Matrix view", only this time in an orange-like tint. Also, they didn't really explain how he could sense and manipulate the Sentinals, and blow up some of the machines on his way to the machine city. I guess we are supposed to believe he was some sort of God. How could the oracle, or anyone for that matter suddenly give him the power to destroy things in the real world.

I didn't have much problem with the ending though. I could follow it.

[7th_Sephiroth]

12. i think he blew them up

by acessing thier matrix ports

[PNHDoug]

13. Neo's "vision"

What I understood from the movie was that while Neo didn't go into the Source, as he was supposed to do, he did touch it in a way during his time with the Architect. So, it was because of this, he now had a connection to the machines. This allowed him to see the source/power/whatever it was that was inside the machines (after he was blinded), and allowed him to screw up the electronics of the sentinels at the end of Reloaded, and as he was heading to the Machine City.

Regards,
Doug Hills
Place Name Here Comics

[Hell Hath No Fury]

15. Not a "god" but...

a Buddha.

As he had discovered that the "reality" of the Matrix was an illusion that could be overcome and manipulated, he discovered that the REAL world was just as illusionary and could also be transended. He was able to see the Matrix in its' real form of "code" and the real world its' form of pure energy.

Physics tells us that there is more space than matter -- an advanced avatar who understood the true reality of our world would say that one could control/manipulate that space/matter.

Neo was just transending the "real" world and seeing it/experiencing it/creating is as it really is.

[donotpassgo]

18. I like that explanation...It seems to make the most sense to me.

rather than the silly idea that the real world was just more programming.

[Brian Sweat]

29. The "Real World" is really just another Matrix.

The clues are all there. They keep telling you that the matrix is actually the second matrix. They originally built another matrix that was a Utopia (Zion), but the humans hated it so they had to build the second one. They built the second matrix within the first matrix. This is why Neo and Smith are able to go back and forth. On both levels everything is just software.

The first matrix started at the garden of Eden. The humans soon learned to hate the first matrix (they ate from the tree of knowledge) because they had not choices. So the machines created the second matrix, to give the humans the illusion of choice. Those humans who become disatisfied with the second matrix are allowed to exit it and function in the first matrix where they think they are fighting a war against the machine. When the humans get too powerful, the machines "kill" them all and reboot the second matrix.

[PNHDoug]

11. Bane

I guess it was inconceivable to Neo that a program, especially Smith, could take over a human body like he did with Bane.

I got the impression that Neo didn't understand what Bane was saying until he paid close attention to *what* Bane was saying, then the confusion turned to disbelief.

[FDRrocks]

16. Superman syndrome....

Slap a goatee on Smith and no one recognizes him.

[youngred]

21. it wasn't the same actor

just the same speech pattern. You expect him to notice that, especially when he already knew Bane beforehand?

[donotpassgo]

25. Its called dramatic Irony...

When you know something the characters don't. Leaping from the Matrix into the real world is never done so it's harder for Neo to recognize and accept that. Also, Neo didn't KNOW Bane, and he wasn't there at his interrogation.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

8. What confused you about the ending???

I keep hearing that, but I really don't know what folks are talking about. Help me out here, Terwil!

[Terwilliger]

17. who the hell was the Oracle?

why was she part of Smith (or, taken over) then she wasn't?

what exactly did Neo do that defeated SMith? Why?

What significance was the little girl? How did she arrange the sunset for Neo?

I guess I'd have to see it again to sort it all out, but I was highly disappointed.

[FDRrocks]

19. I thought the little girl

was just at tool for the story. It seemed clear to me that Smith got cocky, and that trying to convert people with special abilities like the Oracle or Neo just didn't work. Like Smith foresaw his own defeat, with the Oracles powers. Ah whatever. Trying to figure out these movies gives me a headache.

[donotpassgo]

20. a couple of answers

Smith took over the entire Matrix. He reprogrammed everyone to be Smith. That's why he was so powerful. He had everyones programmking in him, even Neo.

