I'm much in need of parenting karma

[blondeatlast]

My little gift from My Chosen Spiritual Divinity is getting out of control. 6 years old and he is refusing to go to school at times, kicking and hitting other kids and ME, arguing with me, dad, and his teacher.

I'm wearing the battle scars of pediatrician ordered lab tests (in an effort to diagnose the problem) but man, I've just about had it.

Marriage is showing strain, too, over this. Help me cope anyway you can--wit's end is visible just about there . . .

Edit: battle scars are 3 nasty wounds on my right shin from him kicking me (drew blood). Labs WERE done, though!

Edit 2: pathetic typing!

[wtmusic]

1. Mine are 7 and 8

Does he get time-outs for bad behavior? Is he treated with respect by his Dad and teacher?

Short of a chemical imbalance those are the only reasons I can think of for this sort of thing.

[blondeatlast]

2. Dad, very much so, teach, not so much.

We are considering sending him to another school in the same district where his cousins go.

[wtmusic]

4. I'd start by drawing the line with teach

I'm a firm believer that most problems in kids stem from a lack of self-respect, brought on by a lack of respect from adults.

If he doesn't want to go to school that tells me his teacher makes him feel bad. It has nothing to do with misbehaving. Kids know when they're misbehaving and I've never seen a kid hold a grudge for getting nailed when he knew he deserved it. It's from making fun of them or belittling them, and it shouldn't be tolerated at all.

What happened to him after he kicked you?

[blondeatlast]

5. More determined than ever--with the help of the lab people, he was

hauled off and by damn, they drew his blood!

[wtmusic]

7. No punishment beside that?

[GAspnes]

3. honestly, I don't know

As a father, I would very rarely use the 'pick him up and hold him off the floor until he nodded agreement' approach, but most of the problems I had with tantrums could be solved by ignoring the tantrum until he got tired of it, and then having him do what I wanted.

Across my four sons, these techniques had varying levels of success. Each child is different -- some really do have problems for which the tantrum is only a symptom. Others are just plain ornery.

[Pale_Rider]

6. Delayed terrible twos?

My four year old girl is just now getting her terrible twos. Stubborn behavior, selective hearing loss, temper tantrums complete with foot-stomping and occasional physical violence metted out to animate objects. So I might have only a fraction of the problem you are going through. Trust you been a loving parent that would never dream raining down holy terror on one's loved ones. (hmmmm?)

We've been dealing with her by using timeouts in her room where she can enjoy having a fit in the privacy of her room. Usually she calms down after 30 minutes or so and becomes friendly and human again. One thing I've come to realize is that you can't reason or rationalize with a four year old (or a similiarly cognitive 57 year old President) in the midst of a temper tantrum. Raining down holy terror only has minimal effect.

Hang on there ... and remember that there are other parents that are in the 18 year plan.

[blondeatlast]

9. Thanks--time outs are occasionally effective.

But when he really gets going, no one is safe--literally. Waiting for an evaluation from Psych-type.

The last thing I want is for him to go on meds, though.

[TrogL]

8. This sounds familiar

Have him tested for the autistic spectrum eg. Aspergers or PDD-NOS.

It won't show up in lab tests. It needs to be done by a qualified child psychologist with the proper training in Autistic Spectrum and Sensory Integration issues.

PM me for more information

[blondeatlast]

10. Hoping this will happen later this week.

Pediatrician just wanted to be sure it wasn't a medical problem first.

[populistmom]

19. This is what popped into my head too

I have taught 1st and 2nd graders in the past and I'm a mom times 4 (which I don't say a lot here because people just say "Oh My God you have how many kids?" like they did in Boston). Anyway, my oldest is a girl, but my boys are 8, 5, and 2, so I see boy behavior and we've had our share of conflicts, occasional tantrums, etc. but this seems a little out of my spectrum of experiences with my own children and it's does sounds like testing is appropriate here.
The only other thought I had was if this behavior was ongoing (like he was always like this but it's getting worse) or if it was something new. If it's new, I might worry that he could have gone through a traumatic experience that somehow you were unaware of.
I just hope you can find out the causes and your little boy can get what he needs. I didn't have much advice and if I at all sounded like an insensitive clod, forgive me.

