November 11, 1918

[Zuni]

At 11 AM, on November 11, 1918 WWI finally ended. The fighting continued right up until 11 AM. The US Army was in combat and several divisions were driving on a bridge thet wanted to hold in case Germany renegged on their agreement to end the war.
Two days before Kaiser Wilhelm II abdicated and fled to Spa in Holland. Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire had recently collapsed, and the germany Army had been beaten back at Amiens by the British, by The French, and by the Americans in the Argonne.
Across Germany, small groups of Communists were convincing shell shocked and weary German soldiers to rebel. The german Naval Base at Kiel went 'Red'.
Adolf Hitler was in a hospital in Eastern Prussia when the news reached him. He was blinded due to exposure to poisoned gas. When he heard of the surrender, and the mutinies, and the fact that Germany was now led by Social Democrats, he decided that Germany hadn't been beaten but had been stabbed in the back by traitors, Jews and communists.
But on that morning, 11th November, the guns finally fell silent. A group of British soldiers had been attacking a machine gun nest. At 11 am, the german machine gunner stood up, bowed and walked away.
American cannon fired the last artillery shell, at 10:59.
The last soldier killed was a Canadian shot by a German sniper at 10:59.
Witnesses of that moment of 11 AM say it was surreal, almost magical. A war that killed over 10 million young men was finally over.
Huge celebrations broke out in Paris, london, new York.

The day became known as Armistice day. Every nation has interred unknown soldiers on the anniversary of the Armistice.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

1. My great-grandad was killed at 8am.

What can you say.

[Zuni]

5. That is very sad

I always felt really bad about the poor kids who were the last to die in a war that is really already over.
Seems like they were the most pointless deaths of all.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

10. Yeah. It always struck me as suspicious.

He was a Company Sergeant Major in an Irish Regiment, so I'm not sure why he'd be at the front line at the time.

[JohnKleeb]

12. Irish eh?

Was he from the part that became the republic of. Thats said SLB it really is, he first off lost his life, just as the war ended, and he never got to see Ireland free, well in a way Ireland aint free still.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

17. CSM Padraig McAteer - Ulster Catholic

Doubly cursed there, I'm afraid.

[JohnKleeb]

20. oy

So sad. I am part Irish myself, I had a Czech relative who died with in a few months of the end of the pacific campaign in WWII.

[Zuni]

22. During WWI

Ulster was 9 counties, not 6. After the war, Britain held on to 6 of counties of Ulster.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

24. He was from Belfast, I believe, so British Ulster

[Zuni]

30. Belfast still is in the UK

so you are correct. Strangely, i met a guy from Ulster at a party with IRA tatoos this weekend. He was from South Armagh.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

31. Ask Hussar about that, that's bandit country, I believe.

[Zuni]

32. Yup

That is the Irish equivalent of the West bank or kashmir or Chechnya

[Zuni]

19. In the First World War

pretty much everyone was packed like Sardines into trenches at the front. Most likely a German shell happened to hit where he was standing---which was how over half the casualties occured in WWI.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

21. Not sure where a Company Sergeant Major would be in the line-up.

Any experts? They knew it was the last day of course. On the last couple of days of World War Two the officers held tight because they didn't want people to die for no reason. At the end of WWI, the British were advancing and were desperate to take as much land as possible before the armistice, in case it wasn't the end of the war.

[Zuni]

23. It depends where the company was

The seargeant major would most likely be near the Company HQ

[Screaming Lord Byron]

26. I guess if they were advancing, then he'd be in the line of fire.

[JohnKleeb]

11. Thats so sad

I always wondered about people like that you know, people who die on the closing days of wars. :(

[Bridget Burke]

37. Have you read Wilfred Owen?

Many consider him the best of the War poets. He'd been away from the front for some time under treatment for shell shock. Although he was totally disillusioned with the War, he volunteered to return. As an experienced officer--so many had been killed--he thought that his presence might enable more men survive.