Neo allowed the inevitable, for him to be taken over by Smith. It was this act that allowed The Source(?) to infect Smith and destroy him. In the first Matrix, Smith tells Morpheus that humans are a virus and that's what Neo eventually becomes in the Matrix.

[Terwilliger]

23. ok

that's better than it came across to me in the movie

So Neo was given a specific virus? How did Neo convince the machines to end the war?

[donotpassgo]

24. Neo WAS the virus.

He took that leap of faith and allowed himself to be turned into a Smith. Once absorbed, the machine Source guy put the virus through Neo infecting everyone Smith had absorbed himself.

Smith was more dangerous to the machines because he was too powerful to be stopped by anyone or anything other than Neo. Neo promised to stop Smith in exchange for a truce with the Humans.

[youngred]

22. She was the black woman

her previous incarnation was killed by Smith (but not incorporated into the Smiths). The new oracle was then absorbed by the Smiths, which gave him "the sight".

Neo killed Smith because Smith could not incorporate Neo, but I'm not sure why.

The little girl is a program, just another of the orphans that the oracle protects. As a program she wrote the sunset.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

26. Here goes...

What I think was going on...

<why was she part of Smith (or, taken over) then she wasn't?>

She allowed herself to be taken over by him so she could help in his destruction. She (like Neo) was unable to do so by attacking him directly, but by allowing herslf to be absorbed, she was then able to effect him from within. She was gambling that this would be the way to destroy him.

<what exactly did Neo do that defeated Smith? Why?>

Neo did the same thing as the Oracle -- allowed himself to be absorbed by Smith so he could be "in" him and ultimately destroy him, my feel is from Neo acting as a sort of virus/energy and infecting/manipulating/overloading Smith's programming. Remember the scene with Frenchie in the first Matrix? In the restaurant where he gives the female customer a piece of dessert that, once it (the program) enters her, impacts her? I think it was the same thing with the Oracle and Neo.

<What significance was the little girl? How did she arrange the sunset for Neo?>

I think the little girl was a representation of where the machines were heading. Programs that didn't have a "purpose" were normally deleted by the machines, but her parents/progams "loved" her enough to make sure she survived -- I think that was very new concept to the machines, one that could mark a big step in their "evolution".

As for the sunset, it was a program showing empathy for a human being, another stretch for the machines. With the exception of the Oracle, empathy seemed to be in very short supply with.

I guess it's a long way around saying the little girl program was the beginnings of the machines gaining an emotional life, that might make them better able to live harmoniously with humans.

[Terwilliger]

27. thanks

it all starts to make more sense now (I could have used this thread during the movie ;-) )

OK...I'm starting to see that. The Oracle was swallowed up by Smith, but the Oracle did say to Neo earlier that Smith was kind of an anti-Neo, so Smith's overwriting of him caused Smith (namely his destruction)

I had thought that the girl was special because she was the "daughter" of the other program, but I was confused by the Matrix displaying "her" sunset...couldn't figure out how the girl controlled it.

btw...that scene with the Maravingian (spelling?) was from Reloaded

Thanks again, Hell. :hi:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

28. There might be...

a whole heck of a lot more to know about the girl and what happened in general from the anime and games -- I was reading some pretty deep stuff online about how much of the subtext/workings are covered in depth in the film adjuncts.

As for her being able to create a sunset -- the Oracle had been surrounded by kids/programs? who were already manipulating the Matrix (the spoon, the building blocks) -- maybe SHE was really "the one". ;)

And of course, I could be full of poop.

[CatWoman]

14. It didn't do as well at the box office as the others as well

Nov. 10, 2003 | LOS ANGELES (AP) -- The sci-fi Matrix saga lost some of its spin at the U.S. box office, with "The Matrix Revolutions" pulling in $50.16 million in its opening weekend -- off 45 percent from the previous chapter's weekend debut.

http://salon.com/news/wire/2003/11/10/matrix/index.html