:hug: because moms need hugs too :)

[WWW]

11. The $1 a day video

My daughter was never a problem, but my son was another story. When he had a good day, he got to go to the video store for a tape. Price: $1/day, My sanity priceless. I told him the video store didn't open until 5 p.m. I would put the video in while I made supper. He had to measure his actions all day to get to the video store. Lesson: there are consequences to every action and sometimes they are positive, sometimes they are negativte. Don't give in to the 5 p.m. timeline. If you have cable, cancel it. Also, some kids need to be spanked, I never liked it, I never did it, but he has to learn who is in charge. Sometimes you can't negotiate with little terrotist. :)
p.s. look at his sugar intake....some kids really can't handle any sugar at all, even in seemingly "healthy" cereals.

[cally]

12. First off, you and your husband need time to

yourself to keep your marriage together. It is so important!

Then get a book on logical consequences. I got a workbook type parenting book. My husband and I worked through a variety of scenarios and agreed on the consequences of a behavior. If he kicks you than he needs to be away from you or put the bandaid on you to deal with the wound. Make him bring you ice bags for every 10 minutes or so because your leg hurts bad. Have him do it the next day too so he starts understanding the consequence. If he throws a toy then obviously the toy is not important to him so take it away, etc.

One of my children had hour long temper tantrums about 10 times when she was 2. I realized that I was losing my temper and put her in her room until she and I calmed down.

Get the medical tests done, but if there is nothing medical than you need to come up with consequences before the behaviour happens.

:hug: and good luck.

[DemExpat]

13. My second child, my son, was like this from the day

he had to go to school until he graduated from highschool and got a full-time job doing something he loves to do.....

My husband and I were at wits end at times. Tom also refused to go to school once in awhile, and when he was often sick, he stretched it out shamelessly for days....

Now he is never sick, never lazy, never anti-social (to US! :-)), and is a happy, healthy, hard-working young man. Who would have thought after all those years of worry? (relatively speaking, of course)

My daughter was never any trouble growing up, an eager and excellent student, lots of friends, etc. but when she turned 17, 18 her whole personality went through a metamorphosis and now we are worried about HER lack of incentive and goals.

You just never know how a child will 'turn out' until they pass through puberty!

Hang in there, get him tested, but don't overdo it with trying to find a medical reason - it really could be unhappiness with school,(or something else) or something in his character that he needs to work through. But that doesn't mean you have to put up with aggression, of course.

I really empathize with your situation - it can be so tough trying to do right with our kids when they are not doing well....

DemEx

[Nlighten1]

14. Here you go.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0201441934/104-7177513-2186346?v=glance

[KCDem]

15. kids can kick hard when they want to.

My oldest is only 4, but she recently fought the good fight to get out of a flu shot. She lost, but it was close. I have lots of empathy for you and hope that they can diagnose his problem.

I'm rather low on sanity vibes, but here are a few:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[proud patriot]

16. You and I have alot in common

My son was misdiagnosed with ADHD in kindegarten .
first grade was me fighting tooth and nail to get him off the
meds and into Special ed .
Now in Second grade he goes to a special ed school with
8 kids in the class and 2 teachers .

My son has done all the things you listed , short
of me bleeding . God gives us what we can handle
even if it seems like it's too much .

I know what wits end looks and feels like .
I go through similar struggles .
I'm here if you ever want to pm me .

I know the things you won't tell anyone .
I also find it tremendously couragous of you
to expose yourself this way.

my best
proud patriot

[jobycom]

17. Be very wary of too much doctoring

For several reasons. One, doctors are just guessing, too. Even when they can show you tests that demonstrate something chemically or physically wrong, they are just guessing that they have found a cause and not a symptom. Second, if a doctor gives him an excuse, he may assume he's supposed to be like that. Third, they may give him some medication that will make the problem hide for a while without actually finding the cause of it. Of course, they may actually discover something, so don't take this advice too far, but trust yourself more than them. I've seen way too many parents-- my own included-- who put too much faith in doctors.

My four year old becomes a terror sometimes, for months at a time. Earlier this year she was out of control. She was fighting at her daycare, biting kids, drawing blood, kicking babies, etc. When she got home she would do it to my 10 year old, even to her mom. Not often to me, though. That's what convinced me she wasn't totally out of control, as a medical condition might indicate.