He was killed November 4th, 1918.

www.hcu.ox.ac.uk/jtap/

[Zuni]

39. The movie 'Behind the Lines'

is about him and Siegfried Sassoon, another great WWI poet in the hospital during the war.

Both of them are among the great literary talents to come out of the war, which were many.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

42. Yeah. Him and Siegfried Sassoon

Ever seen the movie 'Regeneration' about Sassoon and Owen. I'm in it(for about 30 seconds)

[commander bunnypants]

2. Always wanted to be a flyer in the Great War

Glad I wasnt. But I have flown in models of WW1 planes. Do you know of The Christmas Truce of 1914?


DDQM

[Zuni]

6. The Christmas Truce

is one of the great stories of all time. It is sad to think the next day those guys just went back to killing each other again.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

14. Inspired a very touching Paul McCartney video - 'Pipes of Peace' I think

[commander bunnypants]

16. Weirdest thing aint it

Probably caused a lot of PTSD. But a beutiful story anywho

DDQM

[Zuni]

25. One of my favorite stories of all time

The fact that the carnage stopped and these one time enemies made friends seems so...surreal, but fantastic.

[denverbill]

3. The 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month.

9,000,000 dead. 9,000,000 people who were mostly just trying to survive. 9,000,000 people who really believed they were fighting for their country.

There died a myriad,
And of the best, among them,
For an old bitch gone in the teeth,
For a botched civilization,
Charm, smiling at the good mouth,
Quick eyes gone under earth's lid,

For two gross of broken statues,
For a few thousand battered books.

-- Ezra Pound, 1920

[Zuni]

7. Great post

thanks for that

[YellowRubberDuckie]

64. I cry every time I think about all the dead from all the wars...

And I cry because Smirk and Co. have made a mockery of all their deaths. My soul cries because there are boys and girls being killed even as we speak because some rich bastards want to get rich.
Duckie

[Superfly]

4. So that's how you spell "renegged"

The way some people say it, I thought it was an aspersion aimed at black people.

[alwynsw]

8. Thanks for the post

I lost a great great uncle during that war. Unfortunately, I never knew him.

[HERVEPA]

9. Check out song about one story during the truce

http://www.worldwar1.com/sfcitt.htm
.
.

Soon daylight stole upon us and France was France once more
With sad farewells we each prepared to settle back to war
But the question haunted every heart that lived that wonderous night
``Whose family have I fixed within my sights?''
'Twas Christmas in the trenches where the frost, so bitter hung
The frozen fields of France were warmed as songs of peace were sung
For the walls they'd kept between us to exact the work of war
Had been crumbled and were gone forevermore


My name is Francis Tolliver, in Liverpool I dwell
Each Christmas come since World War I, I've learned its lessons well
That the ones who call the shots won't be among the dead and lame
And on each end of the rifle we're the same

.
.
.


Also, check out everything about the author and singer, John McCutcheon

http://www.folkmusic.com/f_music.htm

[rasputin1952]

13. No one wishes to be a casualty in war...

This idea can be multiplied 10 fold at the end of hostilities; beyond the shadow of a doubt, no one wants to be the last person killed in a conflict.

The Great War destroyed 10 million military lives, untold civilian lives, and crushed families. It left millions without limbs, and was the first war where psychological problems were finally addressed in a realistic fashion.

By far, the worst aspect of The Great War, was setting up the future for WWII. The War to End All Wars, was not to live up to its name.

:grouphug: for vets, and those families that have been touched by war.

[alwynsw]

15. Notable WWI fact

James Bethel Gresham of Beech Grove, KY was the first American doughboy killed in WWI. (Or so is credited by history.)

I had the pleasure and privelige of growing up in the same farming community alongside his brothers and their decendants. James died leaving no heirs.

[Zuni]

27. I think he was killed in a trench raid

by German 'stosstruppen' in November 1917. I think several others were either killed or wounded with him.

[denverbill]

28. Either him or maybe Merle Hay of Glidden Iowa.

http://desmoinesregister.com/extras/iowans/hay.html

Most Iowans have heard of Merle Hay, but only cause there's a mall and major street named after him.

[Bridget Burke]

18. A magician I once knew.....

Did shows at old-folks homes. At one such, years ago, he made the acquaintance of a WWI vet. The old guy was quite a character & my friend visited several times before he passed away.

The vet was in a cafe in Paris on Armistice day, celebrating with his comrades. The War had surely been horrible, but they had ensured that it was the War to End War. Certainly, Mankind would not repeat the carnage.

They were interrupted by an evil cackle from an old man in the corner--a veteran of the Crimean War. He had a more jaundiced view of Mankind--one that proved all too correct before the century was half finished.

[Zuni]

29. A crimean war vet?

The Crimean war was fought in the 1850s! When did this event take place?

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

44. My GGF was a US civil war vet and lived until 1922

so it is entirely possible that Crimean War vets were around during WWI, especially since lots of them were young kids, 12, 13 for the Navy, 14,15 or so for many armies.

[Zuni]

46. But if the WWI vet was in an old folks home

that means he was old. The Crimean war vet would would never be in the same old folks home as a veteran of a war fought almost 70 years later

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

48. I see what you mean...yeah...

I thought he was talking about when he (the WWI) vet was young, no>?

[rasputin1952]

33. An article in a military magazine a few years back, had this sad story...

A couple was walking through a wooded area in France, and came across what looked like rusted spikes sticking out of the ground. They were aligned rather well, and there were some 20 of them. Upon closer inspection and a little digging, the couple went back into the town and notified authories of what they had found.

Excavation a little while later, produced 20+ bodies of French soldiers outfitted for battle. Most of the clothing and equipment was still there and intact, boards ran across the floor of a trench. At this location, a huge shell had exploded nearby, and the walls of the trench collapsed burying the soldiers alive. The rusty "spikes" were bayonets that had leaned up against the side of the trench, barely poking above the top of the position.

The trench was filled back in, those that were identified were reported to surviving family members, and a full military funeral was conducted at the sight.

In an instant, 20+ soldiers ceased to exist; their families left untold of their fate; and then were simply forgotten. Such are some of the horrors of war.

[Zuni]

34. At Verdun

there is a huge ossiuary that holds the bones of tens of thousands of unknown soldiers who simply ceased to exist there during the epic battle in 1916.

[JohnKleeb]

35. Ras you told me abuot that I remember

btw also I am gonna be writting an article on vets day, I am gonna use a pen name.

[rasputin1952]

59. BTW John, there was a story today in the paper...

Scripps/Howard stated that the VA says there are 44 WWI Doughboys left alive in the country, out of 4.7 million in 1918. There are also 2 left from the Mexican Expedition to try and get Pancho Villa in 1916. Sadly, by this time next year, there may be none left, and another generation will have passed into history.

:kick:

[Wickerman]

56. That is some sad stuff

and there are some mass graves just like that in Iraq from Gulf War I, where soldiers were buried alive by dozer blades on armoured tanks.

War is horrid, and this vet salutes those who gave all, each hoping that THIS war ended wars for all to come.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

36. My Granddad was on the USS Olympia

when she brought home the first unknown soldier.

[Zuni]

41. Very interesting

interred at Arlington in 1921, I believe.

[myrna minx]

38. Leningrad Cemetery, Winter of 1941

This is a different war altogether, but this is such a poignant poem all the same.



by Sharon Olds

That winter, the dead could not be buried.
The ground was frozen, the gravediggers weak from hunger,
the coffin wood used for fuel. So they were covered with something
and taken on a child's sled to the cemetery
in the sub-zero air. They lay on the soil,
some of them wrapped in dark cloth
bound with rope like the tree's ball of roots
when it waits to be planted; others wound in sheets,
their pale, gauze, tapered shapes
stiff as cocoons that will split down the center
when the new life inside is prepared;
but most lay like corpses, their coverings
coming undone, naked calves
hard as corded wood spilling
from under a cloak, a hand reaching out
with no sign of peace, wanting to come back
even to the bread made of glue and sawdust,
even to the icy winter, and the siege.