We--mostly I, since she wouldn't listen to mother-- put her in timeout a lot, but she spent hours in timeout and it never affected her. And as you know, when kid's in timeout, parent is, too, if the kid won't stay in timeout. I had to sit and watch her the whole time. So I started trying other things. I started taking away her toys, until she literally had none left. I would send her to her room, but she didn't care.

The one thing I kept doing, though, is talking to her. I asked her why she was fighting, why she was being bad, why she was trying to hurt people. I would ask sincerely, btw, not rhetorically, and I would respond to her answers. Firm, but attentive and sympathetic. And I would give her advice. She literally told me that she had bad things in her head making her do these things.

After a few months it paid off. She gradually stopped fighting. I would help her along by rewarding her daily for not getting in trouble-- not big rewards, just exagerated "Way to go"s and stuff like that. Now and then she still gets that way, but not for long.

I think there were several reasons. One, her favorite teacher had been fired amid a lot of tension at her daycare, and she hated that. Two, some of her friends had left (it was the beginning of a school year, so the older kids went to knew schools). Three, she is an incredible bright and talented kid, and she was at a stage where she wanted more input, more communication, more interaction with people, more stuff to learn and do, and she wasn't getting it. I think my conversations with her helped her there, because someone was helping her express herself. Frustration in learning and communication really drive kids crazy. And four, my wife and I don't get along, and the tension was starting to show, so my daughter was scared one of us would leave.

All in all, in short, she needed attention, didn't get it, and got out of hand, and we got her back by giving her attention but not rewarding the bad behavior. I think that last part is key. If the kid is trying to get attention by being bad, and is getting it, he will be encouraged to be worse. That's why when I punished her, I would wait a while and then begin giving her the attention she wanted. And I began giving it to her whenever she was good, and giving her better rewards for being good. It was still a drawn out process, because even putting a child in timeout sometimes makes the child feel noticed and appreciated, in a perverse way, and it gives the child the ability to control something, even if the control is negative. So when I punished Adrienne I was rewarding her, though I had to do it. I just made sure I rewarded her more for other things.

If your son is attacking doctors, he may be enjoying the attention. Is there anyone he listens to, or is afraid to attack? If so, he has some restraints, and the problem is probably emotional. If he's equally out of control with everyone and shows no real notice of who he is attacking or disobeying, then it might be medical, though I'd be really sure before I let a doctor start experimenting.

Hang in there, though. These things are very trying. Just don't lose your temper with him, and don't let him win at it. Although you have to let him win at other things to balance it out.

Sorry I talk so much. I'm that bad in person, too. :-)

On edit, one more thing. If he's refusing to go to school, and the doctor visits are taking him out of school, I'd be surprised if there wasn't something emotional happening because of school. Maybe nothing that would seem serious, but maybe he feels lost there, or misses his family, or maybe there is a teacher issue. Could be all of those things, combined with dislike of food and a classmate. But that seems to be a clue. Maybe he's figured that by being really bad he can miss more school.

[Timefortruth]

18. Have you tried holding him tight until he regains control?

Speak to him in a gentle voice, and tell him that you love him but he must control himself. Both parents must be absolutely consistent with discipline strategy, spirited children learn early how to divide and conquer. It is absolutely essential that he be rewarded for every victory however small, it is hard to remember to reward desirable behavior because he has at last not sucked more attention, but almost every creature works harder to earn a reward than avoid a punishment. The most important thing to remember is that some children require tons of parental attention and will get it no matter what, they will steal it if it isn’t given freely. Other children want to be left alone, I have one of each. The one that needs all the attention also gives more back, but it is hard.

There are also drugs that help, for you that is.

[blondeatlast]

20. Meds for me--got 'em. Celexa and an occasional Xanax.

[SOteric]

21. I wish I had anything more to offer you

than just my assurances that I will send karma your way.

:hi:

[bleedingheart]

22. First focus on the marriage!

My husband and I have lived through a lot of child related stress due to illness etc...

You need to have a date night if possible every other week or at least once a month. It doesn't even have to be at night...have someone come over in the morning and then go somewhere to take a walk, have lunch...decompress...

About your son...well leave that up to the experts. Did this start all of a sudden or gradually?