Sharon Olds <1979>

[Zuni]

40. 2 million died

in the 900 Day siege of leningrad during WWII.
The city never fell.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

43. The truth is that the Marines were so hung over, from their

bithday bash the night before, the Central Powers were afraid of what would happen on the 11th!

Happy Birthday Marine Corps.

[proud patriot]

45. My dad was telling me about this

It used to be called armistice day . Then it was changed to
Veterans day . It seems the armistice tradition was too
big on peace and ending war so they changed it .

Thanks for posting this people my age don't learn this stuff in
school .

[Zuni]

47. It is still Armistice Day

in many European Countries.
I wish i could see the Cenotaph in trafalgar Square in london, the memorial to the British Empire's 947,000 war dead.
Fittingly, General Haig's statue faces it. he has to look at the monument to the men whose lives were wasted by this real life Blackadder/Col. Blimp.

[Guaranteed]

49. Thank you, veterans...

Dad, Jim, Grandpa....:grouphug:

[Davis_X_Machina]

50. I get so mad...

...when I hear this 'cheese-eating surrender monkeys' crap and think of the Ossuaire at Verdun.

[Zuni]

53. Have you ever read

Alistair Horne's book on Verdun? The Price of Glory it is called. great book.

[Davis_X_Machina]

54. Mais oui, naturellement.

I've been pressing his Algeria book, A Savage War of Peace, to all and sundry who want to know how Iraq will turn out.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

57. Is that in print?

I don't see it anywhere.

[ulysses]

51. WWI gave birth to our world

All roads to the modern go through 1914-1918.

http://firstworldwar.com/

This site has neat vintage audio clips, for those interested.

Both my grandfathers served in France, maternal as an ambulance driver (I think) and paternal as captain of a machine gun company. I've wished for a long time that I'd have been born early enough to talk to them about their experiences.

For those interested in what it was like for the common soldiers, Lyn MacDonald's books are excellent. Most it seems are out of print (:grr: ) but excellent nonetheless.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=stripbooks&field-keywords=Lyn%20MacDonald&search-type=ss&bq=1/104-0690994-5942340

[Zuni]

52. I agree

WWII, the Russian revolution, the collapse of the British Empire and the Rise nof the US, along with the Great depression are all directly related to WWI

[ulysses]

55. the cultural change was huge, too

Don't know if you've read a book by Samuel Hynes titled A War Imagined, but it's worth the time if you can find it. Paul Fussell's Great War and Modern Memory is excellent too. You've probably seen both of these...

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

58. Don't forget the worst epidemic ever to visit man,

The Spanish Influenza.... up to 80million killed

[rasputin1952]

60. According to Scripps/Howard article in my town paper:...

there are 44 WWI veterans still alive as per the VA. This is out of 4.7 million in 1918, at the end of the war.

There are also 2 living veterans from the 1916 excursion into Mexico to try and get Pancho Villa. Those from the Spanish American war are all gone now, although I did actually meet one of them years ago on Long Island NY. I met him at a parade in Southold, and we had a couple of beers, then I took him out to Greenport, where he disembarked after being shipped home. He, and most of the rest of Roosevelt's Regiment stayed there because of Malaria. They damn near starved to death before NY got off it's dead butt and got them home. As usual, once the soldiers job was finished, they were basically forgotten. He had some great stories.

There is an A&E movie called "The Lost Battalion", which is somewhat accurate as to what happened to a NY Regiment in The great war. Major Whittlesly was awarded the MOH, and returned to practicing law in NYC. Later, he disappeared off the coast on a liner, with most believing it was a suicide.

It is important for people to realize that WWII was an extension of The Great War. There were a few GW vets that served during WWII, with MacArthur probably being the most famous, and Patton a close second.

The carnage that was The Great War, took a breather until Sept 1 1939, when Europe was once again thrown into war with Hitler's invasion of Poland. Contrary to popular belief, the French Army in WWII did not roll over and capitulate, but fought pretty well until they were cut off and outflanked. In essence, they were outfoxed.

I hope that everyone at DU takes a moment tomorrow to remember those that fought so hard and so bravely for this country when asked. As usual, I will go to cemetaries in the area to remember those that have passed on before me. I will take the time to straighten the flags that have blown over, and make sure that these heroes will not be forgotten. In the afternoon, I will go to the Vets home here in town and thank those who can no longer out to pay their respects to their comrades in arms. For all of the vets here in DU, and to their families, as a vet, I understand the sacrifices that were made, and I thank you one and all. It is because of the great patriotism and support of the American people, that this country is as great as it is.

On Wednesday, I will once again pick up and do all I can to get the present administration out of the WH. But tomorrow, I will remember WHY I am fighting so hard to get rid of the bush administration.

:grouphug: for the vets & their families!

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

61. Not sure, but that must be a state number...I will look into it more

but the VA hospital where I work has 6 GW vets in the nursing home, so the number must be a bit higher than that.

[rasputin1952]

62. Checked the story, and it says...

"US Dept of Veterans Affairs says there are only 44 Doughboys still alive with first hand memories of the real meaning of the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month of 1918".

this could be a misprint, and if your state has 6, you've probbaly got more than almost any of the others. In any case, if the lads were 17 when they enlisted, say in 1918, the last year of the war, that would still make the youngest one, 102, (or very close).

As an aside, last year I read that there were 3 Civil War widows receiving a pension from the service of their husbands. Some of these guys married in the early twentieth century, and some of those widows could be in their late 90's or just over 100.

I will research this also, as I don't like to put trash into the threads. Thanks for the heads up!

:kick:

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

63. I saw that too, but I can't find that number anywhere on the VA

sites.
Possibly that is the right number, who knows?
I just thought it sounded low for some reason.

[rasputin1952]

65. Agreed about the low # idea, ...

but considering the GW ended 85 years ago, those 44 probably consider themselves pretty lucky to have gotten this far.

:kick:

[Wickerman]

66. butting in on your thread here

enjoyed your posts and got to thinking about about those WWI numbers. Looked around a bit and found this site:

AMERICAN STATISTICAL DATA CONCERNING NUMBERS CAPTURED, REPATRIATED, AND STILL ALIVE

I've abbreviated the title, its actually a report on the numbers of Vets that were POWs. PREPARED FOR THE DVA ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON FORMER PRISONERS OF WAR MENTAL HEALTH STRATEGIC HEALTH CARE GROUP, VHA, DVA AMERICAN EX-PRISONERS OF WAR ASSOCIATION
BY CHARLES A STENGER, PH.D.

Its better in the .rtf file, but they have some great listings of all wars and for WWI vets still living, not just POW's:

VETERAN POPULATION AS OF SEPTEMBER 30, 2002
All Veterans: 25,625,000
Wartime Veterans Only: 19,161,000
War Veterans By Conflict
WWI (103) – (Less than 500 still alive)
WWII (81) 4,294,000 (387,731 deaths preceding 12 months, WWII service only).
Korea (70) 3,008,000 (149,278 deaths preceding 12 months, only Korean service).
Vietnam (56) 7,558,000 (80,489 deaths preceding 12 months, only Vietnam service).
Gulf WAR (36) 3,236,000 (4,845 deaths preceding 12 months, only Gulf War service

Grab the whole file - its worth a read.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

67. Not butting in at all, thank you I will read it

it might be what I was remembering.

[rasputin1952]

68. Thanks...never a butt in when where facts are concerned...

there are few things worse than getting caught on bad facts and figures. (One of the reasons I try to avoid posing #'s unless I am pretty damn sure they are right.

Will look into this, thanks for the link!

:kick: